14:31:19 <acozine> #startmeeting DaWGs aka Docs Working Group
14:31:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 25 14:31:19 2020 UTC.
14:31:19 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:31:19 <zodbot> The chair is acozine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:31:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:31:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'dawgs_aka_docs_working_group'
14:31:33 <acozine> who's around?
14:32:06 <samccann> me!
14:32:19 <acozine> #chair samccann
14:32:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine samccann
14:32:22 <samccann> cbudz has a meeting conflict today
14:32:31 <acozine> bummer!
14:33:02 <acozine> 2020 Agenda for this meeting is: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/521
14:33:22 * gundalow is here for 10 minutes or so
14:33:26 <acozine> #chair gundalow
14:33:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine gundalow samccann
14:33:40 <acozine> gundalow: you get to be furniture, even for ten minutes
14:33:45 <acozine> today's agenda is https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/521#issuecomment-587532379
14:33:48 <gundalow> woot
14:33:56 <acozine> plus https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/521#issuecomment-590491250
14:34:33 <acozine> plus, any topics that are not listed there can be raised during the Open Floor
14:35:12 <acozine> I think I'll reorder the list, leaving status updates for closer to the end
14:35:18 <samccann> wanna start with the contributor summit since gundalow is here?
14:35:24 <acozine> good idea
14:35:33 <acozine> #topic contributor summit Europe
14:35:59 <samccann> #info details at https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/521#issuecomment-590491250
14:36:25 <gundalow> #info The next Ansible Contributors Summit is Sunday, 29th March. And we will have a hackathon on BOTH the Monday & Tuesday. in Gothenburg, Sweden
14:36:42 <gundalow> #info Contributors Summit and hackathon will be available online as well
14:36:46 <acozine> gundalow: will core be unfrozen by then?
14:37:00 <acozine> or will the hackathon focus on collections?
14:38:14 <gundalow> acozine: good question. Given current data, Devel should be unfrozen and collections should be up and running.
14:38:29 <gundalow> I expect a lot to be getting started with Collections
14:38:53 <acozine> it seems like a good time to be getting the community together
14:39:00 <gundalow> Yup :)
14:39:27 * gundalow stands up and exits stage right
14:39:33 <acozine> pursued by a bear?
14:39:37 <samccann> heh
14:39:41 <acozine> (sorry, couldn't resist)
14:39:50 * acozine waves at gundalow
14:40:19 <acozine> all right, any questions about the Contributors Summit?
14:40:30 <acozine> ideas, suggestions, comments?
14:40:45 <acozine> it's very quiet today
14:41:24 <samccann> that it is
14:41:50 <bcoca> sssh!
14:42:07 <acozine> heh
14:42:10 <acozine> #chair bcoca
14:42:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine bcoca gundalow samccann
14:42:16 <samccann> toss furniture...
14:42:37 <acozine> #topic ansible freeze dates
14:42:59 <samccann> #info - details on Ansible freeze and collections - https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview
14:44:08 <acozine> we expect the `devel` branch to freeze NEXT WEEK
14:44:37 <samccann> #info 'devel' branch freezes March 2nd
14:45:05 <acozine> so if you have changes you want to go in before then, now is the time!
14:45:10 <acozine> seize the moment!
14:45:14 <acozine> carpe diem!
14:45:18 <samccann> carpe the docs!
14:45:21 <acozine> heh
14:45:31 <acozine> and ping us here for reviews, etc.
14:46:23 <samccann> speaking of which... as we all know (heh) most of the modules will be migrated from ansible/ansible to collections.
14:46:51 <samccann> There is a ..erm.. temp repo called ansible-base that gives an indication of what this will be.
14:47:11 <samccann> #topic Doc review for ansible-base
14:47:41 <samccann> #info looking for community help to verify the docs are looking good for the ansible world w/o modules
14:47:55 <samccann> #link http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible/devel/index.html
14:48:17 <samccann> That's basically make webdocs off that temporary ansible-base repo.
14:48:28 <samccann> please poke around and let us know if you find any problems/issues etc
14:49:31 <samccann> #info this test docsite doesn't include collections modules yet. That's coming, as is a 'moved to' stub for existing modules in 2.9 to say where they moved to
14:49:49 <acozine> there are errors from the porting guides
14:50:06 <acozine> oh, we do have the collections stuff up there, on a different branch
14:50:26 <samccann> yes, all those links we carefully put in for modules mentioned in the porting guides no longer work. TBD what we'll do about all them
14:50:44 <samccann> i'm thinking hard-links (aka urls) but there's a further problem
14:51:28 <samccann> in that the 2.10 porting guide already has quite abit of links, and all those would go to a collection somewheres...and what does a 'porting guide' mean after 2.10? (aka when collections are revving independently)
14:51:50 <acozine> hmm, won't those errors go away once we integrate the collections build?
14:51:59 <acozine> the porting guide links will go to the stub pages then, right?
14:52:17 <samccann> oh good point!  yes the older porting guides should still work! doh!
14:52:18 <acozine> (this only fixes the 2.9-and-older porting guides)
14:52:40 <samccann> i'm not doing the whole split-brain well between the collections pipeline work and the ansible-base work :-P
14:52:44 <acozine> we do still have some sample stub pages on the testing site
14:52:48 <acozine> see http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible/2.10/modules/gcp_compute_firewall_info_module.html for example
14:53:06 <acozine> please remember that the testing site is subject to change without notice
14:53:11 <samccann> #info sample stub page for when modules migrate to a collection http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible/2.10/modules/gcp_compute_firewall_info_module.html
14:54:50 <acozine> I believe the changelog fragments are moving with the modules they reference into collections
14:55:29 <samccann> erm...
14:55:29 <acozine> so perhaps that's the future of porting guides
14:55:45 <samccann> there's two problems with that off the top of my head -
14:56:00 <samccann> 1 - they are in rst and galaxy land only deals with md
14:56:14 <samccann> 2 - nothing references the change logs in galaxy land.
14:56:47 <acozine> true, we would either have to expand the collections docs pipeline to pull in changelog fragments, or create a new utility
14:56:49 <samccann> I suppose we could solve them with the readme.md having a link to the changelog, but then there needs to be something that will recreate a changelog.rst from all those fragments within a collection
14:57:44 <acozine> I think it woudl be great to have a utility where you provide a list of FQCNs and versions, and the utility spits out an integrated HTML page that shows you all the changes that apply
14:57:48 <samccann> well I agree they should move with the collection. I just think we have some Deep Thoughts to think through on how we recreate the changelog file for each collection, and how it handles multiple versions etc.  But yep, that is likely the porting guide stopgap future
14:57:57 <acozine> that would probably have to run locally
14:58:30 <acozine> ^^^ by "that", I mean the pie-in-the-sky collections-diff utility I half-described above
14:58:32 <samccann> #action need to discuss how changelog fragments work within a collection and how to get versions of changelog files visible to a collection user
14:58:57 <samccann> #info we think change log fragments are being migrated along with the modules... need to verify that
14:59:12 <samccann> bcoca you still lurking??  ^^
15:00:37 <bcoca> no, migration is doing nothing with changelogs
15:00:51 <bcoca> i believe RMs are looking into that with community
15:01:00 <acozine> I saw some chatter about it recently
15:01:02 <acozine> yesterday, maybe?
15:01:08 <samccann> anyone know how to remove an info in irc :-)
15:01:12 <acozine> heh
15:01:25 <acozine> you put "need to verify", I think it's fine
15:01:26 <bcoca> migration is not even keeping git hisstory, so changelogs would not be a feasable part of it
15:02:52 <samccann> ok so we'll have changelog fragments and thus a changelog.rst for 2.10, but TBD what happens after that
15:03:36 <bcoca> each repo will have to handle that
15:03:46 <samccann> so we need to figure out what happens post 2.10 so that something is in place to handle changelog equivalents and/or porting guide equivalents per repo/collection
15:04:42 <samccann> #info changelog fragments not migrating. So 2.10 will have a porting guide and changelog.rst but TBD what happens in the future. Will be up to each repo to maintain 'something' to handle versioned based information.
15:04:45 <bcoca> you will probably get something uniform from community, but for 3rd parties .. that is going to be 'fun'
15:04:46 <acozine> that could be a great topic for the hackathon at the Contributors Summit!
15:05:02 <bcoca> or just make it a requirement 'do same as community if you want to see docs for your stuff on our site'
15:05:32 <samccann> yep, I think we work as a community to figure out that. And anyone else is welcome to do the same or roll their own with their own docsite
15:06:15 <samccann> #action propose a discussion topic on changelogs/porting guides in the collections world to the contributors summit.
15:08:14 <acozine> any other questions, comments, suggestions, complaints, ideas, or any other reactions on the topic of freeze dates?
15:08:26 <acozine> aka the Great Module Migration?
15:08:42 <samccann> herds of modules.. .trotting in the wild...
15:09:13 <bcoca> i would say 'content', cause though modules are the bulk, what is really going to be a pain is the other plugin types
15:09:25 <acozine> ah, okay
15:09:43 <acozine> aka the Great Content Migration?
15:09:55 <bcoca> The plugin exodus!
15:10:02 <acozine> oh, I like that better
15:10:51 <acozine> Content is ambiguous in that phrase - could be a noun meaning "stuff" and could be an adjective meaning "satisfied"
15:11:11 <acozine> but the Great Plugin Exodus is clear, concise, and kind of funny
15:12:05 <acozine> #topic status updates
15:12:41 <acozine> samccann and I have been reviewing, merging, and/or closing as many docs PRs as we are able
15:12:52 <acozine> current count is under 70
15:13:32 <acozine> we've also been working with the localization team on Japanese translations of a few pages of the docs
15:14:40 <acozine> and testing out the new collections docs pipeline
15:16:10 <acozine> it would be great to triage the docs issues this week
15:16:31 <acozine> if anyone out there in ansible-docs land has time, please take a look
15:16:43 <acozine> and please put a note here in the chat so we know to follow up
15:17:16 <samccann> We will need to figure out what remains after the plugin exodus
15:19:09 <acozine> yes, there will be a lot of cleanup after the Plugin Exodus
15:20:13 <acozine> okay, we have ten minutes remaining
15:20:17 <acozine> #topic open floor
15:20:51 <acozine> contributors, lurkers, this is your chance!
15:21:28 <acozine> if you have a question, a complaint, a comment, an issue you filed that you'd like to push to the top of the pile, a PR you created that you'd like reviewed
15:21:33 <acozine> now is the time
15:22:06 <acozine> let us know, and we will find answers, take note of problems, look at issues, review PRs
15:22:41 <acozine> everyone is encouraged to join the conversation
15:26:05 <acozine> five minutes left
15:26:19 <acozine> if nobody has a topic to bring to the floor, we'll end early
15:27:49 <acozine> thanks everyone!
15:27:53 <acozine> #endmeeting