18:01:16 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:01:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 14 18:01:16 2022 UTC.
18:01:16 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:01:16 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:01:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:01:17 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/645
18:01:17 <felixfontein> acozine andersson007_ baptistemm bcoca briantist cyberpear cybette dericcrago dmsimard felixfontein geerlingguy gundalow gwmngilfen ikhan_ jillr jtanner lmodemal misc nitzmahone resmo samccann tadeboro cidrblock thaumos zbr: ping!
18:01:20 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/645 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
18:01:23 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
18:01:46 <cyberpear> o/
18:01:50 <samccann> o/
18:02:14 <gotmax[m]> .hello gotmax23
18:02:14 <zodbot> gotmax[m]: gotmax23 'Maxwell G' <gotmax@e.email>
18:02:26 <gotmax[m]> I may have to leave early, but I'm here for now
18:02:42 <samccann> .hello samccann
18:02:43 <zodbot> samccann: Sorry, but user 'samccann' does not exist
18:02:59 <samccann> HAH!  now I'm having an existential crisis...;-)
18:03:00 <gotmax[m]> It only works if you're registered with the Fedora Accounts System
18:03:07 <felixfontein> #chair cyberpear samccann gotmax[m]
18:03:07 <zodbot> Current chairs: cyberpear felixfontein gotmax[m] samccann
18:03:08 <samccann> ah gotcha. thanks
18:05:27 <felixfontein> I hope everyone had a nice day so far :)
18:06:04 <gotmax[m]> You too :)
18:06:10 <felixfontein> #info ansible-core feature freeze (for 2.14) is coming Monday, September 19
18:06:22 <samccann> dun da dun dun!!
18:06:43 <acozine> o/
18:06:44 <samccann> ^^ somewhere between menacing music and a drum roll
18:06:58 <felixfontein> #info one week later the first ansible-core 2.14 beta, and then the first Ansible 7 alpha, will be released
18:08:24 <acozine> it's a busy month!
18:08:49 <felixfontein> btw, anyone knows when this week's Ansible 6.4.0 release will happen?
18:08:50 <felixfontein> indeed!
18:08:53 <felixfontein> #chair acozine
18:08:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine cyberpear felixfontein gotmax[m] samccann
18:09:27 <gotmax[m]> Where is the schedule for when the next releases are supposed to happen? I think it's every three weeks or something?
18:10:13 <briantist> o/
18:10:41 <felixfontein> #chair briantist
18:10:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine briantist cyberpear felixfontein gotmax[m] samccann
18:11:04 <felixfontein> gotmax[m]: I don't think there's an explicit schedule, there's only "every three weeks", and this week is three weeks after the last release :)
18:11:19 * gotmax[m] nods
18:11:37 <felixfontein> most ansible releases were happening on Tuesday, but Wednesday is also not very uncommon
18:11:44 <felixfontein> from experience :)
18:12:27 <gotmax[m]> Maybe we should create a specific schedule
18:13:13 <samccann> chadams announced the last one so might know when the next Ansible package release is coming
18:13:42 <felixfontein> yeah, my next question would be who is actually supposed to do the release :)
18:14:01 <felixfontein> because last time it was someone else than Ompragash
18:15:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:15:27 * felixfontein is just looking at the community issues
18:17:22 <felixfontein> basically everything recent is about removing stuff from the ansible package ;)
18:17:47 <felixfontein> by either removing collections (unmaintained ones), or by removing files :)
18:17:55 <acozine> heh, it's time to slim down a bit, I guess
18:18:07 <gotmax[m]> Yup :)
18:19:11 <gotmax[m]> For the extra files, I think we're just waiting to hear back from legal at this point
18:19:40 <chadams[m]> felixfontein: members of the Productization team and I will be doing the ansible community releases on rotation.  I talked to ompragash yesterday about the cadence of these releases.  The Ansible Core releases happen every 4 weeks, and my understanding from samccann is that the aim is to release Ansible (community) 3 weeks after the core release so that the core patch version lines up with the community minor version.
18:21:37 <felixfontein> hmm, that is news to me at least
18:21:42 <samccann> chadams: that was for the major release cadence. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not sure if the minor package releases wait those 3 weeks as well
18:22:13 <samccann> So Ansible 7 won't release a few weeks after core 2.14
18:22:34 <samccann> won't release UNTIL a few week after...
18:22:54 <felixfontein> according to https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/docs/docsite/rst/roadmap/COLLECTIONS_7.rst#release-schedule it's 3 weeks between 2.14.0 and 7.0.0, and 2 weeks between 2.14.1 and 7.1.0, for example
18:23:03 <gotmax[m]> From my experience, ansible minor releases come a couple days-a week after ansible-core releases
18:23:38 * gotmax[m] wonders why the community team no longer does the releases
18:23:43 <felixfontein> gotmax[m]: it basically changes between a day, a week, and two weeks
18:23:53 <felixfontein> since core releases every four weeks, and Ansible every three weeks
18:24:19 <felixfontein> actually or three weeks, depending on how you look at it
18:24:25 <samccann> wow that's more complicated than I thought
18:25:05 <felixfontein> basically we decided on every three weeks back when ansible-core was also releasing every three weeks
18:25:42 <chadams[m]> Ahh ok.
18:25:42 <chadams[m]> gotmax (He/Him) , Ompragash will still be sharing releases.  Just time allocation & sharing of duties.
18:25:49 <felixfontein> then ansible-core switched to every four weeks, but ansible didn't change - I guess part of the idea was to make it more obvious that the versions of ansible and ansible-core are not really related
18:26:13 <felixfontein> which I guess is not *that* important anymore since we have ansible-core 2.13.x and Ansible 6.x.y.0 right now
18:26:42 <felixfontein> it definitely makes sense that it's not just one person always doing the work :)
18:26:50 <felixfontein> (think of PTO and stuff...)
18:26:58 <gotmax[m]> Agreed
18:28:13 <chadams[m]> We can definitely stick with the existing schedule if that is preferred.  But it might be a good time to pivot and align with core better if that makes sense to folks.  I am happy to talk it through either way.
18:28:28 <chadams[m]> ompragash: what are your thoughts?
18:28:39 <felixfontein> I guess that would be an interesting new discussion to start :)
18:28:48 <acozine> Do we know how many folks download the point releases?
18:29:00 <felixfontein> though I guess that for Ansible 6 we should stick to the current 3 weeks cycle, and only start with every 4 weeks with Ansible 7
18:29:09 <ompragash[m]> chadams: if we want to bring new schedule I think we can save it for Ansible 7
18:29:29 <gotmax[m]> acozine: Everyone who's using distribution packages probably does
18:29:51 <acozine> I guess it's impossible to know who is downloading for hte first time and who is upgrading. Scratch my question.
18:29:58 <acozine> gotmax (He/Him): yeah, that too
18:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:30:28 <ompragash[m]> * new schedule then I think
18:31:43 <chadams[m]> ompragash: that makes sense.  I agree, let's stick to every 3 weeks for Ansible 6.  Want to work together to release tomorrow morning?
18:32:35 <ompragash[m]> chadams: sure! let's meet tomorrow morning:)
18:33:08 <chadams[m]> Sounds good!  Sorry for any confusion I caused y'all : )
18:33:24 <gotmax[m]> No problem
18:33:32 <ompragash[m]> nahh it's all good
18:33:42 * gotmax[m] notes that there's 3258 different license files in the ansible package
18:34:53 <gotmax[m]> Oops that's wrong
18:35:11 <felixfontein> gotmax[m]: different locations, or distinct file contents?
18:36:18 <gotmax[m]> There's 202
18:36:34 <gotmax[m]> That's the number of total files.
18:37:14 <gotmax[m]> I think we should find a way to share them between collections in the ansible package
18:37:47 <acozine> do they all reference the same license?
18:37:50 <gotmax[m]> All of these files 3.5 mb to the package, which is nontrivial
18:38:44 <gotmax[m]> There's at least one copy of the GPL for each collection
18:39:46 <acozine> Could that become a link in the collection README, or a line in the galaxy.yml?
18:39:54 <samccann> is there a legal issue involved here, where we are required to keep the license with  the code so to speak?
18:40:10 <gotmax[m]> Then there's the secondary licenses that apply to some collections: BSD-2-Clause, BSD-3-Clause, Apache-2.0, MPL-2.0, PSF-2.0
18:40:26 <felixfontein> one problem is that the Python packaging process converts symlinks into copies
18:40:46 <gotmax[m]> Yes, but I don't think any of those were symlinks in the first place
18:40:53 <acozine> heh, symlink all you want, we're including the file anyway?
18:41:14 <gotmax[m]> And many of them have slight formatting differences
18:41:15 <felixfontein> gotmax[m]: some were, namely the links to ../COPYING in LICENSES/ in some collections like community.general :)
18:42:07 <gotmax[m]> That's true
18:42:43 <gotmax[m]> In my ideal world, we could have one LICENSES directory for the whole package and have each collection follow REUSE
18:42:47 <gotmax[m]> But I'm not holding out hope...
18:42:58 <felixfontein> due to Python packaging always destroying symlinks, I'm not sure there's much we can do if we don't want to modify collection contents
18:43:12 <gotmax[m]> Yeah, it's a bit sticky
18:44:41 <gotmax[m]> <gotmax[m]> "All of these files 3.5 mb to the..." <- The real count is 6.2 mb
18:44:59 <gotmax[m]> I cut half of it off by running `hardlink` over all of the licenses
18:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:45:04 <gotmax[m]> in the Fedora package
18:47:24 <gotmax[m]> I don't think we can solve this without standardized license handling between collections. Even with that, we'd still have to consolidate the files.
18:47:39 <gotmax[m]> I more so wanted to bring it to everyone's attention
18:48:44 <acozine> should we document the "lightest-weight way to include license files in your collection" somewhere?
18:49:14 <acozine> if there's a better way to do it, pointing that out may get the community moving in the right direction over time
18:50:02 <gotmax[m]> Well, if every collection used the same exact license texts (no formatting differences), hardlinking them would be more effective
18:51:20 <gotmax[m]> There's ~66 different versions of the GPL in the collection each with slight formatting difference
18:51:42 <gotmax[m]> s/collection/ansible package/
18:52:02 <felixfontein> hmm, 66 is a lot more than I would expect
18:52:30 <felixfontein> (I would have expected maybe 5-10 different versions at most)
18:55:47 <gotmax[m]> For BSD/MIT style license texts, they're usually different due to the embedded copyright statements. But we can at least use the same GPL text for every collection.
18:57:36 <gundalow> Wow, 66 is a lot. If you replace them with the same version, is gwgre much of a `diff`? Just wondering if it's whitespace?
18:59:06 <gotmax[m]> It could be white space, indentation, or different FSF URLs
19:00:33 <felixfontein> well, I guess time's up for today :)
19:01:03 <acozine> thanks for running the meeting felixfontein
19:01:08 <samccann> time flies when you're having (licensing) fun, eh?
19:01:24 <felixfontein> haha yes :)
19:01:25 <gotmax[m]> Yup :)
19:01:38 <felixfontein> it's even faster than when you're having semantic markup fun ;)
19:01:41 <felixfontein> #endmeeting