19:57:30 <kwurst> #startmeeting
19:57:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Feb  3 19:57:30 2014 UTC.  The chair is kwurst. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:57:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:57:31 <janaya_> yes
19:57:43 <kwurst> #topic Roll Call
19:58:07 <kwurst> Everyone should say something so your name gets recorded in the minutes as being here
19:58:10 <Alan_Boulais> k
19:58:10 <acordor_> here
19:58:12 <Mgibson2> something
19:58:12 <janaya_> < present
19:58:15 <Dhimitris> here
19:58:15 <ckelley6> here
19:58:30 <kprimmer> present
19:58:34 <nzelaya> hello
19:58:38 <TR__> #present
19:58:45 <em_trieu> hi every one
19:58:59 <ckelley6> 
19:59:55 <kwurst> Everyone check in?
20:00:10 <kprimmer> ...maybe?
20:00:12 <kwurst> OK, then on to the meeting
20:00:18 <yzhou> ok
20:00:19 <Alan_Boulais> idt so but close 'nuff
20:00:23 <kwurst> #topic Readings
20:00:42 <Alan_Boulais> cathedral and the bazaar to start off?
20:00:46 <kwurst> #topic The Cathedral and the Bazaar
20:00:48 <MattLop> Hi everyone
20:00:52 <Alan_Boulais> 'sup
20:00:59 <kwurst> So, what did you think of the article?
20:01:29 <kprimmer> Probably the longest one...but at least it was more interesting than most textbooks
20:01:33 <kwurst> Do you think that it showed it's age? Or is it still relevant?
20:01:43 <acordor_> it was informative
20:01:45 <Alan_Boulais> super tech savvy guy in the 80's discoveres the power of opensource development for this first time?  Still relevant
20:02:01 <janaya> it was older info but still applied to topics today
20:02:03 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: Is that sarcasm?
20:02:13 <Alan_Boulais> no, it was actually a good read
20:02:36 <kwurst> Any particular take-aways for any of you?
20:02:40 <tbruce> I must agree even thought the artical was a 'bit' outdated it was very relevant to day. Good read
20:02:57 <kwurst> Anything you hadn't thought of before?
20:03:44 <kwurst> #agreed CATB is still relevant even though a bit outdated
20:04:05 <kwurst> No other comments?
20:04:11 <janaya> Mostly just the origins and history of linux, and this quote stuck out to me: "Too often software developers spend days grinding away for pay at programs they neither need nor love."
20:04:20 <Alan_Boulais> there was the few kinda "common sense" points made such as keeping your bug testers and feedback is of absolute importance to a development community
20:04:20 <kprimmer> ...are those commands not working? They're showing up like normal
20:04:34 <Alan_Boulais> --quickly skimming through to find the parts of the article I thought were very interesting; without mis-quoting--
20:04:47 <MattLop> It seemed to focus more on the bazaar methodology
20:04:57 <kwurst> kprimmer: I think they are working. When they don't I usually get error messages
20:05:17 <janaya> ^ that comment showed in my thread, is it not supposed to?
20:05:22 <tbruce> I liked the quote "Too often software developers spend their days grinding away for pay at programs they neither need nor love".
20:05:23 <TR__> Yea I felt it was similar to a conspiracy theory in that it just used arguments that supported its cause
20:05:33 <TR__> not that I'm saying it is a conspiracy theory
20:05:47 <TR__> just that it was a bit one sided
20:05:56 <kwurst> MattLop: Well at the time, that was the new methodology. People all pretty much understood the cathedral methodology
20:06:16 <Mgibson2> i think most articles will be one sided its hard to see the other side
20:06:16 <ckelley6> ya i think that it left out the benefits of the cathedral
20:06:26 <kwurst> janaya: Yes, everyone can still read those, it's just that I'm answering that person specifically.
20:06:36 <Alan_Boulais> --ah here we go, the part regarding keeping in close contact with an ever growing beta list and always listen and take feedback
20:06:36 <Alan_Boulais> For a good number of smaller companies I feel like simply taking feedback (the ones I've been involved with anyway) they completely missed the ball here
20:06:36 <Alan_Boulais> and it hurts the loyalty of the beta user base as they stop showing interest when you (the developer) does
20:06:41 <kprimmer> it didn't do much of 'compare and contrast;
20:06:48 <kwurst> janaya: If you want to speak with someone privately, you can do a private chat with just them.
20:06:53 <kprimmer> more' this is why it's so great'
20:07:30 <kwurst> TR__: RE: onsidedness - well it is a persuasive article... He's trying to convince you...
20:07:57 <kwurst> ckelley6: What are the benefits of the cathedral?
20:08:09 <MattLop> kwurst: True but I feel that the cathedral methodology sparks competition between companies.
20:08:30 <kprimmer> I think the point was they didn't really give benifits to cathedral
20:08:46 <ckelley6> theres a much larger chance in my opinion for a more cohesive pruduct at the end, rather than trying to piece the works a of a bunch of dissimilar people together
20:08:48 <kprimmer> *benefits
20:08:59 <kwurst> kprimmer: What are those benefits?
20:09:41 <janaya> broad knowledge that they can bring to the project instead of a focused small group that might not represent a larger base relevant to the market
20:09:49 <TR__> I do like the idea of coding in a group / community setting though it adds a baked in code review which is interesting
20:10:03 <kwurst> ckelley6: Agreed, although the flip side is that you get groupthink, and don't break outside their usual ideas....
20:10:41 <kwurst> ckelley6: And, you usually have a small team of people leading the project, whose job it is to make the big decisions on direction.
20:10:58 <kwurst> ckelley6: Few FOSS projects are really free-for-alls
20:11:14 <janaya> that's the trouble with open-source sometimes, you have to deal with keeping direction
20:11:51 <Mgibson2> Group codeing also brings in idea from people you might not have thought of i think the best way to do large group projects is have a small group of leaders with everyone else contributing
20:12:07 <Alan_Boulais> alternative solutions to a single problem or project isn't a bad thing, its the ability for a select few to keep the larger groups cohesive that becomes the challenge, I feel
20:12:10 <kwurst> janaya: Yes, you often have people whose entire job is community management. I've known at least two people who were paid just to manage an open source community
20:13:01 <Alan_Boulais> on what scale does that become indivual(s) job to simply keep cohesion?  And does it actually become an issue that often?
20:13:02 <TR__> If a community gets too large do you think it will intimidate people from contributing?
20:13:38 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: One person I know was the Red Hat community manager. So that's a pretty big community.
20:13:45 <Alan_Boulais> True
20:13:54 <janaya> Depending on the context, yes I would assume it would. People may not feel that their contributions would mean much in a larger community and be apprehensive about interacting at all
20:14:00 <ckelley6> I think it would be more of an opposite response: there more people in the group the easier it would be to join
20:14:08 <Mgibson2> well if you were to have OpenMRS with no leaders it would fall apart it up to each group to decide when to get leaders
20:14:23 <kprimmer> it kicked me out..:(
20:14:33 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: Another was hired by a company that wanted to make their project open source, and he was supposed to try to build a process that would involve more of the community, and teach the company employees to run the project more openly.
20:14:35 <tbruce> plus with such a large community it will allow you to have many resources
20:14:44 <acordor_> TR: not really I think it encourages more people to even get more involve
20:14:48 <kwurst> kprimmer: Were you on the web client?
20:15:08 <MattLop> TR_   Or maybe the project moves  in a direction you didn't intend it to.
20:15:37 <kprimmer> kwurst: I was using freenode.net, then it kicked off, and I had to reload everything
20:15:59 <Alan_Boulais> Agree'd with TR, I feel that as it grows, its less intimidating to join.  There are more (maybe less important) opportunities and smaller tasks to get your feet wet with the project before diving full on in
20:16:03 <janaya> acordor_: bandwagon coding? the more people involved, the larger the perception of importance maybe?
20:16:06 <Mgibson2> mattlop: all projects can move in a new directio at anytime you have to beable to adapt
20:16:32 <nzelaya> I agree with acordor. I think it could encourage more people to contribute
20:16:34 <kwurst> kprimmer: So you were not running on an IR client you installed? I've seen that happen with the web client before. You may want to install a client when you get a chance.
20:17:22 <kprimmer> kwurst: I might if it becomes a repeating problem, but I think I might know what triggered it.
20:17:34 <kwurst> Out of comments about this reading?
20:18:02 <kwurst> Ready to move on...
20:18:07 <kwurst> going once...
20:18:11 <janaya> sure
20:18:12 <Alan_Boulais> Well here is another comment, when he states "Good programmers know what to write, great ones know what to rewrite" is that just
20:18:13 <Alan_Boulais> ...
20:18:20 <Alan_Boulais> lol slow typing sorry
20:18:39 <Mgibson2> lol i cant type fast at all dont feel bad
20:18:45 * kwurst waits for Alan_Boulais
20:18:56 <Alan_Boulais> a reference to know how to recycle good code or is there a large deposit of code or just commercially free open code that
20:19:11 <Alan_Boulais> you can gain access to and adjust it your needs per project basis
20:19:42 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: Hmmm, I'll have to go back and reread to see what I think it means...
20:20:09 <janaya> Alan_Boulais: I think it's referring to the idea that a great programmer knows that code can always been improved on repeatedly, rather than just to let it be written once or twice. Even though it might work 100% fine, great programmers will improve efficiency.
20:20:23 <kwurst> #action kwurst Find "Good programmers know what to write, great ones know what to rewrite"  and figure out what it means...
20:20:40 <janaya> that was my take on it at least...
20:20:43 <Alan_Boulais> much appreciated, the comment just seemed rather vague
20:20:54 <kwurst> Ok, moving on...
20:21:19 <kwurst> #topic Free vs. Open
20:21:20 <TR__> Alan_Boulais: I feel it speaks to what programming is all about... I heard somewhere that one of the main ideas of programming is to make it so that if something has been done once it never has to be redone
20:21:37 <kwurst> Opinions on Free vs. Open?
20:22:00 <kwurst> I'm guessing if you found CATB one-sided...
20:22:05 <TR__> ...and by rewriting code not starting from scratch you get to piggyback off of the work already done by others
20:22:06 <kprimmer> seemed more a philosophy debate...
20:22:07 <janaya> to classify something as "Free" software, I think the requirements might be a little harsh
20:22:12 <Alan_Boulais> also good read, not sure If I'm entirely clear on the "clear cut" definition of both
20:22:33 <Alan_Boulais> TR__: thanks
20:22:41 <kprimmer> The meanings are mostly the same, the debate seems more on the ideology
20:23:05 <kwurst> kprimmer: Ooooh, you'll bring down the wrath of RMS on you...
20:23:42 <kwurst> So, anyone want to try to explain the difference between Free and Open?
20:23:51 <Alan_Boulais> I feel like I need a venn diagram to see both, at one point I think the article was discussing that most things that are <free(?)> could also be labeled as <open(?)> under circumstances
20:24:01 <Alan_Boulais> I think i may have switched the terms around tho
20:24:01 <nzelaya> I really enjoyed reading free vs open. I liked the idea that it is more focus about to share,...
20:24:02 <Mgibson2> i think they are both similar one is just a subset of the other
20:24:14 <janaya> i think one's a synonym of the other
20:24:23 <ckelley6> a venn diagram would help, there did seem to be a lot of overlap
20:24:29 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: I think that Free includes Open in almost all cases, but not the other way around
20:24:29 <Alan_Boulais> definately
20:24:34 <Alan_Boulais> ah
20:24:54 <kwurst> janaya: Again, RMS is gonna strike you down...
20:25:08 <kwurst> Do people know who RMS is?
20:25:10 <ckelley6> what is RMS?
20:25:16 <janaya> 3 people
20:25:26 <Alan_Boulais> So Free is more or less availble without charge *looks back at article to avoid mis-quoting* where as open was also free, but included source and documenation..?
20:25:29 <kprimmer> isn't it that 'open' can be more restrictive; i.e. you can't freely alter and post your own versions
20:25:48 <nzelaya> they are pretty much the same except that open source licenses are too restrictive; cannot be use it as it is our means, and do not allow the user to install modified versions of executable.
20:25:51 <tbruce> :ckelley6 Risk Management Solutions I believe
20:26:13 <Mgibson2> Google guy^
20:26:15 <Alan_Boulais> thanks natalue
20:26:20 <Alan_Boulais> natalie*
20:26:43 <tbruce> Mgibson2: Yep!
20:26:44 <kwurst> RMS is Richard M Stallman - the founder of the Free Software Foundation. He gets very upset if you call something Free Software that doesn't fit his definition.
20:27:07 <Mgibson2> Google guy was Wrong lol
20:27:30 * Alan_Boulais googles Richard M Stallman...
20:28:16 <kwurst> nzelaya: That's good.
20:28:17 <kprimmer> Alan_Boulais: Didn't he write two of those three articles for this reading..?
20:28:32 <Alan_Boulais> yes he did
20:28:53 <tbruce> *Wikipedia source: He is best known for launching the GNU Project
20:28:54 <Alan_Boulais> "Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software  by Richard Stallman"
20:29:09 <TR__> What i took away was that open source was a methodology, a principal to coding while the free software was essentially the result of following those methods
20:29:42 <Alan_Boulais> "When we call software “free,” we mean that it respects the users' essential freedoms: the freedom to run it, to study and change it, and to redistribute copies with or without changes. This is a matter of freedom, not price, so think of “free speech,” not “free beer.”"
20:29:44 <janaya> open source = process, free software = result?
20:29:46 <kwurst> nzelaya: You are right about the restrictive licenses issue, and most Free Software Licenses force someone reusing code to make it Free also. Certainly the Gnu Public License does.
20:30:07 <Alan_Boulais> So free software is more on the principal of the usability of the software and what users can do with it
20:30:32 <kwurst> And that you give everyone else the same rights you were given
20:30:47 <Alan_Boulais> The original developer's intentions is to get the software to the masses for their benefit and allow them to adjust it as they see fit
20:31:04 <Alan_Boulais> with limited or no restrictions on the matter
20:31:11 <janaya> free to modify, free to distribute, etc.
20:31:14 <kwurst> I agree with RMS in general, and release my own code under the GPL license, but I don't need to make money off it.
20:31:20 <kprimmer> 'Free' is none, at all
20:31:21 <Alan_Boulais> open source seems to be much more restricted in that regards
20:31:57 <kprimmer> that's RMS's point
20:32:11 <MattLop> Nothing in life is truly free, there's always a catch.
20:32:20 <kprimmer> he doesn't like those restrictions
20:33:05 <kprimmer> MattLop: it's not about price
20:33:06 <Alan_Boulais> "he two terms describe almost the same category of software, but they stand for views based on fundamentally different values. Open source is a development methodology; free software is a social movement." ok so that is the takeaway point Mr. Stallman  seems to really want to push
20:33:34 <kwurst> MattLop: Yes, and it's rare that someone can afford to donate all their work with no compensation. I can do it because the University pays me to do what I do, and I consider it part of my job to make available to the public what I produce.
20:34:01 <janaya> Would you do it if you weren't paid?
20:34:12 <Alan_Boulais> If I had a highly paid side job...
20:34:35 <kwurst> janaya: I guess it would depend on how much time I had outside my regular work...
20:34:50 <Mgibson2> i have made small code items that are free but large projects will get a price tag
20:35:02 <nzelaya> but what the article means by social movement???
20:35:13 <kprimmer> the whole 'free' aspect does make it seem like something to do in spare time...
20:35:17 <kwurst> janaya: I like to think that I would, but I can't be sure. I don't know how much time I would have outside of the time I spend on work stuff...
20:35:51 <kprimmer> nzelaya: that's why I likened it to a philosophy debate
20:35:58 <kwurst> nzelaya: He's trying to change the way society thinks about property, and people's contributions to society.
20:36:32 <TR__> so is it communist programming?
20:36:34 <kwurst> Although RMS hates the term intellectual property. He thinks you can't own thoughts and ideas, or their expression
20:36:45 <janaya> it seems like "The Greater Good" idea is floating around
20:36:51 <Alan_Boulais> Hence why it was labeled as a movement
20:37:00 <kprimmer> "communist"? :)
20:37:19 <kwurst> That's commie pinko liberal to you...
20:37:37 <TR__> it will be interesting to see how the dichotomy between our capitalist society and this movement play out
20:37:54 <janaya> 'merica
20:37:58 <kprimmer> Ah....yeah, good point
20:38:13 <Alan_Boulais> I wouldn't say its communist mindset....
20:38:37 <kprimmer> Probably not how I'd describe it either, but I can get the point
20:38:41 <kwurst> TR__: Yes, it has been doing pretty well, despite our primarily capitalist society here.
20:39:12 <kwurst> kprimmer: Yours was a joke, and so was mine. I forgot to add ;-)
20:39:20 <kprimmer> programmers/hackers make their own rules! :P
20:39:22 <Alan_Boulais> Its a distributions of necesary resources, like the free software given to the schools (free unix system to the spanish school)
20:39:41 <nzelaya> kwurst: I agree, and i think it is a  way to contribute intellectually
20:39:45 <Alan_Boulais> There are also probably large social benefits to being known as distributing a large amount of free software
20:39:47 <Alan_Boulais> that could outweigh the monetary drawbacks
20:39:49 <kprimmer> Certainly not a bad policy, all in all
20:40:05 <kwurst> Actually, that line was used this weekend in a discussion on Open Source that I was involved in, so I was referencing a discussion you were not involved in - my bad
20:40:12 <Alan_Boulais> often, social standings in development communities are how you can be labeled as "the guy" to go to
20:40:36 <TR__> Alan_Boulais: i Hope it does, i heard once that the fastest way to kill someones passion was to pay them to do it
20:41:01 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: Yes, a lot of the payment people get in an open source community is what is sometimes called ego boo - ego boosting.
20:41:06 <Alan_Boulais> if you are the one doing a large bulk of work and then distributing it freely, many people start to depend on you, which is a type of social power
20:41:14 <kprimmer> Alan_Boulais: not exactly the point of the argument; its more about being able to edit, change, and redistribute, than cost itself
20:41:48 <kwurst> Ok, are we ready to move on soon?
20:41:50 <Alan_Boulais> Oh, ha yeah I was still on the topic of captialist -> just do it for the money vs social benefit reasons
20:42:01 <kprimmer> "social power" <- true enough
20:42:39 <kwurst> Ok, moving on...
20:42:43 <Alan_Boulais> be the alpha male (programmer)
20:42:43 <kwurst> #topic OpenMRS Developer Guide
20:42:50 <nzelaya> Alan_Boulais the point is not to depend on other people's work the point is to improve what is already done
20:43:24 <kwurst> What did people think of the first 4 chapters?
20:43:47 <kprimmer> ...well, it was good to know what we're going to work with, but it was mostly an into like what was said in class
20:44:14 <kprimmer> intro*
20:44:17 <kwurst> Does it sound like a project you are interested in helping with?
20:44:37 <tbruce> Well just to get to the conclusion, in chapter 4 there is a list of bullet point of how large of a contribution the openMRS project has already had in the world!  Each one of those statistics is amazing
20:45:04 <nzelaya> was very informative
20:45:18 <TR__> a bit hydrophobic
20:45:30 <kprimmer> well, sure. I'm not exactly one to hold back with giving help, if I can offer it
20:45:38 <kwurst> tbruce: Does that make you feel like it's too big for you to help with? Or do you like that it's so big?
20:45:40 <kprimmer> not too sure what I can offer, though
20:45:44 <kwurst> TR__: Huh?
20:45:54 <TR__> ...dry
20:46:13 <kwurst> TR__: Ahh. Got it.
20:46:27 <janaya> Personally I would have liked to see something a little smaller in scale
20:46:40 <kwurst> kprimmer: Well, the first two readings for this week might help.
20:46:41 <kprimmer> kinda intimidating..?
20:46:52 <kprimmer> kwurst: my thoughts exactly
20:47:04 <tbruce> kwurst: I like that the project is so big, even if I make a small contribution to the project I know that it will be a part of a large project that can help many people. Also I think large projects are appealing rather than intimidating due to the vast amount of resources you have
20:47:06 <janaya> not intimidating, but I'm not feeling the direct impact of it, so I guess I lose that attachment to the project
20:47:37 <kwurst> One of the reasons I chose this project, it that they seem to be well organized, with a formal development methodology.
20:48:02 <kwurst> So, you should get a good feeling for how a formal process works, and learn a good set of tools.
20:48:41 <kwurst> And, as I read further into the guide, I was struck with how much it seems they really want to involve newbies.
20:49:01 <kwurst> They seem to have really put a decent amount of effort into being welcoming.
20:49:02 <kprimmer> janaya: you mean, because it doesn't affect you directly, or because your personal efforts are so minuscule in the grand scheme of things..?
20:49:59 <kprimmer> well, I could certainly claim a title like 'newbie' :D
20:50:20 <nzelaya> same here!
20:50:38 <TR__> same here
20:50:42 <kprimmer> especially when I get the tendency to over-complicate things
20:50:42 <janaya> kprimmer: more towards the first part... to make a terrible comparison: you donate $1 to a simple charity outside a grocery store. You know to who you're donating and for what it's going to be used for, but you won't see the changes made directly.
20:50:58 <janaya> unless of course it's a local charity
20:51:04 <TR__> but i am excited to see that they are using a lot of the tools that seem to be prominent in the industry, jura, bamboo, git
20:51:21 <TR__> i haven't looked but hopefully we will be using spring
20:51:32 <TR__> jira*
20:51:37 <kwurst> And, it's written mostly in Java, which you should all be comfortable with...
20:51:51 <kwurst> TR__: Yep, I saw Spring in there.
20:51:55 <Alan_Boulais> wireless card failure... sorry
20:52:09 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: Welcome back...
20:52:11 <TR__> awesome!
20:52:12 <Alan_Boulais> ty
20:52:13 <kprimmer> Alan_Boulais: hey, you got back in faster than I did
20:52:27 <Alan_Boulais> neat!
20:52:39 <kwurst> TR__: Can you  tell us what Spring is for? I don't really know yet...
20:52:44 <ckelley6> most of that money is going to overhead costs and administration in a lost of cases anyways, people taking you money under the guise of a cause, even though you may feel better afterwards
20:53:23 <kwurst> I'm going to be learning a lot of new things along with you guys this semester.
20:53:28 <TR__> kwurst: I'm not 100% but its a java framework and methodology for developing webapps
20:53:33 <ckelley6> in response to janaya, im not sure how to do the response thing
20:53:41 <TR__> kwurst: other than that I'm not to suere
20:53:50 <Alan_Boulais> I think its just <name: message>
20:53:54 <janaya> ^
20:54:01 <kwurst> Alan_Boulais: Beat me to it...
20:54:06 <Alan_Boulais> ninja'd
20:54:11 <kprimmer> ckelley6: type the first couple letters of the name, then tab
20:54:11 <TR__> I know that these are all the tools that Staples.com is moving towards using
20:54:33 <janaya> as far as what goes...?
20:54:38 <tbruce> TR__: so does Spring allow us to generate somthing such a *.war and then deploy it on a Tomcat server?
20:54:43 <kwurst> TR__: So they must be using it for the front end.
20:54:51 <TR__> so if its good enough for one fortune 500 company its gotta be good for others
20:54:58 <kwurst> tbruce: Maybe.
20:55:16 * Alan_Boulais I think i missed a couple key lines with the convo TR is having
20:55:22 <kwurst> We have OpenMRS installed on a Tomcat server on campus.
20:55:35 <TR__> tbruce: In my experience you code in the spring tool kit then use a tool like maven to package the war
20:55:47 <janaya> Alan_Boulais: they're talking about Spring, a platform
20:55:57 <Alan_Boulais> janaya:  tanks
20:56:00 <kwurst> I could set up accounts for all of you to try it out, but you're going to install it on your own machine anyway, so what't the point...
20:56:15 <tbruce> Ohhh okay.
20:56:31 <tbruce> is the openMRS project a maven project?
20:56:34 <kwurst> You can see the main page at openmrs.worcester.edu
20:56:39 <TR__> Alan_Boulais: I was just saying that even though this is an open source project we are using some relevant tools
20:57:10 <kwurst> Do you want accounts? Since you probably won't get the dev environment and install set up for at least a week
20:57:21 <janaya> I'm ok with just waiting
20:57:38 <janaya> I'm looking at the site
20:57:51 <Mgibson2> if its going to be on my computer no need to do extra work
20:57:57 <TR__> tbruce: i didn't see a pom.xml on their github page so idk...doesnt look like it
20:57:58 <Alan_Boulais> I'm in no particular rush, since like you said with the dev enviorment
20:58:15 <kwurst> I installed the site for use in the Health Informatics course for the Nursing students to use.
20:58:22 <tbruce> we should get a instance of jenkins running here so we can continuously integrate our software!
20:58:50 <kwurst> The cool think from that point of view is that it came with a database of 5000 patients and 500,000 observations to play with.
20:58:51 <ckelley6> I think they have a CI server already, although it probably wouldn't hurt
20:59:00 <tbruce> Jenkins being a OpenSource CI(Continuous Integration) solution written in java that forked off after a dispute with oracle
20:59:02 <TR__> tbruce: wait nm there is one so yes it looks like a maven project
20:59:28 <TR__> tbruce: ckelley6 : yea thats what bamboo is
20:59:31 <kwurst> tbruce: Care to explain what CI is?
20:59:57 <kwurst> I've been thinking of installing a CI server on campus...
21:00:13 <Alan_Boulais> more toys to play with?
21:00:16 <ckelley6> Jenkins works very well, pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it
21:00:29 <TR__> ckelley6: +1 fir jenkins
21:00:49 * kprimmer is starting to get lost...
21:00:56 <kwurst> I'm glad to see that we have some people with experience with some of the tools already. Should make things easier...
21:00:58 <TR__> kwurst: I've set up a few jenkins instances
21:01:04 <tbruce> Continuous integration is a development method where developers commit or check in code many time throughout the day and when the CI server (such as bamboo or jenkins) see changes in the projects it will then kick off a build
21:01:19 <tbruce> this allows for bugs to be discovered quicklu
21:01:21 <tbruce> quickly
21:01:23 <kwurst> kprimmer: You're probably not the only one. We should probably wrap up.
21:01:25 <janaya> Isn't that dangerous though?
21:01:30 <tbruce> and features to be implemented quickers
21:01:33 <tbruce> quicker*
21:02:10 <kwurst> #Final thoughts
21:02:11 <ckelley6> and the code can be polled from your SCM, so in a sense all you need to do is commit your code and it builds itself, usually overnight
21:02:19 <kwurst> #topics Final Thoughts
21:02:30 <kwurst> So, how did you like the IRC class?
21:02:47 <Mgibson2> it didnt change the topic...
21:02:52 * Alan_Boulais reists typing a stupid comment
21:02:56 <Alan_Boulais> yes this was good
21:03:07 <kwurst> #topic Final Thoughts
21:03:15 <kwurst> Mgibson2: better?
21:03:19 <Mgibson2> yep
21:03:35 <kwurst> Any other comments on the readings or assignments?
21:03:56 <Alan_Boulais> eerily silent in the class, but this was productive I thought.  I think I'm all good with comments on the readings
21:04:22 * TR__ nods in agreement
21:04:25 <kwurst> OK, then if there are no other comments, we can end.
21:04:31 <kprimmer> eh, i've had just as quiet classes before
21:04:33 <Alan_Boulais> discussion helped a bit understand the difference with open source v free
21:04:40 <kwurst> See you all next Monday.
21:04:42 <kprimmer> um....no, I got nothing
21:04:47 <kwurst> #endmeeting