<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:01:09
!startmeeting F45-blocker-review
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:01:10
Meeting started at 2026-09-21 16:01:09 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:01:10
The Meeting name is 'F45-blocker-review'
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:01:16
!topic Roll Call
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:01:22
!hi
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:01:23
who's around for blocker fun?
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:01:24
Brandon Nielsen: Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
<@jlinton:fedora.im>
16:01:24
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:01:25
Jeremy Linton: Jeremy Linton (jlinton)
<@jgroman:fedora.im>
16:01:35
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:01:35
Jaroslav Groman: Jaroslav Groman (jgroman)
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
16:01:47
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:01:48
Derek Enz: Derek Enz (derekenz)
<@boniboyblue:fedora.im>
16:02:04
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:02:05
Christopher Boni: Christopher Boni (boniboyblue)
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:02:47
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:02:51
Kamil Páral: Kamil Páral (kparal) - he / him / his
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:03:39
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:03:40
adamw: Adam Williamson (adamwill) - he / him / his
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:03:41
how's everyone doing?
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:04:15
I am here
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:04:20
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:04:20
Lukáš Růžička: Lukáš Růžička (lruzicka) - he / him / his
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:24
alright, let's do some boilerplate
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!topic Introduction
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
Why are we here?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!info Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!info We'll be following the process outlined at:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!info The bugs up for review today are available at:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!link http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!info The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Basic_Release_Criteria
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_45_Beta_Release_Criteria
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:40
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_45_Final_Release_Criteria
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:55
!info for Final, we have:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:56
!info 5 Proposed Blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:05:56
!info 1 Accepted Blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:00
!info 3 Proposed Freeze Exceptions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:00
!info 6 Accepted Freeze Exceptions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:23
(those counts are a bit off as I didn't quite finish my ticket sweep before top of the hour, so there are actually fewer proposals we need to worry about)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:40
who wants to secretarialize?
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:06:46
I do
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:07:58
thanks!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:06
!info Lukáš Růžička will secretarialize
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:10
let's get started with:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:16
!topic Proposed Final blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:35
!topic (2536815) dnf command not available in kickstart, f45 netboot installer
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:35
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2536815
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:35
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/blocker-review/issues/2185
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:35
!info Proposed Blocker, lorax, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:35
!info Ticket vote: BetaBlocker (+0,0,-1) (-boniboyblue)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:35
!info Ticket vote: FinalBlocker (+0,0,-2) (-boniboyblue, -nielsenb)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:09
hmm, this is pretty corner case-y
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:10:10
I find this use case fascinating
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:15
me too, but it's hard to block on
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:30
I don't *think* we've ever had a stated intention of providing a functional CLI package manager in the installer environment?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:51
i might ask the *old* installer folks actually
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:10:51
I don't either, but it feels strange there wouldn't be...?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:06
i mean...the installer has done it via the python bindings for a long time
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:22
offhand i'm not sure why dnf4 is *there* at all, probably weird dep stuff? would have to look into it a bit
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:30
Brian Lane is probably a person to ask about this, let me see if I can find him
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:11:37
Yup, I found that bizarre too
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:12:09
I'm personally annoyed that dnf/rpm is not available in netinst env. However, I see no grounds for a blocker here.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:08
i've pinged bcl to see if he can provide any perspective
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:20
i lean -1 on this but it might be worth a one week punt at least to try and pick some brains
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:13:23
Netinst never had these tools (maybe not never, but at least for a decade)
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:14:23
+1 punticello
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:15:55
Kamil Páral the bug report seems to suggest they've been using this to work around an old bug, though? so...how would that have worked if dnf wasn't in the image?
<@jlinton:fedora.im>
16:17:44
Right, the thing they are working around sounds pretty blockery because it can't setup the existing encrypted home.
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:18:23
interesting, there really are dnf3 and dnf4 in F43/44 netinst
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:18:27
eh, i mean, i don't think it's blockery
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:18:42
but rpm is not there. How can that even work without rpm?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:18:53
for me it's -1FB
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:19:23
i think it's the same deal one level down, dnf doesn't call rpm, it uses rpm bindings?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:19:45
i do kinda feel punt-y just to work out all the angles
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:19:48
but expecting to be -1 in the end
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:19:50
other thoughts?
<@jlinton:fedora.im>
16:20:18
Does that mean the original bug then becomes the blocker, unable to install a machine using an existing encrypted /home filesystem?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:20:28
ok, dnf3 is actually present even in F33 netinst. Still without rpm, though.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:21:44
I don't think that's the bug, no.
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:21:53
the original bug had no effort from the reporter to communicate with the installer team
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:09
you *can* install a machine using an existing encrypted fs. but they were trying to do stuff to it before the installer had a chance to offer to unlock it
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:22:13
if you mean https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2019455
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:15
(by the looks of it)
<@jlinton:fedora.im>
16:22:22
"We need dnf to work around the "Unlocked LUKS" limitation (bug 2019455). We are using a LUKS-encrypted home partition, and without the workaround, bug 2019455 would make it impossible to avoid data loss, when recovering a broken system by reinstallation."
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:38
they are trying to do stuff to the encrypted home partition in %pre, aiui
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:58
but this is the sort of thing i was planning to ask about
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:23:40
if it's true you can't reinstall and reuse an encrypted /home that *may* be worth discussing? but, separate topic
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:26:18
so far we've got one -1 and two punts
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:26:27
anyone else care to venture an opinion? :D
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:26:37
I would be okay transitioning to punt, just because I would love to know more
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
16:26:42
Punt
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:26:56
and -2 in the ticket
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:27:12
I'm fine with punting
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:28:24
let's go with punt
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:29:21
+1 puntissimus
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:29:33
proposed !agreed 2536815 - punt (delay decision) - we suspect this will turn out rejected, but we'd like to ask the current and former installer teams whether use of dnf from the installer environment is/has ever been intended/supported, and look more into the issue the reporter is trying to work around, before making a final decision
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:29:44
ack
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
16:29:46
ack
<@jgroman:fedora.im>
16:29:54
ack
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:29:56
ack
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:30:07
ack
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:30:08
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:30:11
Conan Kudo 😌: Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:30:11
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:30:22
!agreed 2536815 - punt (delay decision) - we suspect this will turn out rejected, but we'd like to ask the current and former installer teams whether use of dnf from the installer environment is/has ever been intended/supported, and look more into the issue the reporter is trying to work around, before making a final decision
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:30:24
hi conan
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:30:28
It would be hard to configure repositories properly in kickstart without dnf
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:30:42
especially since we _still_ don't have a way to declare repo priorities or gpg keys in ks repo stanzas
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:31:08
that's the only thing I can think of where dnf itself needs to be on the netinst iso
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:31:47
there's a three digit rbhz for the gpg thing
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:31:50
that should work without access to keys for existing repos, right?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:32:00
989 isn't it? something with 8s and 9s...
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:32:04
there's a three digit rhbz for the gpg thing
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:32:09
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/998
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:32:15
!bug 998
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:32:18
RHBZ#998 (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/998): [anaconda]: Network install/upgrade is unsafe, should check GPG signatures.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:32:42
Anaconda is currently the only installer in use today that doesn't verify signatures for defined repositories
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:32:55
let's not get into that right now
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:32:56
Anaconda is currently the only Linux installer in use today that doesn't verify signatures for defined repositories
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:06
!topic (2537341) oo7-portal not installed by default after upgrading to f45
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:06
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2537341
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:06
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/blocker-review/issues/2186
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:06
!info Proposed Blocker, oo7, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:06
!info Ticket vote: FinalBlocker (+3,0,-0) (+poc, +catanzaro, +nielsenb)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:33:24
oo7-portal should probably supplement xdp
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:33:31
it's an easy fix
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:33:49
are weak dependencies enough here?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:34:09
yup
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:34:20
they are evaluated by default and activated
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:34:39
they won't fix existing installed/upgraded systems, but upgrades to 45 and new installs will be fixed
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:35:22
we can also make it so xdp-gnome requires oo7 (which it should do anyway since it carries the config snippet for it)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:35:26
we can also make it so xdp-gnome requires oo7 (which it should do anyway since it carries the config snippet for it for gnome)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:35:34
we can also make it so xdp-gnome requires oo7-portal (which it should do anyway since it carries the config snippet for it for gnome)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:35:55
both are required for a "broad" fix
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:36:09
sure, +1
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
16:36:31
+1
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:37:10
is this some new portal? Since this is the first time I hear about it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:37:19
yes
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:37:22
it's a new portal
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:37:34
thre's a Change
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:37:39
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/oo7_Secrets_Service_Provider
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:37:53
it's the gnome-keyring replacement ... and the one reason why I'm not in a hurry to upgrade my desktop to F45 :D
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:37:54
"James Bond went on a new mission and this time as a Secret Service provider." is a pretty dumb description of a project
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:38:22
not my monkey, for now, not my circus
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:38:41
not my monkey, and for now, not my circus
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:38:44
well, SecretService *is* the name of the DBus interface ...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:38:50
it's a pun, haha, we all love puns right
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:38:55
i'm sure Lukáš Růžička is a fan
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:39:05
I love puns, yes, but... sigh
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:39:16
admittedly I did this when I named kurchu, so I'm guilty of this too
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:39:20
so how come other stuff works, just the one flatpak app doesn't?
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:39:32
Yeah, I am a total fan. I create such strong winds that my houshold flies all around :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:39:38
i would assume various other things don't work in this case, that's just the one the reporter noticed?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:39:49
almost certainly
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:40:03
not sure how many things properly *use* that portal yet
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:40:07
The joke is good, if you understand it. But if you don't, then you have no idea what the hell it is.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:40:16
I suspect not many
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:40:22
I have ran headlong into some secrets issue with Fedora_45_Branched_20260921.n.0, but I don't *think* its this
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:40:25
but it will change over time
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:40:27
But I can't configure WiFi
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:40:31
well, anything that uses the dbus interface has to be using it
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:40:41
it provides the dbus interface that was previously provided by gnome-keyring
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:40:47
unless they bridge the real dbus interface
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:40:54
then they don't need the portal
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:40:56
F45 has gnome-keyring installed
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:40:58
and a fair number of apps used to do that
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:41:10
But I need 007 to save me, because "there's no agents available for this request"
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:41:15
only upgrades. not fresh installs, I think
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:41:21
(that might need to be fixed, too ...)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:41:29
it's not supposed to be present on fresh installs...
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:41:30
fresh installs as well
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:41:33
ugh
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:41:34
Beta at least
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:41:38
well I guess there's more cleaning to do
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:41:41
beta is too old
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
16:41:54
gnome 51.rc only landed after beta
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:41:56
Seahorse works just fine there
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:42:00
oh right, it was fixed in the g51 megaupdate
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:42:28
well, only one can provide the dbus interface
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:42:37
you can check which is doing it by looking at systemd user session services
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:43:06
I guess I'll install the latest nightly first
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:43:24
anyway, if oo7 is supposed to replace gnome-keyring-daemon, then I guess I can be +1 FB
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:25
aaaanyhooo
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:43:33
if it's currently broken
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:44:57
yes oo7-daemon replaces gkd
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:45:57
ok, so if nobody is -1, we have +3 in the ticket, so
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:46:15
I remain +1
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:46:37
+1
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:46:45
proposed !agreed 2537341 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a violation of "Saving passwords to and retrieving passwords from the default keyring must work for all release-blocking desktops" for upgraded systems
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:46:55
ack
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
16:46:57
ack
<@jgroman:fedora.im>
16:47:28
ack
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:47:37
ack
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:47:56
ack
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:48:37
acl
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:48:45
!agreed 2537341 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a violation of "Saving passwords to and retrieving passwords from the default keyring must work for all release-blocking desktops" for upgraded systems
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:48:58
!topic (2448283) Selecting a non-ASCII capable keyboard layout should automatically also select US English as a second layout
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:48:58
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2448283
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:48:58
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/blocker-review/issues/2132
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:48:58
!info Proposed Blocker, plasma-setup, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:48:58
!info Ticket vote: FinalBlocker (+3,1,-1) (+panayang, +lruzicka, +boniboyblue, nielsenb, -augenauf)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:48:58
!info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+2,0,-0) (+panayang, +augenauf)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:49:13
context: this was accepted as a blocker for F44, waived for release, so deferred automatically to F45
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:49:53
having looked at it again, though, i decided to kick it back for revoting as I think it's substantially less significant now https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2453216 is fixed
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:21
i just don't think there will be a ton of cases of people explicitly clicking should-be-switched layouts on this page, now pre-selection works correctly
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:51:38
so i'm kinda inclined to say we can live with it now. at least it would almost certainly wind up getting waived again...
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:52:28
I'm fine with dropping it from the list. The actual fixes will require lot of time and work anyway, and at least the most common path works now.
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:52:42
There be will cases when people select non-latin keyboard which might prevent password creation and various stuff.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:53:35
when do you think people will do that?
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:53:55
If I select the the Russian language and it comes with cyrillic layout? How do I type in username and password properly?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:54:23
if you select Russian during install, then when you hit this page after install, it now shows Russian *pre-selected*, and if you leave it alone and just click next, everything works
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:54:47
so the username will be written in cyrillic?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:54:51
things only break if you actually click on a layout on the plasma-setup screen (i'm not sure whether it breaks if you click on the pre-selected layout)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:54:52
no
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:55:17
if you leave the page alone, you have a correct configuration (passed through from anaconda) with latin as the default layout and cyrillic as switched
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:55:34
you only get a broken configuration if you explicitly click "Russian" on the plasma-setup keyboard layout selection page
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:55:36
ok, and that's not what the bug here is about?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:55:59
the way you could still break things is to e.g. install in English, then click Russian on the plasma-setup layout page
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:56:12
or install in Russian, then when you reach the plasma-setup layout page, click some other layout, then click Russian again
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:56:26
if you do something like that, you get the broken state. but i just think that is quite unlikely
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:56:30
This is probably not very likely ... that people want to do it
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
16:57:03
I'd say drop
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:57:05
(note for clarity: we tend to use "Russian" as a standard example here, but all of this applies to all "switched" languages, e.g. Greek, Hebrew etc etc)
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
16:57:47
If the system works like you just described even when this bug is -1FB or unproposed, I am fine with it.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:58:12
you can test for yourself if you want to check :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:58:21
openQA does test it now, though
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:58:29
the "straight through russian install on KDE live" path
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:59:41
so I'm -1, lukas changes to -1, that means we're at -3, +2
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:00:01
Christopher Boni is one of the +1s, are you willing to be persuaded? :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:00:03
anyone else have a vote?
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:00:09
Sounds like a plan for tomorrow morning :D
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:00:16
+ means keep, - means drop right?
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:00:26
element that was a plus
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:00:30
Lukáš Růžička I mean some manual messing about is a good idea, see if you can find a "plausible" path where this still causes trouble
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:00:46
I probably have tunnel vision on it at this point so it'd be good to have fresh eyes
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:12
🇵🇱 | Nik Nikovsky +1 is "yes, blocker", -1 is "no, not blocker"
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:01:23
-1 from me then (if it counts)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:41
sure, we take votes from anyone then pass them through a highly sophisticated, AI-powered weighting system
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:01
(AI stands for "Adam Invents")
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:02:07
Patent Pending (R)
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:02:27
doesn't it mean Actual Indians? jk
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:04:07
alright, if we have no other votes, we'll punt i guess
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:05:10
I'm counted as -1?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:27
oh, I don't think so, I missed your vote
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:05:30
I remain 0, like Switzerland
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:05:36
-1 FB then
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:05:54
0 FB
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:06:21
in principle, I think it should be fixed, but... for now the risk is low enough
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:06:34
ok, i think that gives us a -3 total, so:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:07:44
proposed !agreed 2448283 - RejectedBlocker (Final) - this is a conditional violation of the "Keyboard layout configuration" criterion on KDE live installs for switched layouts, but we agreed the likely impact is limited as pre-selection is now fixed so most folks will just click through the screen, which works OK
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:07:56
ack
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
17:07:59
ack
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:08:07
ack
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:08:23
CommonBugs, too?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:08:32
(this will technically become a problem once Framework starts selling keyboards with non-Latin layouts)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:08:35
that doesn't need agreeing here
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:08:37
(this will technically become a problem again once Framework starts selling keyboards with non-Latin layouts)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:08:42
anyone can just throw the CommonBugs keyword at a bug
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:08:50
ok
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:09:02
it's already a common bug
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:05
aha
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:09:06
but it might need updates
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:13
yeah we may need to rewrite it abit
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:18
!agreed 2448283 - RejectedBlocker (Final) - this is a conditional violation of the "Keyboard layout configuration" criterion on KDE live installs for switched layouts, but we agreed the likely impact is limited as pre-selection is now fixed so most folks will just click through the screen, which works OK
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:09:21
and someone who wants to write them
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:29
fiiiine
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:39
i'll definitely do it, like i definitely did all the other things I was going to do
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:09:43
kparal has already given cookies to adamwill during the F44 timeframe
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:09:52
niknikovsky has already given cookies to adamwill during the F44 timeframe
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:09:57
ok, that's all the proposed blockers
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:08
!info that's all proposed blockers, let's move on to:
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:23
!topic Proposed Final freeze exceptions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:28
!topic (2530897) F45 grub boot fails with "invalid magic number" when installed to FW RAID multiple times from GTK installer
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:28
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2530897
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:28
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/blocker-review/issues/2175
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:28
!info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, anaconda, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:28
!info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+3,0,-0) (+kparal, +lruzicka, +nielsenb)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:46
sure, +1 FE in principle, obviously can't be fixed with an update
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:49
anyone -1?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:11:59
nah
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:12:05
+1 FE sounds reasonable
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:12:14
the gtk installer is dead next cycle though
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:12:19
so I don't think it'll get fixed
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:12:51
+1 FE
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:12:57
it's probably in the storage code which is shared
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:13:10
Also the GTK installer is like the full screen version or anaconda?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:13:46
🇵🇱 | Nik Nikovsky anaconda is all the installers. it has a backend and several frontends. the older one you see on network install images is called 'gtkui'. the newer one you see on live images is called 'webui'.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:14:08
(ok fine there's also the coreos installer which is something else)
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:14:17
yeah, when I said "full screen" I meant the older one that is/was present on the fedora everything ISO
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:14:43
there's a fullscreen webui mode too
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:14:50
proposed !agreed 2530897 - AcceptedFreezeException (Final) - this is accepted as an installer bug with significant consequences for anyone who runs into it, which clearly can't be fixed with an update
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:14:52
so it's not clear from "fullscreen" what you're talking about
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:15:00
ack
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:15:00
ack
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:15:01
ack
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:15:02
HTTP 200
<@m4rtink:fedora.im>
17:15:09
The Atomic desktops run in full screen & use the Web UI in F45. :)
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:15:16
ack
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:15:21
Fedora 38 installer
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
17:15:46
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:15:57
!agreed 2530897 - AcceptedFreezeException (Final) - this is accepted as an installer bug with significant consequences for anyone who runs into it, which clearly can't be fixed with an update
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:16:24
!topic (2533661) cockpit-machines pulls too many desktop dependencies via qemu-char-spice dep
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:16:24
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2533661
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:16:24
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/blocker-review/issues/2178
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:16:24
!info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, cockpit-machines, NEW, depends on other bugs
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:16:24
!info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+1,1,-0) (+zbyszek, nielsenb)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:16:36
I don't think this is a real bug
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:17:05
it's kind of a bs bug
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:17:05
It might be an inconvience on machines with low storage
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:17:14
yeah that's unlikely for servers
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:17:19
and even then, it's not _that_ much
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:17:40
I'd say -1 on this one as it does not affect the general public
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:18:31
With no specific harm cited, I don't really see a path to +1 for me
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:18:42
I'm barely at 0 if I'm being honest
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:18:56
well, the harm is a bunch of "unwanted" (if you don't want 3D passthrough support, I guess?) packages installed
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:18:57
-1 for me
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:18:58
flip a coin and see
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:19:04
i'm 0 on it I guess
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:19:14
yeah, that's why I'm -1, it's such a bad reason
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:19:17
~250MiB is not that much, it seems like one Shakespeare's play. And it's not the Scottish one.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:19:21
they can change it before freeze if they like, i wouldn't yell
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:19:29
cockpit-machines ability to do passthrough would just be broken by default
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:19:35
I always have a bunch of unwanted package, but they're pretty out of sight, out of mind
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:19:38
which is a bad outcome
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:19:43
man I remember getting a 210MB hard disk and thinking it was huge
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:19:56
as do I :)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:19:59
Conan Kudo 😌 you'd better complain upstream, then, if you didn't already
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:20:00
we're old
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:20:08
My first HDD was 60 MB IIRC
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:20:13
https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit-machines/pull/2279
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:20:29
A game was 500kB
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:20:47
the smallest steam game I own is probably 50MB at msot
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:21:02
commented
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:21:08
the 210MB was an upgrade from 40MB. before that...uhh...we had a pair of like 5MB ones for an Apple ][ I think, unless I just dreamed that? not sure if there was something in the middle. oh, we had an XT so that must've had...something...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:21:21
anyhoo
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:21:26
I never had a HDD for my ][s
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:21:45
started with IBM PC XT and went to weird random garage sale 286s and 386s until my Gateway 2000 P1 133 system
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:21:52
I also went straight from a ][ to a Pentium 90
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:22:09
that Gateway was my PC until ~2002
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:22:10
proposed !agreed 2533661 - RejectedFreezeException (Final) - this is rejected as it seems like a minor and somewhat-debated change that wouldn't really be appropriate in a freeze
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:22:17
ack
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:22:19
HTTP 200
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:22:24
got a colorful Compaq Presario P4 desktop
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:22:27
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:22:28
i might be remembering wrong, i was pretty young then
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:22:29
ack
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
17:22:45
ack
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:23:03
They existed, but I never saw them anywhere but magazines
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:23:18
wikipedia says I am, as there wasn't a hard disk for the apple ][ apparently. so i'm probably remembering something from the XT
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:23:45
wikipedia says I am, as there wasn't originally a hard disk for the apple ][ apparently and I don't think we had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_ProFile . so i'm probably remembering something from the XT
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:23:55
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Disk_20SC
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:18
yeah we didn't get anything that late
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:22
aaanyhoo
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:41
!topic (2535835) Ctrl+Alt+F1 results in black or frozen screen on F45 KDE Desktop
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:41
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2535835
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:41
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/blocker-review/issues/2184
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:41
!info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, plasma-login-manager, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:41
!info Ticket vote: FinalFreezeException (+3,0,-0) (+kparal, +derekenz, +nielsenb)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:46
oh gah
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:24:51
!undo
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:25:07
still doesn't work? sigh
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:25:15
!info forgot to agreed the previous bug, going back
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:25:15
never added iirc
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:25:28
!topic (2533661) cockpit-machines pulls too many desktop dependencies via qemu-char-spice dep
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:25:39
!agreed 2533661 - RejectedFreezeException (Final) - this is rejected as it seems like a minor and somewhat-debated change that wouldn't really be appropriate in a freeze
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:25:56
!topic (2535835) Ctrl+Alt+F1 results in black or frozen screen on F45 KDE Desktop
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:26:01
ok, so, this one
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:26:17
how would this make sense
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:26:30
I can try to reproduce it
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:26:57
This is not even implemented upstream, there's no chance this will get fixed before Final
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:27:00
it's sort of like doing a user switch, I guess?
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:27:20
yeah, but tty1 is the main terminal, right?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:27:36
if it's not a trivial thing to implement upstream i'd be -1 to an FE
<@jgroman:fedora.im>
17:27:43
plasma-login-manager takes tty1 for itself
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:27:45
I think it is the login manager.
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:27:51
hmm
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:27:54
KDE and GNOME both put their login managers on tty1
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:28:00
upstream bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=521006
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:28:02
let me flip a coin on this one.
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:28:48
-1FE, coin landed on tails
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:28:55
I'm +1 in general, but it might be just easiest to withdraw the nomination
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:29:10
it's not going to be ready anyway
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:29:39
I'm fine with -1 as well 😄
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:40
if this requires substantial plumbing it doesn't feel like the right sort of thing to pull in in a freeze, could easily break something else
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:29:50
I am +1 and it is not compulsory anyway, is it?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:55
i was -1 based on the nature of the problem/fix, not the likelihood of one showing up
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:30:10
What Adam says makes sense
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:30:11
your vote is currently the decisive one
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:30:24
not compulsory, no, but i think we should rejecte FEs if we're pretty sure the fix would be inappropriate during a freeze
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:30:28
Yeah, I change to FinalFE -1
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:30:40
I change my vote to -1, because this seems like a more involved change than originally thought
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:30:42
Feels like it has the risk of breaking other things
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:30:43
"accept but re-evaluate when pulling in" is more for the case where we don't really know what the fix will look like yet
<@jgroman:fedora.im>
17:31:23
I am -1 FinalFE as it seems that this won't be fixed anytime soon.
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:31:38
-1 FinalFE because of the attached message
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:32:37
proposed !agreed 2535835 - RejectedFreezeException (Final) - this is rejected as the upstream issue discussion suggests this requires substantial work upstream, and such a change would not be appropriate to pull in during a freeze to fix a comparatively minor issue, given the risk of breaking something more important
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:32:42
ack
<@jgroman:fedora.im>
17:32:44
ack
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:32:48
ack
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:32:52
HTTP 200
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
17:33:43
ack
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:33:48
!agreed 2535835 - RejectedFreezeException (Final) - this is rejected as the upstream issue discussion suggests this requires substantial work upstream, and such a change would not be appropriate to pull in during a freeze to fix a comparatively minor issue, given the risk of breaking something more important
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:34:00
!topic Accepted Final blocker review
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:34:18
!info we will check in on the state of accepted blockers, not re-vote them (unless a specific reason to re-vote appears)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:34:29
!topic (2535534) Some items in the Gnome Quick Settings menu do not work as expected.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:34:29
!link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2535534
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:34:29
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/quality/blocker-review/issues/2183
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:34:29
!info Accepted Blocker, gnome-shell, NEW
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:35:08
oh, this one. we got about a zillion reports of this
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:35:23
gitlab issues for this are closed?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:35:34
they're all ultimately dupes of https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/work_items/9396
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:35:40
including both mine and lukas'
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:36:07
that was fixed with https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/merge_requests/4391
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:36:28
if it's fixed, maybe remove it as a blocker?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:36:30
so the bug is just about downstreaming that
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:36:33
it's fixed *upstream*
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:37:23
The blocker status enables the fix to be pulled in during freeze.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:37:43
i think https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2026-48a7996f9c should be marked as fixing this
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:37:44
just let me check
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:38:09
yeah, commit is in 51.0
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:39:08
so I guess blocker for now, moving on?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:39:19
!info this was fixed upstream in 51.0, so it should be fixed in F45 with https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2026-48a7996f9c , we have marked that update as fixing this bug
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:39:48
🇵🇱 | Nik Nikovsky the point of this part of the meeting is to check in on the accepted blockers and see if we need to or can do anything to nudge them along, it's not about discussing their...blockeriness
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:40:14
understood
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:40:23
ok, that was the last one
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:40:25
!topic Open floor
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:40:27
any other business, folks?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:40:43
nothing here
<@derekenz:fedora.im>
17:40:54
Nothing for now
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:40:56
Not from me
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:41:19
I might be looking for some Fedora work tomorrow
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:41:30
nothing else from me
<@lruzicka:fedora.im>
17:42:28
Nopey
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:43:21
alrighty, thanks for coming, everyone!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:43:34
!endmeeting