19:00:42 <Schendje> #startmeeting
19:00:42 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 23 19:00:42 2010 UTC.  The chair is Schendje. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:42 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:54 <Schendje> #topic roll call
19:00:57 <Schendje> who's here? :)
19:01:00 <Schendje> someone, i hope :D
19:01:01 * nicubunu present
19:01:32 <nicubunu> only the two of us?
19:01:39 <Schendje> nicubunu: yep just us i guess :)
19:01:42 <Schendje> cozy ;)
19:01:55 <nicubunu> maybe we shall wait a bit?
19:02:14 <Schendje> hmm let's give it 5 minutes or so?
19:02:23 <Schendje> and otherwise i can just go over the topics (the few that we have)
19:02:24 <Schendje> and log it
19:03:28 <nicubunu> what topics we have besides the fudcon t-shirt?
19:03:47 <Schendje> we should probably schedule something for the F15 wallpaper
19:03:52 <Schendje> send a mail to the list, i think
19:03:58 <Schendje> to get together on a date and brainstorm for ideas?
19:04:13 <Schendje> concept submissions are due for... january 18th
19:04:17 <nicubunu> we don't have the date in the schedule?
19:04:29 <Schendje> so that's still a looooong time but nothing wrong with starting early
19:04:35 <nicubunu> i think we should make noise about brainstorming for ideas
19:04:39 <Schendje> nicubunu: not one for a brainstorm session
19:04:47 <nicubunu> mailing list + blogs
19:04:50 <Schendje> nicubunu: what did you have in mind? you mean (micro)blogging?
19:05:02 <nicubunu> planet
19:05:09 <Schendje> we can try to set a date with a couple of the design team members
19:05:18 <Schendje> and then blog it to get more people in?
19:05:31 <nicubunu> and the list... maybe not everyone is realising we are at the start of a new cycle?
19:05:42 <nicubunu> awake the people in the team
19:05:45 <Schendje> yeah i mean setting a date on the list
19:06:57 <Schendje> hi Emichan :)
19:07:05 <Emichan> hi Schedje :)
19:07:17 <nicubunu> yay... the meeting presence grew at 150%
19:07:26 <Schendje> nicubunu: :D
19:07:36 <Schendje> nicubunu: getting crowded in here! :|
19:07:55 <nicubunu> we are focusing on quality, not quantity
19:07:56 <Emichan> I missed the last two weeks :( stoopid time change
19:08:08 <Schendje> Emichan: yeah, tell me about it
19:08:26 <Schendje> ok so
19:08:28 <nicubunu> Emichan: would you like better the old time spot?
19:09:00 <Emichan> nicubunu: not necessarily, it's about the same for me - I just keep forgetting that the time actually *changed*
19:09:18 <Schendje> #topic F15 wallpaper
19:09:36 <nicubunu> we don't have any concept yet, right?
19:09:42 <Schendje> nope
19:09:46 <Emichan> when is the deadline for concept submissions?
19:09:53 <Schendje> #info deadline for concept submission is january 18th
19:10:02 <Emichan> plenty o time :)
19:10:11 <Schendje> so a long time still, but as i said nothing wrong with starting early :)
19:10:14 <finalzone> hello all. Has the meeting begun?
19:10:18 <Schendje> hi finalzone!
19:10:23 <nicubunu> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F15_Artwork/Schedule
19:10:29 <Emichan> hi finalzone we're talking about f15 wallpaper
19:10:39 <finalzone> ok
19:10:42 <Schendje> so during the last meeting someone brought up the idea of diong a sketching session
19:10:55 <Schendje> arranging a date and time and just start brainstorming and sketching and bouncing ideas around
19:10:59 <Schendje> which i think sounds cool
19:11:23 <Schendje> who here would like to join in?
19:11:32 <Emichan> me! me ooo me!
19:11:43 <Schendje> i thought we could send a mail to the list asking the team members
19:11:48 <nicubunu> that depends on the time of day ane day of the week
19:12:00 <Emichan> we can use whenisgood
19:12:02 <Schendje> and as nicubunu pointed out we should (micro)blog the hell out of it and get others in as well
19:12:12 <Schendje> Emichan: yeah i think that's a good idea probably
19:12:12 <nicubunu> we should use the pool to find an optimal date and time
19:12:30 <Schendje> and it doesn't have to be one session of course, we can have multiple
19:12:32 <nicubunu> Emichan +1
19:12:39 <Schendje> i doubt we'll decide on a wallpaper in one meeting ;)
19:13:21 <finalzone> unless someone choose to do wallpaper slideshow
19:13:29 <nicubunu> we need to find the metaphor
19:13:36 <Emichan> i think for this codename it'll be a challenge to come up with a concept that's not insipid or cliche
19:14:16 <Schendje> i love challenges ;)
19:14:19 <Schendje> :P
19:14:23 <nicubunu> we can make fun of ourselves and an ironic, over the top concept
19:14:30 <Schendje> nicubunu: lol i love that
19:14:33 <Emichan> hearts and locks everywhere!
19:14:43 <Schendje> blue is out, bring in the pink!
19:14:46 <finalzone> making abstract concept maybe?
19:14:46 <nicubunu> Emichan: saw mizmo's idea about continents?
19:15:02 <Schendje> Emichan: it's in here somewhere: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-design/2010-11-16/fedora-design.2010-11-16-19.02.log.html
19:15:24 <Schendje> ok so does that sound like a good idea to everyone?
19:15:38 <Schendje> schedule a session to start with, and invite others to join in?
19:15:57 <Schendje> i can send it a mail to the list to kick it off
19:16:03 <Emichan> nicubunu: I saw it - it's interesting, but i'd personally like to explore and see what more we can come up with :)
19:16:13 <nicubunu> sure
19:16:32 <nicubunu> the deadline seems so faaaaar away...
19:16:41 <Schendje> it does, doesn't it?
19:16:55 <Schendje> after that it's quite a bit faster i think
19:17:02 <Schendje> alpha wallpapers feb 1
19:17:15 <Schendje> beta wallpapers a month after, march 15
19:17:26 <Schendje> ok so
19:17:33 <Emichan> yeah, that's not a lot of time once we've got a concept, so the earlier we can decide on a concept the better!
19:18:10 <Schendje> #info We'll schedule a time and date for a brainstorm/sketching session to come up with some awesome wallpaper concepts
19:18:25 <nicubunu> we need someone breaking the ice and putting concepts on the wiki
19:18:30 <Schendje> #info And invite people from the community to join in
19:18:38 <Schendje> nicubunu: we can do that afterwards, right?
19:18:42 <Schendje> just start with putting sketches up
19:18:43 <nicubunu> just to challenge the others
19:18:51 <Schendje> once we have a few
19:19:05 <Emichan> has anyone heard what is going to be drawing the desktop background in gnome 3? i think they're removing that functionality from nautilus.
19:19:29 <Schendje> Emichan: errr i have no idea tbh :)
19:19:36 <nicubunu> gnome 3 scares me as hell, too much change
19:19:49 <finalzone> really?
19:19:52 <Schendje> it's gonna be a shock for sure :)
19:19:55 <Schendje> probably a good shock though
19:20:06 <nicubunu> i think i will continue to use the panel
19:20:15 <Emichan> if they're using something else to draw the desktop bg, we may have more/better? options for the kinds of bg we can do
19:20:23 <Schendje> Emichan: how do you mean?
19:20:52 <nicubunu> the desktop in just an image... i think it will affect icons and such
19:21:04 <Emichan> just speculation - maybe animations - i have no idea, just think it's something we should look into
19:21:36 <nicubunu> i don't think we want a background image moving continuously
19:22:11 <Schendje> if there's new technical possibilities though it could be fun to explore
19:22:17 <Schendje> like we did the slideshow wallpaper this time
19:22:31 <Schendje> which... didn't fit in because of the size i think, but still
19:22:40 <nicubunu> we had slideshows in the past
19:22:52 <Emichan> exactly, it may just give us some possibilities to explore
19:23:08 <Schendje> ok
19:23:12 <Schendje> shall we move on to the next topic?
19:23:21 <Emichan> btw, here's the nautilus mailing list where they're talking about dropping the desktop support http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2010-September/msg00008.html
19:23:21 * finalzone nods
19:23:32 <nicubunu> then will someone ping the desktop people asking about what changes to expect?
19:23:36 <Schendje> oh, thanks Emichan
19:23:57 <Schendje> #link http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2010-September/msg00008.html -> nautilus mailing list talking about dropping the desktop support
19:24:24 <Schendje> Emichan: do you think you could find out more, or will it be some time before that's clearer?
19:25:18 <Emichan> I'm only tangentially following this stuff - I could send a message to the nautilus ml
19:25:23 <nicubunu> i read it... is only about icons and files stored on the desktop
19:25:57 <Schendje> hmm ok
19:26:17 * finalzone mini-rants: missed gdmsetup. Oversimplify can kill user experience. -end mini-rants
19:26:20 <Emichan> nicubunu: but that also may mean losing the wallpaper handling from nautilus as well
19:26:39 <nicubunu> finalzone +1
19:26:47 <Emichan> i think this is something we should talk to the desktop people about
19:27:18 <nicubunu> if they do what is said in that mailing list and disable storing files on the desktop... i am absolutely going to Xfce instead
19:28:03 <Schendje> ok i think we're drifting offtopic now ;)
19:28:08 <Schendje> let's move on to the next oen
19:28:13 <Schendje> one, sorry
19:28:22 <Schendje> #topic FUDCon Tempe T-shirt
19:28:29 <Schendje> so, Daniel was working on this
19:29:02 <Schendje> but he couldn't find the time to continue http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2010-November/003665.html
19:29:23 <Schendje> so i think it's best if we just open this up to anyone willing on the mailing list?
19:29:32 <Schendje> i know the fudcon team has been waiting for a while now
19:29:40 <Schendje> and i'd like to speed it up a little
19:29:40 <Emichan> do we not have time to reopen it as a bounty?
19:29:54 <Schendje> Emichan: well i'm not sure...
19:29:55 <Schendje> it could be done
19:30:00 <Schendje> but still, it's kind of a huge task
19:30:30 <Schendje> which is why i'm not sure it should be a bounty in the first place? I mean, it's quite a bit more important and high profile than the other bounties we've had
19:31:07 <Schendje> of course it's great if we have someone new who can commit to it, but it does require a lot of time
19:31:08 <nicubunu> i think the task was too much for a bounty targeted at a newcomer
19:31:18 <Schendje> although we already had a t-shirt before, just not for FUDCon
19:31:25 <nicubunu> is not huge, but you need a lot of insight
19:31:39 <Schendje> nicubunu: i think we're also very critical because it's fudcon and all
19:31:45 <Schendje> it'll be worn by over a hundred people probably
19:31:46 <Emichan> we had the summer coding tshirt already
19:31:58 <Emichan> what's the deadline for the fudcon shirt?
19:32:15 <Schendje> hmm dunno, i'll look it up...
19:32:33 <Schendje> design team ticket: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/163
19:32:44 <Schendje> fudcon-planning ticket: https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/70
19:33:16 <Schendje> hmm it doesn't really say
19:33:27 <Emichan> so we've got about another 3-4 weeks based on ticket 163
19:34:11 <Schendje> ah, yeah, you're right
19:35:13 <Schendje> hmm personally i think it'd take too long if we reopen it as a bounty
19:35:21 <Schendje> if we work on it with the team it'll be much faster
19:35:24 <Emichan> well, if we're not going to reopen the bounty, I can give it a shot
19:35:40 <Schendje> oh that'd be great!
19:35:45 <Schendje> just shoot something to the mailing list :)
19:35:50 <nicubunu> Emichan +1, go for it
19:35:53 <Emichan> I'll go ahead and claim the ticket too :)
19:35:59 <Schendje> Emichan: awesome!
19:36:25 <Schendje> #info Emichan will claim the Tempe t-shirt ticket and give it a shot
19:36:42 <Emichan> I'll be gone all the rest of the week for thxgiving, but that'll just give me time to work on it - hopefully I'll have something by next weeks meeting.
19:36:53 <Schendje> Emichan: sounds good
19:37:18 <Schendje> i'll be around here and on the list so just let me know if you've got something
19:37:28 <Schendje> well those are the two topics i wanted to talk about
19:37:34 <Schendje> shall we have an open floor know?
19:37:42 <Schendje> there's also the thing about the meeting time
19:37:54 <Schendje> whether it should be pushed forward or not
19:38:31 <Schendje> most of the respones i've seen are just saying "Meh, it's fine" though :D
19:38:49 <Schendje> there were a few on the mailing list that said it may be better for them if it were pushed ahead an hour, i think?
19:39:02 <Emichan> I'm okay either way, so whatever is easiest for everyone else...
19:39:15 <Schendje> yeah me too
19:39:21 <Schendje> ok let's leave that open for now
19:39:35 <Schendje> #topic Open Floorrrrr
19:39:55 <Schendje> anything you guys still want to talk about? :)
19:40:22 <Schendje> i think it'll be good to work on the shirt with the team
19:40:25 <Emichan> speaking of gnome3 in f15, are we going to try to do a customized gnome-shell theme for f15?
19:40:27 <nicubunu> me not
19:40:29 <Schendje> since it's pretty quiet right now
19:41:02 <Schendje> Emichan: good one
19:41:07 <nicubunu> well... would the desktop team take a custom theme made by us as default?
19:41:09 <Emichan> gnome-shell theming is all done in css, so it shouldn't be too hard to put one together
19:41:09 <Schendje> so how is the theme in fedora different from the one in stock gnome?
19:41:28 <Schendje> does "regular" gnome also use clearlooks?
19:41:40 * Schendje has never tried out vanilla gnome
19:41:54 <nicubunu> in the past they got the other way, rejecting all customization made by us
19:42:20 <Schendje> i think it may be good to customize a colors a bit, but leave it at that?
19:42:26 <Schendje> so what Emichan said about the css
19:42:37 <Schendje> that's easily done and can give a nice touch
19:42:42 <nicubunu> will they go with a dark theme?
19:42:49 <Schendje> nicubunu: as the default, you mean?
19:42:56 <Schendje> i haven't seen a dark theme for gnome 3.0 yet...
19:42:57 <nicubunu> i mean, the gnome upstream
19:43:03 <Schendje> only the default light one
19:43:18 <nicubunu> huh? what i saw from gnome shell is dark
19:43:25 <Schendje> oh the shell is
19:43:34 <Schendje> but the theme isn't, i think?
19:44:14 <Schendje> http://gitorious.org/gnome-design/gnome-design/blobs/master/mockups/theming/widget-factory.png
19:44:17 <nicubunu> the windows are dark gray = is a dark theme
19:44:18 <Schendje> i'm not sure what they're up to with that
19:44:41 <Schendje> i thought something about a theme landed in gnome-shell recently...
19:44:45 <Emichan> well there's the gnome-shell theme, then there's the mutter theme
19:44:49 <Emichan> the gnome-shell theme is dark
19:44:53 <nicubunu> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=1126
19:45:04 <Emichan> the mutter theme is light/med gray
19:45:22 <nicubunu> jimmac may shed a light here
19:46:26 <Emichan> here's what the latest build of master gnome-shell looks like on my desktop: http://emichan.fedorapeople.org/Screenshot.png
19:46:41 <Schendje> oh cool
19:46:48 <Schendje> i should really try it out again...
19:47:03 <Emichan> very dark, pretty plain..
19:47:08 <Emichan> kind of a blank slate :)
19:47:14 <finalzone> boring too
19:47:18 <Schendje> well we can at least give a Fedora theme a shot, right? :)
19:47:29 <Schendje> even if it's unofficial or anything
19:47:39 <Emichan> if desktop team won't accept it, can we package it ourselves as an alternative?
19:47:43 <Schendje> one that uses the fedora colors
19:47:53 <finalzone> I think we can
19:47:58 <nicubunu> sure, we can even make it the default on our own spin
19:48:32 * finalzone uses nodoka theme rather than the default
19:48:42 <Schendje> finalzone: for gnome-shell?
19:48:59 <Schendje> no that's gtk right?
19:49:05 <finalzone> yes it is
19:49:17 <finalzone> I dont know if there is nodoka for gnome-shell
19:49:31 <Schendje> finalzone: you could make one :D
19:49:41 <Schendje> use Emichan's awesome refresh theme extension
19:49:44 <Emichan> well, nodoka is a gtk theme, right?
19:49:50 <jimmac> there will be a dark variant of the widget theme for 3.0
19:50:00 <finalzone> Emichan: yes
19:50:04 <jimmac> for fullscreen/media apps
19:50:06 <Emichan> thanks for the plug Schendje :)
19:50:15 <Schendje> Emichan: subtle huh? ;)
19:50:22 <Emichan> we could port it to shell toolkit i suppose :)
19:50:29 <Schendje> oh, cool jimmac
19:50:47 <finalzone> Schendje: where is refresh theme extension?
19:51:04 <Emichan> finalzone: I'll reupload it and post a link - give me a sec
19:54:38 <Emichan> #link http://emichan.fedorapeople.org/Theme_Reloader_GS_Ext.tar.bz2 -> Gnome shell theme reload extension
19:55:27 <finalzone> got it. Thanks Emichan
19:56:25 <Emichan> know how to install it?
19:56:36 <finalzone> no. how?
19:57:09 <Emichan> make sure gnome-shell is installed ;) and just extract it to ~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions
19:57:20 <Emichan> you may need to restart the shell just to load the extension
19:58:46 <Emichan> after that you can just edit the theme file (/usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css if you installed it through the package manager) and hit the refresh theme link at the top :)
20:00:21 <finalzone> I heard gnome-shell from installer is oudated...
20:01:26 <Schendje> yeah what's the easiest way to get the latest in fedora? I assume the official one is outdated?
20:01:32 <Schendje> just build it would be easiest?
20:03:10 <Emichan> i'm using jhbuild
20:03:38 <Schendje> ok i'm gonna close the meeting now
20:03:41 <Schendje> #endmeeting