00:05:17 <heidie> #startmeeting
00:05:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 28 00:05:17 2014 UTC.  The chair is heidie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:05:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:05:28 <mchua> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2
00:06:10 <heidie> #topic Updates
00:06:19 <heidie> So ow are people coming with the activities?
00:06:46 * EdMirielli wondering how to get all this done...
00:06:57 <StevenCrain> On TOS, I can log in now, but still cannot edit the faculty roster, because the cat pictures do not show up.
00:07:05 <heidie> Oh!
00:07:09 <heidie> But you can get on?
00:07:15 * EdMirielli but will keep it to my self
00:07:20 <smoussavi> #agreed
00:07:25 <StevenCrain> Yes, just no edits of any pages containing external URLs.
00:07:33 <heidie> Ah, OK
00:07:36 <robry> I cannot get on to TOS yet
00:07:37 <heidie> That's good.
00:07:45 <heidie> Anyone else unable to get on TOS?
00:07:57 <smoussavi> me
00:08:11 <heidie> I attempted to create you all accounts, but I was getting an error wasn't sure that they went through.
00:08:16 <lynnlambert> I have tried off and on, but with no cats, I haven't tried for a few days.
00:08:33 <heidie> Right, need to get a different recaptcha
00:08:37 <smoussavi> I am doing the work, but not reporting
00:08:45 <heidie> Ah, OK.
00:08:53 <Barrett_Koster> I got on TOS ok, added my name to Roll Call (but didn't do all the OSSL - yikes).  What does #argeed mean (with the sharp)?
00:08:57 <heidie> Reporting should go on the foss2serve wiki
00:09:06 <heidie> That wiki you should be fine on.
00:09:53 <lorip> other than problems with the TOS site, other issues?  questions?
00:10:01 <heidie> Barrett_Koster: The meetbot will automatically take notes. The hashmark indicates a command for the meetbot
00:10:15 <swapneel> i can log in to TOS, but haven't updated the roll call yet
00:10:38 <joanna_kl> Doing the work SLOWLY! Later this week I'll be done with midterms and get to reporting.
00:10:39 <heidie> #link https://mchua.fedorapeople.org/talks/2011-rdu-posse/irc-zodbot-cheatsheet.pdf
00:11:10 <heidie> Ah, so progress.
00:11:12 <heidie> Good!
00:11:18 <BaochuanLu> Did anyone find the meaning project statuses on sourceforge?
00:11:29 <mchua> heidie: If you can link to the actual meeting notes output, Barrett_Koster might be able to see exactly what the commands do also (I'm trying to find the meeting logs list, but you may have the link closer at hand.)
00:11:33 <heidie> And so to make the progress more clear, you can use the #info tag
00:11:41 <EdMirielli> From where did the TOC note orginate when you set up the TOS account?
00:11:55 <Barrett_Koster> meetbot cheat sheet - got it.
00:12:00 <heidie> #info Some folks can get on TOS, but can't add themselves to roll call.
00:12:56 <lorip> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/POSSE_2014-11
00:13:07 <heidie> Barrett_Koster: Here is a link to last time's log:
00:13:07 <lorip> that contains our meeting minutes for the other IRC
00:13:10 <heidie> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/foss2serve/2014-10-24/foss2serve.2014-10-24-13.01.log.html
00:13:28 <heidie> Andd here are the minutes:
00:13:30 <heidie> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/foss2serve/2014-10-24/foss2serve.2014-10-24-13.01.html
00:14:00 <smoussavi> Will there be some time at the workshop to go over some of these activities?
00:14:23 <mchua> #info The past two links are examples of meetbot logs (from our last meeting)
00:14:53 <Barrett_Koster> Thanks, I got the logs.  How do I respond to a specific person ?
00:14:54 <heidie> msoussavi: Yes, the face-to-face meeting will pull together many of the things that you've been learning.
00:15:01 <Barrett_Koster> I notice that some notes are FOR ME.
00:15:03 <lorip> smoussavi: what did you have in mind?  any specifics activities?
00:15:09 <mchua> Barrett_Koster: in this channel where everyone can see it, or privately so only the target person can?
00:15:18 <heidie> Barrett_Koster: Type their "nick" before your comment
00:15:40 <mchua> (most IRC clients have tab-completion, so you can type the first letter or two of their name, then hit the Tab key)
00:15:40 <heidie> EdMirielli: I'm not sure that I understand your question. TOC?
00:16:05 <EdMirielli> heidie TOS account, typo
00:16:31 <mchua> Barrett_Koster: So right now, I'm calling you out in this message by putting your nick (Barrett_Koster) at the start of my message; try writing something starting with "mchua:" and you'll send one to me.
00:16:47 <mchua> Barrett_Koster: Everyone will still see it, but it will show up as highlighted on my screen so it's easier for me to pay attention to in a busy room.
00:16:57 <heidie> EdMirielli: I still not getting it. Are you asking where TOS account originates?
00:17:01 <heidie> Or about the error message?
00:17:21 <Barrett_Koster> mchua got it.
00:17:25 <Barrett_Koster> or not
00:17:33 <EdMirielli> heidie i recall seeing a note stating an new TOS account was setup by someone or I thought -- and it came via email
00:17:59 <heidie> Yes, it did come in via email.
00:18:06 <Barrett_Koster> mchua: missed the colon?
00:18:18 <smoussavi> nick lorip It would be too lengthy for a medium like this
00:18:20 <EdMirielli> heidie I can't locate it in my inbox -- who is the from?
00:18:20 <heidie> EdMirielli: Because the recaptcha is broken, you can't set up your own account.s
00:18:25 <StevenCrain> #info The initial TOS accoutn password came in an email from MediaWiki Mail <webadministrator@global.proximity.on.ca>
00:18:31 <Barrett_Koster> mchua: I need a shorter nick (nickname for nickname I assume).
00:18:33 <heidie> "teachingopensource" I belive
00:18:38 <heidie> EdMirielli: Might be from TOS
00:18:44 <mchua> Barrett_Koster: You did it! The colon isn't necessary, you just need to start the message with their nick.
00:18:52 <heidie> Thank you StevenCrain !
00:18:59 <Barrett_Koster> mchua ok.
00:19:13 <mchua> Barrett_Koster: Nah, some people have long nicks, it's ok. And yes, it's short for nickname.
00:19:51 <EdMirielli> heidie found it, but its from mediawiki mail... thanks
00:20:13 <heidie> Ah, good!
00:20:37 <heidie> Overall, don't worry too much if you can't access TOS.  Please do log progress on your foss2serve wiki
00:21:04 <heidie> And we're working to figure out the TOS issue.
00:21:43 <heidie> So let's do this in a somewhat more formal way.
00:22:10 <heidie> Could each of you provide a 1-2 sentence update on your progress, starting your comments with the #info tag so that they get in the notes?
00:22:14 <Barrett_Koster> mchua ok, but ... how do a I set a shorter one?
00:22:30 <heidie> #info Working on getting the TOS wiki accounts up and running.
00:22:34 <Barrett_Koster> heidie ok.
00:23:13 <EdMirielli> #info For me part b is taking more time that I thought, and is challended by my schedule... making progress but no posts yet
00:23:15 <swapneel> #info I'm working on the part b activities - I've done the sourceforge and ohloh parts and also the blog, will do the others tomorrow/wednesday
00:23:38 <StevenCrain> #info I complete Part A last week, and have done the field trip. I still have most of Part B to catch up on, though. Busiest time of the semester here.
00:23:44 <heidie> Ah, yes, please do feel free to time-block the activities.
00:23:57 <mchua> Barrett_Koster: Do the same thing you did to set up Barrett_Koster as your nick, but use the shorter nick.
00:23:58 <heidie> The idea is to spend 5-6 hours over 2 weeks, not lots and lots of hours.
00:24:08 <joanna_kl> #info I am making very slow progress on part B. I will be able to complete the activities by the end of this week though.
00:24:12 <BaochuanLu> #info Baochuan finished part B of stage 1, but he is not sure about some of the answers.
00:24:14 <mchua> Barrett_Koster: You could probably also just type "/nick bkos" (no quotes) into your IRC client and see what happens ;)
00:24:21 <heidie> joanna_kl: good!
00:24:46 <smoussavi> #info almost done with Part B, except writing the blog and wiki posts
00:24:49 <heidie> BaochuanLu: Good!  Bring all questions with you to stage 2 in November.
00:24:59 <joanna_kl> I guess we are all busy with students and now we are making the excuses that students normally give us ;)
00:25:02 <heidie> We don't expect anyone to be experts in any of this, just to be somewhat familiar.
00:25:03 <Barrett_Koster> #info I completed part A activities.  I just caught onto this IRC stuff Friday.  I'm just starting on the SourceForge stuff, but I luuuuv SourceForge, so I imagine this will go ok.
00:25:06 <heidie> :-)
00:25:07 <lynnlambert> #info I have not started part B as I did not know whether I could do it without my account.
00:25:22 <lorip> if something is taking longer than you think it should, please drop one of us a line
00:26:04 <mchua> barrett: see? magic!
00:26:05 <lorip> we are happy to point you in the right direction
00:26:06 <smoussavi> in general, completing the tasks steps by step, takes more than the time indicated
00:26:22 <barrett> mchua yup
00:26:40 <robry> #info I'm on track with tasks. Only problems I've encountered are not getting on TOS, could not download sample IRC logs, and I monitored two IRC for 5 days and there was no activity. Not clear if that is normal.
00:26:50 <Rduvall> #info doing a lot of reading of the resource materials and project info, but I have not started writing yet. Happy that it is consistent with what I thought I knew :)
00:26:51 * StevenCrain Barret the barbar: hey, I need a hair cut.
00:27:08 <lynnlambert> smoussavi: I agree with you.
00:27:15 <heidie> robry: Yes, the traffic in a channel depends a lot on the project and where it is at.
00:27:17 <mchua> robry: it is normal for small projects, very unusual for active/larger projects. Which channels were you monitoring?
00:27:31 <EdMirielli> #info I don't think any one thing is too much, just maintaining continuity using small blocks of time foes not work well for me personally
00:27:31 <Rduvall> BTW, when it asks for “data” on the SourceForge projects, what specifically are you looking for?
00:27:32 <heidie> If you monitored foss2serve, you wouldn't see much of anything for long stretches, and then a burst of activity.
00:27:41 <barrett> stevenCrain nice :-)  Maybe "barrett" works better.
00:27:55 <heidie> Rduvall: Looking...
00:29:02 <lorip> Rduvall: which question under the field trip part 1 are you referring to?
00:29:08 <heidie> Rduvall: Can you clarify?  What "data" in particular?
00:29:21 <EdMirielli> #info frankly I think the part b is well designed and involed - I want to get the most of it.
00:30:08 <heidie> Yes, although the project evaluation activity can eat up a lot of time if you get involved.
00:30:19 <heidie> johnrusso: How are you coming along
00:30:21 <heidie> ?
00:30:35 <robry> mchua The sugar labs channel and the Sahana channel
00:31:16 <mchua> robry: I wouldn't be surprised at shoe being smaller/quieter... in contrast, if you watch something like #fedora, you will get a flood
00:31:27 <heidie> robry Were you on the Sahana channel or the Sahana Eden channel?
00:31:28 <mchua> robry: er, by "shoe" I mean "those"
00:31:32 <mchua> (I cannot type tonight.)
00:31:45 <heidie> I think that Sahana has two different channels and the Eden channel is the current one.
00:32:13 <robry> heidie the Sahana Eden channel I think
00:32:20 <heidie> Ah, that's the right one.
00:32:47 <heidie> Anyone else have any updates?
00:32:52 <Rduvall> Nevermind, it was in one of the example assignments, not ours.
00:33:03 <heidie> Rduvall: Ah, OK, thanks.
00:33:34 <heidie> OK, lets try questions.
00:33:40 <heidie> #topic Questions on stage 1
00:33:54 <heidie> Does anyone have any specific questions on stage 1 activities?
00:34:02 <barrett> heidie: Sorry, not much actual content / questions from me.  But I appreciate the meta stuff , help with the IRC.
00:35:43 <heidie> OK, so I'm guessing that we've exhausted questions on stage 1.
00:35:47 <joanna_kl> Not on stage 1, but the workshop itself. I am using Ubuntu on my laptop, will this work for the workshop (going to RedHat and all).
00:35:52 <joanna_kl> I generally work on RedHat based systems, but there were too many drivers issues for my current laptop.
00:35:58 <heidie> Let me encourage you all to please log progress on the foss2serve wiki.
00:36:07 <mchua> The The assignments can be done *super* quickly once you're fluent with FOSS tools and terminology -- much like anything else. (We can code a "Hello World" function in our sleep in 30 seconds, but the first time a new student tries, it takes forever.)
00:36:13 <mchua> #link http://blog.melchua.com/2010/10/08/possesa-fri-5-minutes-of-improvisation/ is a demo of how to quickly scope out a FOSS project in less than 5 minutes, and is roughly equivalent to one of your assignments (I think).
00:36:20 <heidie> This helps us understand your progress and also what things need more coverage during stage 2.
00:36:49 <heidie> So if you haven't logged on the foss2serve wiki, please do so ASAP.
00:37:25 <heidie> #topic Questions on stage 2
00:37:43 <heidie> #info Ubuntu is fine for a platform, joanna_kl
00:37:54 <joanna_kl> heidie: thanks
00:37:58 <lorip> feel free to ask questions about logistics, etc.
00:38:12 <EdMirielli> mchua thanks for the 5min inprov
00:38:14 <heidie> In fact, any linux distro is preferrable to Windows for the most part.
00:38:57 <heidie> #info We'll get you information on exact location and room soon.
00:38:58 <robry> Do we need a linux distro for the workshop?
00:39:14 <heidie> We've got a question into Red Hat about that and are waiting to hear back.
00:39:25 <lorip> not necessarily - it depends upon which project you want to work with
00:39:29 <heidie> robry: Most open source projects are on some variant of linux.
00:39:43 <heidie> We have had people work successfully on a VirtualBox image in the past.
00:40:05 <lorip> for example, the OpenMRS dev environment can be installed on Windows, Linux or Mac
00:40:40 <smoussavi> I tried to login to add myself to rollcall, but even the username and password I got in the email, doesn't work
00:41:20 <heidie> smoussavi: OK, so leave that and log progress on the foss2serve wiki
00:41:27 <lorip> robry: what environment do you foresee your students using?
00:41:35 <heidie> smoussavi: You should have received an email from ghislop with information about that account.
00:41:52 <lorip> our students used OpenMRS on windows, so I used that as my dev environment
00:42:47 <robry> lorip I can have them use a linux version - I was just wondering for the workshop which box I need to bring.
00:43:00 <lorip> I would bring linux then...
00:43:15 <EdMirielli> much of our departmental backend is CentOS, I was considering that... and thought or concerns?
00:43:37 <heidie> EdMirielli: CentOS should be fine.
00:44:58 <lorip> other questions?
00:45:10 <mchua> I will say that Linux is a generally good life skill for technical-type people, *but* also (as some of you already know) has a steep learning curve.
00:45:25 <mchua> It's a tradeoff whether you want your students to spend their time climbing that learning curve for Linux, or climbing it for something else.
00:45:50 <mchua> (Especially if prereq courses teach it, or later courses use it, etc.)
00:46:52 <robry> since one of our goals is to get many of our liberal arts students involved in HFOSS the learning curve does pose a significant hurdle.
00:46:54 <heidie> Are there other questions?
00:47:11 <lynnlambert> What is the alternative to Linux? Windows machines?
00:47:12 <mchua> That having been said, I personally prefer having students use a true Linux system over one running in VirtualBox; installing VirtualBox often takes more time than just dual-booting the same computer.
00:47:36 <lorip> #info we will have 1 more IRC before we meet in Raleigh - the two times will probably be Fri  11/7 or Mon 11/10
00:47:39 <EdMirielli> how much of stage 2 will be focused on OS and how much on the SW project? Maybe I missed that somewhere...
00:48:04 <lorip> SW project?
00:48:12 <mchua> robry: robry: yeah, I hear you on that. Picking projects that are very, very Windows-dev friendly will be important, then.
00:48:32 <EdMirielli> working on the FOSS project chosen
00:48:39 <heidie> lynnlambert: Windows machines also work and will get you through stage 2 fine.
00:48:47 <mchua> robry: or will they be doing coding at all? A lot of content work is often platform-agnostic -- you do whatever you do, then submit it via email or a web interface or something.
00:49:10 <heidie> lynnlambert: I mention linux because folks typically want to get the environment set up for a project during stage 2 and may need Linux, depending on the project.
00:49:15 <lorip> EdMirielli: the focus definitely is the HFOSS project
00:49:25 <lynnlambert> I was wondering about my students more than me. I did not see in the projects whether they had to develop in Linux.
00:49:32 <mchua> robry: you can do a fantastic amount of FOSS contribution with just a web browser, actually.
00:49:33 <heidie> EdMirielli: Stage 2 is mostly focused on the actual project.
00:49:35 <EdMirielli> lorip just checking with all the OS chat
00:50:17 <lorip> EdMirielli:  I think people just want to make sure they have an appropriate environment for working on the HFOSS project
00:50:19 <heidie> Again, its just that what typically happens is that during stage 2 participants want to get started and many of the projects are on Linux so they can't unless they've got Linux either native or virtually.
00:50:27 <robry> mchua We don't have details yet - just now forming the program but a significant target are humanities majors with career goals in international/ngos
00:50:34 <lynnlambert> mchua: that answers my OS question for students. We can try to work in a browser environment
00:50:43 <mchua> lynnlambert, robry: Matt Jadud at Berea and Karl Wurst at Worcester have both taught first-year humanities courses where the students contributed to FOSS without a whit of coding
00:50:45 <heidie> lynnlambert: Many of the projects are in Linux, but not all.
00:51:14 <heidie> lynnlambert: And my experience is that students do fine in a Linux environment as long as they've got a desktop.
00:51:29 <mchua> lynnlambert, robry: their contributions were things like social media outreach plans, marketing materials, translations, tutorials, testing/feedback -- very useful
00:51:43 <heidie> lynnlambert: They're used to having a variety of icon-based interfaces between their computers, tablets and phones so Linux ends up being just one more.
00:51:57 <EdMirielli> lorip understood on OS
00:52:05 <mchua> lynnlambert, robry: (and actually helpful that they *didn't* have coding background -- they were able to articulate quite precisely what the experience of a novice user were)
00:52:10 <lynnlambert> I want my students to code. I was just hoping that they could do part of it on a neutral platform.
00:52:31 <robry> I think I'll bring a laptop with both environments - then I can choose at the time.
00:52:41 <heidie> robry: :-) I  like that idea!
00:52:56 <heidie> I've got a dual-boot machine and I'm workingn on mounting my Windows partition from the Linux side.
00:53:09 <EdMirielli> robry that is a good idea
00:54:12 <Rduvall> Doesn’t anyone have a Mac?  It seems like the debate is only between Linux and Windows :)
00:54:39 <smoussavi> I have a Mac
00:54:42 <lorip> stoney has a mac, doesn't he heidie?
00:54:44 <StevenCrain> Rduvall: Now adays, there isn't that much difference between Mac and Linux.
00:55:04 <lynnlambert> Rduvall: I have a mac, and VMFusion for the few times I need Windows (and I'll add Linux), but many of my students use Windows, so I was asking about that.
00:55:05 <Rduvall> That was my point!
00:55:09 <mchua> lynnlambert: I'd make sure you choose a project that runs cross-platform, then -- but that's absolutely possible and should not be hard to find.
00:55:22 <heidie> Yes, Stoney develops on a mac.
00:55:24 <heidie> That works too.
00:55:31 <StevenCrain> Rduvall: the Macs even have more than one mouse button now! ;-)
00:57:09 <zsweedyk> I have to leave now.  Talk to you all soon.
00:57:11 <swapneel> sorry, i need to run - train in 10 min.. nice talking to all of you
00:57:12 <heidie> We are approaching 9:00 p.m.
00:57:18 <heidie> Any final questions?
00:57:20 <swapneel> see you at the next IRC meeting
00:57:29 <barrett> until next time
00:57:34 <lynnlambert> Thank you all. bye
00:57:40 <heidie> I usually hang out on this IRC channel so feel free to ping me with questions.
00:57:43 <heidie> I'll end the meeting.
00:57:46 <heidie> #endmeeting