15:58:37 <kwurst> #startmeeting
15:58:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 15:58:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is kwurst. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:58:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:58:56 <mchua> kwurst: can you #chair me?
15:59:01 <mchua> (and everyone in the room)
15:59:12 <kwurst> #chair mchua
15:59:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: kwurst mchua
15:59:25 <kwurst> #chari rebelsky
15:59:25 <mchua> #topic The Great TOS Lit Review
15:59:51 <kwurst> #chair rebelsky
15:59:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: kwurst mchua rebelsky
16:00:08 <mchua> Not everyone here is in the channel so we will be trying to take notes here.
16:00:12 <mchua> about to start.
16:01:21 <rebelsky> What should we have at the end of the hour?  A massive lit review or ....?
16:01:47 <rebelsky> Karl wants to see more research projects that show how TOS is making a difference.
16:02:57 <rebelsky> Michelle's design: Two Universities, Two Software Design Courses, one traditional, one FOSS/contribution.  "Get outside of our community to compare results."
16:04:42 <rebelsky> A map of the areas that we can draw on as we think about as we talk about teaching FOSS.
16:04:56 <rebelsky> Michelle notes that very little has been done systematically to measure the effects.
16:06:06 <rebelsky> Social aspects: "Do I really have to read all of those posts?"
16:06:36 <kwurst> Mihela notes that we use lots of open sources practices already, and wants to know if those kinds of practices are beneficial.
16:06:44 <rebelsky> Some aspects of FOSS naturally come into the things that we teach - practices, tools, etc.
16:06:45 <kwurst> …to the students
16:07:26 <rebelsky> Mihela really wants evidence that she can bring to her colleagues and to her students.
16:08:22 <kwurst> Bonnie is interested in how groups communicate in software engineering, not just in open source.
16:08:36 <rebelsky> Bonnie: Question of how students and groups communicate.  ??? does studies of how software engineers communicate in industry.  Try to use those methods to look at communication issues for students.  Look for Bonnie's paper at Engineering Education in China.
16:08:56 <rebelsky> "How does working in an open source environment change all that?"
16:13:57 <rebelsky> We're going to start with a quick chart of what's been done
16:14:48 <kwurst> #action Mel proposes that we split our session into two - lit review, and discussion of starting studies
16:15:00 <kwurst> #topic Lit Review
16:15:53 <rebelsky> Bonnie notes that we can also look at some of the research on software engineering practices.
16:16:07 <kwurst> #info Chart is being drawn by Michelle, Mel and Mihaela
16:16:22 <kwurst> The Three "M"s
16:17:02 <kwurst> #action The chart needs to be captured, transcribed and posted onTOS
16:19:17 <rebelsky> Importance of cultural issues.  Q: What does "cultural issues" mean?  A: Diverse student perspectives/backgrounds, global, or the culture of the FOSS project.
16:20:17 <rebelsky> Wenger: Issues of peripheral participation.  "Communities of Practice".
16:22:02 <rebelsky> Guzdial's 'blog post: Those on the peripheries tend to stay on the periphery.  But Mel and others have objected to this post.
16:24:21 <rebelsky> Mihella recommends John Seely Brown's "The Power of Pull"
16:26:10 <rebelsky> This is how learning occurs.  This how the community facilitates learning.  Things we know about learning communities outside of open source.  "LPP - Legitimate Peripheral Participation".  Reexperience  (A great paper on the tools that open source communities use; the ability to follow trails from versioning systems.)  Also some situated cognition stuff.
16:27:26 <rebelsky> Lots of anecdotal practitioner research from the FOSS community. . S/W design, team skills, programming, test, bugfix.  Domains include bioinformatics, HFOSS.  A lot of SIGCSE and Frontiers in Education.  Journal of Open Source Software and Processes.  (JOSSP.)
16:28:53 <rebelsky> http://www.igi-global.com/journal/international-journal-open-source-software/1123
16:30:22 <rebelsky> "First Monday" A journal on the internet, often has FOSS related stuff.  The periphery article appeared there.
16:30:31 <kwurst> http://firstmonday.org/
16:31:15 <kwurst> #info http://firstmonday.org/
16:34:57 <rebelsky> Some frameworks that we can use (even if they aren't directly FOSS): Wenger, Lave, Vygotsky, Bandara, Rogoff, Smith, Value of cognitive apprenticeship model - Vertical integration.  (Seely Brown, Duguid, Collins break it down well).
16:35:43 <rebelsky> Michelle recommends Hemetsberger's Reexperience paper.
16:36:00 <rebelsky> Mihela recommends Bloom's 1985 work on mastery learning.
16:36:19 <rebelsky> Thiemen's master's thesis on Ubuntu as community of practice
16:36:25 <rebelsky> Don Davis did quantitative study.
16:37:30 <rebelsky> Smith is "David Smith" - Developmental psychologist.  Zone of proximal development.
16:41:57 <rebelsky> Studies of Professional Practice "Social-technical congruence."  Marcello Cataldo.
16:44:01 <rebelsky> Question: Have people looked at the communication differences between FOSS and normal industry practices?  (Particularly how well student experiences and skills working in FOSS translate.)
16:51:57 <rebelsky> How are people who come from the FOSS world into academia approaching these issues?
16:55:04 <kwurst> Mihaela asks "How can CS people connect with Anthropology and Sociology to study how the communities work?"
16:58:04 <rebelsky> More generally - How are people working with faculty/grad students/etc. in other departments?
17:00:48 <kwurst> #topic How do we design studies?
17:02:15 <rebelsky> What are the things we assess?  Learning to work in teams, communication, etc.
17:02:57 <kwurst> #endmeeting