15:47:39 <jds2001> #startmeeting
15:47:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jan 29 15:47:39 2010 UTC.  The chair is jds2001. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:47:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:47:43 <mchua> thanks jon!
15:48:11 <mchua> rossand, zxiiro, et al. thanks for waiting - sorry we're a little late, we were trying to figure out how to handle the freeseer hackingness on our side today.
15:48:14 <stickster> <-- Paul Frields, saying "Hi!" to freeseer guys
15:48:17 <jds2001> #chair rossand ctyler herlo mchua spevack stickster
15:48:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler herlo jds2001 mchua rossand spevack stickster
15:48:25 <mchua> #link http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer
15:48:33 <mchua> stickster already made a branch of his own last night
15:48:47 <stickster> For experimentation, so as not to mess with the canonical master branch
15:48:49 <mchua> #link http://fedorapeople.org/~pfrields/freeseer.git
15:48:57 * herlo is here
15:49:04 <stickster> I think it's only available via git://
15:49:16 <stickster> #link git://fedorapeople.org/~pfrields/freeseer.git
15:49:18 <herlo> zxiiro: rossand: hey! how's it going
15:49:31 <stickster> rossand: zxiiro: Thanks for all the work you guys have done so far.
15:49:39 <spevack> the freeseer guys are thinking "we've just been invaded!"  :)
15:49:47 <zxiiro> hi everyone who just joined
15:50:03 <ctyler> hi zxiiro
15:50:10 <zxiiro> i'm happy to see so many people interested in our project :)
15:50:23 <ctyler> so we want to set a gameplan for the weekend
15:50:34 <herlo> spevack: haha
15:50:49 <stickster> We have a few people here on-site who are Python conversant, and GStreamer conversant
15:50:49 <spevack> here's our initial brainstorming
15:50:52 <spevack> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#Track_.232_--_FUDCon_Live
15:50:53 * mchua <-- Mel Chua, probably most useful for developer docs here (I'm new to both gstreamer and qt, and tend to clean up stuff so that people with my hacking skill level  (i.e. not uber-high) can jump in)
15:51:25 <jds2001> < -- Jon Stanley
15:51:31 <herlo> zxiiro: wanna give a rundown of what you have completed to this point with freeseer?
15:51:33 * ctyler <-- Chris Tyler
15:51:48 * herlo <-- is getting Amp'd atm
15:52:10 <mchua> jds2001, ctyler, spevack, SMParrish, laubersm, et al: want to shout out what your mad skillz are so the freeseer folks can figure out how to make the best use of them?
15:52:23 * jds2001 knows a little python :)
15:52:23 * mchua already volunteered for developer docs
15:52:26 <herlo> lol, I have no skills :)
15:52:32 * jds2001 is a good tester too.
15:52:34 <spevack> I'm good at spending Red Hat's money
15:52:37 <stickster> herlo: Be honest, you've done some Python stuff too :-)
15:52:40 <herlo> spevack: awesome!!
15:52:50 <stickster> spevack is becoming an empty suit with a wallet!
15:52:51 <herlo> stickster: okay, okay.  I'm good at *something*
15:52:53 <stickster> KIDDING!
15:52:58 <herlo> spevack: we're going to Morton's tonight :)
15:53:01 * laubersm is proctoring an exam and lurking - er - learning what is up with event s
15:53:02 * stickster just lost his lunch privileges
15:53:11 <ke4qqq> ke4qqq: knows a little python, but prolly less than jds2001 - I can (and enjoy) breaking things.
15:53:15 <stickster> RULE 1: Know who's paying for your food.
15:53:27 <zxiiro> sure, basically the purpose of freeseer is to record presentations / events, so far we can record from a vga2usb or webcam device to a local video file but our plans is to expand to allow live streaming and record from multiple video sources
15:53:49 <mchua> stickster: note that I also have a RH credit card linked to Max's budget ;)
15:53:50 * SMParrish knows some python and can package things for Fedora
15:53:55 * ctyler Can package, knows some AV tech and python.
15:54:09 <zxiiro> the idea is to try to keep it simple so that volunteers can learn how to use it in minimal time, how we have it now litterally we hand a laptop over to someone and tell them to just sit and press the record button when a presentation begins
15:54:29 * mchua knows some python, former AV tech, neurotic developer doc writer. good at asking stupid questions.
15:54:31 <zxiiro> we've managed to record quite a few videos now if you check out fosslc.org you can see them
15:54:35 <jds2001> is there a need/want for a "advanced mode
15:54:36 <jds2001> "
15:54:40 * stickster knows some Python, some GStreamer, can package reasonably well, and has a fairly reliable tenor voice
15:54:45 <mchua> #link http://www.fosslc.org
15:54:51 <herlo> jds2001: J
15:55:00 <herlo> jds2001: ^^ joins lines
15:55:18 <ctyler> zxiiro: where do things stand with the occasional bad video?
15:55:35 <mchua> zxiiro: that meshes extremely well with what we're looking for - an entirely FOSS event-recording solution that can be shipped out to, and set up and run by, someone who may never have seen the AVkit before.
15:55:44 * laubersm is a docs person, amb, tester, and RHCA but a cli person and not-a-geek in the multimedia realm
15:55:44 <mchua> (y'all correct me if I'm wrong)
15:56:21 <mchua> Okeydokey. Should we move towards coding goals for the weekend? herlo, stickster, I think you had some comments from last night?
15:56:26 * stickster envisions that with a smidge more modularity, it would be possible for freeseer ("FS") to serve a few additional use cases as well
15:56:35 <zxiiro> ctyler: so far we've been lucky enough to get pretty good videos from  the events we've recorded, but definitely would be worth testing alot more to ensure videos are always good
15:56:38 * mchua thinking in terms of "what are the tickets we ought to be tackling for freeseer this weekend?"
15:57:05 <mchua> zxiiro: do you have a bugtracker somewhere?
15:57:12 * mchua sees nothing in http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues
15:57:23 <stickster> mchua: zxiiro: One of the tickets, in my opinion, is to modularize the GST pipeline setup so that sources/sinks can more easily be swapped during recording
15:57:49 <zxiiro> jds2001: i am considering advanced mode such as letting people pick and choose their favourite video codecs rather than forcing theora/vorbis on everyone
15:58:09 <zxiiro> and i'd imagine live streaming would require an advanced mode as well
15:58:25 <stickster> Because I can envision using the same tool beyond just hooking to an outboard videocamera -- for example, if the videosrc is your laptop's webcam, you could easily use FS to record a screencast that was intercut with one's own talking head
15:58:28 <herlo> zxiiro: we can definitely discuss those as we define scope for the weekend...
15:58:50 <zxiiro> stickster: agreed, i actually learned gstreamer in 1 day and what's currently in the git repo is the result of that, i would love to make that code better
15:58:52 * stickster doesn't want to get ahead, but mchua, are you proposing that we start laying out some use cases? zxiiro, would that be something you're interested in talking about?
15:59:00 <mchua> stickster, zxiiro: I'd consider another ticket to be "get freeseer packaged in fedora"
15:59:05 <stickster> zxiiro: You're way ahead of me, it took me literally weeks
15:59:06 <herlo> zxiiro: streaming is rather simple actually, just four basic inputs, unless you wanted to do something like stream with vlc'
15:59:08 <stickster> mchua: Good call
15:59:13 <dgilmore> where is the absolut latest code?
15:59:17 <ctyler> wizzard mode for advanced operation by someone who hadn't seen the stuff before would be good -- i.e., preset combinations of options
15:59:27 <stickster> dgilmore: See links above, or board -- github.com is the master branch
15:59:46 * stickster is, as herlo knows, a *big* fan of simplicity -- so right on, ctyler
15:59:50 * herlo was just told  "you're driving"
16:00:01 <herlo> ctyler: right on!
16:00:23 <herlo> so, it was conversed here that we actually try to define the scope for this weekend
16:00:23 <zxiiro> i think the default mode though should just be literally press 'record' and it goes, no thinking required
16:00:30 <zxiiro> and all it will do is record to a file
16:00:33 <herlo> zxiiro: who else is here with you?
16:00:34 * stickster would be happy to work on packaging at some point today, if spevack and mchua feel there will be time for him to do that
16:00:37 <zxiiro> i'd imagine that's the most common use case
16:00:57 <stickster> Or maybe jds2001 would take the packaging task
16:01:03 * stickster could review
16:01:18 <zxiiro> herlo: it's just myself and rossand he should be popping in and out throughout the day
16:01:19 * jds2001 could do that
16:01:34 <stickster> zxiiro: Don't let us overwhelm you... we're just excited by the prospects :-)
16:01:51 <zxiiro> another thing i'd like to do is have freeseer get the event list from an rss feed
16:01:51 <stickster> Plus the caffeine is kicking in
16:02:02 <stickster> That is a boss idea.
16:02:03 <zxiiro> something we discovered during events is volunteers in panic mode don't want to type
16:02:03 <ctyler> zxiiro: +1
16:02:13 <herlo> zxiiro: it's definitely a common use case.  But I'm concerned constantly about 'how do I set this'? or how does that work.  I think a wizard is valuable
16:02:24 * stickster sees ricky showed up -- he is a Python genius.
16:02:26 * mchua wonders if we're capturing these tickets anywhere so we can prioritize 'em
16:02:34 <mchua> we can't get everything done this weekend, what's the most important bit?
16:02:35 <herlo> #action rss feed as an idea to pull in event presentation values
16:02:42 <mchua> herlo: yay!
16:02:48 <mchua> #action package freeseer for fedora
16:02:48 * rossand wanders in
16:02:52 <rossand> Hey all
16:02:58 <herlo> rossand: hi
16:02:58 <mchua> zxiiro: would it be ok for us to put tickets in http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues
16:03:04 <mchua> or do you have another tracker we should use?
16:03:13 <zxiiro> mchua: yes use github
16:03:14 <rossand> mchua: please do
16:03:34 <herlo> so, let's try to get ourselves a basic 'overall' focus for freeseer and fudcon-live...
16:03:52 <rossand> We'd like to encourage people to use the mailing list for lengthy discussion. This lets us preserve the history
16:04:00 <rossand> herlo: good idea
16:04:11 <mchua> zxiiro, rossand: stickster and I are already putting things from this channel into tickets :)
16:04:17 <mchua> rossand: can haz link to mailing list?
16:04:33 <rossand> I'll fetch the link here. It's also easy to find on the web site.
16:04:35 * herlo is interested in focusing on two basic things for freeseer
16:04:36 <mchua> rossand: we're also logging this room (hi, zodbot!) and can post the log to the list periodically, with a summary, as well.
16:04:40 <mchua> rossand: thanks!
16:04:40 <jds2001> rossand: zodbot is logging this channel atm too.
16:05:02 <rossand> website http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/freeseer and mailing list: http://box674.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/freeseer_fosslc.org
16:05:06 <herlo> one, providing a set of common use cases that would be valuable for most events
16:05:12 <mchua> #link http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues
16:05:15 <rossand> all hail zod
16:05:17 <mchua> #link http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues
16:05:21 * mchua bows to ZOD
16:05:41 <herlo> and two, revamping the code to provide for a better architecture to make coding simpler and more people can help.
16:05:47 * mchua made ticket http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues#issue/1 - package freeseer for fedora
16:06:00 * rossand volunteers to take a stab at some high runner use cases on the web site. We can iterate and tweak from there.
16:06:03 <jds2001> can take that :)
16:06:19 <herlo> rossand: which website?
16:06:27 <mchua> wow, github is slow.
16:06:28 <herlo> we should define where we're putting things
16:06:33 <herlo> mchua: sometimes
16:06:40 <mchua> herlo, rossand: I just made the "use case list" thing a ticket as well
16:06:41 <rossand> For now, freeseer's homepage is here: http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/freeseer
16:06:46 <mchua> http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues/issue/2
16:06:59 <rossand> In time, I'll pay for freeseer.org.
16:07:10 <mchua> what else did we have? create a setup wizard, I think was one?
16:07:11 * stickster just joined freeseer list
16:07:12 * mchua makes that ticket
16:07:23 <herlo> rossand: how do we all get permission to edit that page?
16:07:33 <herlo> or would it be better if we did it on a section of the fedora project wiki?
16:07:34 <rossand> herlo: register at fosslc.org
16:07:43 <mchua> http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues/issue/3
16:07:46 <mchua> (setup wizard)
16:08:53 <herlo> rossand: cool
16:09:01 * herlo suggests everyone sign up there
16:09:36 * rossand will grant access as the requests come in.
16:10:44 <herlo> mchua: 09:04 < herlo> and two, revamping the code to provide for a better architecture to make coding simpler and more people can help.
16:10:59 <mchua> herlo: ticketizin'!
16:12:17 <herlo> :)
16:12:24 <zxiiro> i would love to be able to fix the gstreamer code to allow it to be modular and allow one to swap in and out different gstreamer components
16:12:30 <mchua> herlo: maybe laubersm and I can pop in towards the end of the sprintin' and spend some time asking q's and writing up developer docs for the re-architected code?
16:12:40 <mchua> zxiiro: I'll ticket that too.
16:12:49 <mchua> http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues/issue/4 is the "revamp code" tix from herlo
16:13:29 <mchua> zxiiro: http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues/issue/5 "modularize gstreamer"
16:13:59 <zxiiro> i wasn't sure how to translate the ! in gst-launch into code
16:14:37 <stickster> zxiiro: I can talk to you a bit about that
16:14:57 <stickster> zxiiro: You already understand using the element factory to make a new object
16:15:19 <mchua> http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues/issue/7 is the "rss feed" idea from earlier
16:15:32 <mchua> stickster, herlo, zxiiro: at what point do we want to start prioritizing tickets for the weekend? we have 7 now!
16:15:38 <mchua> (a whole 7 tickets, yay)
16:15:59 <stickster> mchua: I think that zxiiro will want to understand more about Gst before we can make smart decisions about that.
16:16:53 <zxiiro> stickster: yeah that'd be great
16:16:57 <stickster> zxiiro: so anyway, once you have those elements, you make a gst.Pipeline() object, and then use its "add" method to add your elements -- then do a gst.element_link_many() to link them in order
16:17:16 <herlo> mchua: I'll add stuff to that 'revamp code' ticket you wrote
16:17:17 <stickster> zxiiro: If you won't find it confusing, I have a small app that shows some working code
16:17:24 <mchua> thanks herlo.
16:17:37 <stickster> zxiiro: I'm not recommending you use that code for any other purpose than seeing one example of this working pipeline approach :-)
16:17:44 <stickster> Because I'm not a great programmer!
16:18:00 <stickster> zxiiro: git clone git://git.fedorahosted.org/git/pulsecaster.git
16:18:03 <herlo> stickster: okay...
16:18:15 <zxiiro> stickster: i have a slight understanding of the link many, is my assumption that link_many links them in the order you list them correct?
16:18:21 <stickster> right
16:18:43 <zxiiro> ok so what i was stuck on when i stopped with gstreamer last week then is the link many in the case of multiple streams
16:18:49 <zxiiro> eg. 1 audio, and 1 video
16:18:53 <herlo> mchua: I get 404, not found for that link
16:18:58 <herlo> http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues/issue/4
16:19:05 <zxiiro> in gst-launch, you use the tee
16:19:14 <zxiiro> but i wasn't sure how to use the tee in the link_many
16:19:23 <stickster> zxiiro: You'll see that in my code too -- I have an adder that's used to combine two audio sources
16:19:29 <stickster> It turns out, it's much easier than you think
16:19:33 <stickster> (at least in that direction)
16:19:38 <stickster> with a tee, I imagine it's also quite trivial
16:19:39 <zxiiro> ah ok i'd love to see that then
16:19:55 <mchua> herlo: http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues#issue/4
16:19:57 <stickster> zxiiro: I'm using the gstreamer "adder" element in my code
16:20:16 <stickster> zxiiro: Look at src/ui.py in that git repo I pointed at above
16:20:30 <stickster> look for the 'def on_record' string and you'll see where the pipeline is set up
16:20:44 <stickster> And keep in mind the pipeline can be even more modular than what I've done there
16:20:49 <stickster> My code is sort of a 0.0.1 version
16:22:12 <herlo> let's break off and start discussing this in the other *physical* room
16:22:24 * stickster now gets out of the weeds here, to give herlo some space
16:22:53 <herlo> we'll stay here and in #freeseer
16:23:12 <herlo> and in #fedora-fad
16:23:55 <zxiiro> stickster: i see so you like lsource to adder, and then later on you can link rsource into adder too
16:24:06 <zxiiro> s/like/link
16:25:19 <stickster> zxiiro: Exactly!
16:25:29 <stickster> zxiiro: You have no idea how long it took me to figure out how simple it was
16:25:30 <mchua> For folks in-channel: Clint is moving to the board and quickly mapping out a "who will be working on what freeseer stuff at what time" thing for those of us present in Raleigh
16:25:46 <stickster> zxiiro: I tried everything else in the world, getting more and more complicated, and then just did the brain-dead (and Pythonic) thing and it Just Worked(tm)
16:25:48 <mchua> so y'all know when you'll get who with what skillz for what tasks, and we know when we need to be in freeseer mode and when we need to be in other-work mode
16:27:48 <zxiiro> i'd imagine i could use tee the same way for the reverse situation than
16:28:03 * mchua is curious: of the tickets in http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/issues#list, which ones do we need to tackle first/must-get-done by end of weekend?
16:28:06 <zxiiro> adder for N-to-1 and tee for 1-to-N
16:28:59 <stickster> zxiiro: yeah, and I'll bet you can link_many for both, in opposite directions
16:29:07 <stickster> zxiiro: I'm just theorizing though, haven't tried
16:31:23 <zxiiro> ok so i've never done something like this before, how will this event work? is everyone going to commit code and i merge them at some point?
16:34:28 <stickster> zxiiro: I think that's a possibility
16:34:47 <stickster> zxiiro: I made another git repo simply to keep you from having to make that decision on your own repo
16:34:53 <zxiiro> for everyone who's testing the code, it should work with any v4l or v4l2 device, the majority of the testing i've done personally is with vga2usb with v4l driver
16:35:00 <zxiiro> stickster: that works for me
16:35:06 <stickster> zxiiro: But if you wanted to grant commit access to some other branch, it's totally your call
16:35:20 <stickster> zxiiro: I can provide write access for anyone who's writing code
16:35:30 <zxiiro> stickster: lets go with what you have setup
16:35:40 <stickster> In my repo, there's an "experimental" branch set up already
16:35:53 <stickster> The "master" branch I have is a pure clone of yours as of last night
16:36:17 <zxiiro> i'm actually github is also new to me so i'm still learning so it would be best if someone with more expertise to manage that :)
16:36:38 <stickster> I don't know if what I have is called "expertise"
16:36:40 <stickster> :-D
16:36:49 <zxiiro> haha
16:37:05 <stickster> But the nice thing is, you'll be able to pull over whatever work we do that's useful to you, if we make commits as they're supposed to
16:37:13 <stickster> zxiiro: So....
16:37:24 <zxiiro> well i'm only familiar with 4 commands at the moment, push, pull and clone, and commit
16:37:27 <zxiiro> :D
16:37:42 <stickster> zxiiro: I know a bit more than that but I'm no expert
16:37:50 <stickster> Those should get us through for ow
16:37:51 <stickster> *now
16:37:57 <zxiiro> excellent
16:38:04 <stickster> zxiiro: herlo is going to the other room to start setting up for going over use cases with you
16:38:12 <zxiiro> ok
16:38:42 <stickster> He can make suggestions and you guys can think over how they might or might not work in FS
16:39:06 * stickster will probably go a little quiet in this channel but feel free to shout if you need something
16:39:15 * rossand has taken a quick stab at some use cases. Please take a look to prime discussion: http://wiki.github.com/fosslc/freeseer/use-cases
16:39:59 <rossand> If the titles are good, and we've got the ones we need covered, we can add more detail for each use case.
16:50:19 <herlo> zxiiro: so I'm not seeing any devices when I start up freeseer with the vga2usb device connected
16:50:25 <herlo> power is on
16:50:28 <herlo> and it shows up in dmesg
16:50:54 <zxiiro> herlo: you loaded the vga2usb driver?
16:51:03 <zxiiro> oh that reminds me
16:51:09 <herlo> zxiiro: there's a vga2usb driver?
16:51:18 <herlo> for linux?
16:51:36 <zxiiro> yes it's proprietary too unfortunatly but they do compile it for your kernel if you ask
16:51:55 <zxiiro> i'm using hte latest fedora kernel version they have on the vga2usb site
16:51:59 <zxiiro> let me get you the link
16:52:20 <herlo> zxiiro: k, well we might need to look into alternatives for that too then...
16:52:26 <zxiiro> http://www.epiphan.com/downloads/linux/
16:52:33 <herlo> zxiiro: yeah, I'm there...
16:53:49 <zxiiro> you have to load the vga2usb module with a specific option too for gstreamer to work
16:54:17 <zxiiro> herlo: insmod vga2usb.ko num_frame_buffers=2
16:54:28 <herlo> zxiiro: k, so this might be something we need to discuss with the vga2usb folks, not sure how we can work *around* that as we're looking for a completely free solution
16:55:36 <rossand> herlo: AFAIK, there's no vga capture device that is completely free. IMHO, epiphan has been quite progressive to support Linux as well as they do.
16:55:49 <zxiiro> herlo:  yeah, vga2usb can be swapped out for anything the rest is just software
16:55:56 <rossand> (free as in freedom, not as in beer)
16:55:58 <herlo> rossand: yeah, and that might be something we can work with regarding epiphan
16:56:07 <herlo> rossand: right...
16:56:26 <herlo> the drivers can (and should) be free imo
16:57:57 <mchua> hey folks, is there a wiki page for freeseer notes we should dump things (like the "who's hacking when" schedule) into?
16:57:59 <rossand> I'm not sure how they feel about that. Worst thing that could happen from asking is getting a no.
16:58:17 <rossand> mchua: I turned on the wiki in github, feel free to add pages.
16:58:30 <mchua> rossand: ah gotcha, will do. thanks!
16:58:36 <rossand> Making a drupal page be a wiki felt like a square peg/round hole.
16:59:26 * rossand needs to learn a new wiki syntax apparently.
17:00:57 <mchua> #link http://wiki.github.com/fosslc/freeseer/jan-2010-freeseer-sprint-schedule
17:02:07 * zxiiro has levelup'd his git skills, can now create a local branch \o/
17:02:34 <herlo> zxiiro: awesome
17:02:40 <Workburrito> you can now also wield leather armor
17:06:09 <herlo> zxiiro: rossand: I'm getting some *interesting* results
17:06:43 <rossand> herlo: oh?
17:07:39 <herlo> yeah
17:07:56 <herlo> rossand:
17:07:56 <herlo> insmod vga2usb.ko num_frame_buffers=2
17:07:57 <herlo> insmod: error inserting 'vga2usb.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
17:08:07 <herlo> that's after building it
17:08:26 <zxiiro> you have to use the exact version of your kernel
17:08:41 <zxiiro> uname -a and download the driver corrosponding exactly to that one
17:08:45 <herlo> zxiiro: I am, except they only provide the PAE one
17:08:50 <herlo> yes, did that...
17:09:26 <zxiiro> and your kernel's not PAE?
17:09:40 <herlo> nope, but I suppose it could be
17:09:47 <herlo> I just haven't ever switched over.
17:09:54 <herlo> let me see what my options are...
17:10:15 <zxiiro> the problem is whatever part of their driver is proprietary
17:10:21 <herlo> wait, actually, it is
17:10:29 <herlo> uname -a
17:10:30 <herlo> Linux herlo-lap.egavas.org 2.6.31.12-174.2.3.fc12.i686.PAE #1 SMP Mon Jan 18 20:06:44 UTC 2010 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
17:10:38 <zxiiro> so unless you have exactly the same setup they built the driver on you'll get the error
17:10:42 <herlo> but the latest one they have online is 2.6.31.5
17:11:16 <zxiiro> yeah looks like you'll have to email them your kernel config and ask them to build a new one for you
17:11:23 <zxiiro> i've had to do this everytime my kernel updated :(
17:11:30 <herlo> how long does it take?
17:11:46 <herlo> we have *a* weekend :(
17:11:49 <zxiiro> i've done it over email and it's usually about a day
17:12:05 <herlo> hrm, that kind of affects what we're doing.  hmmm
17:12:11 <zxiiro> i haven't tried calling the support number but i'd imagine that would be faster
17:13:06 <zxiiro> in the meantime freeseer does work with a webcam as long as the webcam is v4l or v4l2
17:13:30 <herlo> sure.  But the vga2usb device component seems to be the key missing piece now...
17:14:03 <herlo> in the meantime, let's talk about use cases in #fad...
17:14:19 <zxiiro> yup so until epiphan sends you a driver, or you can get a kernel that matches exactly with one of the pre-compiled drivers you won't be able to use it
17:14:36 <zxiiro> ok
17:15:02 <herlo> zxiiro: I'll keep digging for a bit
19:04:32 <zxiiro> stickster: i'm not sure but this code seems to only record audio and doesn't do anything with the video
19:04:35 <zxiiro> self.player.add(self.vidsrc, self.vidcodec)
19:04:37 <zxiiro> self.player.add(self.sndsrc, self.audioconvert, self.sndcodec)
19:04:38 <zxiiro> self.player.add(self.mux, self.filesink)
19:07:34 <zxiiro> with gst-launch i do oggmux name=mux and then send video and audio in to mux.
19:07:44 <zxiiro> i'm not sure how that converts over to code
19:14:26 <zxiiro> just realized i pasted the wrong section of code
19:19:56 <herlo> oh
19:20:01 <herlo> zxiiro: are you okay now?
19:20:11 <zxiiro> yeah i figured it out
19:20:47 <herlo> cool
19:20:52 <zxiiro> what i'm trying to figure out now is splitting the video with tee
19:21:01 <zxiiro> it doesn't seem to like this
19:21:03 <zxiiro> gst.element_link_many(self.vidsrc, self.vidtee)
19:21:05 <zxiiro> gst.element_link_many(self.vidtee, self.vidsink)
19:21:06 <zxiiro> gst.element_link_many(self.vidtee, self.vidcodec, self.mux)
19:21:23 <zxiiro> i get this error gst.LinkError: failed to link vidtee with vidcodec
19:22:48 <stickster> zxiiro: Hm
19:23:44 <stickster> zxiiro: Have you tried this in a gst-launch to test it?
19:25:40 <zxiiro> i can do this gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src ! tee name=vid ! xvimagesink sync=false vid. ! theoraenc ! oggmux ! filesink location=test.ogg
19:26:41 * stickster fires up ipython to try some tests
19:27:38 <zxiiro> the reason i want to do tee is because i want to send a preview of what's being recorded to xvimagesink
19:29:04 <stickster> zxiiro: Yup, makes sense
19:29:08 <stickster> Sorry, just catching up to you
19:29:18 * stickster doing some manual testing in ipython to see if he can suss thi sout
19:29:22 <stickster> *this out
19:30:48 <zxiiro> oh hah i figured it out
19:30:56 <zxiiro> had to do this
19:31:06 <zxiiro> gst.element_link_many(self.vidsrc, self.vidtee)
19:31:07 <zxiiro> gst.element_link_many(self.vidtee, self.vidcodec, self.mux)
19:31:09 <zxiiro> gst.element_link_many(self.vidtee, self.vidqueue, self.vidsink)
19:31:21 <zxiiro> you need to send it to a queue before you send it to the xvimagesink
19:32:39 <stickster> Ah, that makes sense : http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/chapter-threads.html
19:33:05 <zxiiro> oh this looks very helpful thanks
19:37:34 * stickster notes that he's back in his other topic right now but will check in here in a bit
19:38:02 <stickster> zxiiro: Are you doing git commits as you go, and storing them in another branch?
19:39:02 <zxiiro> i will as soon as i have something working
19:39:17 <stickster> zxiiro: It's OK to send something out to another branch that doesn't work
19:39:27 <zxiiro> http://github.com/zxiiro/freeseer/tree/playground
19:39:39 <zxiiro> i'll post to there
19:39:59 <stickster> Awesome
19:40:00 <zxiiro> actually yeah i'll push what i have so far right now
19:41:10 <zxiiro> done
19:41:49 <stickster> Cool, I just signed up as a member under open source
19:41:53 <stickster> username 'stickster'
19:49:22 * rossand makes it back to the computer. Taking care of sick kids today.
19:50:01 <rossand> I wanted to ask what the feeling was about vga2usb vs. something else that might be supported by the kernel already. Did anyone find such an animal?
19:53:37 <herlo> rossand: yes, but we haven't gone out
19:54:25 <rossand> herlo: that's excellent. Does the EasyCAP do vga, or something else?
19:55:36 <zxiiro> any recommendations on a simple picture drawing app?
19:55:46 <zxiiro> i wanna draw something like this http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/chapter-threads.html
19:56:12 <herlo> rossand: easyCAP, got a link? or is that the one that was suggested here previously
19:56:15 <herlo> zxiiro: dia?
19:56:21 <herlo> zxiiro: ubmrello?
19:56:34 <herlo> inkscape?
19:56:38 <rossand> herlo: it was suggested earlier. Looks like svhs, rca but no vga so I was curious.
19:56:48 <zxiiro> oh yeah i forgot about dia, i'll use that
19:56:49 <herlo> rossand: I found this
19:56:56 <rossand> +1 to dia
19:57:37 <rossand> inkscape is also very good. Does svg well.
19:59:32 <zxiiro> just committed code to http://github.com/zxiiro/freeseer/tree/playground
20:00:02 <zxiiro> i've made it much easier to swap in/out the videosrc
20:00:25 <zxiiro> gonna draw a picture to get a better picture and decide what parts of the links we want to allow changing
20:00:36 <herlo> rossand: http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4276664&CatId=1430
20:00:39 <herlo> sorry, had to find it
20:01:11 <herlo> zxiiro: yeah, you have pads and bins that will likely be the same, only minor configurations within them would change
20:01:21 <herlo> like size of video output
20:01:24 <herlo> or fps
20:01:26 <herlo> etc
20:03:09 <rossand> herlo: cool. Looks like a 2 step then. feed into EasyCAP. Still about 1/3 the price of vga2usb and supported by the kernel. Nice!
20:04:29 <herlo> yeah
20:04:33 * herlo looks up easycap
20:44:41 <zxiiro> http://imagebin.ca/view/eVQCrM.html
20:45:24 <zxiiro> picture of how i linked the gstreamer components in freeseer
20:45:45 <zxiiro> currently only vidsrc is swappable (i also added ximagesrc to the code)
20:46:31 <zxiiro> it is easy to swap any part of this, we just need to decide what we would want to swap
20:46:46 <zxiiro> sndcodec and vidcodec are obvious candidates
20:47:10 <herlo> ooh, cool
20:47:33 <zxiiro> to do streaming i'd imagine we'd add a sndtee to the sndsrc stream, and branch a new vidtee to a stream server
20:47:34 <herlo> zxiiro: yeah, sink too...
20:47:54 <herlo> filesink or shout2send
20:48:32 <zxiiro> if were streaming i guess we want to tee off the video/audio source after ti's been encoded probably too
20:50:21 <herlo> yes
20:50:28 <herlo> exactly
20:50:57 <herlo> zxiiro: I'm going shopping now, will be back online later tonight.  have you made any major commits since 14:58?
20:51:55 <zxiiro> my latest commit was 24 minutes ago on the playground branch of my fork
20:52:05 <zxiiro> git@github.com:zxiiro/freeseer.git
21:01:00 <mchua> zxiiro: I think most of our freeseer sprinters are either going shopping for equipment, or thinking about working on some other Fedora Events stuff for the afternoon - do you need anything else from us tonight, should we prep anything for tomorrow morning, when should we pop back into this channel tomorrow?
21:02:38 <zxiiro> mchua: i'm fine, yeah you guys can just pop in anytime, i should be around
21:04:41 <mchua> zxiiro: Okeydokey.
21:05:11 <mchua> zxiiro: how did things go today? do you feel like things are moving forward, are we focusing on the right thing?
21:05:30 <mchua> (I know the hacking participation from most of the folks at this FAD has been somewhat scattered since we've been working on the other track as well)
21:07:50 <zxiiro> mchua: i think so, i feel like we have a pretty good road map written up on our wiki now
21:08:02 * mchua likes the diagrams
21:08:11 <mchua> they're helpful to me in understanding the code
21:08:29 <zxiiro> yes, i like to draw them while i code :)
21:08:40 * mchua will be taking a freeseer hacking shift at some point tomorrow to help out with dev docs
21:11:57 <stickster> zxiiro: If it helps, we did explicitly say just a short time ago, before spevack and herlo left, that we realize we're a little behind in this track, and we're going to get ahead in the other one now, so that we can spend more time tomorrow and Sunday on this part of the work.
21:12:14 <stickster> Especially because if the snow sets in, some of us will have an easier time working on this track together tomorrow.
21:12:25 * stickster about to go AFK
21:12:31 <zxiiro> stickster: no worries
21:12:47 <zxiiro> that link you gave me earlier on threads was a huge help
21:18:28 * mchua hops out of freeseer for the day, but will read backlog tomorrow
22:24:17 <zxiiro> i split freeseer backend code from gui code, code related to recording/gstreamer is now available in freeseer.py, code related to gui is now available in freeseer-gui-qt.py.
22:38:35 <rossand> zxiiro: good change. I'll take a peek later tonight.
23:16:16 <stickster> Thanks for being around FS guys!
23:16:24 <stickster> We will be around for this track more tomorrow.
23:16:34 <stickster> Heck, maybe a bit tonight
23:16:41 * stickster intends to pitch in a bit where he can help
23:16:47 <stickster> Going offline, bye all
02:33:40 <zxiiro> http://wiki.github.com/fosslc/freeseer/freeseer-api-example
03:07:11 <rossand> zxiiro: do you think there's any value in distinguishing between left, right, and middle video sources?
03:07:32 <rossand> I'm thinking in terms of change_videosrc()
03:07:59 <rossand> left and right would be the side by side channels assuming they sync properly (oh please do!)
03:08:12 <rossand> the middle would be cases where we want just vga or just camera
03:09:54 <rossand> A few thoughts would be to add an extra parameter defining where that source should manifest in the output. or possibly a parent class with 3 children to set the left, right, and middle respectively. We'd need a little logic to enforce sanity such as no left or right when middle is selected.
03:11:02 <rossand> Either that, or we automatically do the right thing... if the gui only asks for 1 input, we choose middle for output. If 2, left and right. If 3, we give an error on the third and ask them if they want to drop the first.
03:11:13 <rossand> Just some ideas of course...
03:12:16 <rossand> I like the gtk example. Very simple.
03:20:23 <zxiiro> rossand: depends what we want to accomplish with the video
03:20:58 <zxiiro> if we just want to allow 2 video sources like epresence just tacking on a video to the right or left would be sufficiant
03:21:49 <rossand> In terms of providing an api that we won't have to change on people who build gui's/applications around, then a method to add a video source would work. Let them push video sources onto a stack.
03:22:00 <zxiiro> i tried that code you found the other day with the merge 2 videos
03:22:00 <rossand> And we'd do the right thing with the number we've got.
03:22:10 <rossand> Did it work?
03:22:22 <zxiiro> and the defaults just puts the 2nd video source in the top left corner
03:22:49 <rossand> a picture in picture type format?
03:22:59 <zxiiro> it works but it was very slow though, i believe it's because your hd webcam records at 1600x1200 and i haven't figured out how to make ti record a smaller resolution yet
03:23:02 <rossand> Or big diamond and little diamond on a large square?
03:23:09 <rossand> :-)
03:23:10 <zxiiro> yeah picture-in-picture
03:23:17 <rossand> Cool
03:23:53 <rossand> The only down side is that you lose real estate on your screen knowing that the video viewer can't see that area.
03:24:29 <zxiiro> i found code to make it side by side though
03:24:42 <zxiiro> but to do that you have to be sure of what your recording resolutions are
03:24:46 <zxiiro> and you just offset the video by that much
03:25:19 <rossand> I see, that makes sense.
03:25:30 <rossand> Do you know if we can sense the resolution easily?
03:25:47 <rossand> Obviously figuring out how to step it down or up would be handy.
03:26:15 <zxiiro> at this point i have no idea, but i know we can at least scale the video using the videoscale
03:26:41 <zxiiro> but videoscale seems to be very cpu intensive especially if i'm scaling 1600x1200
03:26:51 <rossand> I can imagine.
03:27:00 <zxiiro> so it'd be nice if we can find a way to make the video coming in smaller
03:28:02 <zxiiro> i'm glad my gtk example works, i learned literally just enough gtk to make that example :)
03:31:14 <zxiiro> i found this example http://blog.abourget.net/2009/6/14/gstreamer-rtp-and-live-streaming
03:31:20 <zxiiro> for doing a live stream to the internet
03:31:39 <zxiiro> he mentions that it works with justin.tv, but in his examples his REMOTE_HOSTs are all local addresses
03:31:49 <zxiiro> so i'm not sure what you would use to stream to justin.tv
03:36:17 <herlo> zxiiro: how did things go
03:36:31 <herlo> zxiiro: I can provide you with a streaming server any time, just let me know
03:36:48 <zxiiro> herlo: i turned freeseer into an api
03:36:53 <herlo> zxiiro: we're going to grab some food, but I should be back in an hour
03:36:57 <herlo> zxiiro: awesome!!!
03:36:57 <zxiiro> http://wiki.github.com/fosslc/freeseer/freeseer-api-example
03:37:12 <herlo> zxiiro: I'm gonna check it out when I get back :)
03:37:28 <herlo> zxiiro: this is looking awesome!
03:37:29 <zxiiro> freeseer.py is now purely just a library, and freeseer-gui-qt.py is purely just gui
03:37:42 * herlo will update his git tree
03:37:45 <zxiiro> i also made freeseer-gui-gtk.py just for fun
03:38:12 <herlo> yeah, I saw, nice!
03:38:23 <herlo> I'm way excited to try it out tonight
03:38:28 <herlo> we got firewire cards and such
03:38:41 * herlo has got to run, but I'll be back on in about an hour or so...
03:38:45 <herlo> I'll ping you then :)
03:38:49 <zxiiro> ok o/
03:39:26 <herlo> :)
03:39:30 <herlo> ciao for now sir
03:43:05 * zxiiro goes to try freeseer on windows
03:53:20 <rossand> zxiiro: when you're ready, I can pull your update and push to master.
03:54:37 <zxiiro> rossand: i was thinking we should do that on sunday after all the code changes
03:56:59 <zxiiro> i don't understand why the windows gstreamer installer tells me i need gtk, and then leads me to the gimp installer
04:08:20 <rossand> zxiiro: ok. you're probably right... updating master at a reasonably stable point is best.
04:52:45 <rossand> I'm packing it in everyone. Thank you very much, and see you tomorrow.
05:01:03 <zxiiro> can't keep eyes open anymore, time to hit the sack. night all o/
05:19:58 <herlo> zxiiro: ping me in the morning
05:20:30 <herlo> still having issues with the devices not showing up as /dev/video0
05:20:47 * herlo tries to find the branch again and check it out
05:21:21 <stickster> herlo: You mean http://github.com/zxiiro/freeseer/tree/playground# ?
05:21:31 <herlo> stickster: yeah, was just looking for that :)
05:21:40 <stickster> yay, me gets something right :-)
05:22:58 <herlo> still see zero devices, rebooting
06:14:40 <mchua> #chair
06:14:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler herlo jds2001 mchua rossand spevack stickster
06:14:52 <mchua> #endmeeting