17:00:32 <inode0> #startmeeting FAmSCo Townhall (2014-02-01)
17:00:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Feb  1 17:00:32 2014 UTC.  The chair is inode0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:32 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:44 <yn1v> I am in work hours now, I need five minutes to be fully available
17:00:53 <inode0> ok
17:01:10 <inode0> #topic Organizational Details
17:01:25 <inode0> Welcome to the FAmSCo town hall
17:01:50 <inode0> Please ask questions in #fedora-townhall-public and I'll relay them to the candidates in this channel.
17:02:21 <inode0> Candidates have already answered some questions from the community and those answers are here
17:02:28 <inode0> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections/Questionnaire#Fedora_Ambassadors_Steering_Committee_.28FAmSCo.29
17:03:28 <inode0> We'll number the questions in this channel and ask the candidates to prefix their answers with the number to help others follow along.
17:04:21 <inode0> Candidates may answer when ready and discuss as much as they wish. When there is a lull I'll move on.
17:04:53 <inode0> We may have an open floor if time permits.
17:05:07 <inode0> #topic Introductions
17:05:28 <inode0> Would each candidate take a minute to introduce themselves.
17:06:15 <yn1v> .fas
17:06:16 <zodbot> yn1v: (fas <query>) -- Search the Fedora Account System usernames, full names, and email addresses for a match.
17:06:41 * yn1v Neville A. Cross  from Managua, Nicaragua
17:06:57 <yn1v> My fas is equal to my nick in IRC
17:07:15 <yn1v> I have been collaborating to fedora project since 2008
17:07:53 <yn1v> I am ambassador, have been involved in FAmSCo and Marketing before.
17:08:24 <yn1v> I am currently involved with budget as community card holder and freemedia team as well as ambassador
17:08:26 <yn1v> eof
17:09:19 * inode0 waits a minute for mribeirodantas
17:10:04 <mribeirodantas> I've been a free software advocate for almost a decade now, contributing with code, localization (translation), and marketing apart from being regularly invited as a speaker to several national and international events since 2006. I started contributing to Fedora at the beginning of 2013 as an ambassador, but rapidly my contributions evolved to the l10n (translation) team, freemedia and marketing though most of my contributions are as am
17:11:09 <mribeirodantas> In my daily life, apart from FOSS and Fedora, I'm a computer engineering student and a biomedical engineering research (reason for why I tried to collaborate with SIGs in Fedora, like Fedora Join SIG (Extremelly important SIG), Medical SIG among others.
17:11:46 <mribeirodantas> Though it's not common to have meetings among ambassadors in Brazil, I managed to make it happen once last year in order to make sure people are connected and aware of everything that's been going on.
17:11:50 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:11:54 <mribeirodantas> .fas mribeirodantas
17:11:54 <zodbot> mribeirodantas: mribeirodantas 'Marcel Ribeiro Dantas' <ribeirodantasdm@gmail.com>
17:12:10 <inode0> thanks for the introductions, now some questions
17:12:45 <mribeirodantas> ambassador and translator. I have  organized several events and lots of fedora events since my entering in Fedora like 4 F19 release paties, most of them in big  FOSS events.
17:12:49 <mribeirodantas> It seems it got cut off
17:12:52 <inode0> #topic Q1 robyduck: One of you recently spoke about the autonomy of the single Regions and his concern about FAmSCo. How can FAmSCo be useful for the single Regions and how should collaboration be in your eyes?
17:15:08 <yn1v> This is a trade off. Autonomy for regions is good because it allows to take desicions based on local perespective. FAmSCo is serving as a brigde to channalize the overal budget information and expenses. Taking control of amounts that are higher.
17:15:50 <yn1v> I think that the balance recently achieved is working well, we should focus in measuring results.
17:16:15 <yn1v> eof
17:16:17 <mribeirodantas> It's funny to see this question, because it's a nice coincidence. I was tinkering with the wiki now and found a very interesting page[0]. It seems in the past FAmSCo would hold monthly meetings "to ensure Ambassadors around the world have the opportunity to speak to FAmSCo about specific topics that may not happen in the regional meetings." Usually, situations like that are not that common, reason for why I think monthly meetings with FA
17:17:49 <mribeirodantas> I think that is a nice way of making sure FAmSCo and the community is working together, not only among top contributors that are already friends and stuff. Apart from that, I think similar to what yn1v stated. Right now, I think we've managed to achieve such a nice level of equillibrium when it comes to autonomy. Some values are agreed to be decided in the region itself, while higher amounts need FAmSCo discussion and approval.
17:18:11 <mribeirodantas> inode0:  FAmSCo are a very nice idea that we should put to work
17:18:11 <mribeirodantas> again.   0 - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_townhall?rd=FAmSCo_TownHall_agenda
17:18:38 <mribeirodantas> In case the last paragraph got truncated again, I will paste below half of it:
17:18:45 <mribeirodantas> Right now, I think we've managed to  achieve such a nice level of equillibrium when it comes to autonomy. Some values are agreed to be decided in the region  itself, while higher amounts need FAmSCo discussion and approval.
17:20:13 <yn1v> I have to agree with mribeirodantas that famsco is a foru for concerns beyond the region and that is great
17:20:18 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:20:54 <yn1v> But it need to improve feed back to amabassadors on those issues consulted to them
17:21:30 <mribeirodantas> +1. By the way, things happen in a VERY democratic way in LATAM. I'm not sure if it works the same way outside LATAM. I'm happy for that
17:21:42 <mribeirodantas> [for being so democratic in LATAM]
17:21:46 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:22:03 <inode0> #topic Q2 nirik: are you happy with the process of adding new ambassadors? what would you change if you could do any change to the process?
17:24:21 <yn1v> The proccess has changed a lot in the last year, I think it is need to see if it needs further improved before changing more the proccess. I think it has been removed a lot of bottle neck, that's is a great improvement. I think that always is possible to improve, but we have to wait what are the new constrains.
17:24:34 <yn1v> eof
17:24:38 <mribeirodantas> That's something that makes me sad. Not only "not happy". It makes me sad, for real. Though there are very welcoming contributors in the community who teach all they can to new contributors and make them feel comfortable, such users are not usually mentors. And some mentors are some times the opposite of it, and the bad thing about it is that there is nothing really anyone can do. I think something very important would be to make it clea
17:24:56 <mribeirodantas> I think I got trucated again. Where did it get cut off inode0?
17:25:23 <mribeirodantas> it clear how one can become a mentor, and make sure  mentors are welcoming people that won't only reply e-mails. They will talk to the new contributor and teach them about fedora  or AT LEAST forward them to someone who can teach them. Being a mentor is about mentoring someone. It's not about 'doing  bureaucracy to turn someone into an ambassador'
17:26:50 <mribeirodantas> As a consequence of that, we have contributors who just got in and are about to leave, cause they don't understand how things work OR don't feel like they're part of something. And for the ones who remain in, sometimes share different values or disseminate false statements about Fedora. There is a known case of someone who would talk about Fedora through a VM in his Mac OS X and would make it clear he does not endorse software freedom. A
17:27:35 <yn1v> I agree with mribeirodantas, the process has improved, but that does not mean that the performance for mentor have changed. I did became inactive as I did not have the time to provide proper follow up to new candidates
17:27:47 <mribeirodantas> yn1v: +1000
17:27:56 <mribeirodantas> I'm really a big fan of people who say: I can't do this anymore, I want to become inactive.
17:28:20 <mribeirodantas> There are cases where they person just can't follow with his duties, but keep in because of the title. Can't make it anymore? Be honest and make it clear.
17:28:29 <mribeirodantas> s/they/the
17:28:30 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:29:43 <inode0> #topic Q3 nonamedotc: What level of importance would you attach to the campus ambassadors program? For example, do you think organizing events like install fests across college campuses, under the ambit of ambassadors, be useful to spread word about Fedora?
17:29:45 <yn1v> I have nothing else on this.
17:31:15 <mribeirodantas> That's an excellent program. Let me explain why. Most of the time (when it comes to regular users), if you ask them why they use Z Operating System they will tell you: I was firstly introduced to it, so I sticked to it. Though the fact we have operating systems that are better than other, they all work at some point. And for regular users, that's all they need.
17:31:59 <mribeirodantas> If you talk about Fedora in a big FOSS event where most poeple run GNU/Linux distros, you may convince one or another. But that's it. If you go to universities where people are still deciding WHAT OS they should run, you have a very nice place to evangelize people and introduce them to Fedora
17:32:38 <mribeirodantas> Last year, I did 2 release parties in universities, plus talks about Fedora in other two universities. Apart from that, I'm constantly speaking at FOSS events at universities and I make sure to address young people who are still wondering about
17:32:42 <mribeirodantas> what OS they should go
17:33:30 <mribeirodantas> sorry, I had talks in 4 universities. I forgot the ones outside my region
17:33:36 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:33:46 <yn1v> Some time ago campus ambassadors didn't make much sense to me, as they should be ambassadors who happen to be in a campus. There is a new approach to recruit teachers that can mentor students, or at least be a point of contact. That will be great, but I am not sure how many teachers we can recruit. In any case they should be supported when they came up with campus activities.
17:34:54 <yn1v> support can be extended to help them with technical details on how to perform
17:35:02 <yn1v> multiple install at a computer lab.
17:35:05 <yn1v> eof
17:35:34 <inode0> #topic Q4 inode0: How are ambassadors as a group preparing for or participating in the development of Fedora.next?
17:38:27 <yn1v> I will go first
17:38:39 <yn1v> I think that fedora.Next is not well know. It hasn't yet hitt fully in Ambassadors mailing list. So there is no involvement yet. I think that it is still a fresh idea, there is a lot of debate. Ambassador have been on the side of this debate, wich is sad. I did like a recent post from Adams William that makes things more clear. We need to people involved on Fedora.Next to comment about that with other teams.
17:38:53 <yn1v> #link http://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01/31/good-morning-bugfixing-and-thinking-about-fedora-next/
17:39:28 <yn1v> Even that fedora.next is not finished as a concept, it will be helpfull to know how it is evolving.
17:40:05 <yn1v> A lot of people it is exiting doing things, but they haven't commented much beyond their work group
17:40:08 <yn1v> eof
17:41:30 <mribeirodantas> yn1v explained it very clearly. There is no involvement (or very little) and most people are not well aware of what Fedora.next means. That's dangerous, because outside the scope of the project most people get to know things about Fedora through ambassadors, so we should make sure every ambassador knows at least what it is about.
17:42:32 <mribeirodantas> Probably, along this year when things regarding Fedora.next gets more solid, we will have more people writing about it (on Fedora Planet and Fedora Magazine, for example) and this way we could make sure the word about it is spreading well enough, so that we can really prepare for when it comes.
17:42:54 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:43:16 <inode0> #topic Q5 mayorga: What is more important to you: adding new contributors or invest on the active ones?
17:47:06 <yn1v> That's a tricky question. We have to do both. I think we need to incentive new and fresh contributors due the burn out rate. A older contributor may be near burn out, but a tap on the shoulder may help him keep going. It is difficult to find a proper balance.
17:47:11 <yn1v> eof
17:48:47 <mribeirodantas> According to FAS there are almost 700 approved members. I don't think we have many (if any) other FAS groups with this amount of people so if I have to provide two scores on the "battle" "get more" versus "improve the ones we have", I'd go 5/8
17:49:41 <mribeirodantas> Of course we should never stop getting more contributors, but we have a good amount. The key here is to invest on the active ones. If you read my answers to the questionnaire in the wiki, most of my answers had something to do with that. Connect people, make them feel more comfortable contributing, make them feel important, making sure poeple are not being left behind, helping poeple to help.
17:50:21 <mribeirodantas> I like to change my slides every once in a while but if there is something (apart from things like the foundations and so on) I *never* let out my slides is HOW you can help. People must be aware of the zillions of ways they can help in Fedora
17:50:34 <yn1v> I like the idea of "helping people to help"
17:50:44 <mribeirodantas> Localization, Freemedia, development, packaging, marketing, ambassador, documentation, blogging, whatever
17:51:13 <mribeirodantas> If you can't help Fedora, it's Fedora fault. Someoen is not making it clear to you there is a way for you to help, because it's just impossible you don't have enough skills for at least ONE of the ways one can help fedora.
17:51:54 <mribeirodantas> You don't have time? Ok. Got it. But if your answer is "I'm not good enough" or "There is nothing on what I can help", it's my fault as an ambassador not making it clear that you actually can.
17:51:58 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:52:15 <yn1v> I want to add
17:52:52 <yn1v> jsmith started an idea of creating ramps, that should be sustained
17:52:55 <yn1v> eof
17:53:05 <inode0> #topic Q6 robyduck: Do you believe being a contributor to another group should be a pre-requisite to become ambassador?
17:54:21 <mribeirodantas> No, definetely NOT. There is one very valuable thing that we should never stop giving value to it; willingness to help. Adding a pre-requisite may only create another barrier for people who for real wnat to help.
17:55:13 <mribeirodantas> But getting involved in other teams should be extremelly suggested to ambassadors. When I got in Fedora Project as a contributor, it was through the ambassador program. Quickly, I saw I could help in Localization and later I ended up getting in Marketing, Freemedia and other groups. That's a nice path in my opinion
17:55:40 <mribeirodantas> The more we get involved, the more we can learn about Fedora. And the ambassador should be someone who REALLY knows about Fedora, after all he's t he one taking the mic to speak about Fedora and get more contributors.
17:56:02 <mribeirodantas> I don't think making it more difficult to become an ambassador is the key. The key is investing in the contributor.
17:56:07 <mribeirodantas> eof
17:56:43 <yn1v> No. If that will be a requisite I wouldn't be here in the first place. Establishing that as a pre-requisite will inflate other teams like freemedia, and that does not insure people will help the other team. Some contributors are people persons, that collaborate organizing events, giving talks and so on. Imposing them a barrier does not make sense.
17:57:21 <yn1v> An ambassador is a person to point people in the right direction within the project.
17:57:52 <yn1v> Of course it will help been part of other teams, so that will be preferred.
17:58:24 <yn1v> But, lets faced. Any one contributing to fedora that ask for been ambassador is almost sure that will be aproved right away.
17:59:29 <mribeirodantas> And unfortunately, approved without knowing not even what the 4 F means :-(
18:00:12 <yn1v> there are regions where you can have the luxury to make a filter. But countries with no presence, we may look for FOSS back ground to insure a point of contact as a starting point.
18:01:11 <yn1v> mribeirodantas, it may happen that some one is contributing and not know the foundations, I have to grant that.
18:01:17 <yn1v> eof
18:01:19 <inode0> #topic Final thoughts
18:01:34 <mribeirodantas> yn1v: depending on the contribution, it "may" be ok
18:01:40 <mribeirodantas> imho
18:01:51 <inode0> We are out of time but I'd like to quickly thank the community for some excellent questions and the candidates for a thoughtful discussion.
18:02:11 <yn1v> I think that developing countries need to mature their community to be up to the level to participate in events like FLOCK
18:02:17 <inode0> If the candidates would like to make any concluding remarks now is the time.
18:02:29 <mribeirodantas> I'd like to thank everybody who showed up. It's important to assume responsabilities with the project, but it's very nice to see there are poeple willing to participate in the townhall and make sure we're well qualified.
18:02:46 <yn1v> So FUDCons should be rethink in order to provide that ramp.
18:03:06 <mribeirodantas> Getting a seat in FAmSCo or not, I will still be a contributor. But a happier one now that I see there are people really worried about Fedora :-)
18:03:10 <mribeirodantas> yn1v +1
18:03:52 <yn1v> I also want to thanks those that have attended. I am sad because i have seen a decline in participation regarding electing committees
18:04:47 <yn1v> nothing else from me at the moment.
18:04:54 <mribeirodantas> Yeah, that is true. However, it's a Saturday even at lunch time in some countries, and we still had excellent questions
18:04:58 <mribeirodantas> me neither. eof :-)
18:05:02 <inode0> ok, thanks again to all and we'll close the town hall now
18:05:06 <inode0> #endmeeting