21:05:18 <pcalarco> #startmeeting
21:05:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Dec  5 21:05:18 2009 UTC.  The chair is pcalarco. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:05:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:05:22 <mchua> ianweller: I'll post the old log, no worries
21:05:26 <ianweller> oh whoops
21:05:28 <ianweller> i frogot to end it
21:05:33 <ianweller> sorry!
21:07:16 <pcalarco> #meetingtopic Fedora and OLPC
21:07:32 <mchua> pcalarco: you transcribe smparrish, i transcribe sdziallas?
21:07:45 <pcalarco> mchua: good idea
21:08:27 <mchua> AMD cancelled the geode at the end of last year, so no new geodes will be going into production.
21:08:31 <pcalarco> Stephen Parrish works on getting Fedora 11 to run on XOs
21:08:42 <pcalarco> this is known as Sugar
21:08:46 <mchua> (which is why the XO 1.5 is based on not-the-geode.)
21:09:32 <pcalarco> separate activities to run XO native OS, and Fedora on XOs, with different folks
21:09:51 <mchua> Including downloading GDM, etc.
21:10:10 <pcalarco> last year, OLPC hardware and software people went separate ways
21:11:03 <pcalarco> SugarLabs develops software for the XO
21:11:04 <mchua> <there are 2 XOs on the table; one is an XO 1.0, one is an XO 1.5>
21:11:35 * mchua notes that the software Sugar Labs develops runs on more than just the XO, too
21:11:40 <pcalarco> long term goal would be for every desktop that Fedora offers to be able to run on XOs
21:12:32 <pcalarco> XO-1 is a harder task than XO-2 for this goal
21:13:09 <pcalarco> The XO laptop completely sealed, has a webcam built in, stereo speakers, mic, everything a child could want
21:13:26 <pcalarco> keys are somewhat smaller than on a netbook
21:14:31 <pcalarco> possible to install Sugar desktop on stock Fedora
21:14:32 <mchua> <?> ou said it will take a year to port onto f12, what are the challenges on doing that?
21:14:45 <mchua> pcalarco: I'll take everyone that's not smparrish :)
21:14:56 <mchua> <?> which kde?
21:15:18 <heffer> ? = Hugh Redelmeier
21:15:30 <mchua> <?>what are you doing in that year? finding little thigs?
21:15:34 <mchua> things
21:15:58 <mchua> <?> how does one get the latest release of your work?
21:16:00 <pcalarco> running KDE on XO-1 would push specs of the machine
21:16:35 <mchua> sdz: writing on board
21:17:04 <mchua> #link http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_XO-1
21:17:05 <pcalarco> wiki.laptop.org search for F11 to get latest release of software
21:18:36 <mchua> sdz: mentioning http://teachingopensource.com, which is a community of people working to teach  others how to get into open source
21:18:49 <mchua> <?> I heard a rumor that <some OS> was going to be done within a year?
21:19:01 <mchua> sdz: teachingopensource = professors bringing their students into open source participation
21:19:12 <mchua> smparrish: no (re: <?>)
21:19:54 <pcalarco> smparrish: has been doing two releases per month, but this is hard to sustain
21:20:08 <pcalarco> smparrish: next up would then be F12 on XO
21:21:02 <mchua> bernie: <missed the start of sentence> It'd be interesting to ask what they need  in order to switch back to what smparrish is maintaiing.
21:22:06 <mchua> there's a gov't contractor deploying (XO's) and status of communications unknown (I think that's the gist of the summary of this)
21:22:25 <pcalarco> bernie: it has been hard to find out what Uruguay has been doing and what we would need to do to bring their custom deployment back into main release branch
21:23:23 <mchua> (thanks, Pascal. I'm having a hard time following the convo around the room.)
21:23:35 <pcalarco> Peter Robinson: they are likely trying to deploy all of the OLPCs there, and no time to catch up with releases
21:23:46 <pcalarco> Bernie: this also happened in Nepal
21:23:58 <mchua> Bernie: if you diverge enough code-wise, it becomes hard to maintain, you start finding bugs due to the fork
21:24:58 <pcalarco> smparrish: Uruguay should eventually catch up to current release because much has changed
21:27:03 <pcalarco> Bernie: it is a great opportunity if Uruguay would work with Sugar Labs
21:27:40 <pcalarco> Bernie: they have much larger resources than individual developers
21:28:03 <pcalarco> question: what are the politics with all of this?
21:29:12 <mchua> sdz: I wonder if it makes sense to even speculate about future versions of the XO hardware.
21:29:33 <mchua> Fedora is being compliant for ARM, so possibilities are open.
21:30:02 <mchua> All effort is going into the 1.5, the 1.75 isn't really on the radar.
21:31:52 <mchua> sdz: what we're saying about the hardware here is pure speculation; we just don't know, and as software people we can't relaly help them with the hardware.
21:32:05 <mchua> smp: we keep the software current, make it usable, and share as much knowledge as we can.
21:34:05 <pcalarco> question: is G1G1 dead forever?
21:34:06 <mchua> Peter Robinson: <says something I missed>
21:34:08 <mchua> ah
21:34:21 <mchua> smp: yes.
21:34:38 <mchua> smp: so now we have alternative ways to run Sugar.
21:34:44 <mchua> sdz: like Sugar on a Stick (SoaS)
21:34:51 <mchua> We started with F10 on the XO-1.
21:35:14 <mchua> OLPC had forked a lot of stuff in Fedora to try and get their features working.
21:35:23 <mchua> But the maintenance burden was too high.
21:35:24 <pcalarco> Peter Robinson: there were many problems with last year's G1G1, including economy tanking, delivery problems, and this year the XO 1.5 is not yet available in production and the XO-1 no longer being made
21:35:36 <mchua> So after a while we tried merging them again.
21:35:57 <mchua> And now we have it.
21:36:03 <mchua> And this is why Fedora has one of the best Sugar implementations atm.
21:36:20 <mchua> Our release cycles are aligned.
21:36:40 <mchua> We want to have Sugar running not only on the XOs, but on every machine.
21:36:56 <mchua> So SoaS is a liveusb key that boots into a Sugar environment.
21:37:09 <mchua> so what I'm going to do is I'm going to boot SoaS on this machine.
21:37:21 <mchua> This version of SoaS is called "Blueberry."
21:37:24 <mchua> It went gold on Thursday.
21:37:32 <mchua> Spread it!
21:37:58 <mchua> sdz plugs stick into netbook, boots from usb stick
21:38:04 <mchua> soas boot screen pops up
21:38:19 <mchua> now it's booting!
21:38:30 <mchua> this is the latest sugar version plus the latest fedora version.
21:39:08 <mchua> the goal is for every child can have a USB key and then use that to boot into their sugar environment from any computer without touching that computer.
21:39:25 <mchua> <?> will it still work on the XO?
21:39:32 <mchua> sdz: yes, you can use SoaS on an XO.
21:40:04 <mchua> Peter: could hypotehtically work on ppc arch too
21:40:08 <mchua> bernie: I got it to work on a beagleboard
21:40:13 <mchua> which was more powerful than the xo-
21:40:16 <mchua> xo-1
21:40:37 <mchua> tihs was 1.5 years ago that we got it to run on ARM
21:40:51 <mchua> 2 years ago there wasn't an ARM spin of Fedora.
21:41:10 <mchua> Things tend to break more frequently there, drivers are missing, etc. - more experimental to do ARM.
21:41:15 <mchua> What's missing is that hardware is hard to come by.
21:41:47 <mchua> but next year's XO will be ARM-based, so that will chnage.
21:41:47 <mchua> sdz: putting up an emulator on the large screen.
21:41:58 <mchua> to keep things simple, we're not releasing a 64-bit anytime soon (for SoaS).
21:42:17 <mchua> Every time we do another spin of SoaS, it needs to be tested, and we don't have QA resources.
21:42:34 <mchua> So we thought we'd go with this one solution that allows everyone to use Sugar, no matter what.
21:42:58 <mchua> sdz to projector!
21:43:16 <mchua> Tour of Sugar!
21:43:35 <mchua> This is my neighborhood view; it shows available things to connect to
21:43:58 <mchua> both APs and other Sugar users.
21:44:00 <mchua> This is my home screen. You can see my icon, and the available Activities around it in a circle.
21:44:07 <mchua> If I start one - here is Browse -
21:44:36 <mchua> if you go to activities.sugarlabs.org
21:46:34 <pcalarco> in F12 to add sugar can do groupinstall sugar
21:47:52 <pcalarco> #link:  http://activities.sugarlabs.org
21:48:35 <mchua> activities.sugarlabs.org is a website that can download and install Sugar Activities for you.
21:48:51 <mchua> It's the same software that you ues to install Mozilla (Firefox, etc) extensions
21:49:03 <mchua> (with much generalization and hacking by the Sugar Labs team to make it work for non-moz stuff)
21:52:19 <mchua> bernie: SoaS gets around one big problem we have with spreading sugar.
21:52:32 <mchua> which is that school admins are very conservative. they won't let you install things on their IT.
21:52:44 <mchua> this lets you use it anyway - piggybacking on the computer without touching it or leaving anything behond.
21:54:04 <heffer> <mchua> how do i help?
21:54:19 <heffer> <sdz> just go to join.sugarlabs.org and get the informatio from there
21:54:29 <heffer> <mchua> what do you need help on at the moment?
21:54:44 <heffer> <SMParrish> getting more sugar activities packaged into fedora
21:54:54 <heffer> <mchua> and how do I do that?
21:55:19 <heffer> <SMParrish> just join the talk by Yaakov Nemoy and Rex Dieter on packaging
21:56:03 <mchua> (thanks heffer)
21:56:13 <mchua> sdz talking about the 4th grade math curriculum project
21:57:33 <heffer> <mchua> what we're really weak on is curriculum
21:57:46 <heffer> <mchua> we need people who do not necessarily do code
21:58:02 <heffer> <mchua> packaging an activity is a good point to start
21:58:45 <mchua> Helping to figure out the logistics of a deployment is also a good place to start.
21:58:53 <mchua> That deployment can be you. Your kid.  Your sister, your brother, your little cousin.
22:00:48 <heffer> <mchua> we need feedback from people sitting down with a child for an hour or so and just testing an playing with sugar
22:01:09 <mchua> and emailing a list - hang on I'll ge tthe list
22:01:21 <mchua> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
22:01:32 <mchua> #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep play-test feedback goes here.
22:01:42 <pcalarco> #endmeeting