fudcon-planning
LOGS
14:12:45 <mchua> #startmeeting
14:12:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Jan 31 14:12:45 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:12:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:12:53 <mchua> #chair spevack RodrigoPadula dgilmore
14:12:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: RodrigoPadula dgilmore mchua spevack
14:17:53 <mchua> I'm pulling together a list of the pages/resources we have right now, so you folks have a list of things from which to work.
14:18:15 <mchua> (It's a temporary hack - these pages need to be properly linked to each other and categorized and whatnot - but I'm just dumping all the links into one section of the Events FAD page for now.)
14:19:33 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, ok
14:24:44 * spevack does a bit of editing of the main FUDCon Santiago page
14:24:55 <spevack> and start working up a list of questions for Rodrigo
14:25:57 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: does Antonio Salles call himself Sebastian?  Why is that the name you have listed?
14:25:58 <mchua> spevack: I'm still cleaning up links (and fixing typos) but https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#Pages_we.27ve_worked_on is a handy dandy reference list, mostly pulled from your email right now.
14:26:37 <RodrigoPadula> Antonio Sebastian Salles
14:26:53 <RodrigoPadula> asalles en el IRC
14:27:21 <RodrigoPadula> Sebá para nosotros :-)
14:29:33 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: http://www.ucentral.cl/prontus_ucentral/site/edic/base/port/inicio.html
14:29:37 <spevack> this is the right university?
14:30:20 <RodrigoPadula> yep
14:30:43 <RodrigoPadula> Sebastian works for Red Hat in chile
14:31:16 <RodrigoPadula> and he is responsible by the local fedora team and the LUG UCENTUX in the Universidad Central
14:33:26 * mchua will be lurking and working on other FAD stuff, but ping if needed (particularly if we need to quickly revise any of the docs you're using for reference).
14:35:54 <loupgaroublond> 0/g 2
14:36:19 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: here's the first thing that you can do:
14:36:35 <spevack> Remind me EXACTLY what the possible dates you are thinking about for FUDCon are, and then let's figure out how to decide
14:37:09 <RodrigoPadula> The idea is to realize the FUDCOn one week before or after fisl
14:37:20 <spevack> right -- so how will we decide which one?
14:37:39 <RodrigoPadula> based on Budget
14:37:49 <RodrigoPadula> and the people that are interested to attend
14:37:55 <RodrigoPadula> specially from USA/Europe
14:38:10 <RodrigoPadula> people that will be supported with our budget
14:38:20 <spevack> when is fisl?
14:38:28 <RodrigoPadula> 21 - 24 July
14:39:09 <spevack> where is the website for FISL?
14:39:11 <spevack> so we can link to it>
14:41:17 <ke4qqq> http://fisl.softwarelivre.org/10/www/
14:41:29 <spevack> 10 was last year?
14:41:53 <spevack> so, they haven't officially announced those dates of 21 - 24 July yet?
14:42:01 <spevack> how can we be 100% sure?
14:42:05 <RodrigoPadula> the site is under construction
14:42:07 <ke4qqq> yes, but they haven't removed anything
14:42:08 <spevack> ok
14:42:13 <RodrigoPadula> but the official announcemente was published
14:42:34 <spevack> So we need to do FUDCon 17-19 July, IMHO
14:42:53 <RodrigoPadula> http://softwarelivre.org/portal/comunidade/definida-a-data-do-forum-internacional-software-livre-2010
14:43:23 <spevack> then people can travel on 20 July, and still get to FISL on time.
14:43:53 <spevack> what do you think, RodrigoPadula
14:45:14 <RodrigoPadula> I think we can do 14-16 or 29-31
14:45:41 <spevack> what will people do with all the time in between?
14:46:02 <RodrigoPadula> help to finish the other event ?
14:46:36 <RodrigoPadula> we need some days between to fix any problem
14:47:16 <spevack> You are hoping that people will go to BOTH FUDCon and FISL, right?
14:47:38 <RodrigoPadula> some people , sure
14:47:42 <spevack> And you think that someone who comes to one of those two events will want to hang out for 4 days or 5 days until the next one starts?  I think the person will go home :)
14:47:53 <RodrigoPadula> as I told you, July is vacations month in Latam
14:48:45 <spevack> Are there any dates from the University that are good or bad?  Do they care when we have FUDCon?
14:48:57 <RodrigoPadula> yes
14:49:18 <RodrigoPadula> because is very complicated to do the event during the week by example
14:49:24 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: let me put it this way -- anyone from USA/Europe who comes will not be able to wait 4 or 5 days between FUDCon and FISL, I think.  dgilmore what do you think?
14:49:31 <RodrigoPadula> when the students are in the university using all the infra
14:49:53 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: if it is complicated to do it during the week, why are you suggesting 14-16, which is Wednesday - Friday?
14:50:14 <RodrigoPadula> the FISL for example is very tiring
14:50:36 <RodrigoPadula> during the week when people is using the infra
14:50:45 <RodrigoPadula> July they will be in vacations
14:52:15 <spevack> do you think the wiki page needs to be written in Spanish?
14:52:31 <spevack> or is english ok?
14:52:32 <dgilmore> spevack: While i would need to either travel and stay at someones house or stay in a hotel for extra time. i could work from there.  however that all means extra cost.  whihc probably means going to only one
14:52:50 <RodrigoPadula> I think we can write in english
14:53:06 <RodrigoPadula> I will provide info in portuguese and spanish to our local lists
14:53:07 <dgilmore> spevack: I think it should be written in english.  maybe with portugese and spanish translations
14:53:16 <RodrigoPadula> giving all orientations
14:54:28 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, I have to know we will organise something like the last years for FISL
14:54:42 <RodrigoPadula> so, if we will invite people from USA to attend FISL
14:54:52 <RodrigoPadula> and invite people to attend FUDCon
14:55:12 <RodrigoPadula> will be more cheap to invite the same people to come and stay for 2 events
14:56:06 <RodrigoPadula> the local people will pay by extra time
14:56:27 <RodrigoPadula> We will support only people from USA that come to attend the 2 events
14:56:44 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: what makes the weekend better for the university than during the week if they are closed on vacations?
14:57:05 <RodrigoPadula> they are not completely closed
14:58:00 <RodrigoPadula> the Latam universities works normally all the year from Monday to Friday
14:58:23 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: doing 3 days means we are on one week day
14:59:20 <RodrigoPadula> the idea is to realize the event from Thursday to Saturday
14:59:23 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: let me ask you a question.
14:59:31 <RodrigoPadula> like all events in Brazil and Latam
14:59:47 <spevack> Can you get Sebastian here, since he is the University Guy, to tell us what dates are 100% best for the university?
14:59:48 <RodrigoPadula> that starts on Wednesday or thursday and goes until Saturday
15:00:06 <RodrigoPadula> I had that conversation with him
15:00:16 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: i think 17-19 would be good
15:01:04 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: a few minutes ago you said 14-16 july
15:01:08 <spevack> now you said thursday - saturday
15:01:10 <spevack> which is 15 - 17
15:01:39 <RodrigoPadula> ops.. 15 - 17
15:01:42 <RodrigoPadula> my bad
15:02:32 <RodrigoPadula> Monday and Sunday are not good days for events :-)
15:03:20 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010#Location
15:04:18 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: also, finish filling out your registration, so we can see if it makes sense ;)
15:04:29 <RodrigoPadula> ok
15:04:36 <RodrigoPadula> I will talk with Sebastian again
15:04:44 <RodrigoPadula> and with the people that are interested to attend
15:04:57 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: I think we should all talk to him together
15:05:17 <RodrigoPadula> ok
15:06:31 <RodrigoPadula> So, we need to schedule a meeting with him
15:06:51 <RodrigoPadula> Tomorrow I will try to talk with him
15:06:58 <RodrigoPadula> or, you can send one email
15:07:27 <RodrigoPadula> asalles@redhat.com
15:10:09 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, do you have idea of the amount of budget that we will have disponible for FISL and for FUDCon ?
15:10:55 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: do you have an idea of how much budget RH LATAM is going to provide first?
15:11:05 <spevack> Then we will provide the rest?
15:11:12 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: where is your budget plan for FY11?
15:11:33 <spevack> YOU are in charge of Community in LATAM.  You should have the budget plan that shows "I need $X from RH LATAM and $Y from CommArch"
15:12:18 <RodrigoPadula> the problem is: we dont have a budget form Latam defined by Martin
15:12:32 <RodrigoPadula> * for
15:12:42 * mchua /win 35
15:12:48 <mchua> whoops. sorry, irssi slip.
15:13:29 <RodrigoPadula> I can't make a plan without budget
15:14:02 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: i understand that.
15:14:34 <spevack> But whe *I* need to make a plan, I don't say to my boss "how much budget can I have?"  I *make a plan* and say "do you like this plan?  If you do, then here is how much budget I need."
15:14:45 * mchua pokes head in. Could I request some QA for the stuff we're making for the FAD?
15:15:01 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, sure
15:15:09 <mchua> It's meant to be a resource/guide for making FUDCons, so it might not be a bad idea to use it so y'all can tell me and ctyler what to fix, while we're still working on it. ;)
15:15:13 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
15:15:22 <RodrigoPadula> but in all conversations that I have I received one "Talk to max about budget"
15:15:31 <RodrigoPadula> * I had
15:15:36 <spevack> I'd say we're at the "Decision" point in your process, mchua
15:16:16 <spevack> But RodrigoPadula until we have an idea of hotel costs, food costs, social event ideas -- it is *impossible* to have any fixed budget.
15:16:23 <spevack> YOU HAVE RESEARCH TO DO.
15:16:31 <spevack> THIS IS WHAT THE LOCAL TEAM OF PEOPLE IN CHILE IS SUPPOSED TO HELP YOU WITH
15:16:43 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, sur, but we need to have a number I think
15:16:50 <RodrigoPadula> like past year
15:16:57 <mchua> spevack, RodrigoPadula: what would be helpful to myself and Chris, if you have time, is to walk through that schedule and talk about what that process will look like for FUDCon LATAM specifically.
15:17:44 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, ok
15:17:44 <mchua> Such as: what do the FUDCon LATAM bids look like when put into the format specified in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process ?
15:17:47 <mchua> (and does that format help?)
15:17:55 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: you need to work out what you want to do what it will cost.  then it can be evaluated and given a yes/no.  the plans can then be adjusted to suit what comes back.
15:17:56 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: well, if we're just going to make up numbers, why don't you make one up.  you pick one :)
15:17:57 <mchua> (the format: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process#Proposal_Process:)
15:18:42 <RodrigoPadula> I have all prices of hotels and air tickets
15:18:49 <spevack> then why isn't it on the wiki page?
15:19:07 <RodrigoPadula> because it was created yesterday :-)
15:19:10 <spevack> until you share what you already know in your head, we can't help you!  :)
15:19:13 <mchua> ...I know you haven't got a location yet, but after figuring out what #actions to line up to go through the decision process, walking through https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process#FUDcon_Team_General_Planning_Schedule and saying "what does this look like? who would do it?" for each bullet point would be really, really helpful.
15:20:57 <spevack> mchua: you envision a list of cities, each of which provides a certain chunk of information?
15:22:13 <mchua> spevack: Yes.
15:22:28 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: i want to help you, but I don't understand *HOW* I can help you.
15:22:41 <mchua> spevack: Well, as "upstream" for the FUDCon Planning Process, I'm less concerned with the individual cities data, and whether the process we've created is the right one.
15:22:50 <spevack> I've been working on FUDCon LATAM stuff for an hour, and every single thing I've done is something that you could have already done yourself.
15:22:51 <mchua> spevack: may I suggest something?
15:22:56 <spevack> sure
15:23:13 <spevack> mchua: i think the questions you ask in "proposal process" are great
15:23:21 <spevack> and that RodrigoPadula should answer each one of them for Chile
15:24:07 <mchua> I think I remember spevack saying, the other day, something like "when dgilmore and I talk with RodrigoPadula about FUDCon LATAM, the help we're going to be giving is 'we give resources for FUDCons via this process... how closely are you following the process, and how can we help you follow the process - or how can we fix the process, if it's broken?"
15:24:21 * mchua paraphrasing a lot, since I don't remember the exact wording.
15:24:38 <spevack> right
15:24:58 <mchua> So in my mind, the question about budget is a "look at the wiki page for process. Where do you get to the budget part? Are we at that point now, and have we fulfilled the prerequisites necessary to get to the budget part?" question.
15:25:15 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: i think the very next thing that you should do is look at the questions https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process#Proposal_Process:
15:25:22 <spevack> and produce the answers for Santiago
15:25:29 <mchua> And if Chris and I have totally screwed up what the budget part should look like, and when it should be handled, then that's something you have to let us know so we can fix it.
15:25:36 <spevack> because that is the first step of the "choosing a location" process, and we need that information first.
15:25:45 <spevack> A lot of that information goes right on to the FUDCon Santiago page anyway.
15:25:51 <RodrigoPadula> Brasil -> Santiago   US$420,00
15:25:51 <RodrigoPadula> Argentina -> Santiago  US$160.00
15:25:51 <RodrigoPadula> Paraguay -> Santiago  US$250.00
15:25:51 <RodrigoPadula> Peru -> Santiago   US$240.00
15:25:51 <RodrigoPadula> Venezuela -> Santiago US$810.00
15:25:52 <RodrigoPadula> Mexico -> Santiago US$950.00
15:25:54 <RodrigoPadula> Raleigh USA -> Santiago  $US1300.00
15:26:01 <RodrigoPadula> I found the spreadsheet
15:26:27 <RodrigoPadula> these are the costs for flights from many countries to Santiago - Chile in July
15:26:50 <RodrigoPadula> the hotel cost is ~US$120 single room
15:27:08 <RodrigoPadula> and US$160.00 double
15:28:47 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: we should use double/triple sharing of rooms
15:28:49 <mchua> RodrigoPadula, would you mind if I made a section on the FUDCon LATAM planning wiki page for this information (and put a link to "this information is from following the bid process" at the top) so we have an example of a FUDCon beginning to work through this process?
15:29:00 <RodrigoPadula> dgilmore, sure
15:29:06 <RodrigoPadula> Like in FISL we will do it
15:29:55 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, ok, I will read all the wiki and use it as reference
15:31:44 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Thanks. In the meantime, I'll start a section for the bid answers - I'll be back in a few minutes with a link, and then you can tell me whether it's ok.
15:32:01 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, ok
15:35:48 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: another suggestion that I would recommend is that you have EVERY CONVERSATION with anyone related to FUDCon Santiago on the fudcon-planning list, or on IRC, and then you post the log to the list.
15:35:59 <spevack> You should not have any more private conversations about FUDCon Santiago that don't get shared.
15:36:04 <spevack> mchua: your thoughts on the above?
15:36:13 <spevack> because it just makes information sharing so much harder.
15:36:19 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, ok, but some conversations are in portuguese and spanish
15:36:23 <spevack> that's ok
15:36:29 <spevack> we can still translate it and have some information
15:36:33 <spevack> and that's better than zero information
15:36:50 <dgilmore> spevack: i fully agree
15:37:06 <dgilmore> ugese or spanish is fine
15:37:09 <RodrigoPadula> it will be complicated to do, but ok
15:37:24 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: part of the issue we're having today, and part of the reason why I feel frustrated, is because I feel like I have no information, but yet I am expected to make decisions.
15:37:25 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: portugese or spanish is fine on fudcon-planning
15:37:38 <spevack> I'm not frustrated w/ you, Rodrigo.  Just the situation.
15:37:39 <spevack> :)
15:37:46 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: why is it complicated?
15:38:04 <spevack> You ask the FUDCon Chile folks -- starting with Sebastian -- to get on the fudcon-planning list, and you send your emails there.  Not that hard :)
15:38:20 <RodrigoPadula> :-)  is very hard to find people on IRC to talk
15:38:33 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: then do it on email :)
15:38:33 <RodrigoPadula> so, many conversations is on our lists or by Gtalk
15:38:51 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: which lists?
15:38:58 <RodrigoPadula> brasil and latam
15:39:08 * mchua looks up - I've got stub pages now
15:39:11 * mchua reading
15:39:20 <RodrigoPadula> but ok, I will do it here
15:39:33 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: FUDCon things should move to fudcon-planning.  talking in portugese or spanish is ok on there
15:39:52 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: I agree with spevack's suggestion that all FUDCon LATAM conversations get logged here, and sent to list. In fact, that's something we may want to make a requirement in the FUDCon planning process itself.
15:39:56 <mchua> Thanks for pointing that out.
15:39:58 <mchua> I'll make that edit in a moment.
15:40:04 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, We started to create the wiki page yesterday, so all information will be added this week
15:40:22 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Oh - major wiki edits are also good things to announce to the fudcon-planning list, too.
15:40:32 * mchua adds that to "list of edits to make to the fudcon planning process"
15:40:52 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: You've started doing that already, with your first announcement of the page the other day.
15:41:01 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: is there anything else I can do for you today?
15:41:05 <mchua> Which is great - so keep it up. :)
15:41:17 <mchua> spevack: I've got something for you and RodrigoPadula to work on, actually
15:41:25 <mchua> Sooo, I started stubs for the first part of the planning process.
15:41:27 <mchua> Which is the bid process.
15:41:29 * mchua pulls up links
15:41:39 <RodrigoPadula> I think it's important to know the $$ of budget that we will have to work
15:41:42 <RodrigoPadula> for FISL and FUDCon
15:41:50 * mchua is getting to that
15:42:03 <mchua> So, what I did - I went to the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010 page
15:42:13 <mchua> and made a planning page - it's linked to from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010#Planning_team
15:42:21 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning
15:42:45 <mchua> is the planning page. If you go there, you'll see that it links to the [[FUDCon organization process]] page
15:43:17 <mchua> and basically is starting to be organized in a parallel structure, except with the sections being specific to this FUDCon instead of "here's how you do a FUDCon generally."
15:43:26 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: well, FISL is a normal Fedora event.
15:43:34 <spevack> It's a big one, but it's just a normal event.
15:43:40 <spevack> Similar to FOSDEM.
15:43:55 <mchua> Right, which is why I've just made this stuff for the FUDCon planning.
15:43:59 * mchua keeps on going
15:44:02 <spevack> Our budget for FOSDEM is probably about $3,000 USD including swag, travel, booth, etc.
15:44:13 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, Ok
15:44:30 <mchua> spevack: iow, "FISL is out of the scope of this conversation"?
15:44:36 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, that's Ok for FISL
15:44:43 <mchua> So, for FUDCon...
15:44:59 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning has a section for bid process, which is the first part of "how to plan a FUDCon."
15:45:08 <mchua> And I made a subpage for sanity.
15:45:11 <spevack> If you want an initial estimate for FUDCon Santiago, I'd start with $10,000 USD and I'd ask to see your proposal with that amount.  Depending on what you and the fudcon team come back with, we'll see if we need to raise it.
15:45:12 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process
15:45:27 <mchua> spevack: I was about to ask you for that, actually :)
15:45:42 <mchua> If you look at the link I just posted, it links to the [[FUDCon bid process]] page
15:45:49 <mchua> and, again, basically just tries to follow it.
15:46:15 <mchua> The first part of the bid process is an RFP - and I believe that's spevack, but I'm not sure where our RFP for this FUDCon is.
15:46:25 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: if you say "we will spend $2,000 USD on a Fedora ski day", I will say "that is a bad idea"  :D
15:46:49 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, no, it will be extra
15:46:57 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: i'm just joking
15:47:03 <RodrigoPadula> :-)
15:47:06 <spevack> i know you won't spend our budget on skiing :)
15:47:09 <mchua> spevack: "CommArch shall make known via the FUDcon-planning mailing list the estimated available budget for a FUDcon, and the preferred date(s) for a region. This announcement shall occur at least 12 months prior to the preferred dates announced."
15:47:14 <mchua> is what we have for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process#Initial_RFP
15:47:31 <mchua> ...now, for this FUDCon, we may have to make an exemption for some of the deadlines outlined in our planning.
15:47:39 <RodrigoPadula> It's free software, not free beer or free skiing :-)
15:47:41 <spevack> mchua: yeah, i think we will
15:47:43 <mchua> That's ok, but we should keep track of those diffs so that they're clear.
15:48:09 <ke4qqq> or maybe the process needs to be tweaked - ie instead of dates - date range, quarter, etc.
15:48:16 <mchua> ke4qqq: good point.
15:48:28 <RodrigoPadula> Ok, with a number is better to organize the ideas and study all possibilities
15:48:32 <mchua> spevack, RodrigoPadula: you may notice there are two sections to this page
15:48:42 <mchua> and one needs to be done by spevack and one needs to be done by RodrigoPadula
15:48:42 <RodrigoPadula> the idea of that fudcon is to increase the RPMDEV group
15:48:50 <mchua> (according to the process that we have)
15:49:00 <RodrigoPadula> so, we will initially support the people that are working there
15:49:06 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: your section is the "Proposal Process" section.
15:49:28 <spevack> mchua: ok, i'll fill out my section
15:49:44 <RodrigoPadula> and I'm thinking to help one contributor from each country
15:49:47 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: I linked to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process#Proposal_Process in your section on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process
15:50:11 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: and copy-pasted the template for one city - so if you can fill that in for Santiago, that would be great.
15:50:15 <RodrigoPadula> it's very important to share experiences
15:50:34 <mchua> If we have bids/data from cities other than Santiago, those should go there too, but it sounds like there may just be one major bid (Santiago) right now.
15:50:37 <mchua> And that's ok.
15:51:33 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Yep - very important to share experiences. Which is why I (and spevack, I think) are saying things like "we should talk on the fudcon-planning list" or "we should have all conversations in this channel, and log them"
15:51:45 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: because we also need to share experiences among planners of FUDCons.
15:52:09 <RodrigoPadula> sure
15:52:37 <RodrigoPadula> last year the FUDCon was organized in a hurry
15:52:49 <RodrigoPadula> and we didnt publicated a lot of info
15:53:10 <RodrigoPadula> this FAD is helping a lot to organize the process
15:53:15 * mchua nods
15:53:19 <mchua> Well, that's what we hoped :)
15:53:28 <mchua> I mean, I remember having a hard time with FUDCon Toronto
15:53:42 <mchua> and that was with Paul and Chris doing the vast majority of the work, and me mostly following along.
15:53:43 <RodrigoPadula> startgin by the infor organization and decisions
15:53:57 <mchua> Yep.
15:54:19 <RodrigoPadula> last year I've organized the Latam FUDcon alone!
15:54:28 <mchua> Well, the hope of this FAD (at least for me) is that we come out with a process - that's really well documented - that can guide just about any Fedora contributor through making a good FUDCon happen.
15:54:35 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: yikes. I... can't even imagine what that's like.
15:54:48 * mchua was pretty dead after organizing 1/3rd of FUDCon Toronto
15:55:06 <mchua> (well, by "pretty dead" I mean "I went home and slept for 9 hours, which is a lot for me")
15:55:11 <mchua> (but in my book, that's "Mel is very tired")
15:55:13 <RodrigoPadula> Me, myself and  Ireneless :-)
15:55:22 * mchua needs to see that movie
15:55:29 <RodrigoPadula> :-)
15:56:13 <RodrigoPadula> and I was responsible by the Red Hat participation too
15:56:26 <mchua> Ok - I'm going to pop out of this conversation for a few minutes to put the edits we came up with (the notes that we should be using the fudcon-planning list, and this IRC channel, and such) into the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process page that Chris and I are working on, I'll be back in a few minutes.
15:56:28 <RodrigoPadula> booth for Fedora... booth for red hat... stuffs for Red hat and for fedora
15:56:41 <mchua> RodrigoPadula, spevack: I'll ping you when I'm back, ping me if you finish your sections first
15:56:57 <RodrigoPadula> Ok
15:57:06 <RodrigoPadula> I will read and work on it now
15:57:16 <RodrigoPadula> So, where I have to start ?
15:57:49 <RodrigoPadula> readind... and later writing
15:58:35 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Yep - your section is on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process
15:58:43 <mchua> the "proposal process" section
15:58:46 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: it is also important to realize the FUDcon and FISL are two separate things
15:58:49 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: i think it would be good for you to read over the planning pages created this weekend and ask any questions you come up with
15:58:52 <spevack> maybe some people will attend both
15:59:05 <spevack> and maybe we will have a section of the FUDCon page that says "tips for people who are also going to FISL"
15:59:10 <RodrigoPadula> spevack, sure, I have it in mind
15:59:12 <spevack> but we MUST organize the events separately
15:59:17 <spevack> RodrigoPadula: good, i'm glad we agree
15:59:42 <mchua> dgilmore: Yeah, I think that at the end of this meeting we should all step back and look at all the process pages, and which ones we've worked through, and hear what RodrigoPadula's plan is for working through the rest (and giving feedback on the fudcon-planning list)
16:00:00 <RodrigoPadula> and I will work to request local budget for FISL and FUDCon and we can try to save your budget
16:00:05 <mchua> but right now, RodrigoPadula's looking at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process#Proposal_Process for filling out https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process.
16:00:12 * mchua really goes to work on that page with Chris now
16:01:42 <RodrigoPadula> before the brazilian carnaval!
16:02:16 <RodrigoPadula> Brazilians starts to work hard only after it :-)
16:02:33 <RodrigoPadula> Feb 12-17
16:05:30 <mchua> hey, yn1v  - I'll try to find you the backlog so you can catch up.
16:05:56 <mchua> yn1v: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fudcon-planning/2010-01-31/fudcon-planning.2010-01-31-14.12.log.txt is the long, long log.
16:06:04 <mchua> yn1v: but the shorter version...
16:06:23 <mchua> is that we're testing out the FUDCon planning process we've designed at the Events FAD (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010)
16:06:29 <mchua> with Rodrigo, for FUDCon LATAM.
16:06:51 <mchua> (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010)
16:07:21 <mchua> yn1v: so we're making https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning a place to work through https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
16:07:43 <mchua> yn1v: and the first part of that is working through the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process
16:07:46 <yn1v> lots of things to read :)
16:07:53 <mchua> yn1v: and that last page is what spevack and RodrigoPadula are working on right now.
16:08:10 <mchua> yn1v: yeah :) but the most important right now to catch up on what's going on are the last two links.
16:08:13 <mchua> The rest are mostly for context.
16:16:34 <yn1v> mchua, what is CommArch ?
16:17:57 <RodrigoPadula> yn1v, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommArch
16:17:58 <mchua> spevack: ^^ :)
16:18:22 <yn1v> thanks
16:32:51 <mchua> yn1v: in other words, CommArch == "so, Mel, Max, Karsten, Greg... what do you do at Red Hat, exactly?"
16:33:53 <yn1v> mchua, thanks. Now I know
16:35:26 <mchua> spevack, RodrigoPadula: how's it going?
16:36:32 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, I'm reading all documents first :-)
16:37:11 <RodrigoPadula> and thinking before write, first I have to think in portuguese :-)
16:37:42 <mchua> yessir. :)
16:40:00 * mchua committed our patch - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process#Communications
16:49:22 * RodrigoPadula thinks that we need to update the channel subject
16:59:22 <mchua> Hm. Who's an op?
16:59:34 <RodrigoPadula> asalles, estas??
16:59:42 <asalles> aca
16:59:45 <asalles> holas
16:59:54 <RodrigoPadula> estavamos hablando acerca de la fecha
17:00:10 <asalles> ok. post fisl?
17:00:27 <mchua> stickster: o mighty channel op, can haz change topic?
17:00:53 * mchua waves to asalles - thanks for joining us!
17:00:53 <RodrigoPadula> y yo estava hablando que seria mejor algo como 1 semana antes
17:00:56 <RodrigoPadula> o una semana despues
17:01:11 <dgilmore> hola asalles
17:01:16 <asalles> hola hola
17:01:21 <RodrigoPadula> 15-17 o 28-30
17:01:27 <asalles> primera semana de agosto?
17:01:29 <RodrigoPadula> pues son vacaciones aca
17:01:33 <RodrigoPadula> July
17:01:57 <RodrigoPadula> de manera que personas puedan viajar para FISL y en sequencia para Santiago o o contrario
17:02:22 <asalles> ojo que en esa fecha la ucentral va a estar cerrada por vacaciones
17:02:28 <asalles> el 15 salen de vacaciones
17:02:28 <RodrigoPadula> creo que domingo y lunes no sean buenos dias como recomendado por Max
17:02:52 <RodrigoPadula> queadar completamente cerrada ?
17:03:01 <asalles> no, no completamente
17:03:02 <RodrigoPadula> los chicos me dicieran q seria la mejor fecha
17:03:12 <RodrigoPadula> pues la infra quedaria libre
17:03:21 <asalles> 15 a 17 sería bueno, podría arreglar el tema en la universidad
17:03:33 <asalles> pero 28-30 dudo que sea bueno
17:03:46 <RodrigoPadula> puede hablar con ellos entonces para saber la mejor fechar ?
17:03:56 <RodrigoPadula> * fecha
17:05:11 <dgilmore> asalles: What dates work best for the university?
17:06:27 <asalles> ok, yo veo eso
17:06:29 <RodrigoPadula> vea se es mejor mantener Julio o cambiamos a otro mes entonces
17:06:37 <asalles> no habría problema a primera vista
17:06:44 <RodrigoPadula> vea exatamente que mes seria el mejor
17:06:49 <asalles> la mejor fecha sería julio 15-7 o sino en agosto
17:06:55 <RodrigoPadula> tanto para los embajadores locales, para usted y para la universidad
17:06:58 <dgilmore> asalles: will 16-18 work or 17-19?
17:07:37 <asalles> 16-17-18 i think is the best but i need to talk to university
17:08:05 <RodrigoPadula> Domingo ?
17:08:16 <asalles> sip
17:08:20 <RodrigoPadula> creo que no es un buen dia para eventos
17:08:23 <asalles> por eso, tengo que preguntar mañana en la universidad
17:08:23 <dgilmore> asalles: :) awesome, please do and let usknow on fudcon-planing@lists.fedoraproject.org
17:08:32 <RodrigoPadula> siempre tuve problemas con esta fechar
17:08:46 <RodrigoPadula> el publico y la participacion es siempre muy pequeña en los domingos
17:08:58 <asalles> partir un jueves es complicado
17:09:32 <asalles> porque no habría mucho quorum
17:09:45 <RodrigoPadula> teneremos un publico especifico
17:09:51 <asalles> que horario es?
17:09:53 <RodrigoPadula> y la idea de la FUDCOn es mas los embajadores
17:09:57 <RodrigoPadula> todo el dia
17:10:04 <asalles> ok, entiendo
17:10:16 <RodrigoPadula> la participacion externa es bienvenida
17:10:28 <RodrigoPadula> pero el foco es fedora y los muchachos que ya trabajam alla
17:10:36 <asalles> si, entiendo
17:10:37 <asalles> mira, mañana voy a preguntar en la universidad la disponibilidad de infraestructura para ésas fechas y horarios
17:10:47 <RodrigoPadula> Ok
17:10:56 <RodrigoPadula> y vea la possibilidad de otras fechas
17:11:05 <asalles> es posible que esté reservado para algun otro evento, asi que tengo que realizar lobby
17:11:05 <RodrigoPadula> em otros meses y que pensa la universidad acerca
17:11:15 <RodrigoPadula> ;-)
17:11:19 <asalles> ;)
17:11:42 <RodrigoPadula> seria muy important organizarmos una reunion con todos los embajadores activos de chile
17:11:47 <RodrigoPadula> esta semana
17:12:07 <asalles> es cosa de mandar un correo con tiempo
17:12:12 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: The idea of a fudcon is to bring Users and developers together
17:12:13 <asalles> porque acá en chile estamos en vacaciones
17:12:20 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: its not just about ambasadors
17:12:22 <asalles> muchos están sin pc, desconectados del mundo
17:12:30 <RodrigoPadula> dgilmore, sure
17:12:37 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: we want the general community to come and learn about fedora
17:12:41 <RodrigoPadula> but the focus is to produce something
17:12:55 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: there is no single focus
17:13:00 <RodrigoPadula> I think... that FUDCon need a more teach focus
17:13:06 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: A FAD is single focus
17:13:14 <dgilmore> a FUDCon has multiple
17:13:15 <RodrigoPadula> because is that we need to improve in our local community
17:13:45 <dgilmore> Teaching is a big part of it.
17:13:53 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:14:04 <RodrigoPadula> teaching tech issues :-)
17:14:12 <dgilmore> But that teaching should cover from new users to new contributors to seasoned users and contributors
17:14:31 <RodrigoPadula> do you remember de last fudcon latam ?
17:14:32 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: Teaching everything not just advanced technical issues
17:14:36 <dgilmore> Yes
17:14:55 <RodrigoPadula> was good, with focus in many areas, but we produced nothing
17:15:02 <RodrigoPadula> because the focus was general
17:15:15 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: im saying we need to cover the higher technical things we have talked about but we need to not forget the new users who have never used fedora
17:15:31 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:15:36 <RodrigoPadula> we will cover many areas
17:15:49 <RodrigoPadula> but the focus will be on a specific area RPM/DEV
17:16:16 <RodrigoPadula> this kind of knowledge that we need now to improve our community to the next step
17:16:38 <RodrigoPadula> we had designers, translators, writers, marketing people
17:17:00 <RodrigoPadula> but we dont have a great number of people packaging and developing for fedora from here
17:17:03 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: I dont think it is helpful to set a single focus for a FUDCon
17:17:20 <RodrigoPadula> no, it will not be a single focus
17:17:40 <RodrigoPadula> will cover many areas
17:17:50 <RodrigoPadula> we will have lectures about fedora in general
17:17:57 <RodrigoPadula> install fests
17:18:15 <RodrigoPadula> spins/remix
17:18:25 <RodrigoPadula> how to use and configure fedora
17:18:28 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: announcing that we will focus on RPM/DEV means that people intersted in other ares wont turn up
17:19:02 <RodrigoPadula> but need need to work more in RPM/DEV
17:20:02 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: yes.
17:20:11 <RodrigoPadula> we will cover many areas
17:20:15 <RodrigoPadula> but by example
17:20:16 <dgilmore> but doing so by turning away others is not helpful
17:20:41 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:20:54 <RodrigoPadula> the idea is to cover many areas with local support
17:21:28 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: I think we need to make sure there is a user track and a developer track
17:21:34 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: that worked well at toronto
17:21:35 <RodrigoPadula> but by example, we cant spend a lot of money to invite people to talk abou fedorat instalation, configuration
17:21:58 <RodrigoPadula> When I told keep a focus, I'm thinking on the budget applyed
17:22:24 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: We need to Invite local people to help us
17:22:53 <RodrigoPadula> I think will be better by example, to keep the focus on support developers/packagers than designers/translators
17:23:08 <RodrigoPadula> because this kind of knowledge we have in all countries
17:23:21 <RodrigoPadula> but the RPM/DEV, only in some countries we have members
17:23:48 <RodrigoPadula> so, if we will pay to bring people, we need to pay for people that will add more knoledge to the local community
17:24:14 <RodrigoPadula> did you got it ? that's my view of focus.
17:24:56 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: We need to pay for people to come based on the sponsorship process
17:25:18 <RodrigoPadula> yes
17:25:20 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:25:33 <RodrigoPadula> but we need to define a priority
17:25:57 <RodrigoPadula> and that argument is defined by the sponsorship process
17:27:35 <ke4qqq> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sponsoring_event_attendees
17:28:38 <RodrigoPadula> I think we need to use the budget to improve the local communities
17:28:55 <RodrigoPadula> and in latam, what we need to improve is the RPM/DEV
17:29:02 <RodrigoPadula> group
17:29:11 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: You need to be clear in how you plan to spend it
17:29:17 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:29:44 <RodrigoPadula> all info will be added to the week and all decisions we will beased in all rules and CommArch support
17:29:47 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: Im saying you need to be open to all proposals for people requesting sponsorship
17:30:26 <dgilmore> i feel that dictating a single focus could turn away proposals that will help in awesome unforseen ways
17:31:11 <dgilmore> I totally agree that working on things like packaging and more technical issues can do with some help
17:31:52 <RodrigoPadula> the non-tech issues will be covered by the local group
17:31:59 <dgilmore> asalles: what do you think?
17:32:58 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: but we want them to sign up on the wiki and pre-register.   If we state that we are focusing onone area they are more likely to say im not going to come
17:34:10 <asalles> volvi
17:34:35 <asalles> me parece que el enfoque del Fudcon tendría que ser técnico
17:34:54 <RodrigoPadula> asalles, sure
17:34:55 <asalles> no enfocado a traductores o diseñadores
17:35:15 <asalles> porque ya existen otros eventos en relacion a traductores y diseñadores
17:35:22 <RodrigoPadula> fue lo que dice a dgilmore
17:35:24 <asalles> dudo que sea el foco principal de Fudcon
17:35:37 <asalles> sure
17:35:44 <dgilmore> then we have a fad not a fudcon
17:36:00 <RodrigoPadula> :-)
17:36:14 <RodrigoPadula> will be a fuDcon
17:36:22 <RodrigoPadula> focus on D
17:36:34 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: if you cut out things and focus only on one thing its a FAD
17:36:44 <RodrigoPadula> no no
17:36:57 <RodrigoPadula> we will talk and work in all areas
17:37:13 <RodrigoPadula> all proposals will be added on the wiki
17:37:39 <RodrigoPadula> but what I'm talking about is that we need to keep the focus/budget in what we dont have here
17:38:32 <RodrigoPadula> we will invite users and students from all the local universities to joing us
17:38:56 <RodrigoPadula> and we will organize a lot of activities for people that use fedora, that dont use linus
17:38:59 <RodrigoPadula> linux
17:39:15 <RodrigoPadula> and people that dont know what a h... is fedora
17:39:36 <RodrigoPadula> but it will be organized by the local group from Santiago
17:39:48 <asalles> +1
17:39:49 <RodrigoPadula> based on the knowlegde of the local skills
17:39:57 <stickster> RodrigoPadula: You will want to be working directly with tatica, Neville, and some other LATAM Fedora contributors who are directly involved in other areas of Fedora too
17:40:00 <RodrigoPadula> and the public the will be there
17:40:01 <dgilmore> there needs to be a USER and developer track
17:40:24 <stickster> A FUDCon can have a dedicated track, and also include sessions for other people as well.
17:40:30 <stickster> For example, the Berlin FUDCon
17:40:34 <RodrigoPadula> * that
17:40:40 <stickster> had an infrastructure track as one set of sessions
17:40:47 <stickster> and also had sessions on a wide variety of other topics too
17:41:32 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:41:46 <RodrigoPadula> but we dont have money to sponsor all people that are working in Latam
17:41:57 <RodrigoPadula> and in latam is very large and expensive
17:42:13 <RodrigoPadula> so, if we will have sessions that local people can do
17:42:25 <RodrigoPadula> why we will pay one people from other country to come to do ?
17:42:30 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: we can ask people to provide session proposals for RPM/DEV we need to evaluate all proposals based on the merit of the benfefit that fedora gets by  having the session
17:42:39 <RodrigoPadula> with the budget that we have by example
17:42:59 <RodrigoPadula> we will have money to sponsor one people from 4 or 6 countries
17:43:27 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: you not listening. we should use local resources for everything that we can.
17:43:37 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:44:09 <RodrigoPadula> the question is.. all people will be added their names on the wiki requestin support
17:44:16 <RodrigoPadula> peoplet that are only fedora users
17:44:20 <dgilmore> and we should bring people in who have great things to add
17:44:29 <RodrigoPadula> or people that are fedora ambassadors but isn't so actie
17:44:39 <RodrigoPadula> if we dont choose a focus to bring people
17:44:52 <RodrigoPadula> the FUDCon will not be productive, like the last one
17:45:02 <RodrigoPadula> dgilmore, that's the point
17:45:28 <RodrigoPadula> the great things to add now to our local team are tech things
17:45:32 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: it has nothing to do with if the person is an ambasador or not
17:46:08 <RodrigoPadula> man, you dont know latam people :-)
17:46:22 <dgilmore> in fact we likely want mostly people who are not ambasdors
17:46:27 <RodrigoPadula> many people will join us on the wiki only because: Ohhh Chile is COOL!
17:46:50 <dgilmore> since there is a huge disconnect between ambasadors and the technical people who are in LATAM
17:47:03 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: and we dont pay for them
17:47:22 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: we are not obliged to pay for everyone who asks for money
17:47:29 <RodrigoPadula> Yes
17:47:37 <RodrigoPadula> sure
17:47:42 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: people we pay for we will expect deliverables from
17:48:28 <dgilmore> which will be covered in there proposal
17:48:37 <RodrigoPadula> I think the problem here is my english, I'm very direct to the point and dont have works to explain myself clearly
17:49:08 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: you asking people who you think will give great talks/help in a great way with RPM/DEV to submit a proposal it a good things to do
17:49:35 <RodrigoPadula> We will accept all proposals
17:49:44 <dgilmore> lets move on
17:49:45 <RodrigoPadula> will read and study all possibilities
17:49:58 <RodrigoPadula> but we have to think in the legacy
17:50:02 <RodrigoPadula> to the local community
17:50:06 <RodrigoPadula> to the university
17:50:15 <RodrigoPadula> and to Fedora as a Linux Distribution
17:50:27 <RodrigoPadula> that's the Latam POV
17:51:16 <RodrigoPadula> the focus on RPM/DEV isn't a decision mine
17:51:29 <RodrigoPadula> it's a request from the local group that are interested to help fedora
17:52:02 <RodrigoPadula> to add something more than translations and free media distribution
17:52:40 <RodrigoPadula> did you got it ?
17:53:32 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: great that local group can provide Ideas/talks/sessions and people to help with them
17:53:43 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: I think we have been derailed here
17:53:58 <dgilmore> Lets move on to the next steps and review this later
17:54:19 <RodrigoPadula> :-)
17:54:42 <dgilmore> asalles: when do you think you can confirm dates with the university?
17:55:10 <RodrigoPadula> asalles,will talk with the university tomorrow
17:56:22 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: yes but they likely wont give us an answer then
17:57:22 <RodrigoPadula> I think tomorrow he will send to us a reply about this issue
18:00:57 <RodrigoPadula> I will schedule a meeting with the ambassadors from Chile for the next week ASAP
18:03:50 <RodrigoPadula> #action asalles talk with Universidad Central to define the FUDCon date
18:06:51 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: do you have questions about the bid process?
18:16:39 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Yep, the information about the other locations should go on the bid process page as well.
18:16:43 <mchua> In the bid process format.
18:17:04 <mchua> So it's great that the Ambassadors put some information on the wiki already, it makes that a lot easier. :)
18:21:51 <RodrigoPadula> so, I have to add city one and city 2
18:22:37 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: I think the people proposing the cities should
18:24:11 <ke4qqq> the hope is that you don't have to do anything regarding proposing cities, RodrigoPadula, unless you are proposing a city yourself.
18:24:47 <RodrigoPadula> ok, because the people from argentina didn't provided us some information
18:25:30 <RodrigoPadula> will be strange to resquest information from argentina now
18:25:33 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: please ask them for some
18:25:40 <RodrigoPadula> because Chile will held the event
18:26:03 <ke4qqq> RodrigoPadula: point the Argentinians to the bid process page, if they fail to provide a bid, they can't be considered - but it makes the process transparent.
18:27:20 <RodrigoPadula> I think will not be important now to add information about Argentina
18:30:56 <RodrigoPadula> probably here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations will be the best place to add information abou argentina
18:31:56 <spevack> And you can remind the folks in Argentina, or anywhere, that getting a bid together is a one-time effort, and then it can be used for any future FUDCon or FAD.
18:34:03 <RodrigoPadula> humrum
19:12:39 * mchua curious - how was it decided that it was going to be in Chile?
19:20:37 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, I sent emails to the commArch list about it
19:21:01 <RodrigoPadula> based on the info added in our wiki by the ambassadors from Chile
19:21:19 <RodrigoPadula> and the support that Universidad Central will give to us to realize the event
19:25:56 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Makes sense - thanks. Just wondering if we should document that somewhere in the process page so that people don't ask "wait, why doesn't this follow the process?" when they look at it later on. (Particularly the locations that did not get chosen this time.)
19:26:15 <RodrigoPadula> sure
19:26:35 <RodrigoPadula> I had a meeting with the local ambassadors about it
19:27:13 <RodrigoPadula> and all logs was added in the blog post
19:27:22 <RodrigoPadula> #link  http://www.projetofedora.org/fudcon_latam_2010_chile
19:27:59 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, I think we need to spread this link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations
19:28:19 <RodrigoPadula> it will be very important to the nexts FUDCons/FADs
19:33:20 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: I just asked the folks that were working on the bid process page, and they think that the [[FUDCon and FAD locations]] page should be deprecated.
19:33:28 <mchua> jds2001: can you chime in on this a bit?
19:34:12 <jds2001> I think that that page is deprecated now.
19:34:25 <RodrigoPadula> would be interesting to create a new page
19:34:29 <jds2001> because we want a more formal bid process and there needs to be some format around it
19:34:39 <RodrigoPadula> based on the documentation generated on this FAD
19:34:47 <jds2001> and that page looks to be simply added to, and never removed from :)
19:34:52 <RodrigoPadula> it can save a lot of time in the future :-)
19:35:23 <jds2001> i think there's some valuable ideas there
19:35:24 <dgilmore> jds2001: so it should be an archive page
19:35:31 <jds2001> dgilmore: yep
19:36:15 <jds2001> like how do I know that some is still actively looking to hold a FUDCon in Athens and has the wherewithal to do that now?
19:36:51 <mchua> RodrigoPadula, jds2001: I'm thinking that it might make more sense for each event to have its own bid process page. That's what we have for FUDCon LATAM right now
19:36:54 * mchua finds link
19:37:01 <jds2001> right.
19:37:55 <jds2001> and there's *no* detail in the LATAM section of that page
19:38:04 <jds2001> other than "hey, it would be cool in Santiago"
19:38:30 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: jds2001: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process
19:39:06 <RodrigoPadula> jds2001, that page isnt used
19:39:28 <mchua> But it's what's supposed to happen, according to our 'how to plan a FUDCon' doc.
19:39:29 <RodrigoPadula> I'm just thinking that woulkd be interesting to use it
19:39:51 <mchua> I think it's more interesting/useful to have the bid process page for FUDCon LATAM 2010 just be for FUDCon LATAM 2010.
19:40:01 <mchua> That way, locations know what event they're bidding for.
19:40:22 <mchua> And later on, for future events, it's pretty trivial for them to copy-paste their bid for this event into the bid for the other event (while changing a few dates, etc. they'll have to change anyway).
19:40:25 <jds2001> and some of the content could be reused by future bids for that location that didnt succeed.
19:40:35 <mchua> ...what jds2001 just said.
19:40:41 <RodrigoPadula> I think could be better to have one general page
19:41:22 <jds2001> why?
19:41:26 <RodrigoPadula> so, if we want to organize one eventi in Central America, or Asia que dont need to create a bid or competition page where the best will win
19:41:43 <jds2001> why wouldnt you?
19:41:55 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: If you think it would be better to have one general place to put location bids, the place to suggest that patch is in the overall FUDCon planning process.
19:42:23 <mchua> Because the process that we have for FUDCon planning says that bids should be done by event.
19:42:27 <jds2001> the whole point of the process is so that the best location wins. Criteria for Asia are going to be very different than those for LATAM I'd guess.
19:42:52 <mchua> And the process exists so that we have a way to help you with your FUDCon planning - the closer you're sticking to the process we have, the more we'll be able to help you.
19:43:24 <RodrigoPadula> yes, but the COmmArch, famsco and fedora marketing can have a general overview of all countries where we have ambassadors
19:43:34 <RodrigoPadula> and members interested to held one event
19:43:54 <RodrigoPadula> it can be usefull for marketing strategies
19:44:49 <jds2001> I fail to see how where the bid process is stored has anything to do with marketing.
19:45:20 <jds2001> I think there *does* need to be a bid process, just to make that clear.
19:45:42 <RodrigoPadula> sure
19:45:44 <jds2001> because there's many people that are interested in holding events.
19:45:47 <RodrigoPadula> we need a bid process
19:46:19 <RodrigoPadula> but I think would be interesting to have a wiki page with a lot of cities/countries interested to held events
19:46:25 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: We do need a bid process.
19:46:30 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Right now, the way we do bid processes is by event.
19:46:48 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Perhaps that's the best way to do it, perhaps not - but in either case, right now, we do bid processes by event.
19:46:55 <jds2001> mchua: what about putting them in a category
19:47:14 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Think about it this way - if you were making a package, and thought the packaging guidelines could be improved, what would you do?
19:47:23 <RodrigoPadula> I'm not talking that we dont need, am I ?
19:47:49 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: You would make your package according to the packaging guidelines as currently written, and *then,* separately, go to FESCo and say "hey, I think these packaging guidelines could be changed."
19:47:50 <jds2001> RodrigoPadula: perhaps I was just confused.
19:48:05 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: I think we all agree that a bid process is needed.
19:48:07 <jds2001> well, FPC, but whatever :D
19:48:12 <RodrigoPadula> mchua, +1
19:48:14 <mchua> jds2001: ...ok, FPC, right.
19:48:29 <RodrigoPadula> now, by example
19:48:43 <RodrigoPadula> we have the spec to organize onde event FAD/FUDCon
19:48:56 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: I think that where we disagree is "should these bids be listed per-event - all the bids for one event on that event's bid page - or should these bids be all in one giant 'bids for Fedora events' page"?
19:49:13 <mchua> RodrigoPadula, jds2001: Does that seem like an accurate summary of the two positions here?
19:49:22 <jds2001> seems to.
19:49:27 <RodrigoPadula> and we have a bid repository of cities/countries interested to held one event
19:49:48 <jds2001> but the logisitcs of holdoing various events are VERY different
19:49:48 <RodrigoPadula> so, we decide that we need to improve the community in Central america
19:50:00 <jds2001> a FUDCon takes much more than a FAD, for example.
19:50:03 <RodrigoPadula> so, yum search Central America
19:50:07 <RodrigoPadula> -> Panama
19:50:11 <RodrigoPadula> -> Nicaragua
19:50:18 <RodrigoPadula> -> El Salvador
19:50:26 <RodrigoPadula> hummm... interesting this package Nicaragua
19:50:33 <RodrigoPadula> so... yum install Nicaragua
19:50:34 <RodrigoPadula> :_)
19:50:55 <RodrigoPadula> jds2001, yes, but the SPEC/process is the same for both
19:51:14 * mchua chuckles at the extension of this analogy
19:51:59 <mchua> So, I think what's happening is that jds2001 is describing reasons why the current policy (on how bid processes work) is the way it is
19:52:22 <mchua> and RodrigoPadula is describing reasons why a different bid process (all-events-in-one-page) might be more advantageous.
19:52:32 <mchua> Which is a great discussion to have, *at some point.*
19:52:50 <mchua> But right now, we're trying to get the bid process for FUDCon LATAM 2010 wrapped up.
19:53:14 <mchua> (in other words, "rpmbuild fudcon-latam-2010-bids.spec")
19:54:12 <mchua> and the current "packaging guidelines" for how FUDCon bid processes should work is that we need to have a page like https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process, and have that filled in.
19:54:12 <ctyler> I think the step after 'yum search' is 'yum info', not 'yum install'
19:54:34 <mchua> ...aaaaanyway.
19:55:25 <ctyler> Meaning, after finding out the possibilities, you get detailed info about the one you're considering, before you commit yourself to a decision.
19:55:49 <mchua> So RodrigoPadula - I know you might not entirely agree with the bid process as it stands right now, but we do have to work through that process in order to move forward with planning for your FUDCon.
19:55:56 <mchua> (I'll copypaste backlog when he gets back.)
19:56:15 <mchua> Oh! Welcome back. :)
19:56:18 <jds2001> how much of that did you get?
19:56:20 * mchua will just paste what I just said
19:56:33 <RodrigoPadula> sorry, I had a problem with my internet
19:56:46 <mchua> Hang on, pastebinning backlog for you...
19:56:59 <RodrigoPadula> thanks mel!
19:57:04 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: http://fpaste.org/RT5q/
19:57:27 * ctyler heads for airport
19:58:24 * ke4qqq gets ready to leave
19:59:22 <RodrigoPadula> I agree with the current bid process
19:59:56 <RodrigoPadula> the page that I'm talking about isn't so complete like described in the bid process
20:00:41 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process the page you're talking about?
20:00:54 <mchua> (that's the page I'm looking at.)
20:00:56 <RodrigoPadula> the idea is only to have a place where people interested in held a FUDCon or a FAD can add countries and cities with some informations
20:01:11 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Ah, that's separate from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process.
20:01:48 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Even if people put their cities on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations, they still need to put it on the individual event page to be considered.
20:02:19 <RodrigoPadula> I'm talking about this page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations
20:03:07 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Oh, ok. I think I see where the differences in our perspectives might be coming from.
20:03:32 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations is a page that isn't used *at all* in the current FUDCon bid process.
20:03:52 <RodrigoPadula> the idea of this page is "Oh, realize on FAD or one FUDCon in my city is a interesting idea"
20:04:32 <RodrigoPadula> based on this page we can start a bid process
20:04:48 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: And it's fine to put things there (though I think some people might argue that the page rapidly gets out of date and isn't maintained, but that's a different discussion as well.)
20:04:58 <RodrigoPadula> requesting more info, inviting more people and countries to held
20:05:32 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Yes. And when that bid process for a specific event happens, each location that wants to bid for that particular event needs to post (or re-post) their information on the bid page for *that particular event.*
20:05:37 <RodrigoPadula> my 0,02
20:05:41 <mchua> In this case, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Santiago_2010_planning/Bid_process.
20:05:49 <RodrigoPadula> the current bid process is very good
20:05:52 <RodrigoPadula> I agree 100%
20:06:51 <RodrigoPadula> the _locations page  can be an idea to help, or to see who is interested to held
20:06:54 <RodrigoPadula> nothing more...
20:09:04 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: Ok - I think we're on the same page, then.
20:09:08 <mchua> Just making sure we are. :)
20:11:45 * RodrigoPadula thinks that my english isn't good enough to explain ideas :-)
20:12:02 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: We need to get ready to leave to head home.  Lets pick this up again this week  after we have some more info from asalles.
20:12:13 <dgilmore> RodrigoPadula: you are doing ok  :)
20:12:54 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: I think we're off to a great start.
20:13:41 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: You've helped us find and clarify some things in the process and the resources we've made during our FAD, and that's been a big help in making our work better.
20:13:48 <mchua> And making this process easier for future FUDCon planners.
20:14:12 <RodrigoPadula> this documentation will help us a lot
20:14:18 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: And FUDCon LATAM planning is still in the very beginning stages (as it should be), but it's going through those stages The Right Way.
20:14:59 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: And I think that as long as you keep on announcing things to the fudcon-planning list, and having regular planning meetings in this channel and logging them (and sending those logs to the fudcon-planning list) we'll be able to help you with the rest of the process as things go on.
20:15:22 <mchua> RodrigoPadula: That's what we hoped, that the documentation would help :) you folks are our beta testers, more or less.
20:16:02 * mchua has to go and rap up the FAD - *really* appreciate you spending your weekend with us, RodrigoPadula. I know you're incredibly busy.
20:16:16 <mchua> er, that's "wrap up the FAD"
20:16:45 <mchua> RodrigoPadula, dgilmore: can you #endmeeting and post logs (and a 3-sentence summary, since these logs are so long) to the fudcon-planning list when you're done?
20:16:49 <mchua> #chair dgilmore RodrigoPadula
20:16:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: RodrigoPadula dgilmore mchua spevack
20:17:18 * mchua out for the day - thanks all!
20:17:49 <RodrigoPadula> I think you can finish the meeting
20:18:12 <RodrigoPadula> I'm going now too
20:18:21 <dgilmore> #endmeeting