16:00:08 <jreznik> #startmeeting Fedora Board Meeting
16:00:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun  7 16:00:08 2011 UTC.  The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:14 <jsmith> jreznik: Go ahead...
16:00:18 <jreznik> #meetingname Fedora Board
16:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_board'
16:00:24 <jreznik> #chair jsmith
16:00:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: jreznik jsmith
16:00:25 <jsmith> jreznik: I'll give some updates, if you don't mind
16:00:33 <jreznik> jsmith: of course
16:00:40 <jreznik> #topic Board Members Roll Call
16:00:52 * jreznik is here ;-)
16:00:56 * jsmith is here
16:00:58 * ke4qqq is here
16:01:43 * dcr226 brought donuts if anyone wants one
16:01:50 <rdieter_work> here
16:01:54 <tatica> :)
16:02:01 <dcr226> :-)
16:02:28 * thomasj lurks
16:03:10 * hiemanshu is around too
16:03:11 * abadger1999 here
16:03:33 <herlo> dcr226: yum!
16:03:37 <jreznik> #info jreznik jsmith ke4qqq rdieter_work abadger1999 present
16:03:52 <jreznik> #chair jreznik jsmith ke4qqq rdieter_work abadger1999
16:03:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 jreznik jsmith ke4qqq rdieter_work
16:05:26 <smooge> here
16:05:28 <dcr226> herlo, hows married life treating you? ;-)
16:06:17 <jreznik> #info smooge present too
16:06:23 <jsmith> #info jds2001 unable to make it today, as he's not feeling well
16:06:23 <herlo> dcr226: good, probably talk in another channel? Don't want to interrupt board meeting :)
16:06:33 <jreznik> let's start today
16:06:37 <dcr226> herlo, point :-)
16:06:40 <smooge> I am just here to finish up any old business
16:06:50 <jreznik> #topic Updates
16:07:00 <jsmith> A few updates before we open up for questions and answers.
16:07:00 <jreznik> smooge: ah, ok :)
16:07:23 <jsmith> First, a quick recap of FUDCon Panama, and status updates on the other FUDCons
16:07:40 <jsmith> FUDCon Panama was a great success -- not only did people show up to learn and to grow, but they showed up to work as well
16:08:17 <jsmith> We had quite a number of new packagers, designers, documentation people, and translators come out of the FUDCon, so a big thumbs up to everyone who helped out with FUDCon Panama
16:08:26 <jsmith> As far as the other FUDCon go:
16:08:42 * kital is here but have only very slow connection i am on the way
16:08:43 <jsmith> FUDCon EMEA will be in Milan, Italy from September 30th through October 2nd
16:08:50 <jreznik> #info FUDCon Panama was a great success -- not only did people show up to learn and to grow, but they showed up to work as well
16:08:51 <jsmith> #info kital is present as well
16:09:11 <jreznik> #info FUDCon EMEA will be in Milan, Italy from September 30th through October 2nd
16:09:17 <jsmith> FUDCon APAC is currently open for bids (for the November/December time frame this year) until June 23rd
16:09:37 <jsmith> Next year, we'll try to shift FUDCon APAC earlier in the year, so that we have one FUDCon per quarter
16:09:48 <jsmith> So we'll be opening up bidding for FUDCon APAC 2012 very soon as well
16:10:19 <jsmith> Last but not least, FUDCon North America will be in Blacksburg, Virginia on the campus of Virginia Tech in January of 2012
16:10:34 <Southern_Gentlem> !
16:10:46 <jreznik> #info FUDCon APAC 2011 is currently open for bids, we'll be opening bidding for FUDCon APAC 2012 soon as intention is to have APAC earlier in the year (not November/December term)
16:10:54 <jsmith> => Southern_Gentlem
16:11:13 <Southern_Gentlem> hotel contracts will be finished up in June
16:11:29 <jsmith> #info FUDCon NA hotel contracts will be finished up in June
16:11:34 <jsmith> Great :-)
16:11:50 <jsmith> In other news, we're in the middle of FESCo and Board elections
16:11:50 <jreznik> #info FUDCon North America will be in Blacksburg, Virginia on the campus of Virginia Tech in January of 2012
16:12:01 <jsmith> If you haven't yet voted, please take the time to vote in the elections
16:12:20 <jsmith> Visit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections for more details
16:12:21 <jreznik> jsmith: we have to be louder about elections - ask people to go vote
16:12:34 <jreznik> a few people complained to me...
16:12:41 <jsmith> I've tried to get the word out both in email and in microblogging
16:13:01 <jsmith> But I can't get the word out alone -- so we need everyone's help to spread the word
16:13:17 <rdieter_work> when does the voting close exactly?
16:13:24 <rdieter_work> today?  tomorrow?  other?
16:13:29 <ke4qqq> jreznik: what more do you see us being able to do?? what venues are we not hitting (I know we've hit the planet, announce, devel-announce, and fab)
16:13:36 <ke4qqq> rdieter_work: depends on the election
16:13:51 <ke4qqq> rdieter_work: jun 8 23:59:59 for FESCo
16:14:04 <ke4qqq> rdieter_work: jun 9 23:59:59 for Board.
16:14:08 <rdieter_work> ok, that complicates things doesn't it?  too bad they're not sync'd.
16:14:13 <KolonelPanic> ke4qqq: those times are UTC correct?
16:14:33 <ke4qqq> Those are UTC times, and yes, my fault for them not being in sync as intended
16:14:35 * jreznik is trying to be loud as possible - twitter, internal brno fedora devels etc...
16:15:17 <DrManhattan> can we vote against people?
16:15:18 <smooge> jsmith, I will be willing to help work with the APAC team
16:15:34 <jsmith> DrManhattan: We use range voting.  More info on the link I pasted earlier.
16:15:37 <tatica> lol
16:15:42 <DrManhattan> thx
16:15:50 <rdieter_work> anti votes
16:16:00 <jsmith> smooge: Please join us on the fudcon-planning list :-)
16:16:18 <jsmith> Thanks again to everyone who worked on Fedora 15
16:16:21 <hiemanshu> anti vote would be to vote everyone except the person you want to anti-vote
16:16:31 <jsmith> It's a release we can be proud of!
16:16:33 <DrManhattan> thx hiemanshu
16:16:42 <jsmith> Now it's time to get to work on Fedora 16 :-)
16:16:58 <jsmith> The feature deadline isn't that far away, so now is not the time to slack
16:17:02 <DrManhattan> hooray for kernel 3.0. Can't wait to see what you guys can do with it.
16:17:08 * jsmith puts on his taskmaster hat
16:17:17 <jsmith> That's all I have for updates
16:17:21 <jreznik> please, quiet, let jsmith finish updates
16:17:58 <jreznik> ok, so jsmith is done, let's move to Q/A
16:18:16 <jreznik> please follow general rules https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board_public_IRC_meetings#General_Rules
16:18:32 <jreznik> #topic Questions and answers
16:19:17 <jsmith> If you have a question, type a question mark (?)
16:19:29 <jsmith> If you have a comment on the current question, type an exclamation mark (!)
16:19:46 <jsmith> And then be patient while our meeting secretary (jreznik) or I call on you
16:19:59 <jreznik> also there's an 8 minutes limit for individual question
16:20:16 <jsmith> That ensures that we don't get bogged down on any one question
16:20:18 <dcr226> ?
16:20:38 <jreznik> speak, dcr226
16:21:43 <jsmith> (As a hint, you can always type out your question in your favorite editor and then copy/paste when called upon, so that the meeting can proceed more quickly)
16:21:49 <dcr226> mharris and I were doing some testing with Fedora 15 for a total newbie, I've also done a fair amount in and around my peers. I guess its just food for though and data
16:22:40 <dcr226> that IMHO, Fedora is sooo close to being usable by AverageJoe, just a few tiny adjustments to the process. Perhaps promoting "mind broadening" to some of the guys working on anaconda and the live.isos
16:23:13 <mharris> Yeah, the process of finding, downloading and installing Fedora - could use some Joel Spolsky
16:23:14 <elad661> !
16:23:31 <jsmith> I'm sure the anaconda and release engineering teams would love feedback
16:23:35 <dcr226> stuff like that....Fedora15++ btw, its worked better on my test candidates than any before - no nice work :-)
16:23:45 <dcr226> s/no/so
16:23:54 <jreznik> dcr226: good idea is try to reach anaconda/websites guys directly
16:24:01 <jreznik> but thanks for updates for board
16:24:12 <jsmith> That reminds me -- there's an open Fedora 15 retrospective page at where people can give feedback on what they thought worked or didn't work well at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_15_Retrospective
16:24:16 <mharris> jsmith: basically I attempted to do a F15 liveusb test run pretending I was Joe Average, and trying to ignore any pre-knowledge of how Fedora or Linux works
16:24:30 <mharris> I started out typing into google what I thought the average Joe might type in, and went from there.
16:24:30 <jsmith> I'll be scheduling a meeting for next week to go over the retrospective
16:24:40 <jsmith> mharris: (Please use the protocol at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board_public_IRC_meetings#General_Rules)
16:24:50 <mharris> Every page I read, I tried to think about it how Joe Average might, rather than how I personally would.
16:25:04 <mharris> oh, sorry
16:25:07 <jreznik> #info jsmith to schedule meeting for next week to go over the retrospective
16:25:23 <jsmith> => elad661
16:25:25 <gholms> ?
16:25:44 <elad661> Just wanted to say that #fedora-websites is where you should go about downloading
16:25:50 <elad661> we are open for comments
16:26:00 <elad661> and the design team could help as well with the other stuff
16:26:24 <elad661> Might be better to go through design before bugging anaconda guys
16:26:34 <elad661> EOF
16:26:41 <jreznik> => gholms
16:27:42 <gholms> F15 released with release notes that said one needs 384M to install it.
16:27:59 <gholms> Last week the online release notes updated that to 640M.
16:28:03 <jsmith> gholms: Yes, that was unfortunate, and I know it's been corrected
16:28:09 <dcr226> ?
16:28:13 <DrManhattan> a lil SEO on the fedoraprojects sites maybe, to help w google
16:28:32 <jreznik> DrManhattan: please follow protocol
16:28:38 <gholms> In hindsight, could this sort of thing have been avoided somehow?
16:28:59 <KolonelPanic> !
16:29:05 <jsmith> gholms: It was one of those situations where something was discussed in a bug, but nobody thought to mark that bug so that the release notes team would see it
16:29:24 <gholms> Aha, that makes sense.
16:29:55 <jsmith> => KolonelPanic
16:29:56 <KolonelPanic> gholms: In the past the "beats" helped with this kind of thing, not sure what the current process is in Docs to get the Release NOtes Content.
16:30:00 <KolonelPanic> EOF
16:30:22 <jsmith> Yes, they still use beats, and they can always use more help making sure the relevant info makes it into the proper beat
16:30:35 <ke4qqq> KolonelPanic: gholms: docs is stretched pretty thin at the moment as well, which doesn't help matters, I am sure they'd like more help.
16:30:37 <jsmith> gholms: Would you mind noting that on the retrospective page I linked to earlier, so it doesn't get lost?
16:30:47 * gholms scrolls up
16:30:48 <gholms> Sure
16:30:52 <jreznik> thanks
16:31:02 <DrManhattan> ?
16:31:04 <jsmith> => dcr226
16:31:08 <dcr226> gholms reminded me, I've done a bunch of testing with the livecd and anaconda also. The livecd can be installed in much less than 640M, in fact - it can be installed in less than 200M..If anyone is interested in my testing results, I'm more than happy to share/discuss
16:31:21 * dcr226 copy/pasted that time ;-)
16:31:26 <jsmith> Thanks dcr226 :-)
16:31:43 <DrManhattan> how does one go about helping the docs team out?
16:32:01 <jreznik> => DrManhattan (now you can speak ;-)
16:32:26 <DrManhattan> oops. Sorries. I'll get used to it and read up more on this before next week.
16:32:31 <ke4qqq> DrManhattan: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_contribute_to_Docs
16:32:37 <DrManhattan> thx ke4qqq
16:32:38 <jsmith> DrManhattan: The easiest way to help out is to join the docs mailing list.  I also hang out in the docs IRC channel, and am more than happy to help people get up to speed in the tools, etc.
16:33:55 <DrManhattan> thx jsmith
16:33:59 <jsmith> If I can go off on a tangent for a second, I think the Docs project is probably somewhat representative of many of our SIGs in Fedora
16:34:16 <jsmith> People show up and are willing to help, but don't often know where to begin or how to start learning the tools
16:34:38 <jsmith> One of the Board's goals for the next two releases is to make Fedora easier to contribute to
16:35:08 <jsmith> So I encourage everyone to look around, find places where we can make that easier, and help lower the barriers to entry
16:35:23 <jsmith> (Personally, I'm planning a series of blog posts on the Docs toolchain)
16:35:35 <jreznik> jsmith: +1!
16:35:38 <DrManhattan> ooo fedora medical!
16:35:45 <tatica> !
16:36:01 <jreznik> => tatica
16:36:11 * tatica could suggest do some simple "steps to help" campaing with easy posters showing up what to do in a first instance
16:36:27 <elad661> +1
16:36:38 * tatica trying to find an example image
16:37:05 <Southern_Gentlem> !
16:37:17 <tatica> eof
16:37:18 <jsmith> One other thing I'll add is that I've noticed several people introduce themselves to a list over the past couple of weeks, and never get any sort of reply
16:37:22 <jreznik> => Southern_Gentlem
16:37:41 <jsmith> I think every self-introduction to a mailing list should get some sort of "welcome to the team -- here's how you can help" type email
16:37:52 <KolonelPanic> !
16:37:57 <Southern_Gentlem> maybe having how to contrubute track at fudcons to also attract new contributors
16:37:58 <Southern_Gentlem> eof
16:38:32 <jreznik> => KolonelPanic
16:38:33 <tatica> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2649/5808395279_7b63de4388_o.png
16:38:35 <orvtech> !
16:38:36 <KolonelPanic> Not only a welcome message but follow through I think would be good
16:38:44 <jsmith> Southern_Gentlem: That's a great idea, and that's part of what we tried to do in Panama
16:38:46 <tatica> !
16:38:51 <KolonelPanic> Touch back with the person in a week or so.
16:38:59 <KolonelPanic> EOF
16:39:03 <jreznik> => orvtech
16:39:46 <orvtech> what Southern_Gentlem stated is true, it helps a lot. this past FUDCon in Panama helped me a lot when gomix and Daniel did a sort of hackfest for sysadmins there
16:40:19 <orvtech> it is basically a mini bootcamp on how to colaborate with the latam infrastructure team (rpmdev)
16:40:24 <orvtech> EOF
16:40:44 <jreznik> => tatica
16:40:48 <tatica> Southern_Gentlem, that's a good idea (and I did it too at fudcon), but you also need to reach to those who feel scared to talk at IRC/Mail and are great talented people. So there should be a guideliness made for each kind of personality and then let people follow their own paths.
16:41:12 <tatica> fudcons are only once per year in each continent, so we need to recruit more people though internet than through events
16:41:13 <tatica> eof
16:41:36 <jreznik> tatica: agreed
16:43:08 <tatica> is everyone writing or just reading my last lines? (or did I run out internet?)
16:43:13 * tatica wants to add something
16:43:19 <kanarip> you are still here
16:43:22 <jsmith> tatica: Continue -- we're reading :-)
16:43:22 <tatica> :)
16:44:01 <tatica> we also need to encourage people to attend to events to *do* things. Fudcons are way different from other events because we go to do, more than to spread (but there's a fact that not everyone can attend)
16:44:47 <tatica> so is cool to think on ways to spread and recruit while we are at release-parties, fudcons and others; but our main goal must be to recruit and guide people "in the daily routine" (bad translation, sry)
16:44:51 <tatica> now, eof
16:44:55 <abadger1999> +1
16:45:45 * jreznik again completely agrees but also knows it's not easy to spread and recruit... as he's trying to do it
16:45:48 <jsmith> +1
16:45:51 <jsmith> It's not an easy task
16:45:55 <jsmith> Mentorship is *hard*
16:46:01 <DrManhattan> !
16:46:09 <jreznik> => DrManhattan
16:46:10 <jsmith> In fact, it's probably at least twice as hard as just "doing it myself"
16:46:10 <tatica> (but that's why we are a team)
16:46:21 <jsmith> But the only way we scale and grow is to do the hard things
16:46:35 <Haowei> +1 tatica
16:46:40 <ke4qqq> not only is mentorship hard, but it's rarely effective. If you want something that will depress you to read check out: http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2011/05/31/effective-mentoring-programs/
16:46:40 <DrManhattan> one of the best ways for you to spread and recruit is to foster a friendlier environment in the room - you never know who's coming into your chat
16:46:52 <mbouffard> !
16:47:14 * kanarip wonders, among other people, what happened to the 8-minute rule
16:47:25 <DrManhattan> one of the best things about IRC is that it lets people who CANT go out in public usually to interact with regular folk - and you really never know who is actually coming into the room.
16:47:34 <DrManhattan> eof
16:47:45 <DrManhattan> (that means im done, right?)
16:47:45 <mbouffard> cancel !
16:48:00 <tatica> !
16:48:05 <jreznik> kanarip: :) you're right but no other topic arrived after tatica so...
16:48:06 <jsmith> kanarip: Good point -- Shall we move on to another topic?
16:48:10 <ke4qqq> mbouffard: I think thats !! :)
16:48:14 <gholms> (low priority ?)
16:48:35 <mbouffard> semantics :)
16:48:51 <jreznik> anything else anyone or should we let tatica speaking?
16:48:57 <tatica> the same way we need to work to improve how Ambassadors work and their main task, we should also work with mentors. but we need mentors in each Team, not only for ambassadors.
16:49:06 <tatica> eof, sorry... go ahead with next topic
16:49:09 <tatica> :)
16:50:11 <Haowei> @jsmith, mentors esp for China should give some push as few of them keeps active as a mentor
16:50:14 <mbouffard> ! (on mentoring)
16:50:32 <jreznik> => mbouffard
16:51:01 <Haowei> @jsmith, I have only seen gbraad,kaio or so, few mentors keeps active in China
16:51:02 <mbouffard> someone could read a whole book on how to do something and still not know what the hell to do.
16:51:23 <jreznik> Haowei: please follow protocol, mbouffard is speaking, thanks
16:51:33 <mbouffard> mentors are like anchors, where the mentoree does the actual thing and learns from doing it, with the mentor as a resource
16:52:29 <mbouffard> I.e. some knowledge can't be transfered by word to mouth, a quick read on 'tacit knowledge' for mentors could be useful
16:52:36 <mbouffard> eof
16:52:47 <Haowei> !
16:53:17 <jreznik> => Haowei
16:53:38 <Haowei> mentors esp for China should give some push as few of them keeps active as a mentor.  I have only seen gbraad,kaio or so, few mentors keeps active in China
16:53:50 <Southern_Gentlem> !
16:54:23 <jreznik> => Southern_Gentlem
16:54:33 <Haowei> the status is that kaio who is not in China mainland seems to be most active one for fedora China things but not see mentors in China go to be active
16:54:44 <Southern_Gentlem> Haowei,  i really that that is an issue for FAMSco no the board
16:55:23 <Southern_Gentlem> as a mentor myself sometimes real life happens
16:55:24 <Southern_Gentlem> eof
16:55:34 <Haowei> @Southern_Gentlem, just though when saw comments for mentor. I am sorry
16:55:54 <Haowei> eof
16:55:59 <ke4qqq> Haowei: my experience leads me to believe that long term mentoring burns people out
16:56:04 <jreznik> Haowei: np but Southern_Gentlem is right here - it's FAMSCo thing
16:56:11 <ke4qqq> Haowei: and 'turnover' in the mentor role is natural and good.
16:56:49 <jreznik> ok guys, last few minutes - any other topic?
16:56:49 <Haowei> jreznik, ke2qqq, agree
16:57:00 <ke4qqq> can we get gholms question?
16:57:11 <jreznik> ke4qqq: oh, I missed it, sorry
16:57:16 <jreznik> => gholms
16:57:47 <gholms> How *do* you cancel a '!' or '?' with your IRC protocol?  I have used ¡ in the past, but...
16:58:04 <gholms> ...and ¿...
16:58:29 <ke4qqq> gholms: don't think it's defined - we'd welcome that addition to the protocol though :) It's a wiki edit boldly!
16:58:36 <jreznik> gholms: hh, spanish one :) but I see mbouffard's "cancel !" worked very well
16:59:12 <gholms> ke4qqq: Heh, forgive me for being hesitant to edit the Board's wiki pages. :)
16:59:13 <mbouffard> 'helm, delay that !'
16:59:35 <jsmith> Be bold -- it's a wiki
16:59:51 <ke4qqq> gholms: Be bold - if we don't like it we'll revert it
16:59:51 <herlo> !
17:00:03 <jreznik> => herlo, last one
17:00:10 <herlo> kk, no problem. It's short
17:01:06 <herlo> jsmith: to your point of 'be bold'. That should be something we put in our mantra for Fedora contributors. I think that's where we get stuck. We need to invite people to 'be bold', 'try something new', etc. constantly. It should be one of the Four F's (if only it was an F).
17:01:21 <jsmith> +1
17:01:24 <jreznik> +1!
17:01:32 <ke4qqq> herlo: +1
17:01:36 <orvtech> +1
17:01:37 <mbouffard> +1 Furious submitting
17:01:41 <jreznik> fe fold!
17:01:48 <jreznik> now it's f :)
17:01:51 <herlo> lol, nice jreznik !
17:02:00 <herlo> EOF
17:02:26 <jreznik> ok, thank you everybody! time is out... see you in two weeks again here
17:02:29 <tatica> :)
17:02:30 <rdieter_work> need to coin some fedora equivalent to "be smurfy"
17:02:37 <herlo> rdieter_work: +1
17:02:43 <jsmith> rdieter_work: +1
17:02:59 * tatica didn't understand that... but +1
17:03:01 <herlo> thanks jreznik
17:03:08 <jreznik> #endmeeting