20:15:25 #startmeeting 20:15:25 Meeting started Sun Jan 30 20:15:25 2011 UTC. The chair is tflink. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:15:25 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:15:44 ==> starting lightning talks 20:16:02 #topic lightning talks 20:16:13 Jon stanley is talking 20:16:27 sorry - seth vidal 20:16:49 he has an idea that he wants to work with - friends on jabber 20:17:06 that are all kept track of in our own accounts but we might want to keep track of our friends 20:17:21 jabber clients can send status off to the server - what is happening with my friends 20:17:41 he is looking at the idea of collecting this data for at least subsets of the fedora community 20:18:09 so I have my own friends roster, show everything that my roster and an external roster (ex sysadmins) did today 20:18:25 the idea would be to be able to do this without a huge amount of additional infrastructure 20:18:43 is there enough interest to keep this going forward? 20:19:31 #topic cloud computing: why you should give a damn 20:19:40 mike mc grath 20:20:05 why should devs should care: even if you don't care, the decision makers will because it is cheaper 20:20:23 as a dev, you will have to understand this new infrastructure so that you can work with them and around them 20:20:41 a sysadmin will have to deal with this new method of infrastructure managment - provisioning, hardware 20:21:16 the current sysadmin setup is inefficient and there will probably be less of a need for sysadmins going forward 20:21:27 which is why I am trying to get into more engineering 20:21:59 there are a lot of nay-sayers for open standards and free software in the current envoronment 20:22:15 it will be worse in the cloud, where you may not even have control of your own data 20:22:43 I think taht it will involve a shift towards more open standards so that people can have their own implementation that allows for moving between impelemtnation 20:23:01 as freedom fighters, that will be our next task ==> fighting for open standards 20:23:05 OK, I'm done! 20:23:16 #topic Eclipse Fedora Tools 20:23:24 * there is a presentation for this talk 20:23:39 *possibly interperative dance, too. not sure 20:23:54 something that you may now know about in exlipse is a rpm SPEC file editor 20:24:19 this has cool stuff like code completion that queries RPM databases and yum repos to find available packages 20:24:28 there is also syntax highlighting for errors 20:24:44 it can expand RPM macros that are defined 20:25:16 you can do a lot of the cool things taht you can do with eclipse - folding, outline etc. if you're not a vim/emacs master 20:25:32 one of the things that I want to talk about is integration with fedora infrastructure 20:25:41 including stuff for fedora packaging 20:25:57 if you install eclipse from fedora, you can import packages from fedora git 20:26:23 so you get a proper clone from git, and do everything that I would otherwise be expecting to do with a git checkout 20:26:44 you can push to koji, perform scratch build, create new bodhi update among other things 20:27:02 some parts of this will only show up if you have commit rights for the fedora projects 20:27:12 everyone will have access to stuff like: build SRPMs 20:27:25 * is talking about the presentation he didn't get to make - way too fast for me to type 20:27:38 who is this not for - those who use runlevel 3, eclipse haters etc. 20:28:12 there is a mailing list: eclipse-fedorapackager, trac: eclipse-fedorapackager 20:28:18 * lots of applause 20:28:43 #topic Contributing to infrastructure 20:28:59 so, who can contribute to infrastructure? 20:29:07 you can - sysadmin, moderator etc. 20:29:20 histroically, we've done a bad job of mentoring new people and I'd like to change that 20:29:33 but I don't have a whole lot of time so forgive me if I don't get to you 20:29:51 but I will make a concerned effort on the sysadmin side and toshio is good about it 20:30:17 basically anything that requires a computer - wiki, git, bodhi etc. is part of the infrastructure 20:30:25 what skill sets would we like? 20:30:40 if you're looking to get a service provided, the best way would be to do it yourself 20:30:57 if you're looking to hack on existing stuff, pretty much everything is in turbogears and python 20:31:20 we do have a mailing list, but IRC #fedora-admin is where we get more of our work done since its in real time 20:31:28 if you're interested, talk to me on IRC 20:32:52 #topic eucalyptus 20:33:23 I want to mention what eucalyptus does, so I want to show off our community cloud 20:33:45 this is where anyone can apply for an account and figure out what the cloud is all about 20:33:52 but your instance will be killed in about 6 hours 20:34:01 we have pretty strict rules about what you can do for free 20:34:28 * showing diagram about network structure 20:35:05 you might be asking about what this has to do with fedora 20:35:18 we do have fedora packages that are pretty old and I apologize for that 20:35:26 but we are trying to get into newer versions of fedora 20:35:32 *q - are you in EPEL? 20:35:57 not yet, we have about 150 deps for eucalyptus so we need to get all that done 20:36:20 we are trying to get into fedora before EPEL (about 25 packages remaining) 20:36:39 * q - you said that it would be killed in 6 hours, can I transfer that to my own box? 20:36:49 yeah, that is the idea. we want you to bring your own box 20:37:03 #topic smooge explaining something as an ambassador 20:37:25 * pretty background on projector 20:37:50 * the background is a nova from a long time ago 20:38:02 on monday, there was an account compromise 20:38:13 someone emailed us and told us tha tsomeone changed their password 20:38:32 we did some locking, fixing and said taht we would make a full report here 20:38:45 as far as we know (high confidence) there were no packages compromised 20:39:05 they were only able to get into a bit of the fedorapeople server but were caught shortly after that 20:39:10 *q - how did he get around the ssh key 20:39:22 he was able to change the ssh key because he had the password of a user 20:39:38 * q- is the ability for an ssh key to be changed from a password 20:39:49 yes, but it is required and managed. an email goes out when the key is changed 20:40:12 * q - what about approving the changes 20:40:33 that wouldn't work so well because of the high volume - forgot keys, lost keys etc. would be very hard to tell legit from non-legit 20:41:11 suggestions: watch your email, be aware of what is going on with your account 20:41:21 if you're using an ssh key, make sure that you have a password for it 20:41:21 * nb thinks a lot depends on the security of one's FAS password 20:41:44 the person whose account was compromise was paying close attention (theory was that keylogger was user) 20:41:49 it was a weak password 20:42:20 oh 20:42:21 *c - suggestion that a _TRULY_ random password would be best 20:42:36 yes, it would be a good thing to have better passwords 20:43:02 while the system was using SELinux and while that did help contain damage it couldn't prevent the breach in the first place 20:43:07 ==> time up 20:43:39 #topic fedora medical team 20:44:00 I have gone to conference, talked to doctors and the real problem in adopting FOSS is drivers 20:44:18 the companies that produce the HW say that nobody is using FOSS, aren't going to open the drivers 20:44:28 these devices are really expensive 20:44:50 there is some software out there (debian-medical group) but we REALLY need people to package these drivers for fedora 20:45:13 if we can get these packaged, we can start making the case to these companies that people are using FOSS in the medical community 20:45:28 I have been packaging things, but I need help to package and with package reviews 20:45:56 * nb wonders if tflink could note who is doing the talks 20:46:05 nb: will try 20:46:13 ok thanks 20:46:35 there are doctors interested in helping, but need help here 20:46:53 * something about getting $$ together for a shirt to for tibbits for reviews 20:47:43 Is there a SIG or wiki page for the medical stuff? 20:47:56 brunowolff: not sure 20:48:05 #topic fedora infrastructure and python 20:48:11 speaker - toshio 20:48:40 we have a whole bunch of snippets of pyhon code in fedora infrastructure dealing with unicode 20:49:01 so we put a package together called kitchen which is a collection of this stuff 20:49:39 brunowolff: I will point the speaker at IRC when I get a chance, he should know more 20:49:52 the speaker about the fedora medical stuff 20:50:05 * there is currently a demo on the screen, will try to keep up 20:50:11 Thanks. 20:50:34 say you have an app, and it works and whatnot, but you wan to localize it 20:51:12 I need to do something with gettext that I found from somewhere in the fedora project, find all the stuff that I need 20:51:27 it looks good, everything is going to be substituted and work perfectly 20:51:38 but, when you run this ... 20:52:24 * waiting - usual demo gremlins 20:53:07 what is supposed to happen is that it would look up the .jp string but it will throw a unicode error 20:53:29 brunowolff: susmit was the speaker for fedora medical 20:53:46 so we have some stuff in kitchen to make this easier 20:53:52 * out of time -- done 20:53:57 susmit: Do you guys have a list of packages on wiki page? 20:54:06 #topic the dreyfus mode 20:54:12 model not mode 20:54:17 speaker: mel chua 20:54:29 brunowolff: yes, I do. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/FedoraMedical 20:54:42 I want to talk about something that I am often asked: Mel! Why don't ppl help me? 20:55:03 OK. Thanks. I don't promise to do something, but if I am looking for things to do, I'll take a look there. 20:55:14 ans: I have docs!, I don't bite on IRC! what's the isse? 20:55:14 Sure, thanks a lot. 20:55:37 and I think that I'm starting to understand the problem 20:55:50 for example, I'm terrible in the kitchen - I touch an oven and it blows up 20:56:05 so imagine that I wanted to bake, and was directed to a wiki that said: 20:56:10 CROISSANT: 20:56:13 - flout 20:56:17 - butter 20:56:20 - stuff 20:56:22 ---------------- 20:56:28 - Bake it! 20:56:34 - Ask for help if you need it 20:56:39 susmit: I don't see a wish list for reviews or new things to be packaged? 20:56:48 but I have no idea what a croissant is - is it bread? 20:57:03 * she is modifying the list on the board, will attempt to convey 20:57:24 so what would I need to understand this list better (as a non-baker) 20:57:38 susmit: I see two listed now. I was expecting more when I was doing a first look. 20:57:41 add the ingreedients as a group clearly labeled as ingreedients 20:57:54 also, do I need an oven for this baking 20:58:12 which could be an analogy for python 20:58:22 do I have python? yes, but that would be nice to have it spelled 20:58:33 some people don't know what compile means 20:58:33 brunowolff: Please look under "Workflow/Groups" 20:58:59 There is other missing information in our bread recipe, like time to bake, temp 20:59:14 That's what I was looking for. I was expecting that to be something else. 20:59:18 basically - I don't want to spend time asking for help while my oven is on 20:59:27 I want to know ahread of time 20:59:37 look on wikipedia for more info on the dreyfus method 20:59:52 #topic ambassadorship, events and you 20:59:59 brunowolff: I am in process of moving those to a trac that we have. 21:00:01 speaker - clint savage, larry cahero 21:00:19 we have all sorts of events in the open source community 21:00:37 one of the things that I have been thinking about is participating in events that may not have a technical focus 21:00:48 and start representing FOSS at these events 21:01:10 the idea would be to start talking about FOSS and fedora at events that are interesting to members of the community 21:01:40 larry (l) - one thing that we did in the past is to have a table at the farmers' market to give out free software 21:01:56 l: so that when you pick up your organic lettuce, you get your organic software, too 21:02:17 l: there are a lot of tech events and non-tech events where we could be spreading the word about free software 21:02:26 l: we have been talking about comic-con etc. 21:02:59 l: clint is more of an ambassador than I am but even if you aren't an official ambassador, you can still promote fedora at events that are tech and non-tech related 21:03:18 l: we want to start thinking outside the box a bit about the places where we are promoting fedora 21:03:45 clint (c): so we want to start expanding - for example, (missed name) is going to sxsw this year 21:03:53 *q - what is sxsw? 21:04:08 me notes that if you are working in any other group, ambassadors group has a real low barrier for you. 21:04:16 c: sxsw is a gathering of artists 21:04:27 c: other examples would be getting media for your local LUG 21:04:38 c: we don't really know what we want to go into 21:04:50 l: but we want your input and help to figure out where to go with this 21:05:22 ==> we raised $26 to get 10 package reviews for fedora medical from tibbs 21:05:56 there will be a trackback in bugzilla for fedora-medical shortly 21:06:10 Great !!!! 21:06:33 ian weller is the coordinator for these lightning talks for FUDCon and this was a first 21:06:55 if you're interested in similar stuff in the future, let him know 21:07:55 ** I missed this in real time, but the $26 was about tibbs (not sure if I spelled this right) saying that he would do 10 package reviews in exchange for a certain type of shirt - they started collecting $$ in the room at that time to buy a shirt in exchange for reviews 21:08:10 the hotdog shirt 21:08:16 the mustard indicates progress :) 21:08:33 ==> the lightning talks are now done, if I missed some piece of information, let me know. I'm sure that I missed something 21:08:43 I will be posting the meetbot logs on the wiki 21:08:47 #endmeeting