16:00:20 <jreznik> #startmeeting Fedora Board Meeting - 2011-03-29
16:00:20 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Mar 29 16:00:20 2011 UTC.  The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:20 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:28 * ke4qqq is here
16:00:34 <sparch> here we go
16:00:40 <jreznik> #chair jsmith spot ke4qqq
16:00:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: jreznik jsmith ke4qqq spot
16:01:15 <jreznik> #topic roll call
16:01:22 * jds2001 is here
16:01:43 <smooge> Here
16:01:56 * jsmith is here
16:02:15 <jreznik> rdieter_work is going to be late probably
16:02:23 <hircus_work> here
16:02:31 <geek_cl> here
16:02:31 <jreznik> kital regards (should be secretary today, I take it)
16:02:35 <sparch> here
16:02:36 <jsmith> Thanks jreznik
16:02:44 * abadger1999 here
16:02:51 * spot is still here
16:02:58 * ke4qqq hasn't yet left :)
16:02:58 <jsmith> #info jreznik to volunteer for secretary duty in jsimon's absence
16:03:31 <jreznik> #info jreznik ke4qqq spot jds2001 spot smooge jsmith hircus_work geek_cl abadger1999 present
16:03:47 <jreznik> #info rdieter to be late, kital regards
16:04:11 <jreznik> #topic agenda
16:04:31 <jsmith> We have a very light agenda this week
16:04:41 <jsmith> I've got some updates on the schedule, etc.
16:04:48 <jreznik> #meetingname fedora-board
16:04:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-board'
16:04:52 <jsmith> and then we'll open it up for general questions and answers
16:05:16 <jsmith> As you're probably aware, we made a decision to slip the schedule a week before the Beta
16:05:19 <jreznik> jsmith: ok, I'll give you space now :)
16:05:41 <jsmith> This was due to a number of items, but particularly the NetworkManager 0.9 update
16:06:35 <jsmith> FESCo granted an exception, but rel-eng and QA felt they didn't have time to get things properly tested in time for the Beta, and asked for a slip
16:06:46 <jreznik> #topic slip the schedule a week before Beta
16:07:27 <jsmith> #info Link to the updated schedule is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/15/Schedule
16:07:47 <jreznik> #info decision to slip the schedule a week before the Beta due to NetworkManager 0.9 update
16:08:01 <jsmith> That puts Beta at 19 April, and general availability at 24 May, assuming we don't slip again
16:08:18 <jreznik> #info FESCo granted an exception, rel-eng and QA asked for time to properly test intrusive changes
16:08:40 <jsmith> Also, I got a quick update from release engineering yesterday, and there's still a lot of package churn happening at this point in the release cycle, which has made it difficult to produce Test Candidate images
16:08:54 <jsmith> Hopefully we'll have a TC1 image today or tomorrow :-)
16:09:15 <jreznik> #info Beta 19 April, GA 24 May (assuming no more splits), TC1 today or tmrw
16:09:47 <jsmith> As always, we'd appreciate help running the TC images through the release criteria and calling out anything that appears to be broken
16:10:05 <jsmith> We're having weekly "blocker bug" meetings on Fridays to help sort those issues out
16:10:24 <jsmith> Questions, comments, or complaints about the schedule slip and/or schedule?
16:11:07 <jsmith> OK... moving on
16:11:11 <jsmith> #topic Ways you can help!
16:11:13 <abadger1999> I thought the tree froze for beta?
16:11:24 <abadger1999> Is it only for final that it freezes?
16:12:17 <jsmith> abadger1999: To be honest, I don't recall -- I'm sure dgilmore could help answer that question
16:12:39 <jsmith> Several people have asked me privately how they can help in getting ready for the Fedora 15 release
16:12:49 <jsmith> I just want to point out a couple of easy ways to get involved
16:13:06 <jsmith> First, the docs team is always looking for help in getting the various beats of the Release Notes completed
16:13:28 <jsmith> If you've got a few free minutes and wouldn't mind writing about some of the features of Fedora 15, I'm sure they'd appreciate the help
16:13:54 <jsmith> Another team that can use your help is the Marketing team... they're looking for people to help write feature profiles and help put together marketing materials for Fedora 15
16:14:07 <jsmith> Any questions or comments?
16:14:39 <jreznik> abadger1999: from Bruno's mail on spins ml -
16:14:40 <jreznik> Beta freeze starts late on Tuesday April 5th and continues until a release
16:14:41 <jreznik> candidate is accepted.
16:15:00 <abadger1999> jreznik: thanks
16:15:06 <jsmith> #topic Topics from Board Members
16:15:21 <jsmith> Do any of the Board Members have items they'd like to discuss, before we open things up for general Q&A
16:15:33 * jsmith forgot a question mark on the end of that sentence :-(
16:15:41 <jreznik> #info how to get get involved for F15 - release notes, marketing team (feature profiles, marketing materials for F15)
16:16:06 <ke4qqq> jsmith: can we set some expectations for f16 naming - I know a lot of us have gotten questions re timing
16:16:12 <jsmith> ke4qqq: Great question
16:16:25 <jsmith> #topic F16 naming
16:16:36 <jsmith> Several things combined to mess up the F16 naming schedule
16:16:48 <jsmith> First of all, the Board and FPL were slow in vetting the names
16:17:09 <jsmith> Second, RH legal has taken longer than typical to review the names as well
16:17:35 <jsmith> To be perfectly honest, I'm not *too* worried about the additional time that it is taking, because of the schedule slip
16:17:59 <jsmith> That being said, I'm hoping we'll have the names back from RH legal very soon now, and can have the election by next week at the very latest.
16:18:50 * smooge goes to remember the election system
16:19:25 <jsmith> That brings up one other way that folks can get involved -- we're still looking for someone to volunteer as the "Elections Wrangler" for this upcoming election cycle :-)
16:19:42 <jreznik> #info Several things combined to mess up F16 naming schedule - Board and FPL were slow in vetting the names, RH legal has taken longer to review the names
16:19:55 <jsmith> #action jsmith to follow up with RH legal regarding the review of F16 name suggestions
16:20:10 <rbergeron> !
16:21:07 <ke4qqq> jsmith: if no one else steps up, I'll act as elections wrangler this cycle - I may even already have perms for that /me needs to go check .fasinfo
16:21:18 <jsmith> ke4qqq: Awesome, thanks!
16:21:23 <jsmith> => rbergeron
16:21:44 <jsmith> #info ke4qqq to volunteer as Elections Wrangler for upcoming elections cycle
16:21:46 * rbergeron just wanted to remind everyone, or possibly the person who just volunteered, that we have a handydandy schedule for the election:
16:21:50 <jreznik> #info ke4qqq to act as election wrangler this cycle (if no one else steps up)
16:21:55 <rbergeron> #link http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-elections.html
16:22:19 <rbergeron> But of course, if the election wrangler would like to have input into that they are welcome to let me know.
16:23:03 <smooge> ke4qqq, I will help. I am not planning on running or anything this cycle.
16:23:13 <jsmith> Awesome, thanks rbergeron
16:23:22 <ke4qqq> smooge: awesome!
16:23:27 <jsmith> Any other topics from Board Members?
16:23:38 <abadger1999> Status on FUDCon EMEA?
16:24:01 <jsmith> abadger1999: I'm still waiting to hear back from FAMSCo on a date/time for the meeting
16:24:26 <jsmith> abadger1999: Last I saw, the date being discussed was this coming Saturday (April 2nd)
16:24:59 <jsmith> (FAmSCo ticket 152, for those following along at home)
16:25:22 <ke4qqq> FAmSCo's trac is closed iirc
16:25:24 <jsmith> We have four bids, so it should be an interesting meeting :-)
16:25:30 <jreznik> #info FPL waiting to hear back from FAMSCo regarding FUDCon EMEA (date discussed April 2nd, FAmSCo ticket #152)
16:25:34 <abadger1999> yeah, it is.
16:25:50 <jsmith> ke4qqq: Yes, it is.  But there might be FAmSCo members wanting to know which ticket I opened :-)
16:26:36 <jsmith> Once we've determined the winning bid for FUDCon EMEA, we'll investigate the possibility of doing some sort of FUDCon in APAC as well
16:27:02 <jsmith> (I know FAmSCo has already started investigating potential venues/volunteers there as well)
16:27:22 * jsmith would really like to have a FUDCon in APAC in 2011, if possible
16:27:54 <jsmith> Other topics?
16:28:26 <abadger1999> How the Board is addressing the issues raised by the SXSW spin.
16:28:43 <smooge> would a fudcon on the west coast of NA/SA count as an APAC meeting?
16:28:49 <smooge> oops sorry
16:29:22 <jsmith> abadger1999: To be honest, the Board hasn't done much to address those issues.  I've been communicating privately with those involved, and trying to explain what happened.
16:30:14 <abadger1999> There has been a little bit of discussion on the Board mailing as well.
16:30:55 <ke4qqq> so some of my concern is that there has been a public discussion started, (the f-a-l thread) and don't want people to think that we are ignoring their concerns (even if they aren't the ones that raised the concerns)
16:31:08 <hircus_work> ! FAmSCo trac seems to be empty
16:31:42 <ke4qqq> hircus_work: FAmSCo's trac is private - you have to either initiate the ticket, or be cced by someone, or be on famsco.
16:31:52 <hircus_work> ke4qqq: thanks
16:32:14 <jsmith> #topic Open Questions and Answers
16:32:25 <abadger1999> Hold on --
16:32:30 * jsmith holds
16:32:46 <abadger1999> I agree with ke4qqq
16:32:49 * jreznik thinks SXSW was a nice event but I agree with abadger1999 and ke4qqq it should be discussed more on public places and not by private mails
16:33:25 <mizmo> to be fair the folks who opened up the public discussion simultaneously opened up multiple private threads....
16:33:32 <jsmith> Mistakes were made, and there was miscommunication as well...
16:33:48 <jsmith> I'm not sure there's anything that the Board needs to make a call on though
16:34:08 <abadger1999> We need to say something publically -- even if it's the Board is going to discuss this at their phone meeting next week.
16:34:16 <jsmith> I'm not trying to say it shouldn't be discussed
16:34:43 <abadger1999> Is the policy that's being discussed something handed down by the Board (or was a delegated power by the Board)?
16:34:55 <cwickert> jsmith: sorry if I repeat something that was said before, but I think that board action is required as a board policy was violated by board members
16:35:22 * mizmo bites her fist. hard.
16:36:03 * inode0 would really like to see this not happen this week
16:36:05 <mizmo> what action would you like to see, cwickert
16:36:14 <mizmo> please suggest a course
16:36:48 <jds2001> so i say we table this for now, and discuss next week. IRC really isn't an appropriate medium, I don't think.
16:36:49 <jreznik> guantanamo bay :)
16:36:53 <spot> FWIW, on this matter, the spin was generated by rel-eng, the art was generated by Fedora Design, and the funding came from Community Arch. The funding request should have gone through FAMSCo, and for that I apologize.
16:37:34 <spot> At no point was it my intent to circumvent any board policy or to establish a "double standard".
16:37:46 <cwickert> mizmo: first of all I'd like to see some answers, then the board should either revoke the parts of the requirements that it's members did not take into account or stick to the policy and apologize for not following it
16:38:00 <abadger1999> jds2001: I'm fine with that -- would someone (jsmith or ke4qqq?) email the ambassador thread to say we're going to discuss it next week at the phone meeting?
16:38:18 <mizmo> cwickert, um you've gotten answers on multiple threads, and multiple apologies
16:38:20 <mizmo> cwickert, anything else?
16:38:21 <abadger1999> We need to keep people not on the Board in the loop as to what's going on.
16:38:35 <jds2001> abadger1999: agreed.
16:39:17 <cwickert> mizmo: I heard three different versions about the budget and I still don't have all details to the spin, e.g. if it was a respin
16:39:25 <rbergeron> I don't think it's so much a matter of apology (at least for me) as it is for others in the community to understand that things he asked aren't being ignored.
16:39:28 <mizmo> cwickert, design team spin
16:39:36 <mizmo> cwickert, the budget came from multiple sources
16:39:50 <rbergeron> Telling christoph whatever privately doesn't tell anyone else what happened.
16:39:58 <inode0> seriously, there is nothing to be gained by doing this now - can we please table it
16:40:02 <rbergeron> Whther it's a "we failed" or otherwise.
16:40:07 <abadger1999> <nod>
16:40:21 <mizmo> if this is taken to a board phone conversation it's still not public
16:40:33 <jsmith> At the same time, anytime accusations of wrongdoing are made, I'd prefer that they be addressed privately (at least initially)
16:40:35 <cwickert> mizmo: was it a respin or not?
16:40:42 <mizmo> i don't see how this is appropriate to ambassadors
16:40:48 <mizmo> isn't it more appropriate for the spins list
16:41:15 * abadger1999 would assume that the summary of phone discussion would be public -- only the participants would be limited.
16:41:20 <mizmo> this should be tabled for now as multiple people have said. someone (please) volunteer and write a summary explaining the situation (i've seen multiple accurate ones floating around)
16:41:26 <mizmo> and send it to spins-list or ambassadors list
16:41:29 <mizmo> i feel spins list is more appropriate
16:41:31 <cwickert> traditionally media handed out on events were ambassadors duty
16:41:52 <mizmo> cwickert, you're all over the place
16:41:52 <jds2001> but producing that media is spins duty.
16:41:54 <cwickert> it is even in the wiki in the description of FAmSCo's duties
16:41:57 <spot> cwickert: last time i checked, i was still an ambassador. ;)
16:42:02 <mizmo> cwickert, figure out what you want to be angry about, and let us know
16:42:17 <mizmo> be angry about the spin, or be angry about... the funding?
16:42:19 <cwickert> who's said I'm angry?
16:42:31 <mizmo> maybe the funding question could be addressed at the ambassadors list, and the spins concerns addressed on the spins list
16:42:34 * spot is happy to answer questions on SXSW in any forum.
16:42:47 <cwickert> thanks spot. I'm sorry, I need to catch a train now. I'll ask my questions again on the list and hope to get some answers there
16:42:47 <jreznik> mizmo: +1
16:43:52 <abadger1999> atm, all I'd like is that the thread that was previously opened have a status update that tells people that the issue isn't being ignored and the next step is that the board is going to sort out what happened and what the next step is to improve the situation.
16:43:52 * jsmith points out that the funding question was already answered publicly by Max at http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2011-March/017262.html
16:44:28 * ke4qqq will update that with the message that the board is discussing and will plan to give another status update after next weeks call if no one objects.
16:44:40 <abadger1999> ke4qqq: +1
16:44:40 <mizmo> jsmith++
16:44:42 <abadger1999> Thank you
16:44:58 <inode0> what happened is people got stuff done to make a great impression at an event - I say more power to them for that and hope others can do the same in the future
16:45:55 <jsmith> OK, anything else on this topic before we open up for general Q and A?
16:47:18 <jsmith> #info Please remember to use our IRC meeting protocol, as explained at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/IRC#General_Rules
16:47:44 <gholms|work> !
16:48:07 <jsmith> => gholms|work
16:48:07 <jreznik> ==> gholms|work
16:48:13 <gholms|work> Thanks for doing all the board-y stuff for us all.  :)
16:48:16 <gholms|work> eof
16:49:40 <Tac> ?
16:50:03 <jreznik> => Tac
16:50:07 <Tac> in #fedora, it's often suggested to set up your install with /home on it's own partition to make upgrading "easier".  Has it been discussed to make that an actual option on the install without the manual partition/etc work?  I run fedora on all machines for my business(~8), and it would probably make my life easier so upgrades don't take a weekend, so I would think it could be a benefit for others as well.
16:50:28 <jsmith> Tac: Great question...
16:50:29 <Tac> eof
16:50:44 <ke4qqq> Tac: not really a board issue, but that happens automagically if you have a disk greater than 50GB.
16:50:46 <jsmith> That's something that's probably better addressed by our Engineering Steering Committee (FESCo)
16:51:29 <Tac> ah, sorry then... I was looking in the rules as to what sort of topics were proper and didn't see anything
16:51:58 <jsmith> No problem... we're glad you asked!
16:52:32 <jjmcd_> !
16:52:39 <jreznik> => jjmcd_
16:52:42 <jjmcd_> I want to thank jsmith for mentioning the beats.  We get much higher quality prose when those the most familiar with the feature explan them.
16:52:44 <jjmcd_> eof
16:53:15 <jds2001> !
16:53:16 <jsmith> jjmcd_: I may not spend as much time helping the Docs team as I once did, but Docs is still very close to my heart :-)
16:53:27 <jjmcd_> ;-)
16:53:48 <jreznik> => jds2001
16:53:51 <jds2001> jjmcd_: is it not a requirement that feature owners write up release notes for their features?
16:53:57 <jds2001> eof
16:54:24 <jjmcd_> That is the expectation, but those relnotes are often omitted or m=not much more than a placeholder
16:54:43 <rbergeron> !
16:54:44 <jjmcd_> And lots change that aren't features
16:54:54 <jds2001> yeah, true.
16:55:03 <jreznik> => rbergeron
16:55:18 <rbergeron> jds2001: The spot for release notes in the feature pages is often filled with one line of very, very basic information. ie: What it is, and that's about it.
16:56:15 <jreznik> rbergeron: it's mostly to fulfill requirements to have release notes part filled...
16:56:43 <jreznik> sometimes it's not easy to write release notes before you have anything in hands and then ...
16:57:21 <rbergeron> jreznik: Yup.
16:57:45 * rbergeron notes that this will likely be part of looking at doing feature process overhaul if she ever gets a blog post out the door, Yargh :)
16:57:58 <jreznik> rbergeron: +1
16:59:46 <jreznik> any other Q/A?
17:01:16 <jreznik> ok, I think we can close it here, thanks all for coming today!
17:01:25 <Venemo> ?
17:01:42 <jreznik> last question => Venemo
17:02:20 <Venemo> what degree of Fedora branding or other changes (compared to upstream) will we see in F15's gnome-shell?
17:02:59 <spot> Venemo: a custom background and some Fedora icons
17:03:25 <jreznik> Venemo: this is not a question for board but for gnome/design team
17:03:31 <smooge> Venemo, not sure  that is really something the Board deals with.
17:03:53 <Venemo> sorry
17:04:10 <abadger1999> Doesn't hurt to ask :-)
17:05:09 <jreznik> Venemo: np, at least we can point you to the right team :)
17:05:13 <sparch> ksplice will work with F15 the same way with F14 ?
17:05:15 <smooge> sorry I didn't mean to sound that grumpy. I should have phrased that better
17:05:45 <jds2001> we're going to end almost on time? beefy miracle :D
17:05:49 <Venemo> I think this is important, becasue the gnome design team's decisions on some stuff make Gnome 3's usability less. I mean, ask anyone on #fedora-qa who tried F15 how they like the hidden minimize/maximize buttons and the also hidden shutdown button.
17:06:30 <Venemo> how is a newcomer supposed to know that s/he has to press alt in that menu? sorry if I'm offtopic here.
17:06:34 <ke4qqq> Venemo: we typically adopt what upstream does - makes for a better experience, we typically only brand a bit different. (see the nautilus decions of releases past)
17:06:45 <jreznik> Venemo: it's really out of borad scope, you should talk to fedora gnome devs
17:06:51 <ke4qqq> jreznik: +1
17:07:26 <Venemo> jreznik, can you point me to the relevant channel and/or people?
17:08:00 <jsmith> Venemo: I'd suggest #fedora-desktop on the GIMPnet IRC network
17:08:09 <rbergeron> venemo: there should also be some documentaqtion as to expected behaviors, etc, here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Desktop
17:08:20 <rbergeron> which helps newcomers, etc.
17:08:21 <jreznik> jsmith: it's mostly empty channel :(
17:08:29 <jsmith> jreznik: Not in my experience
17:08:34 <hircus_work> ?
17:08:37 <jsmith> jreznik: I've found answers to several questions there
17:08:53 <jsmith> (and there's always #gnome-shell on that same network)
17:09:12 <jreznik> jsmith: ah, sorry GIMPnet
17:09:15 <Venemo> rbergeron, newcomers usally don't start reading wikis.
17:09:45 <jsmith> jreznik: Yeah, the Gnome folks use that instead of Freenode
17:09:46 <rbergeron> Venemo: I'm merely offering it as a point of interest.
17:10:45 <Venemo> rbergeron, I understand, but. imagine that you want to introduce a friend of yours who has only seen Windows to Fedora. you give him a Live CD. he tries it. but he won't be able to find even the shutdown button without reading a wiki. is that right?
17:11:01 <Venemo> jsmith, the guys at #gnome-shell think that it's a good idea to hide features and they also believe that "discoverability is overrated". that's what they said when I asked them.
17:12:03 <rbergeron> venemo: If I give a live CD to a friend, I'll probably stick around and help them.
17:12:06 <rbergeron> But that aside,
17:12:14 <jsmith> Venemo: I'm still not sure that's a topic for the Fedora Board to decide.  I hate to put it that bluntly, but that's a technical decision, not a strategic decision.
17:12:23 <jreznik> Venemo: I expect it's still possible to set it up manually, otherwise we have other spins :)
17:12:24 <rbergeron> Nobody here hsi accountable for what decisions have been made upstream.
17:12:59 <rbergeron> Offering easy-to-find documentation and calling it out prominently is a good start.
17:13:28 <Venemo> yeah. I know it wasn't your decision
17:13:30 <jds2001> so I've been thinking about writing a blog post, but not got around to it. I'm not a KDE guy. But from an outsiders perspective (to KDE) it seems that this is very much what happened when KDE4 was introduced.
17:13:31 <rbergeron> Even if that means printing a few extra lines on CD covers, etc, for people who are really newcomers (vs. people who download)
17:13:31 <jsmith> Venemo: (I'll also point out in passing that some of those features can be turned on/off via gsettings)
17:13:44 <Venemo> jsmith, some of them, yes
17:13:55 <jds2001> over time, through iterations, KDE4 has gotten *much* better
17:14:00 <hircus_work> Venemo: gnome-tweak-tool let you tweak most of the issues you mentioned
17:14:17 <ke4qqq> jds2001: thats my perception too, most people don't like massive change.
17:14:38 <jds2001> I really think we're on a similar trajectory here.
17:15:38 <jsmith> I'm old enough to remember the move to Gnome 2.x... and it was painful, but it was worth it
17:15:52 <jreznik> jds2001: of course - release early, release often... people were complaining about missing features in panel so aseigo had to implement it later... /me understands gnome 3 as base for future development
17:17:54 <jreznik> it'll will just take a few years... as we know from KDE...
17:18:02 <jds2001> no one is denying that  there will be pain. But the key is learning from that pain and moving on.
17:18:12 * rbergeron wonders if having a small flyer/handout available at conference for folks along the lines of "getting started with Fedora/GNOME3" might be a good idea.
17:18:21 <herlo> yes!
17:18:26 <jsmith> WORKSFORME
17:18:27 <herlo> rbergeron: +3
17:18:28 <jds2001> rbergeron: sounds awesome :)
17:18:37 * rbergeron hopes she didn't just throw herself under a bus
17:18:45 <jsmith> Most of the material could probably be gleaned from the Gnome 3 cheat sheet
17:18:50 <herlo> rbergeron: I will help you, since i need to learn it too :)
17:18:59 <jds2001> rbergeron: i see a 55-seater headed right towards you :D
17:18:59 <herlo> jsmith: yes, good cheat sheet too
17:20:37 <jsmith> OK, shall we wrap up the meeting?
17:20:45 <jreznik> ok, I think we are now in too technical details - let's wrap up this meeting (and move to #fedora probably?)
17:21:04 <herlo> jreznik: too noisy
17:21:19 <Venemo> yeah. sorry for bringing it up, but I thought it deserved discussioun. :)
17:21:23 <jsmith> or #fedora-advisory-board
17:21:26 <hircus_work> ?
17:21:37 <jreznik> herlo: or continue here but I'd like to see it out of this meeting :)
17:21:50 <jsmith> => hircus_work
17:21:55 * herlo likes jsmith's suggestion
17:21:56 <jreznik> hircus_work: really very last question :)
17:22:03 <hircus_work> is there a reason #fedora-desktop is in GimpNet and not Freenode?
17:22:12 * hircus_work promises this is the last question
17:22:16 * jds2001 has to get lunch before his 2PM if possible :D
17:22:41 * herlo puts a fork in this meeting
17:22:48 <jds2001> hircus_work: because upstream gnome discussion happens there.
17:22:52 <jds2001> aiui
17:23:14 <hircus_work> jds2001: ah, and we're a GNOME-default distro. ok
17:23:18 <jreznik> jds2001: has to shop by 8 PM local :)
17:23:29 <jreznik> ok, I'll have to end it here :D
17:23:43 <jreznik> thanks for questions :)
17:23:45 <jreznik> #endmeeting