01:00:01 <nirik> #startmeeting Fedora_14_Features (2010-09-29)
01:00:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 30 01:00:01 2010 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:00:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
01:00:02 <nirik> #meetingname fedora-14-features
01:00:02 <nirik> #topic Introduction
01:00:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-14-features'
01:00:13 <nirik> Welcome to the Fedora IRC Classroom everyone.
01:01:09 <nirik> I'm going to be talking tonight about the Fedora 14 feature list.
01:01:20 <nirik> First a bit of background:
01:01:38 <nirik> Fedora has for a while now created a list of features in each release.
01:02:17 <nirik> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy has a overview of the process.
01:02:38 <nirik> Feel free to jump in and ask questions at any time. ;)
01:03:20 <nirik> A list of features for each release can be found at:
01:03:35 <nirik> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features
01:04:04 <nirik> #topic Overview for Fedora 14
01:04:41 <nirik> So, Fedora 14 has the fewest features of any release since we started keeping track.
01:05:00 <nirik> So, it could shape up to be a very nice stablizing release. ;)
01:05:08 <KyleXY> nirik: Yes, I have seen, so why does that make it such a large release. Bug fixes?
01:05:12 <KyleXY> Ah I see.
01:05:24 <nirik> There are still 20 features ready to go.
01:05:33 <nirik> and lots of updated packages and bug fixes of course. ;)
01:06:07 <nirik> So, any questions on the general features process or f14 features in a general view?
01:06:37 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and dive into the features then...
01:06:48 <nirik> please do chime in with questions anytime.
01:07:09 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F14Boost144
01:07:22 <nirik> The Boost framework gets updated to the latest.
01:07:23 <KyleXY> nirik: What is the biggest change in F14 going to be.
01:07:26 <nirik> Lots of packages use boost.
01:07:37 <KyleXY> Largest*
01:07:49 <nirik> KyleXY: it depends on how you measure it I suppose.
01:08:05 <nirik> we can try looking at that question again at the end after we have touched on all the features?
01:08:24 <KyleXY> Ok,
01:08:44 <nirik> For boost, you can look at the feature page to see all the packages that use it. It's really a pretty widely used core project.
01:09:23 <nirik> This is a nice feature for programmers and package maintainers.
01:09:32 <nirik> Moving on, another developer feature:
01:09:37 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/D_Programming
01:10:09 <nirik> Fedora 14 will have a D compiler
01:10:27 <nirik> from the feature page:
01:10:31 <nirik> "The D programming language is available in Fedora 14. D is a modern language with high performance near C/C++ with an easy syntax. C/C++ and Java developers can easily migrate to D."
01:11:01 <nirik> Another fun language to play with.
01:11:25 <nirik> It's also worth noting that the owner of this feature has been posted some nice tutorials to planet.fedoraproject.org
01:11:32 <nirik> There you can see how to do simple programs in D.
01:12:31 <nirik> Next up...
01:12:37 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EC2
01:12:57 <nirik> Amazon EC2 has sadly had a Fedora8 instance available for people for years.
01:13:04 <nirik> Which is end of life and no longer supported
01:13:24 <nirik> With Fedora 14, a amazon EC2 AMI should be released at the same time Fedora 14 comes out.
01:13:42 <nirik> This will allow people using amazons EC2 to have a choice of a modern, supported Fedora release for their needs.
01:14:03 <nirik> It's shaping up to be nice... with internal fedora mirrors so updates don't cost any BW
01:14:29 <nirik> They are still working out the details, but it should be a nice feature.
01:15:02 <nirik> ok, next up...
01:15:06 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F14EclipseHelios
01:15:15 <nirik> This is the newest version of the eclipse IDE.
01:15:51 <nirik> It's pretty amazing the sheer volume of packages and changes in eclipse and it's dependent packages.
01:16:04 <nirik> lots of bugfixes and other updates here.
01:16:10 <KyleXY> nirik: Quick question, from what I have recently heard: Android SDK had some major issues with the latest release. Will it be easy to remove the package or will it be pretty worked in there?
01:16:33 <nirik> remove which? the android SDK?
01:16:48 <KyleXY> The Eclipse Package, or will it not be installed by default
01:16:51 <KyleXY> Just added into the repos?
01:17:01 <nirik> I haven't looked at it lately, but the android sdk should work fine with Fedora, it used to.
01:17:03 <KyleXY> Not following well, so excuse me if I am losing my mind.
01:17:09 <KyleXY> Not Fedora in a whole
01:17:17 <KyleXY> The latest IDE version,
01:17:20 <nirik> These eclipse packages will be available, they aren't installed by default.
01:17:26 <KyleXY> Ok,
01:17:54 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HOWTO_Setup_Android_Development may also be of help. ;)
01:18:04 <KyleXY> I know how to set it up but:
01:18:08 * KyleXY is getting the link
01:18:42 <KyleXY> Caution: There are known issues with the ADT plugin running with Eclipse 3.6. Please stay on 3.5 until further notice.
01:18:58 <KyleXY> 3.6 +
01:19:11 <nirik> KyleXY: I don't have any info on that, but I bet the fedora eclipse folks know about it/have a fix/are working on one. ;)
01:19:37 <KyleXY> States so on the main page, just thought I would stick in my two cents
01:19:39 <KyleXY> Reference: http://developer.android.com/sdk/eclipse-adt.html
01:19:42 <nirik> you can of course wait and stay on an older release if you like.
01:19:52 <nirik> yeah, thanks for the info.
01:20:00 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Erlang_R14
01:20:11 <nirik> Next up we have another developer/language related feature.
01:20:39 <nirik> more bugfixes and nice upstream features landing in fedora for erlang users.
01:21:02 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GdbIndex
01:21:22 <nirik> Another developer related feature here... this vastly improves startup time for the gnu debugger.
01:21:48 <nirik> This also helps out on automated things like abrt getting crash information from programs.
01:22:33 <nirik> Next up...
01:22:37 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNUstep
01:22:48 <nirik> This is something thats been around for a long time.
01:23:20 <nirik> This feature is just bringing it up to the latest version and integrating it more into fedora.
01:23:53 <nirik> folks can now easily build gnustep apps on fedora
01:24:29 <nirik> Next up something for admins:
01:24:34 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ipmiutil
01:25:00 <nirik> ipmiutil allows you to do a bunch of management functions for devices that are ipmi enabled.
01:25:38 <nirik> There are several other ipmiutils available in fedora already, but this package provides a better interface
01:25:50 <nirik> allowing people who don't know much about ipmi to manage their devices easily.
01:26:13 <nirik> There's a comparison table of the various tools at http://ipmiutil.sourceforge.net/docs/ipmisw-compare.htm
01:26:59 <nirik> next a feature that will make many parts of fedora faster for everyone...
01:27:03 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/libjpeg-turbo
01:27:20 <nirik> This is a fork of the orig library that programs use to handle jpegs.
01:27:30 <nirik> It's a good deal faster than the one that was used in the past.
01:27:57 <nirik> So, while people won't see this library from an end user perspective,
01:28:06 <nirik> it will provide a very nice speed boost.
01:28:47 <nirik> happily it also doesn't require any changes in applications... it's just use and enjoy.
01:29:17 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE45
01:29:28 <nirik> No fedora release would be complete without a kde update. ;)
01:29:51 <nirik> This brings kde up to 4.5 (at least 4.5.1)
01:30:10 <nirik> Lots of general bug fixes and new features in this mix.
01:30:56 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MeeGo_1.0
01:31:09 <nirik> Another desktop update here... this time from moblin to the new meego.
01:31:33 <nirik> There will also be a meego spin available in live format to try things out.
01:31:56 <KyleXY> nirik: Is this already in the latest beta/alpha version
01:31:59 <KyleXY> whichever is out now?
01:32:15 <nirik> Fedora 14 Beta? yes, all these features should be there...
01:32:31 <KyleXY> Including the beta Meego spin?
01:33:07 <nirik> yes. It's available from the nightly live composes:
01:33:20 <nirik> http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/meego/
01:33:44 <nirik> and will be released with F14
01:33:56 <KyleXY> Thank you: Something I should test, may consider using it for a few netbooks.
01:34:02 <nirik> please do. ;)
01:34:07 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MemoryDebuggingTools
01:34:18 <nirik> Another gdb change to help with tracking down memory issues.
01:34:48 <nirik> You can much more easily see where memory is being used and by what.
01:34:53 <nirik> A great help for programmers.
01:35:28 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetBeans_6.9
01:35:40 <nirik> We have an update to the netbeans IDE to the latest version.
01:36:09 <nirik> Lots of new good changes in this version
01:36:53 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenSCAP
01:37:07 <nirik> This feature is nice for enterprise folks to play around with SCAP easily.
01:37:31 <nirik> with this you can scan machines and gather information that is used in SCAP processes...
01:38:09 <nirik> so, you know what versions of things you have and what secure threats to look for.
01:38:40 <nirik> I hope that this will start a nice process of gathering and using this information in the community more.
01:39:00 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/perl5.12
01:39:30 <nirik> We have a new perl version... with all the 1600 or so perl modules fedora ships rebuilt and ready to run on it.
01:40:02 <nirik> there's a detailed changelog upstream at http://perldoc.perl.org/perldelta.html
01:40:06 <nirik> on whats changed.
01:40:48 <nirik> (althought you will have to look at several of the links at http://perldoc.perl.org/index-history.html to see all the changes from f13's perl)
01:41:16 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python_2.7
01:41:26 <nirik> along with perl, we have a new python version.
01:41:58 <nirik> a similar number of packages were rebuilt and setup to work with the new python version.
01:42:39 <nirik> Python 2.7 includes some changes to make things easier for people to port to python3 as well as bug fixes and other improvements.
01:43:13 <nirik> and rolling on with scripting languages:
01:43:16 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Star
01:43:44 <nirik> We have the latest version of Rakudo... which is a perl6 implentation.
01:44:06 <nirik> nice for folks that would like to learn and try out perl6.
01:44:42 <nirik> and while we are on these:
01:44:47 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Ruby_1.8.7
01:45:01 <nirik> ruby gets a much needed update to 1.8.7
01:45:32 <nirik> It's worth noting that 1.9.x is available, but the changes there are very drastic. Many ruby gems don't work with 1.9 yet... so fedora isn't moving to it quite yet.
01:46:05 <nirik> likely soon there will be a 1.9 that can be parallel installed with 1.8 for the best of both worlds.
01:46:53 <nirik> Finally, the last 2 features... and I can't resist this joke... Fedora has Sugar and Spice. ;)
01:47:09 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Spice
01:47:48 <nirik> Spice is a delightfull way to to access a gui session in a virtual machine.
01:48:07 <nirik> Sadly, the integration in libvirt isn't available yet, but you can try it out in f14.
01:48:44 <nirik> This should help Fedora lead the way on virtualization and make gui access to guests fast and nice.
01:49:09 <nirik> and finally...
01:49:13 <nirik> #topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Sugar_0.90
01:49:25 <nirik> Fedora is shipping the latest version of the Sugar desktop.
01:49:37 <nirik> This is the desktop used by OLPC
01:50:07 <nirik> It's easy to try out on a fedora machine and help develop and test it for OLPC folks.
01:50:22 <nirik> It's a "different" setup, but some people really like it.
01:50:42 <nirik> #topic Looking ahead
01:51:10 <nirik> So, thats the Feature list for f14. There are a number of features that could well land in F15:
01:51:18 <nirik> *systemd - new init system
01:51:28 <nirik> *gnome3 - totally redone desktop with gnome-shell.
01:52:01 <nirik> *lzma compression for live media.
01:52:30 <nirik> *new setroubleshoot gui for selinux.
01:52:35 <nirik> And likely many others.
01:52:43 <nirik> #topic Q&A
01:52:55 <nirik> Anyone have general questions on the features or process or anything?
01:53:38 <KyleXY> Quick Note: Meego nightly compose is dead.
01:54:03 <nirik> dead in what way?
01:54:09 <KyleXY> Booting completely fails.
01:54:14 <KyleXY> Stuck at grub
01:54:26 * KyleXY checks bugzilla
01:54:38 <nirik> :( yeah, please do file it... ;)
01:55:02 <Gamemakingdude> Does F14 have java packaged in it or is it already packaged along with it?
01:55:18 <nirik> Gamemakingdude: it is already available... java-1.6.0-openjdk
01:55:35 <Gamemakingdude> Ok thanks anyway.
01:55:55 <nirik> no problem
01:55:59 <xheliox> Does this get posted online somewhere? (this class)
01:56:27 <nirik> yes indeed.
01:56:49 <nirik> It will be logged and posted to http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/ as well as the archive section of the classroom wiki
01:57:52 <xheliox> Nifty. Was in and out of the room, but some good info and pressing page up is far too much to ask of me :)
01:58:11 <nirik> :) We do log all the classess... enjoy them at your leasure.
01:58:30 <KyleXY> nirik: Can't remember off the tongue, but the boot option is verbose to display everyone correct?
01:58:55 <nirik> KyleXY: just remove 'rhgb quiet'
01:59:22 <KyleXY> Oh :/, my bad
01:59:29 <nirik> ok, I'll go ahead and wrap things up here... as always you can ask general Fedora questions in #fedora and #fedora-qa (for rawhide/prerelease issues)
01:59:31 <KyleXY> I keep forgetting this blasted CPU is i686
01:59:47 <nirik> KyleXY: ah, that would do it. ;(
01:59:52 <KyleXY> Yeah :p
01:59:57 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone!
02:00:04 <nirik> #endmeeting