15:03:04 <mchua> #startmeeting
15:03:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov  4 15:03:04 2009 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:03:43 <mchua> Intro on Sunday: if you can kick off a generic little "welcome everyone" spiel to call folks together, I can take the rest from there, and make sure the installfest happens, everyone gets set up, gets to meet each other, etc.
15:04:35 <mchua> #info Sunday Welcome: Harish to kick off, Mel to do the rest
15:05:28 <mchua> I can also take all of Monday's curriculum to give us some breathing room to figure out how to work out the rest of the week
15:07:36 <harish> am back
15:07:43 <harish> call done
15:08:03 <harish> ok with sunday
15:08:20 <harish> sounds ok with monday being handled by you.
15:08:26 <mchua> #info Mel taking Monday
15:08:28 <harish> let me look at the monday stuff again ...
15:08:48 <mchua> it's basically "here's open source, let's use the wiki and IRC"
15:09:07 <harish> ok
15:09:12 <harish> got it. go for it.
15:09:19 <harish> i'll chip in as needed
15:09:34 <mchua> yeah, I suspect there'll be a lot of good times to interrupt me with "here's the history of open source in APAC, here's how we handle i18n with Asian languages," etc. stuff I don't know
15:09:43 <mchua> Tuesday: getting and building source
15:09:46 <harish> we will have some language challenges so we might have to manage them
15:09:48 <mchua> and RPM packaging basics
15:10:07 <mchua> Yeah, I'll try to set up Asian languages on my F11 machine before I leave so I have some idea of the pain
15:10:18 <mchua> I haven't tried to type in Chinese for nearly a year now
15:10:39 <mchua> harish: how are you with packaging?
15:10:42 <harish> and i am unclued about anything other than english.
15:11:01 <harish> i have done packaging but i will need to review it first.
15:11:27 <mchua> It's good to have them watch us figure out some unfamiliar things, I think; it drives home the point that everyone's always learning, and shows them how folks who are used to the open source world go about doing it.
15:11:34 <mchua> Ok. Yeah, I've only been packaging for a few months
15:11:42 * harish dusting off old memories from 2003 about rpm
15:11:44 <mchua> So I can do it, I'm just not that great at it
15:11:45 <mchua> Wow!
15:12:21 <mchua> I'll try to cram in as much practice as possible for myself too, but it's probably good to have some helpers on backup on IRC
15:12:41 <harish> yes, can you identify someone?
15:12:50 <mchua> harish: I think if you drive one topic on Tuesday and I drive the other, we'll be ok, and we can back each other up - do you want to do build environments, or packaging?
15:12:58 <mchua> I'm equally comfortable with either, so it's your call
15:13:31 <mchua> harish: we know a lot of excellent packagers, but I don't know anyone in the right time zone
15:13:34 <harish> again, it is vintage 2003, so I am happy to try out either.
15:13:35 <mchua> sdziallas:  ideas?
15:14:05 <mchua> harish: ok, I'll take point on source and you take point on packaging and we'll figure it out
15:14:15 <harish> ok
15:14:15 <mchua> #info Tuesday: getting and building source - Mel
15:14:18 <sdziallas> mchua: hey :)
15:14:21 * sdziallas reads backlog
15:14:22 <mchua> #info Tuesday: RPM packaging basics - Harish
15:14:45 <mchua> sdziallas: harish and i are both fuzzy on packaging (he's rusty, I'm new) and we're going to need backup
15:14:56 <mchua> sdziallas: can you think of a way for us to rally the troops on IRC?
15:14:58 * harish recalls running a training on rpm basics in early 2004. need to find the documents.
15:15:11 <sdziallas> mchua: I can try to help, but you know of my time zone...
15:15:17 <mchua> sdziallas: Yeah, I know...
15:15:37 <harish> for the record, Singapore is GMT+8.
15:15:48 <sdziallas> mchua: you mean more packaging folks? mhm, I guess Fedora Planet post with "super-awesome project needs help" might do the trick...
15:15:55 <sdziallas> harish: I'm GMT+1... :/
15:15:57 <mchua> harish: ok, wednesday has bugzilla, navigating large codebases and making patches, and getting through the patch review process
15:15:59 <harish> So from US East Coast it is +13 hrs ahead and US west coast +16.
15:16:17 <harish> sdziallas: i see
15:16:32 <sdziallas> harish: I guess I could join in the late afternoon, but that's probably too late.
15:16:44 <harish> unless we move it to late afternoon.
15:16:45 <mchua> harish: I used to do QA, so I'm feeling good about bugzilla; I haven't gone through the patch process myself though.
15:16:55 <sdziallas> mchua: mhm, I'm trying to think of some folks with edu background and packaging experiences...
15:17:28 <harish> i can ask Derek on that. i have patched stuff from diffs (for the kernel back when I did recompile of kernels for fun), but that is vintage 1999.
15:17:34 <sdziallas> mchua: rdieter, probably. or nirik (not that much into education, but he seems to be reasonable and could probably use that for another Fedora Classroom run)?
15:17:44 <mchua> harish: vintage is better than "haven't done this before"
15:17:46 <mchua> sdziallas: Ooh!
15:17:53 <mchua> sdziallas: Yeah, I'd love to have Fedora Classroom get in on the action
15:18:03 <harish> sdziallas: can we?
15:18:32 <sdziallas> a Fedora Classroom thing? well, let's see if I can find nirik... ;)
15:18:40 <mchua> harish: k, so I'll take bugzilla and some combo of you and Derek can do 'developing in community' and 'patching'?
15:18:53 <harish> yes
15:19:04 <mchua> #info Wednesday, bugzilla - Mel
15:19:16 <mchua> #info Wednesday, developing in community + patching - Derek, Harish
15:19:24 <sdziallas> mchua: want me to ask whether he's joining us here in the channel now for a quick discussion?
15:19:27 <mchua> sdziallas: sure
15:19:33 <sdziallas> cool!
15:19:37 * sdziallas goes pinging
15:19:46 <mchua> sdziallas: really quick, I promised Harish we'd be done in 12min ;)
15:19:59 <sdziallas> mchua: oups! :) well, let's see if he replies...
15:20:06 <mchua> harish: Thursday has debugging and testing, open source collaborative development, student project case studies
15:20:19 <mchua> I have tons of case studies, so can do that one
15:20:24 <mchua> #info Thursday case studies - Mel
15:20:34 <harish> sure, i can chip in on that.
15:20:36 <mchua> yay!
15:21:06 <harish> btw, fwiw, check cpe802.pbwiki.com - it is a course I teach at the NTU once a year. been doing that for 4 years now.
15:21:23 <mchua> the 'collaborative development' part - any ideas for what part of the codebase we can dive everyone into that isn't going to be a problem with language barriers?
15:21:40 <mchua> harish: whoa. AWESOME.
15:21:59 <harish> we can put up on monday a list of projects that need help and see if there are votes for them.
15:22:25 * mchua nods
15:22:46 <mchua> I think that if we view this as a rough schedule and take time at the end of each day with the students to build the schedule for the next day, we'll be all right
15:22:53 <harish> we need a running list of to-dos, gotchas, etc all on the wiki.
15:23:04 <mchua> I think we're going to have to do that since it sounds like we've got way less time than we originally planned (Thursday instead of Friday)
15:23:33 * mchua is excited; this'll be fun
15:23:45 <mchua> the more improvisational I have to be while teaching, the better I usually teach
15:23:57 <mchua> harish: +1, we'll make sure of that
15:24:21 <mchua> harish: that means we need to have *everybody* be on the mailing list and on this channel through the whole week
15:24:41 <harish> yes, that *is* the way forward anyway.
15:24:43 <mchua> harish: so every chance you get to bug Alan about getting people on the mailing list, do ;)
15:24:53 <mchua> Yay! Immersion!
15:25:11 <harish> alas, i will not be seeing him till sunday. am in kl right now speaking tomorrow at mygosscon.
15:25:28 <mchua> harish: thursday - debugging and testing, open source collaborative development (large codebase dive) - pick one, I'll run point on the other
15:25:44 <mchua> harish: no worries, he's going to get emails from me ;) (the posse-apac list will be cc'd)
15:25:45 <harish> i'd like to set the tone of the session as being a serious but fun thing.
15:25:54 <mchua> I think that's exactly right.
15:26:14 <harish> debugging and testing perhaps.
15:26:31 <mchua> Ok
15:26:36 <sdziallas> mchua: he doesn't seem to reply, will hopefully do so later
15:26:39 <harish> need to have a daily review of what we did the day before item on the schedule
15:26:39 <mchua> #info Thursday, debugging and testing - Harish
15:26:56 <mchua> #info Thursday, collaborative dev - Mel
15:27:14 <harish> testing include regression as well.
15:27:31 <mchua> harish: Yep, I'll look at the wiki page and see how we can break the structure open to make it easier to madly edit next week
15:27:45 <mchua> harish: aye, and it might be worth pinging the fedora qa folks and letting them know we're going to be doing this
15:27:51 <mchua> I think test days are usually scheduled on thursdays too
15:28:22 <mchua> ...oooh!
15:28:23 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_12_test_days
15:28:29 <harish> i have to step out on 12th November 2009, 3-5pm for a meeting
15:28:53 <mchua> harish: np, I'll take care of it then, we'll be swimming in a codebase anyway
15:29:24 <mchua> we'll make sure to do the student project case studies before you have to run
15:29:34 <mchua> #info Harish out Thursday 3-5pm, make sure we do student project case studies before he has to leave
15:30:01 <mchua> harish: and if you could do the wrangling of guests to Thursday's dinner when you get back from that (dinner starts 6:30) that'd be great
15:30:26 <harish> oh yeah.  did not do that yet. how many seats do we have for guests?
15:30:30 <mchua> 10
15:30:38 <harish> and what's left?
15:30:43 <mchua> 9, if Derek comes
15:30:48 <harish> ok
15:31:08 <harish> alan is handling the dinner logistics?
15:31:25 <mchua> harish: yeah, Alan has the logistics down... basically, if you can play host Thursday night, and I'll run backup as needed
15:31:42 <harish> sure, i'd be happy to do that.
15:31:46 <mchua> I make a pretty lousy party host by Asian cultural standards, from prior experience :)
15:31:50 <mchua> sweet.
15:32:06 <mchua> that just leaves Friday's "teaching open source" bit
15:32:11 <harish> btw, did alan say anything about rh tee-shirts?
15:32:21 <mchua> which I think you probably should do since you've taught open source in APAC before
15:32:25 <mchua> and the wrap-up, which we can both handle
15:32:32 <mchua> harish: not that I know of
15:32:34 <harish> ok
15:32:38 <harish> ok
15:32:51 <mchua> harish: and with that, I believe we're done.
15:33:02 <mchua> So long as we have Sunday night settled (which we do) and Monday taken care of (which we do)
15:33:03 <harish> yes, now to ping derek
15:33:06 <mchua> and a rough gameplan for the rest
15:33:13 <mchua> and the ability to improvise, we'll be okay
15:33:29 <harish> we will wing it anyway as any good open source project
15:33:34 <mchua> Aye.
15:33:47 <mchua> harish: I think I owe you something like 50 drinks by now. :)
15:33:57 <mchua> *totally* looking forward to meeting you on Sunday.
15:34:00 <harish> hick!
15:34:08 <mchua> harish: anything else? that's all I had, I'll attack the wiki
15:34:16 <harish> when are you arriving into SG?
15:34:25 <harish> nothing else i think.
15:34:42 <mchua> harish: Sunday really really early morning, just past midnight
15:34:56 <harish> can we ensure that gdk is on irc at some point(s) next week?
15:34:58 <mchua> harish: I should be up and ready to go by lunchtime
15:35:06 <harish> ok
15:35:09 <mchua> harish: yes
15:35:32 <mchua> harish: the CommArch sprint on Tuesday is half-POSSE, so we have the entire team for a couple hours our Tuesday evening if we need anything
15:35:42 <harish> i have a family (and extended one in that) lunch on sunday and should be available by 4ish.
15:35:44 <mchua> and I'm going to be calling heavily for IRC backup
15:36:01 <harish> ok
15:36:09 <harish> i have not been on the commarch call for a while now.
15:36:19 <harish> feeling like an outsider :-).
15:36:56 <mchua> harish: I'll check with Max and make sure we sync you up before Monday starts
15:37:09 <mchua> even if that's me and you and a 10 minute braindump before dinner Sunday
15:37:25 <harish> sure
15:37:41 <mchua> harish: anyway, I didn't want to keep you from other meetings, but I'll be around all day, and late tonight, and... basically in this channel up until I hop the plane
15:37:42 <harish> i'll bring an empty bucket :-).
15:37:45 <mchua> :)
15:38:08 <harish> sweet. ttyl
15:38:09 <mchua> #info Friday, teaching open source - Harish
15:38:17 <mchua> #info Friday, wrap-up - Harish and Mel
15:38:23 <mchua> #info Thursday, dinner party night - Harish
15:38:31 <mchua> #endmeeting