17:01:26 <jsmith> #startmeeting FUDCon Subsidy Meeting
17:01:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep 14 17:01:26 2010 UTC.  The chair is jsmith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:36 <jsmith> #chair stickster
17:01:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: jsmith stickster
17:01:51 <jsmith> #meetingname Subsidy Meeting Three
17:01:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'subsidy_meeting_three'
17:02:08 <jsmith> Alrighty folks...
17:02:20 <rbergeron> what's the link for the subsidy worksheet again?
17:02:32 <stickster> http://tinyurl.com/fudcon-tempe-subods
17:02:42 <SMParrish> Tickets to discuss are here  https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/report/13
17:03:02 <inode0> whoa, remaining dropped substantially from my last visit
17:03:22 * rrix sits in the back with a $caffeinated_beverage
17:03:26 <stickster> SMParrish: Added you to the edit list
17:03:59 <biertie> inode0: but there is a holdback, that is already in the spended budget  cell I think
17:04:09 <SMParrish> stickster: Thanks
17:04:11 <biertie> *granted cell
17:04:57 <inode0> we can clean up a few of the ones we've discussed before quickly I think
17:05:01 <rbergeron> what's the european/NA holdback for?
17:05:09 * rbergeron is confuzzled or forgetful, possibly both
17:05:17 <rbergeron> F25
17:06:02 <biertie> rbergeron: forgetful ;-)
17:06:11 <biertie> we still needed some input from mr Robinsson
17:06:13 <stickster> jsmith: Was the European holdback for specific people, or just a general pot of money?
17:06:16 * inode0 suggests beginning with lcafiero and djf_jeff as cleanup
17:06:28 <rbergeron> ahhhh
17:06:34 <jsmith> stickster: Peter Robinson and biertie
17:07:14 <stickster> inode0: +1
17:07:43 <jsmith> I think that's a great idea
17:07:47 <jsmith> Let's do some quick clean-up
17:08:10 <jsmith> #info ticket 16 - Peter Robinson
17:08:23 <jsmith> #undo
17:08:23 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2b7d2f40afd0>
17:08:29 <jsmith> #topic ticket 16 - Peter Robinson
17:08:54 * jsmith waits for zodbot to catch up
17:09:06 <jsmith> SMParrish: Did you hear back from Sugar Labs?
17:09:08 <SMParrish> Still awaiting word from Walter Bender at SL about covering Peter's airfare but he did not see an issue getting the funds.  So I say we just need to cover his hotel
17:09:45 * inode0 thinks he was misunderstood but +1 to Peter's room
17:09:59 <stickster> Walter's a pretty busy guy so it's not a bad idea to re-ping him. If he believes it's not a problem, let's go for Peter's hotel room now.
17:10:05 <jsmith> inode0: I'm sorry -- what did you mean?
17:10:20 <stickster> jsmith: inode0 proposed starting with NA folks (lcafiero and djf_jeff)
17:10:29 <stickster> But either way, as long as we get through them.
17:10:32 <jsmith> Oh, sorry :-(
17:10:34 * jsmith didn't see that
17:11:04 <SMParrish> stickster: He is very busy.  He let me know a few days ago that it put through the funding request for the airfare
17:11:20 <jsmith> OK, let's look at NA folks then
17:11:29 <biertie> ok
17:11:37 <jsmith> #topic Remaining North American requests
17:12:28 <jsmith> Where would you like to start?
17:12:32 <jsmith> Finish up ticket #33?
17:12:42 <stickster> #20
17:12:47 <stickster> https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/20
17:12:51 <stickster> I think this is a formality at this point
17:13:07 <stickster> Is there anyone here who is *not* +1 to cover a room for lcafiero and his daughter?
17:13:15 <inode0> +1 for Larry and daughter
17:13:24 <stickster> +1
17:13:25 <jsmith> +1 from me
17:13:25 <gwerra> +1 from me
17:13:25 <rbergeron> +1
17:13:29 <rrix> 1
17:13:29 <stickster> disco
17:13:38 <SMParrish> +1
17:13:55 <biertie> +1
17:13:59 * stickster leaves the zodbotting to jsmith
17:14:45 <jsmith> OK, on to number #33
17:15:18 <stickster> #agreed lcafiero +1 receives $480 for hotel coverage
17:15:28 * stickster fixes ticke
17:15:30 <stickster> *ticket
17:15:39 <jsmith> #topic Ticket 33: Jean-Francois Saucier
17:15:40 <inode0> I will propose we split the cost of the ticket and pick up the room for djf_jeff
17:15:53 <inode0> That is in line with other NA help I think
17:16:00 * stickster is setting tickets to the milestone for the proper quarter's spending (taking them off the subsidy milestone), and resetting to normal priority.
17:16:10 <jsmith> We held back $445 in our last meeting
17:16:34 <jsmith> Covering his room and half of his plane ticket would obviously be more than that
17:16:37 <stickster> #info When a subsidy is approved, move tickets to the milestone for the proper quarter's spending (taking them off the subsidy milestone), and reset to normal priority. Airfares are "now" and block Q3, hotel blocks Q4.
17:16:58 <jsmith> stickster: Oh, we need separate tickets for airfare and hotel room?
17:17:04 * jsmith is confused
17:17:19 <inode0> well, if there are enough funds I am not opposed to fully funding this either :)
17:17:21 <stickster> jsmith: If the ticket is together, block the earlier milestone now
17:17:28 <jsmith> stickster: Gotcha
17:17:44 <jsmith> inode0: That's the question though -- is there enough?
17:17:44 <stickster> inode0: jsmith: For jfsaucier, looks like we held back 1/2 the total cost, as opposed to the room + 1/2 the airfare
17:17:49 <stickster> jsmith: Ys.
17:17:51 <stickster> *yes.
17:17:55 * stickster fires another typist.
17:18:05 <jsmith> I see a lot of other requests not on the spreadsheet yet
17:18:20 <gwerra> jsmith: https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/report/13
17:18:23 <stickster> jsmith: Do you feel that we have done a fair share of making noise about FUDCon subsidies?
17:18:39 <jsmith> Honestly, I'd rather stack them up against each other and vote for the highest priority, rather than go through ticket by ticket in order
17:18:48 <jsmith> stickster: Absolutely...
17:18:51 <rbergeron> i think jsmith means we still have remaining tickets to get through and ... 700 bucks left.
17:19:01 <jsmith> rbergeron: Yes, that's exactly what I meant :-)
17:19:09 <rbergeron> now, we could wind up having more money as soon as all the giant corporations of the world come through.
17:19:27 <stickster> rbergeron: In truth we probably have a bit more than 700 bucks. The total of $8500 comes from the budget estimates.
17:19:29 <rbergeron> So we could just mark a cutoff line and say you're next in line to get funded after miraclemoney comes through.
17:19:34 <rbergeron> stickster: I agree
17:19:49 <rbergeron> maybe a cutoff line saying "this is where our current marked budget ends" and then we can redraw tht line as we keep going.
17:20:14 <rbergeron> ie: you're approved, pending money :)
17:20:36 <biertie> rbergeron: +1
17:21:15 <rbergeron> wrt priority: i think we would be better off to approve things as they've come in request-wise, but some priority given to NA folks obviously.
17:21:37 <rbergeron> people have known about filing subsidy requests for a while; i don't want to be in the habit of saying "well, we give slack to some people on filing tickets"
17:21:46 <rbergeron> that just sets a bad precedent for allowing people to be lazy :)
17:21:50 <rbergeron> imo
17:21:51 <jsmith> Right...
17:21:52 <stickster> rbergeron: +1
17:22:04 <jsmith> Especially when we made a call to people and said "There's a bit left, but get your act together now"
17:22:30 <inode0> if we do that let's unreserve all the reserved funds so we can see what we really have
17:22:32 <jsmith> OK, since logistically it's going to be a bit tough to buy half of a plane ticket, what if we buy all of Jeff's plane ticket and have him pick up the hotel room himself?
17:22:40 <stickster> inode0: I think that's the right move.
17:23:06 <stickster> jsmith: +1 on just buying Jeff's plane ticket. It should be easier for him to split hotel with someone than for us to split a plane ticket with him.
17:23:18 <inode0> but since we've discussed this ticket previously, I'd like to finish it before doing that
17:23:35 <inode0> stickster: I'm +1 for that too
17:23:45 <rbergeron> inode0: yes, stickster: yes
17:23:46 <SMParrish> same here +1
17:23:47 <jsmith> Any objections?
17:23:50 * rbergeron holds up her +1 sign
17:23:55 <gwerra> +1
17:23:58 <stickster> inode0: Yup, let's finish up Jeff's issue and then recalibrate the fund-o-meter
17:24:03 <jsmith> OK, Jeff's plane ticket is approved
17:24:08 <jsmith> stickster: Do you mind updating the ticket?
17:24:35 <jsmith> #agreed Ticket 33: Pay for Jeff's plane ticket, have him pay for room himself
17:24:47 * stickster fixes spreadsheet
17:25:09 * jsmith wonders why he keeps thinking the name is Jeff -- it's Jean-Francois
17:25:17 <jsmith> I'm totally made out of fail today
17:25:44 <jsmith> #info jsmith is totally made out of "fail" today
17:25:53 <gwerra> jsmith: #undo and redo ?
17:25:54 <nb> jsmith, because i think his fas name is djf jeff :)
17:26:06 * stickster does the same thing thinking about djf_jeff
17:26:20 <stickster> #info stickster has updated spreadsheet and the ticket appropriately
17:27:02 <gwerra> stickster: you wrote jeff in the ticket too
17:27:09 <stickster> oops
17:27:14 * jsmith blames stickster
17:27:26 <jsmith> OK, time to reset the fund-o-meter
17:27:54 * stickster leaves conciliatory note in ticket 33
17:28:12 * stickster just removes the holdback row
17:28:29 <jsmith> OK, that gives us a bit more to play with
17:28:53 <gwerra> ticket 16 was not updated?
17:28:59 <jsmith> Next in numerical order is ticket #44
17:29:07 <jsmith> Sorry, number 40
17:29:14 <jsmith> #topic Ticket 40: Rex Dieter
17:29:38 <inode0> what are we doing now? making a list or what?
17:29:58 <stickster> jsmith: Did you want to go in order, or are we considering priorities against the whole group of people who are left?
17:30:50 <stickster> gwerra: I'm updating ticket 16 now
17:30:59 <jsmith> stickster: Good question... I suggested going in priority order, but someone else wanted to go in numerical order (based on when they put their request in)
17:31:02 <jsmith> I'm game for either
17:31:18 <gwerra> jsmith: Numerical order is the best
17:31:25 <biertie> so, why do you remove the holdback row?
17:31:39 <rbergeron> i'd suggest going in numerical order, but skipping hte non-NA folks to the end
17:32:05 <inode0> 40 and 42 are the last NA tickets and neither is overly expensive IMO
17:32:29 <inode0> and both contributors I think are important to help
17:32:59 <stickster> We have a number of reps from different regions, and we should try and fit remaining NA folks into the remaining subsidy funds. Then we'll see what we can do for any remaining tickets.
17:33:08 <stickster> ^^ my $0.02
17:33:21 <stickster> s/reps/reps approved/
17:33:32 <SMParrish> stickster: +1
17:33:33 * rbergeron agrees with inode0 and stickster
17:33:47 * stickster is +1 to both Rex and Garrett
17:33:55 <stickster> fwiw
17:34:08 <gwerra> +1 to stickster inode0 Rex and Garrett
17:34:26 <jsmith> I'm fine with both of them
17:34:29 * inode0 is +1 to fully subsidizing both
17:34:33 * rbergeron is too
17:34:34 <SMParrish> +1 to both
17:35:19 <jsmith> #agreed Ticket 40: Funding for Rex Dieter approved
17:35:26 * stickster will update ticket and sheet
17:35:30 <jsmith> #agreed Ticket 42: Funding for Garrett Holmstrom approved
17:35:36 <rbergeron> fully or partially?
17:35:50 <gwerra> Fully
17:36:09 <inode0> his flight is cheap, I'm for doing all of it
17:36:21 * rbergeron is kosher with both, prefers fully, but we should note that since their requests both say they could do either
17:37:00 <inode0> both flights are cheap
17:37:25 <rbergeron> yup
17:37:44 <jsmith> OK, that leaves us with ~375 in the till
17:37:59 <gwerra> from what we have left, I see that ticket 41 can do a partial subsidy, cover his own fare, I think in the remaining budget we can pay his hotel
17:38:37 <inode0> Dave is just a no brainer to me if covering the hotel gets him here
17:38:47 <jsmith> gwerra: But we'd want to give priority to #16 and #34, wouldn't we?
17:38:52 <jsmith> As they had their requests in first?
17:39:16 <inode0> biertie is offering to do a lot and I'd like to see if we can scuffle up a plane ticket for him too, even if we run out today
17:39:31 <SMParrish> inode0: +1
17:40:01 <rbergeron> I thought #16 was already decided?
17:40:06 <gwerra> jsmith: 16 is done, and from the pot remaining not sure if we can get #34 in
17:40:18 <SMParrish> we agreed to cover pbrobinson's hotel on 16, SL has the airfare for now
17:40:19 <stickster> 16 is done.
17:40:23 <inode0> 34,41,55 seem left
17:40:24 <jsmith> rbergeron: We held back money for either #16 and/or #34
17:40:38 <jsmith> We weren't sure about Peter Robinson getting funding from Sugar Labs, etc.
17:40:53 <inode0> do we still have biertie's plane ticket held back now?
17:41:00 <biertie> I think so inode0  :-)
17:41:22 <SMParrish> jsmith: Walter has not confirmed the funds for peter's ticket but based on the conversation I dont see an issue atm
17:41:27 * inode0 is +1 to biertie's plane ticket and +1 to dcr226's hotel
17:41:31 <jsmith> inode0: No, we don't have it held back
17:41:40 * gwerra is +1 to both too
17:41:40 <jsmith> inode0: We deleted that line, when you wanted to reset the fund-o-meter
17:41:45 <inode0> ok
17:42:08 * inode0 is back to +1 for dcr226's hotel, and we try to get some funds for biertie's plane ticket :)
17:42:32 * dcr226 has to go out now, one way or the other I'll see you there guys - any help is greatly appreciated :)
17:42:45 <stickster> ticket #15 (magjogui) is still open for some reason, probably my fault. Did we decide to deny that at the 8/27 meeting?
17:43:12 <stickster> dcr226: Thanks for being here
17:43:41 <jsmith> stickster: On ticket 15, we said we'd come back to it if there were extra funds
17:43:45 <jsmith> stickster: (as I recall)
17:43:51 <rbergeron> stickster: i'll look at the log
17:44:49 <rbergeron> From what I can see in http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fudcon-planning/2010-08-27/fudcon_subsidies.2010-08-27-16.01.log.html
17:45:02 <rbergeron> we are bringing in guillermo, and commarch is bringing in igor
17:45:22 <rbergeron> and I think that boiled down to saying "we can only bring in so many people from other regions"
17:45:25 <jsmith> Correct
17:45:35 <inode0> my recollection was 15 was declined but with the intention of trying to help him get to the next LATAM FUDCon?!
17:45:36 <rbergeron> I don't see it as a "we'll revisit it" type of thing
17:45:48 <stickster> OK, I'll write that to the ticket
17:46:05 <rbergeron> yes, I think that is the case, though I don't know that NA folks have a huge say in who will be getting to the latam event other than we can of course recommend it :)
17:46:06 <jsmith> We already have two coming from LATAM, so I don't see how we could cover it
17:46:28 <inode0> we have more than two
17:46:42 <inode0> 5 at least
17:46:44 <rbergeron> yeah
17:47:28 <jsmith> Yes, although we agreed to consider some of those as NA, since their costs were small
17:47:32 <rbergeron> yes
17:47:43 <stickster> OK, back to the topic at hand
17:47:45 <rbergeron> I think it's all decided though. I think revisiting is just rehashing already made decisions
17:47:54 <stickster> We're at :47 and have... $375 left
17:48:02 <stickster> (although keep in mind that's somewhat of a soft limit)
17:48:07 * rbergeron nods
17:48:11 * jsmith hates soft limits
17:48:13 <stickster> We can probably squeeze in another airfare, just not 5 airfares.
17:48:34 <jsmith> So, it comes down to airfare for biertie, or hotel for dcr226?
17:48:52 <inode0> +1 for hotel for dcr226
17:48:58 <inode0> +1 to airfare for biertie
17:49:04 <gwerra> I am +1 to both
17:49:06 <jsmith> inode0: I'm not sure we can do both
17:49:11 * inode0 ands rather than ors
17:49:27 <inode0> $375 isn't a plane fare for bierties so
17:49:28 <jsmith> inode0: I'd love to do that as well, but that puts us $700 over
17:49:41 * jsmith likes living within a budget
17:50:05 <stickster> We need approx. $750 to accommodate dcr226 already.
17:50:08 <stickster> That's $375 over.
17:50:10 <inode0> as I said then, +1 to the in budget hotel for dcr226 and let's try to find the airfare for biertie
17:50:28 <jsmith> stickster: He said he'd be fine with a partial subsidy that covered his hotel.
17:50:33 <stickster> jsmith: Ah!
17:50:38 <stickster> I missed that, thanks
17:50:45 <gwerra> stickster: he is fine with only hotel
17:52:25 <SMParrish> gimme a sec to check current airfares on biertie's trip
17:52:38 <stickster> I see a number of goals on biertie's ticket that make me +1 for him.
17:53:20 <biertie> has the dollar changes his course (or the europe) my tickets seems to be 15usd more expensive now, (according to google), while the price in euro's is still the same :x
17:53:32 <jsmith> So, let's assume for a minute that it's an either/or decision between biertie's flight or dcr226's hotel.
17:53:40 <jsmith> Of course we'd love to cover both...
17:53:54 <jsmith> Assuming we can only choose one, we need to vote one way or the other
17:54:22 * inode0 passes on that vote not accepting the premise that we can't come up with $240 for dcr226 either way
17:54:23 * rbergeron is willing to yield her hotel/gas temporarily to squeeze them in since she doesn't have the dependency of "need to know so i can buy a plane ticket" - since she has faith that more budget will pop up in the form of awesome sponsorships... that would be $290.....
17:54:23 <stickster> If we *have* to take one or the other, I would say we should fund dcr226. We turned a couple LATAM folks down because we already had some other LATAM'ers covered. Not to do the same in EMEA would seem inequitable.
17:54:53 <jsmith> stickster: Sounds reasonable
17:54:55 <rbergeron> and if it doesn't pop up i have a really awesome air mattress......
17:54:57 <rbergeron> :)
17:54:58 <SMParrish> current airfare rfom bru is 627.50USD
17:55:24 <stickster> Every airfare we buy is really a Q3 cost, not a Q4 cost. So while it comes out of the same pot, we have to be sensitive to spevack's budget too.
17:55:40 <jsmith> Right...
17:56:29 * stickster moves that we accept biertie's request and then that's the cutoff, unless we get $miracle_money
17:56:43 <SMParrish> +1
17:56:50 * stickster notes he has a hard stop at :00
17:57:38 <biertie> ok, great! :-)
17:57:40 <jsmith> C'mon folks... we need a decision
17:57:55 <jsmith> Now is not the time to be wishy-washy
17:57:57 <stickster> rbergeron: inode0: gwerra: +/-1 please
17:58:08 <stickster> Oh wait, inode0 already +1'd this
17:58:18 <rbergeron> +1 to biertie
17:58:29 <inode0> I'm not sure where we are now - dcr226 is approved for hotel or not?
17:58:35 <gwerra> stickster: I am fine with anything here
17:58:35 <stickster> dcr226 we should be approving, period.
17:58:38 <jsmith> stickster: No, I think he +1 rcr226
17:58:43 <stickster> Let me clarify:
17:58:48 * jsmith is really confused
17:58:56 * gwerra is confused too
17:58:57 <inode0> if dcr226 is approved I am +1 for biertie's ticket
17:58:59 <stickster> I move that we pay dcr226's hotel, and that we take care of biertie's hotel + airfare.
17:59:16 <inode0> +1 to that as well
17:59:21 <stickster> jsmith?
17:59:31 <biertie> btw, I'm fine with airfare alone if that helps another contributor from NA
17:59:36 * gwerra is +1 to that
17:59:41 <rbergeron> +1
17:59:43 <rbergeron> ship it :)
17:59:50 <stickster> biertie: I wish you could have said that earlier so it wouldn't muddle the motion :-)
18:00:05 * stickster thinks the hotel room is not a big deal, biertie -- don't worry about it
18:00:12 <inode0> he did, that is why I was only +1'ing his airfare :)
18:00:13 <biertie> oh ok :-)
18:00:27 <stickster> inode0: I must have missed that, my bad
18:00:44 * stickster waits for jsmith to +/-1.
18:00:50 <jsmith> I'm worried about going over budget
18:01:08 <stickster> jsmith: Stop worrying.
18:01:12 <jsmith> +1 then
18:01:15 <stickster> +/-1 and let me worry about the money. :-)
18:01:18 <stickster> OK
18:01:21 <rbergeron> lol
18:01:28 <stickster> #agreed we'll fund dcr226 hotel room and biertie's airfare + hotel room
18:02:22 <jsmith> #topic Any other business?
18:02:25 * inode0 says sorry to those we couldn't help this year
18:02:41 * rbergeron says "we hope to have some sponsors soon and don't lose hope!"
18:02:56 <jsmith> #endmeeting