20:00:39 #startmeeting 20:00:39 Meeting started Fri May 21 20:00:39 2010 UTC. The chair is gbinns. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:39 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:01:23 #topic Websites Team Meeting - Who is here? 20:02:04 hi all - anyone out there? 20:02:08 * ardchoille is here 20:02:31 ardchoille: hello 20:02:40 Hi 20:02:54 let's wait a few minutes to see if anyone else joins us 20:05:22 ok, let's get going 20:05:38 #topic F13 Release Next Week 20:06:31 the f13 release is scheduled for next week 20:06:45 Woot! 20:06:45 zang! 20:06:49 :) 20:07:13 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule 20:07:27 I'm on f13 now and it's quite nice, faster than f12 on my machine too. 20:07:34 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Final_Release_Criteria 20:08:20 sweet - i have been using it too 20:09:52 #info thank you to everyone who has been contributing, kicking butt, and working hard on preparing f13 for the release! 20:10:38 #topic get.fp.o status 20:11:22 sijis said that all design and content is done 20:11:55 the only thing he said is left is filling in the iso links 20:12:24 #info all design and content is done - the only thing that remains is filling in the iso links 20:12:31 I have an issue 20:12:44 ardchoille: what's that? 20:13:05 It's a bug, hold on and let me find it 20:13:21 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2049 20:13:50 I'm also installing git and apache so I can help with these things 20:14:39 ok great - thanks for bringing up this issue 20:15:02 I know where the links are to the f13 sums, I just don't know how to add them to the verify page yet 20:15:21 #info ardchoille made note of an issue, https://fedoraproject.org/verify does not provide llinks for F13 alpha checksum files 20:15:32 #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2049 20:15:36 I feel that this bug needs to be fixed before f13 release so people have the sums to check against 20:15:54 agreed 20:16:08 ricky: are you around? 20:18:21 ok, ardchoille, will you email this issue to the mailing list and make a note to follow-up if you haven't heard back regarding it by monday? 20:18:32 Will do 20:18:33 (the websites team mailing list) 20:19:45 #action ardchoille will email the issue to the websites mailing list to seek guidance and will follow-up accordingly early next week (23/5/2010) 20:20:14 please feel free to email me at gbinns@fedoraproject.org if you have any problems getting in touch with someone for guidance 20:20:29 Noted 20:20:37 #topic Release Day Tasks 20:22:11 #info there are several things that need to be taken care of for release day 20:22:29 #action change syncStatic.sh in puppet repo and change from f13-beta to master 20:22:48 #action update spins.fp.o page to filter by f13 20:23:07 #action monitor webmaster@ email address for issues 20:24:21 #info please see the fedora websites release SOP for more details regarding release day tasks 20:24:50 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Websites_Release_SOP 20:26:07 #action sijis will post his current notes on releases from Alpha -> Beta -> GA onto the SOP 20:26:45 with that said, sijis may not be around for release day - ardchoille, will you be around? 20:27:21 I will 20:27:56 great 20:28:38 there may be a need for assistance with checking links and addressing/looking at webmaster@ email 20:28:47 stickster: are you available? 20:28:56 * stickster here 20:29:18 stickster: sweet - do you know where webmaster@ mail goes 20:29:25 gbinns: I can find out, hang on 20:29:43 stickster: thanks 20:29:49 I believe it goes to the websites@ list 20:30:03 ardchoille: gbinns: That's correct. 20:30:08 * stickster just consulted puppet store 20:30:34 ok, awesome 20:31:20 thanks guys 20:32:04 #topic Keyword Optimization 20:32:24 i sent recommendations for a few pages to the marketing list earlier this week 20:33:03 (the marketing team email list) 20:33:29 gbinns: I saw that list of recommendations. What's required to actually do the optimization? 20:33:48 if there are no objections to the keywords i will start working on drafts of the pages that would be involved 20:34:20 stickster: For each URL below, we would basically want to add the suggested keyword when/where applicable to the: 20:34:21 Title Tag 20:34:21 META Description Tag (which do not currently exist) 20:34:21 H1 Tags 20:34:21 H2 Tags 20:34:24 Anchor Text 20:34:26 ALT Tags 20:34:44 i emailed you a few minutes ago :) 20:35:09 for the record, here are the suggestions that were emailed: 20:35:23 URL: http://fedoraproject.org/ 20:35:23 Suggested Keyword: Fedora Linux 20:35:23 Targeted Term: Linux 20:35:23 Global Monthly Search Volume for Target Term: 55.6 Million 20:35:23 URL: http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora 20:35:25 Keyword: Fedora Linux Download 20:35:27 Targeted Term: Linux Download 20:35:29 Global Monthly Search Volume for Targeted Term: 1.2 Million 20:35:31 URL: http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-help 20:35:33 Keyword: Fedora Linux How To Get Help 20:35:35 Targeted Term: Linux How To 20:35:37 Global Monthly Search Volume for Targeted Term: 1 Million 20:35:59 so, for example, if we were making changes on the homepage 20:36:46 gbinns: You emailed me, or the list? 20:37:28 the h1 tag is currently

Fedora

- i would recommend changing that to 'Fedora Linux' or 'Fedora Linux Project' 20:37:40 stickster: the list 20:37:47 gbinns: Well, "Fedora Linux" is not our product name 20:38:02 That could be confusing to users. 20:38:16 stickster: ok, so do you suggest leaving as is? 20:38:27 We should be able to put that content in the page but hide it from viewers, though 20:38:42

Fedora Linux

20:38:55 stickster: that could actually penalize us with the search engines, it's called keyword jamming 20:39:05 OK, then we'd have to find some other optimizations instead. 20:39:06 or keyword stuffing 20:39:21 We shouldn't be changing page content that changes our branding. 20:39:36 stickster: ok - so with regard to fedora, we can only use the words "fedora" or "fedora project" - correct? 20:39:44 That's correct 20:39:55 ok np 20:40:16 I understand we want to get associated with Linux in SEO though, so I do enourage finding ways to do that 20:40:20 *encourage. 20:40:52 stickster: could we do something like, 'Fedora Project | Linux' 20:41:29 stickster: or some other middle character 'Fedora Project / Linux' 20:42:19 Not in the titling. 20:42:55 ok 20:43:18 is it okay to change the current title tags, though? 20:44:19 right now they are all the same Fedora Project - typically each web page should have a unique title 20:45:09 aside from a keyword optimization standpoint 20:45:30 e.g. Get Fedora 20:45:54 or Get Fedora Help 20:46:06 Can we do something like Fedora Project ${page_name} ? 20:46:31 Or Fedora Project / ${page_name} ? 20:47:04 I'm not sure if the server can handle that variable 20:48:10 stickster: what do you think? 20:48:29 Yes, that sounds perfectly do-able 20:48:54 gbinns: We'll have to wait until post-GA because changes to these text strings affect our global translators. 20:49:24 gbinns: We'd want to announce the plan, give the translators notice, make all the changes at once, and then make sure translators know the new translatables are available. 20:49:36 stickster: ok 20:50:00 stickster: so in terms of SEO, is that going to be compatible with page names? 20:50:39 Fedora Project / Get Fedora 20:50:49 Fedora Project / Get Help 20:50:51 ok 20:50:57 Is that what you mean, gbinns? 20:51:13 Those titles seem fine to me 20:51:26 no, i was more thinking along the lines of people that don't know about fedora 20:51:42 because if you put fedora in to google we already have that covered up 20:51:43 I don't know what you mean gbinns, can you clarify the question? 20:51:46 sure 20:52:16 so basically, with keyword optimization it is about trying to attract your demographic by optimizing your website with keywords that apply to them 20:52:44 we can take two routes 20:52:52 only go for people that are looking for fedora 20:53:13 or go after the linux community in general which was my thought with words and phrases like 'linux' and 'linux download' 20:54:29 stickster: so my question is, do we have any mobility to use a noun other than Fedora in a page title? 20:54:30 gbinns: If you look at, e.g. http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download -- that's the #1 hit for "download linux" on Google. But it mentions Linux 0 times. 20:55:09 sounds like a META Description Tag 20:55:17 I just looked at the source, there is no such tag. 20:55:19 stickster: yes, but they are using it in their homepage tag an are the 2nd listing on google for the term 20:55:31 Ubuntu Linux 20:55:47 http://www.ubuntu.com/ 20:56:15 gbinns: Go to that page 20:56:20 There's no Linux in the source at all 20:56:46 And it's not in Meta or in an h1 20:57:17 stickster: i see what you are saying 20:57:53 stickster: in terms of the homepage title tag 20:57:56 gbinns: So it must be possible to do that without the page title or h1 20:58:13 stickster: that will change because when google crawls a webpage it lists it in the index based on their title tag 20:58:39 So it entered into the index with that title, but now doesn't have it anymore, and the search engine continues to show it? 20:58:46 stickster: yes 20:58:49 stickster: http://espn.go.com/ 20:59:05 So does that mean that if we've already entered our page into the index, changing our title wouldn't have any effect either, would it? 20:59:18 stickster: no, google recrawls websites on a regular basis 20:59:35 gbinns: But their site has not had "Linux" in the title for a long time now. 20:59:56 Certainly I would have expected Google to crawl it in the last several months 21:00:04 esp. based on the content changes to that page, right? 21:00:39 stickster: yes, you would think so, however, the title tag is like the bookcover for whatever content resides in a page 21:01:05 stickster: it should update 21:01:28 gbinns: So would we have to retain "Linux" in the title forever? 21:01:34 How long would it have to stay up? 21:01:43 stickster: i would recommend until it got indexed 21:01:44 And what would happen when our content changes? 21:02:00 Wouldn't we have to keep changing it when our content changed, if this works as you're saying? 21:02:14 yes, it could definitely get reindexed when you change it back 21:02:17 here is another example: 21:02:21 http://www.redhat.com/ 21:02:22 redhat.com | The World's Open Source Leader 21:02:28 http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=redhat 21:02:39 gbinns: But what you're saying doesn't agree with the reality of what we're saying with that U page. 21:03:13 stickster: it does, it hasn't propogated it looks like 21:03:17 stickster: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ubuntu 21:03:27 They've obviously changed their content several times; the page title changed a long time ago; and yet the entry in google cache is current. 21:03:27 stickster: there you can see their title tag with no mention of linux 21:04:02 stickster: correct, however, as you can see, a past page title is still associated with the term linux 21:04:29 stickster: which is very valuable, considering it gets 55 million searches a month 21:04:31 gbinns: How long would that title change have to stay up to keep us associated in that list? 21:05:00 * stickster notes we're currently #9 on that list 21:05:02 stickster: i would think that fedoraproject.org gets crawled every 2 or 3 days 21:05:25 stickster: so we could make the changes and see how that changed our ranking 21:05:45 my main point i guess, is that by targeting these more popular words we are opening up our chances to grow 21:06:01 whereas linux gets 55 million searches, fedora linux gets 200k searches 21:06:15 I guess this seems more like an experiment than based on factual knowledge that a title is going to change this particular search ranking for us. 21:06:17 so basically i am working on gaming the search engine so we become the biggest distro 21:06:33 My understanding is that Google's ranking -- which really is the one that matters most -- is much smarter than that. 21:06:38 stickster: no, there is tons of research behind this 21:07:01 stickster: there is a whole science, http://www.seomoz.org/ - i specialize in doing this work professionally for a living 21:07:12 * stickster would suggest, then, that we try this post GA for a specific time period 21:07:16 Say, 30 days 21:07:37 And make sure that the translators' old translations of titles are retained in the PO files they use 21:07:42 stickster: ok np 21:07:48 When we switch back, that way, there's zero work for them. 21:08:14 stickster: i was working hard to get the preliminary work done, so when we hit GA you all had already seen the drafts and we had taken advantage of the time when we couldn't do anything anyway 21:08:42 We should use a title that doesn't change our branding though -- "Fedora Project | " 21:08:51 * stickster cool with that 21:09:02 stickster: i have a phone meeting, but i really appreciate you going over this with me - i hope i didn't interrupt what you were working on 21:09:22 stickster: np regarding the title tag 21:09:44 gbinns: Not at all, I appreciate your expertise and trying to clarify some of this for me 21:10:07 stickster: np 21:10:54 #action gbinns will continue working on the preliminary keyword optimization tasks according to the SOP and will make sure everyone is in agreement prior throughout each step of the process 21:11:30 #topic Open Floor 21:12:04 I emailed the websites@ list regarding the ticket #2049 (f13 checksums). I'll monitor and follow up on Monday. 21:12:17 * sijis_afk is lurking...ish 21:12:22 ardchoille: awesome, thanks 21:12:58 #info Sijis provided the agenda for today's meeting, despite his being on vacation - thank you Sijis!!! 21:13:10 no prob. 21:13:25 long meeting, eh? 21:13:34 Good meeting :) 21:14:42 sijis_afk: yeah, thanks again for the help 21:15:16 is there anything else anyone wants to go over? 21:16:17 nope. could you just send an email to the meetbot notes? 21:16:35 s/to/of 21:16:40 np 21:17:22 thx 21:18:10 #endmeeting