15:01:08 <samccann> #startmeeting Documentation Working Group aka DaWGs
15:01:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 24 15:01:08 2022 UTC.
15:01:08 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:08 <zodbot> The chair is samccann. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
15:01:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_working_group_aka_dawgs'
15:01:17 <samccann> #topic opening chatter
15:01:32 <samccann> @room Meeting time! Who is here to talk the docs?
15:01:42 <samccann> Raise your ascii hand (o/) to say hi or any other way you want to let us know you are here. And Welcome to any new folks!
15:02:03 <samccann> briantist: you around today for docs fun?
15:02:15 <felixfontein> I'm only a little bit around :)
15:02:35 <orandon[m]> o/ I'm here but have loads of meetings today so response times might vary 🙁
15:02:39 <samccann> heh I'll only make you a little chair... like a toddler chair felixfontein
15:02:51 <samccann> #chair Don Naro felixfontein
15:02:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Naro felixfontein samccann
15:03:21 <samccann> Official agenda is at https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/643#issuecomment-1129155338
15:03:42 <felixfontein> :)
15:04:12 <felixfontein> does zodbot now works with matrix names btw?
15:04:34 <samccann> I dunno - did you get a ping when I did the at room?
15:04:45 <samccann> (and was it an IRC ping or just a matrix ping)?
15:04:48 <felixfontein> on IRC I didn't (I'm on IRC right now)
15:04:59 <felixfontein> let me try something
15:05:02 <felixfontein> #unchair Naro
15:05:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don felixfontein samccann
15:05:25 <felixfontein> yeah, zodbot thinks that both IRC users "Don" and "Naro" are chairs :)
15:05:38 <felixfontein> orandon[m] is Don Naro, right?
15:05:41 <felixfontein> #unchair Don
15:05:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein samccann
15:05:44 <samccann> yep
15:05:45 <felixfontein> #chair orandon[m]
15:05:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein orandon[m] samccann
15:06:04 <felixfontein> that way zodbot should recognize Don Naro :)
15:06:21 <samccann> ok did I do something wrong earlier? I thought that's what I did
15:06:43 <orandon[m]> weird. I don't think I'm logged into IRC though.
15:06:53 * samccann ponders how many times we can ping Don Naro while he's multitasking meetings today
15:07:01 <felixfontein> orandon[m]: you're not, but there's a bridge between Matrix and IRC
15:07:36 <felixfontein> samccann: on IRC it looked like you typed "#chair Don Naro felixfontein"
15:07:53 <felixfontein> I wonder whether both looks identical on matrix... that would be really confusing :)
15:07:53 <samccann> ah interesting
15:08:04 <samccann> #chair
15:08:04 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein orandon[m] samccann
15:08:24 <samccann> yeah for me on matrix, I see it as one name (don naro) not as two names
15:08:40 <samccann> but it's kinda fascinating on irc that you can unchair  part of his name!
15:08:48 <samccann> ok anyway, time for some docs!
15:08:55 <samccann> #topic Documentation updates
15:09:01 <samccann> #info EOL for 2.9 and 2.10. Docs updates coming
15:09:35 <samccann> So that basically means changing the top level banner to say they are EOL, and to remove them from the version switchers.
15:10:23 <samccann> 2.9 as a RH 'supported' piece lingers a bit longer so I added a link to the RH support lifecycle etc.
15:10:44 <samccann> That brings us to a related topic...
15:10:54 <samccann> #topic Archive docsite
15:11:05 <samccann> #info will move older docsets to an archive site. At what point do we move more recent EOL docs over once it is set up? https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/78#issuecomment-1072535541
15:11:34 <samccann> So in that comment, I suggested a month after EOL, we remove the docs entirely and put them up on an archive site.
15:12:14 <samccann> I'm wondering if 'one month' is a little dramatic. Do folks have opinions on when, say, Ansible 5 should move to an archive site once it EOLs?
15:15:03 <samccann> #info looking for feedback on when we can migrate EOL docs to a separate archive site to improve google search results
15:15:56 <samccann> i'm thinking 6 months out might be a better target but we'll see if folks have an opinion on this or not
15:16:29 <samccann> the overall goal is to prevent search hits from bringing up ancient docs (lookin at you Ansible 2.3). But also keep a docset available
15:16:39 <samccann> somewhere for folks really still using these older releases
15:18:26 <samccann> #topic community writers
15:18:56 <samccann> So in the background, I've been working with a group of volunteer writers to see how we can integrate them into Ansible docs needs.
15:19:10 <samccann> Assuming I figure out the github project board, this is something that might be of interest to collection owners.
15:19:34 <samccann> The writers don't have ansible experience, but they can edit/comment on docs PRs for basics of grammar, readability etc.
15:19:42 <samccann> #info - working on a community docs project board to coordinate across a group of volunteer community writers
15:21:01 <samccann> #info always looking for help on the backlog - issues - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Adocs and PRs - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+label%3Adocs
15:21:29 <samccann> #topic doctools
15:22:58 <samccann> felixfontein: anything to update on this area? antsibull-doc changes?
15:23:10 <samccann> I feel like there's a PR somewhere but I haven't read it yet
15:24:14 <samccann> ah no, it's `antsibull-changelog` PR I saw - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/77871
15:25:23 <samccann> erm.. ok things have gotten quiet round here lol
15:25:29 <samccann> #topic Open Floor
15:25:37 <rawtaz> im watching. but have nothing good to say.
15:25:51 <samccann> Anyone have something else to chat about wrt docs that we haven't talked about yet? Fav PR or issue?
15:25:59 <samccann> hi rawtaz and welcome!
15:26:28 <samccann> you're welcome to add not-good things here about the docs if there's some place you feel we need to concentrate on/improve etc as well
15:26:50 <rawtaz> well if noone else has anything to say, as a beginner (although i dabbled with ansible a few years back) i must say that the menu in the docs is a but heavy. like if you open the traditional TOC, its a long list of items that might be good to divide into subheadings
15:27:29 <samccann> oh yeah whole-heartedly agree. We need serious work on the TOC/lefthand navigation and headings etc
15:27:42 <rawtaz> but i mean, it's workable. its no biggie :D
15:28:02 <samccann> Don Naro has some special skills in this area we hope to use later on this summer/fall I think/hope
15:28:24 <rawtaz> nice :)
15:28:51 <samccann> thanks rawtaz - it actually helps us to hear things like this. As writers, we can get .. ahem.. 'picky' about how things are written. It helps to know what we think needs serious work is what users also think needs serious work
15:29:28 <samccann> and comments are welcome in this channel at any time, not just meeting times btw. Always open for chatter on the docs
15:30:11 <samccann> #info - left hand navigation/user guide TOC etc is long and confusing. Needs some improvements to make it more welcoming/easier to find info for new and experienced users
15:30:16 <samccann> so we don't forget.
15:30:25 <samccann> #action samcann open an issue about user guide toc
15:30:36 <samccann> we might have an issue already ^^ but if not, time to create one
15:30:39 <rawtaz> i have another one, comment. as a beginner, going to https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/user_guide/index.html#getting-started felt rather pointless because what one would expect there is a step by step "do this and write this to get a super basic example up and running". instead there we only have a list of specifics to read more about
15:30:47 <rawtaz> its not really what one would expect a getting started to be :)
15:31:03 <samccann> :-)
15:31:17 <rawtaz> so maybe if there is some basic example lying around somewhere, it could be made more apparent or like linekd to or incorporated more, as the main thing in that getting started part
15:31:26 <rawtaz> ihavent gotten to the example yet so i dunno what there is
15:31:55 <samccann> it's Don Naro hero day!  he's working on an issue as we speak to revamp the getting started guide - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/77681
15:32:02 <samccann> for the reasons you mentioned.
15:32:18 <felixfontein> samccann: sorry, was busy debugging something :)
15:32:19 <samccann> Feel free to add a comment there for any other  thoughts/ideas you have about what the guide should be.
15:32:23 <rawtaz> OR, we could just put a link everywhere that says "go ask @sivel in #ansible on libera" :-)
15:32:33 <rawtaz> samccann: oh nice, good PR
15:32:35 <samccann> felixfontein: no worries
15:32:37 <rawtaz> err issue
15:32:56 <samccann> AAAHAHAHA omgosh yeah. Might save that one for next year's April Fools day!
15:33:06 <rawtaz> lol that would be awesome
15:34:01 <felixfontein> samccann: that PR is mainly updating the docs to the current state ;-) I guess for the core changelog part, sivel should take a look (he requested that on another changelog related change in the past)
15:34:20 <samccann> felixfontein: ok thanks!
15:34:57 <samccann> do we have other docs topics to chat about today?
15:36:04 <felixfontein> not that I know of :)
15:36:30 <samccann> hah okay early end today!
15:36:34 <samccann> #endmeeting