19:10:49 <mizmo> #startmeeting
19:10:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan 18 19:10:49 2011 UTC.  The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:10:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:10:57 <mizmo> #topic roll call
19:10:57 <fabsh_> oops.....
19:11:00 <mizmo> who is around?
19:11:02 <fabsh_> back
19:11:07 <fabsh_> :)
19:11:08 * msourada is Martin Sourada
19:11:21 <mizmo> i didnt send out a meeting reminder today so maybe we're missing folks we'd normally have
19:11:22 <fabsh_> fabsh_ is fabsh ;)
19:11:31 <finalzone> *me, Luya Tshimbalanga, is waving
19:11:48 * t2hot is Onyeibo oku
19:12:27 <t2hot> I got 1700UTC on my mail mizmo ... a typo I suppose
19:12:33 <mizmo> Emichan, around?
19:12:38 <mizmo> t2hot, sorry about that
19:12:40 <mizmo> it's usually 1900 utc
19:12:55 <mizmo> sometimes in my head for some reason i think 1700, because 1900 = 700 in 12-hour time
19:13:13 <Emichan> i'm here now
19:13:16 <msourada> hehe
19:13:18 <t2hot> ok
19:13:50 * t2hot is humbled by Emichan's Steampunk Wings
19:14:43 <fabsh> i had no time to work on any wallpapers :(
19:14:51 <mizmo> omgilove nightingale
19:14:56 <Emichan> I managed to get two of them, but it was last min as predicted!
19:15:01 <fabsh> come to think of it i don't have much time for anything right now
19:15:08 <mizmo> okay we really only have one topic today and that's the f15 artwork
19:15:14 <mizmo> #topic Fedora 15 Artwork
19:15:22 <mizmo> okay so the proposals we have are
19:15:27 <msourada> steampunk wings kinda remind me of Japanese flag... (not a bad thing ;)
19:15:34 <mizmo> #idea Gaia Particles by Onyeibo Oku
19:15:48 <mizmo> #idea Jetlag by Jared Smith
19:15:57 <mizmo> #idea Nightingale by Emily Dirsh
19:16:05 <mizmo> #idea Steampunk wings by Emily Dirsh
19:16:39 <mizmo> how are folks thinking about these proposals?
19:16:53 <fabsh> do we have links?
19:17:02 * msourada likes Gaia Particles and  Steampunk
19:17:12 <msourada> fabsh: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork_Wallpaper_Submissions
19:17:19 <mizmo> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork_Wallpaper_Submissions
19:17:23 <mizmo> fabsh, ^^ the imagesarethere
19:17:33 <fabsh> oh sorry. shouldve used my brain
19:17:44 <mizmo> i like nightingale #1 and gaia particles #2
19:18:05 <mizmo> one consideration i'm including is how easily we might be able to imprint on the gnome3 stripes wallpaper
19:18:21 <mizmo> for nightingale we could put one or both of the birds in a corner on top of the stripes to tie it in with the rest
19:18:25 <mizmo> gaia particles the same
19:18:29 <mizmo> with the particles
19:18:30 * msourada thinks the stripes would work very well with gaia part.
19:18:56 <fabsh> i am totally for nightingale for what it's worth
19:19:35 <mizmo> i did a couple of gaia sketches, one sec ill upload them
19:20:01 <msourada> come to think of it, the nightingale idea is really appealing to me
19:20:35 <mizmo> so this is a sketch i did of some vines http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/f15-sketches-gaia/vines-transparent.png
19:20:40 <mizmo> with the idea it could be superimposed on the strpies
19:20:57 <mizmo> this is one where they are vector rather than detailed/painted http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/f15-sketches-gaia/wallpaper_stripes-vector-vines.png
19:21:08 <mizmo> that being said i think nightingale is really the strongest
19:21:15 <mizmo> it's got the connection to nature AND it has steampunk
19:21:41 <fabsh> sorry for not taking part btw, i'm way to busy lately :(
19:21:58 * finalzone : steampunk is back with vengeance
19:21:59 <mizmo> it's no worries fabsh, you're taking part by being here now
19:22:03 <mizmo> lol finalzone
19:22:16 <msourada> we're back in steampunk mood again? /me nostalgically reminiscences about gears
19:22:20 <mizmo> is anybody opposed to going with the nightingale concept? it seems like we all support it
19:22:30 <fabsh> well, i really want to come up with a wallpaper effeort at some point though
19:23:19 <mizmo> it's allgood
19:23:36 <mizmo> we're also just at the concept stage so whichever concept we pick, there will be a lot of work yet putting together everything
19:24:18 <mizmo> so i'm proposing we go with nightingale, i don't see any opposition and it seems like everyone here supports it. anyone want to second this?
19:24:34 <msourada> we should also add note to the wiki that concept submission is closed (and mark the nightingale as winning concept)
19:24:52 <mizmo> cool i will do that now
19:24:55 <fabsh> +1
19:25:07 <fabsh> nightingale rocks
19:25:42 <msourada> the winning concept is supposed to go there: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork/Development#Winning_Concept
19:26:47 <mizmo> Emichan, stunning work
19:27:00 <Emichan> thanks all! yay! :D
19:27:06 <fabsh> :)
19:27:43 <msourada> I just updated the schedule page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork/Schedule#Default_Wallpaper
19:28:04 <Emichan> plus birds are a love symbol, so there's a double meaning - it's got layers!
19:28:14 <mizmo> oh my goodness yes
19:28:20 <mizmo> i didnt even think of that
19:28:23 <mizmo> <3++
19:28:41 <msourada> looking at the dates, we have fourteen days for working on the concept for alpha wallpaper
19:28:51 <Emichan> is that all?
19:29:05 <mizmo> Okay I updated the main F15 Artwork page, and the development page, and the concept submission pages
19:29:10 <mizmo> ouch
19:29:12 <mizmo> that's not a very long time
19:29:37 <mizmo> #agreed Emichan's Nightingale proposal will be the official Fedora 15 artwork theme
19:30:10 <Emichan> gimme two shakes and I'll upload the source file
19:30:35 <mizmo> lol
19:30:39 <msourada> mizmo: package is supposed to be done by 7th February so there's also one more week for minor update, but I need something to work with by 1st February to make and submit the package
19:30:52 <mizmo> ah okay
19:30:59 <mizmo> well maybe we can do a session at fudcon
19:31:02 <mizmo> which is over by 1 feb
19:31:06 <msourada> nice
19:31:22 <msourada> it aligns wonderfully with our schedule!
19:31:31 <mizmo> #idea have a Fedora 15 Nightingale design-hackfest at FUDcon to prep for Feb 1 due date
19:31:39 <Emichan> mizmo - seconded!
19:31:39 <mizmo> and it's just wallpaper for the alpha right? no splashes yet?
19:31:46 <fabsh> if we can get it done by then :)
19:32:03 <msourada> yup, just wallpaper for alpha
19:32:05 <mizmo> #info Deadine for Alpha wallpaper is February 1, 2011
19:32:17 <mizmo> #info Deadline for packaging alpha wallpaper is February 7, 2011
19:32:33 <mizmo> #info FUDcon Tempe is January 29-31
19:32:39 <msourada> we have banners and splashes scheduled for beta, sometime in march
19:32:44 <mizmo> we'll make it a hackfest i think
19:32:53 <mizmo> let me add it to the wiki for tempe now
19:34:57 <mizmo> okay it's added to the tempe hackfest session list
19:35:15 <mizmo> okay do we wanna talk about the gnome 3 wallpaper
19:35:47 <mizmo> the general approach i'd like to propose is developing the full suite of materials using the Nightingale theme, then providing a version of the GNOME 3 stripes with accents from the nightingale theme
19:36:00 <mizmo> just a bit of a splash so it coordinates
19:36:08 <mizmo> does this sound reasonable?
19:36:36 <Emichan> mizmo, I think that's a very reasonable compromise :)
19:36:39 <fabsh> that sounds neat
19:36:46 <msourada> +1
19:36:54 <mizmo> okay cool
19:36:59 <mizmo> hopefully the gnome team will agree :)
19:37:13 <mizmo> let's sync up with them when we have some mockups together
19:37:22 * finalzone is thinking about using both wallpapers transitions similar to day to night version we have on F14
19:37:26 <mizmo> maybe at fudcon or a little after
19:37:46 <mizmo> ah i always forget about the transitions
19:38:10 <mizmo> the transitions span over time though
19:38:24 <mizmo> i wonder how well they would end up going say if they were both at 50%
19:38:27 <mizmo> we could explore that toothough
19:38:45 <mizmo> i think maybe stripes accented with nightingale is a good base approach though if that doesn't work out
19:39:09 <mizmo> it might be nice to have a transition version of nightingale alone too.... especially if they're in an outdoors scene, that could look really slick
19:39:44 <msourada> I think maybe stripes combined with nightingale can work for whole fedora -- to stay consistent within the f15 release as much as possible
19:40:05 <finalzone> a lot of possibility that needs to be explored
19:40:21 <mizmo> maybe have a splash of stripes in nightingale, and a splash of nightingale in stripes?
19:40:30 <mizmo> or keep stripes as-is and work the stripes into everything nightingale?
19:40:52 <mizmo> #idea proposal #1: design a full suite of nightingale-themed artwork, and also a version of stripes with nightingale accents to tie it in
19:41:07 <mizmo> #idea proposal #2: have a day-night transition wallpaper that transitions between nightingale wallpaper and stripes
19:41:20 <mizmo> #idea proposal #3: have a splash of nightingale in stripes, have a splash of stripes in nightingale
19:41:35 <mizmo> #idea proposal #4: keep stripes as-is, have a splash of stripes in everything nightingale
19:41:40 <mizmo> finalzone, lol ^^ yep
19:42:04 <mizmo> oh
19:42:13 <mizmo> one idea i just had, we've never done it before but
19:42:22 <finalzone> listening
19:42:25 <mizmo> #idea have 3-4 variations on the nightingale wallpaper that users can pick between
19:42:33 <mizmo> sort of like a 'family' of wallpapers
19:42:36 <msourada> idea: emboss nightingale onto the stripes.
19:42:37 <mizmo> that all coordinate
19:42:45 <mizmo> #idea: emboss nightingale onto the stripes.
19:43:15 <finalzone> another idea is transition between wallpapers set for every 15 min
19:43:18 <mizmo> we should maybe look for examples of how the two elements could be combined
19:43:24 <mizmo> #idea transition between wallpapers set for every 15 min
19:43:50 <mizmo> Emichan, can you tell us a bit more about the layout of the mockup image you put together?
19:44:00 <mizmo> it looks like you've got a bird wing doubling as leaves on the tree
19:44:10 <mizmo> and it looks like some of the tree branches almost evolve into wires
19:44:12 <Emichan> yes, that's true, a little visual pun
19:44:28 <Emichan> the tree branches are more laziness on my part ;)
19:44:35 <mizmo> can you tell us about 'Emperor and the Nightingale' - i'm not familiar with it
19:44:45 <mizmo> Emichan, i really like the effect though even if it wasn't intentional
19:44:47 <Emichan> I also included a little ray detail in the lower left corner
19:44:58 <Emichan> which could evolve into stripes ?
19:45:23 <Emichan> the emperor and the nightingale is a fairytale by H.C.Anderson
19:45:27 <msourada> it's classical fairy tail, I don't remember the summary though :D But main idea centers about mechanical nightingale used instead of real nightingale...
19:45:47 <Emichan> about an emperor who is sung to by a (real) nightingale
19:46:11 <Emichan> then some clever people construct an artificial nightingale and present it to the emperor
19:46:20 <Emichan> whereupon the real nightingale flies away
19:46:34 <Emichan> um, hold on, memory failure
19:46:58 <Emichan> then at some point the emperor is ill and dying
19:47:10 <Emichan> and the real nightingale comes back to him and saves him from Death
19:47:25 <mizmo> #info  the emperor and the nightingale is a fairytale by H.C. Anderson
19:47:42 <msourada> wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightingale
19:47:44 <Emichan> the moral is something about caging animals or not being able to capture true beauty
19:47:50 <Emichan> that sort of thing
19:47:59 <fabsh> robots are evil?
19:48:13 <Emichan> clockwork nightingales won't save your life?
19:48:20 <fabsh> lol
19:48:30 <mizmo> #link wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nightingale
19:48:40 <mizmo> #info  the moral is something about caging animals or not being able to capture true beauty
19:48:41 <msourada> fabsh: nope, it wasn't robot, just a mechanical singing machine
19:49:00 <mizmo> maybe don't forget about nature, it's powerful
19:49:05 <Emichan> there was a rumor that the story was an allegory for anderson's love for Jenny Lind, a singer.
19:49:40 <heffer> mizmo: regarding the beauty of nature: could you ping me at the end of the meeting? :) i have some news on my picture of that wild fox
19:49:49 <mizmo> heffer, sweet sounds good
19:49:53 <Emichan> #link http://hca.gilead.org.il/nighting.html - here's the story in full
19:50:29 <fabsh> msourada: singing robot? :D
19:50:38 <fabsh> Emichan: gilead.org?
19:50:46 <fabsh> as in Gilead the kingdom :D
19:51:10 <mizmo> Strangely enough, the nightingale story became a reality for Jenny Lind in 1848-1849, when she fell in love with the Polish composer Fryderyk Chopin (1810-1849). His letters reveal that he felt "better" when she sang for him, and Jenny Lind arranged a concert in London to raise funds for a tuberculosis hospital. With the knowledge of Queen Victoria, Jenny Lind attempted unsuccessfully to marry Chopin in Paris in May 1849. Soon afte
19:51:10 <mizmo> r, she had to flee the cholera epidemic, but returned to Paris shortly before he died of tuberculosis on 17 October 1849.
19:51:12 <msourada> fabsh: nice idea. But I think robots need to have some sort of AI to deserve being called robots :-D
19:51:23 <fabsh> msourada: steampunk ai? :P
19:51:27 <Emichan> fabsh: ?? it was the first google result
19:51:35 <mizmo> i love the layers in this concept
19:51:48 <fabsh> Emichan: its from The Dark Tower by Stephen King
19:51:56 <msourada> fabsh: ;D
19:51:59 <fabsh> mizmo +1
19:52:54 <msourada> fabsh: besides, the story is older than the word 'robot' itself ;-)
19:52:59 <Emichan> fabsh: ah, I haven't read it :(
19:53:06 * mizmo neither
19:53:17 <fabsh> you should
19:53:20 <fabsh> great story
19:53:27 <fabsh> anyway, love the concept :D
19:53:31 <mizmo> i haven't readany stephen king but a lot of his books have been highly recommended to me
19:53:33 <Emichan> I've read the comic actually, but it's been awhile, so I don't remember names and such
19:53:57 <fabsh> Emichan: roland of gilead should ring a bell then ;)
19:54:13 <mizmo> should we maybe try to walk through some ideas for developing the nightingale art further?
19:54:21 <fabsh> mizmo: the dark tower isnt horror at all, i dont really like horror
19:54:29 <fabsh> mizmo: +1
19:54:34 <mizmo> fabsh, i'd probably like that one then, i dont deal so well with horror :)
19:54:49 <mizmo> when i played heavy rain i had to have ray do some of the more horror parts :)
19:54:53 <mizmo> http://www.gamingheaven.com/gamingreviewimages/littlebigplanet/pictures/LittleBigPlanet_Screenshot_67.jpg
19:55:03 <mizmo> this is just one idea
19:55:13 <mizmo> if we took that kind of paper-cut-out approach like Little Big Planet's artwork has
19:55:25 <fabsh> i love lbp!
19:55:26 <mizmo> we could use various kinds of stripes as some of the textures
19:55:30 <Emichan> mizmo i love that idea
19:55:30 <fabsh> the visual style is ace
19:55:58 <mizmo> lemme change topic to make the tags easier to read later
19:56:03 <mizmo> #topic Developing Nightingale further
19:56:16 <mizmo> #idea if we took that kind of paper-cut-out approach like Little Big Planet's artwork has we could use various kinds of stripes as some of the textures
19:56:20 <mizmo> #link http://www.gamingheaven.com/gamingreviewimages/littlebigplanet/pictures/LittleBigPlanet_Screenshot_67.jpg
19:56:34 <Emichan> we could knit the tree ;)
19:56:42 <mizmo> oooh hehe
19:56:53 <mizmo> like sackboy maybe, burlap? http://www.whatsthatgamecalled.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/littlebigplanet_2.jpg
19:57:26 <Emichan> burlap and felt and stickers!
19:57:37 <mizmo> having little paper cutout style art is kind of linking the natural to the electronic in a way too... you can't really do paper cut outs with a computer you can only simulate them
19:58:11 <mizmo> a few challenges here:
19:58:44 <mizmo> #info challenge #1 avoiding too high frequency / too high contrast imagery... the wallpaper version needs to work well as a non-distracting background
19:58:50 <mizmo> (a challenge every release of course :) )
19:59:44 <mizmo> #info challenge #2 an artwork style that can also be used as a graceful accent on other pieces so we can try some of the gnome 3 integration wallpaper ideas we talked abotu
19:59:55 <mizmo> that's about it
19:59:59 <mizmo> that i can think of
20:00:18 <mizmo> we want a nice depth to the image, some soft focus
20:02:17 <mizmo> maybe an abstract pattern with the wings/leaves could help with that
20:03:25 <fabsh> sounds good :)
20:03:30 <mizmo> im looking for some imagery now that might be interesting references or inspiration
20:03:43 <msourada> IMHO, pattern can easily turn distractive
20:03:43 <mizmo> this one is called mechanical forest, it's an interesting watercolor: http://kenruzic.deviantart.com/art/Mechanical-Forest-55424922
20:04:04 <mizmo> definitely high frequency / distracting tho
20:04:30 <msourada> heh, reminds me of one episode of Futurama :D
20:04:45 <fabsh> lol
20:06:12 <mizmo> #idea maybe have the wallpaper drawn onto a stripe-textured 'paper'? like this http://thepianomasque.deviantart.com/art/The-Goddess-of-Nature-137832044
20:06:26 <Emichan> oo pretty
20:06:48 <msourada> beautiful
20:06:56 <Emichan> it's almost a corrugated look
20:07:10 <fabsh> nice
20:07:18 <fabsh> where  do you find that crap? :D
20:07:34 <mizmo> fabsh, deviantart.com :)
20:07:40 <mizmo> Emichan, exactly
20:07:45 <fabsh> lol
20:07:53 <fabsh> i mean the good stuff on da ;)
20:08:01 <fabsh> theres so much there....
20:08:09 <mizmo> Emichan, it could kind of devolve from the corrugated texture => the actual gnome stripes along the top and bottom edges
20:08:34 <Emichan> right, and it would reinforce the "cut out" look of it
20:08:40 <Emichan> corrugated = cardboard
20:09:34 <mizmo> for a different direction, it could be really stylized  - like http://lemex.deviantart.com/art/elevation-110966439
20:09:57 <mizmo> that person's back, kind of looks like digital wings coming out, that could devolve into stripes maybe
20:11:08 <msourada> stripes from wings? My imagination starts to fail to produce anything that would look good :D
20:11:39 <mizmo> well
20:11:55 <mizmo> if you had the mechanical bird sitting in the tree
20:12:05 <mizmo> with sort of an electrified glow behind him
20:12:15 <mizmo> with maybe electrical distortion wings coming out
20:12:27 <mizmo> i don't know lol i think it's hard to explain verbally!
20:12:33 <mizmo> i'll have to sketch something and send it out
20:12:35 <msourada> lol
20:13:23 <mizmo> this one is really neat
20:13:23 <mizmo> http://miatari.deviantart.com/art/OCEAN-WAVES-192896451
20:13:26 <mizmo> #link http://miatari.deviantart.com/art/OCEAN-WAVES-192896451
20:13:30 <mizmo> it looks like bird feathers
20:14:20 <msourada> yeah, sort of
20:14:53 <mizmo> for a totally different approach
20:15:19 <mizmo> we could do a photo manip landscape treatment http://mrheadbangerswe.deviantart.com/art/Lighthouse-2-0-192289253
20:16:00 <mizmo> do we want this to have a dark undertone to it?
20:16:05 <mizmo> like, oohh technology evil, beware
20:16:11 <mizmo> or do we want it to be pure / uplifting?
20:16:54 <fabsh> uplifting i'd say
20:16:55 <mizmo> this is an example of a dark / sci-fi kind of tone http://submicron.deviantart.com/art/Pier-51-Midnight-Aqua-190830673
20:16:59 <msourada> I think we would like more positive approach to technology vs. nature, like the mechanical and real nightingales almost kissing each other in the sketch
20:17:11 <mizmo> i think the lighthouse is more uplifting
20:17:14 <mizmo> msourada++
20:17:17 <mizmo> okay cool
20:17:33 <mizmo> maybe kind of emphasizing the positive aspects of technology
20:17:46 <msourada> yup
20:17:58 <Emichan> we're promoting technology, so it would be odd to try to portray it as evil...
20:18:18 <msourada> Emichan: would a nice troll though :D
20:19:37 <mizmo> i like this palette/texture (but it's not blue) http://wasimagined.deviantart.com/art/ZARIA-190133015
20:21:10 <msourada> looks like dawn a bit
20:21:21 <mizmo> http://stormmajki.deviantart.com/art/snow-187770321 evening?
20:21:27 <fabsh> that pallette is ace
20:21:32 <fabsh> the zaria one Oo
20:21:41 <mizmo> i like the rendering style of these http://half-left.deviantart.com/art/Born-179041418
20:22:21 <fabsh> thats beautiful
20:22:50 <mizmo> this is more of a playful / cartoony rendering style but similar palettes / focus http://pr09studio.deviantart.com/art/Serenity-186917526
20:24:51 * mizmo looking for stripes examples
20:30:02 <mizmo> well here's a stripe example but its very dark http://etcoman.deviantart.com/art/Striped-191683395
20:32:19 <mizmo> for the birds, maybe a painterly treatment http://apofiss.deviantart.com/art/inthebowl-186921491
20:32:46 <fabsh> hmmm
20:33:22 <Emichan> omg teh cute
20:34:02 <tatica> o/
20:34:04 * tatica really late
20:34:36 <tatica> reading backlog
20:35:57 <mizmo> it's all good tatica
20:36:04 * mizmo is looking thorugh someartworks for inspiration
20:36:41 <heffer> i uploaded the fox :) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork_Supplemental_Wallpapers_Submissions
20:36:53 <mizmo> kind of makes me think of a bird made of wires http://luminatii.deviantart.com/art/Bird-53325529
20:37:33 <mizmo> heffer, yay!!
20:37:52 <heffer> my girlfriend agreed to release it as CC-BY-SA
20:37:58 <mizmo> ooh paper bird http://ruth-tay.deviantart.com/art/Visual-Paper-bird-185670881
20:38:11 <mizmo> heffer, that's really nice of her, i'm glad she was okay with it
20:39:12 <tatica> sorry to interrupt
20:39:27 <tatica> so, final mockup to start work with is the one with the birds, right?
20:39:47 <tatica> then some interaction with the stripes (but not full stripes, so will be a collaborative work with the gnome group)
20:40:24 <tatica> and have that final mockup for feb-7
20:42:25 <msourada> tatica: feb-7 is for the final package that will be in alpha, the wallpaper needs to be done a bit sooner, feb-1 is the deadline
20:43:14 <msourada> tatica, but give how the packaging process works, there's some room to update the wallpaper between feb-1 and feb-7
20:43:26 <tatica> oki
20:43:49 <tatica> I can help mo at Tempe, there is enough time to work with the idea (I think)
20:44:09 <tatica> the idea that I had was to complex, so I didn't make it :\ sry
20:57:39 <mizmo> tatica, it's not a final mockup for feb 1, it's just for alpha wallpaper
20:57:44 <mizmo> there's still lots of time for the final design
21:01:10 <fabsh> is the meeting still going? :)
21:04:25 <fabsh> i must have missed the end :D
21:04:49 <wonderer> ups, me too :-(
21:12:43 <mizmo> oh woop
21:12:46 <mizmo> #endmeeting