20:00:20 <nirik> #startmeeting Fedora Board Town Hall
20:00:20 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 30 20:00:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:20 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:29 <nirik> #topic Introduction
20:00:47 <nirik> Welcome everyone. Please ask questions in #fedora-townhall-public and I will queue them up here for asking.
20:01:02 <nirik> See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Elections/Nominations for more info about our nominees.
20:01:28 <nirik> If the nominees would like to do a quick one or two line intro we can go ahead and dive into questions.
20:01:56 <EvilBob> I'm Robert 'Bob' Jensen, for more information you can see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board_nominations#Robert_.27Bob.27_Jensen_.28EvilBob.29
20:02:28 <Sparks> Hi, I'm Eric...  Contributor since 2007 and happy to be here.
20:02:56 <EvilBob> Sparks noted he has to part at 20:45, lets try to respect that even if we have to cut things short.
20:03:08 * nirik nods. nb: a short intro?
20:03:23 <Sparks> Sorry about that.  $dayjob has me working overtime today.  :/
20:03:59 <EvilBob> Sparks: It's all good and I understand
20:05:04 <nirik> Q1: From sgallagh:"What do you think is the purpose of the release name, and should the naming selection be made more restrictive to better reflect the goals of a Fedora release?"
20:05:12 * nb is here
20:05:18 * pbrobinson is here, sorry I'm late
20:05:31 <nirik> welcome pbrobinson. If you could give a short intro and then there's been one question that I will repeat...
20:05:34 <nirik> Q1: From sgallagh:"What do you think is the purpose of the release name, and should the naming selection be made more restrictive to better reflect the goals of a Fedora release?"
20:05:48 * nb is Nick, Fedora contributor for several years.  I'm part of the Infrastructure team as well as docs and packaging
20:06:21 <pbrobinson> I'm Peter Robinson. I've been involved in the Fedora project for a number of years and involved in packaging, Fedora Mobility including MeeGo when it was about, Sugar and OLPC, and currently and a lot more actively Fedora ARM. I'm currently based in London UK, but originally from Australia. EOF
20:07:39 <Sparks> nirik: Are you giving us speaking order like jsmith did yesterday?
20:08:08 <nirik> Just answer as you can? or do you prefer an order?
20:08:25 <nb> Q1: I think that the release names are a way of having fun, and I really think that for the most part, the board should allow the community to make what names they want, as long as there are no legal issues or things like that.  I do personally prefer names like we had prior to Beefy Miracle and Spherical Cow, but that is my personal preference.
20:08:25 <nirik> order made the fesco meeting slow, but there's fewer folks here.
20:08:31 <EvilBob> Order worked good for me, allowed more complete thoughts
20:08:35 <Sparks> Might be better with an order only because yesterday some of the answers went on for several lines.
20:08:46 <EvilBob> Sparks: +1
20:08:52 * nb is indifferent
20:08:55 <nirik> ok, lets let nb finish... everyone: put eof after you are done.
20:09:28 <nb> eof
20:09:34 <nirik> next: Sparks
20:09:38 <Sparks> Release names are more traditional than something that is required.  It is meant to be something fun, in my opinion, and really doesn't have a purpose beyond that.  Would releases fall apart without a name?  Probably not.  Do some people get enjoyment from naming a release?  I would say some do.  I can't, at the moment, find the number of people that voted for a particular release name last time around but if memory serves me correct it
20:09:38 <Sparks> was more than ten.  I don't see it as something detrimental so I'm not against naming our releases.  If it keeps people laughing and happy then I'm all for it.  EOF
20:09:42 <nirik> next EvilBob
20:09:44 <EvilBob> I don't think the release name serves any purpose other than tradition. The current rules mean nothing as made clear by the naming of F17 so change has to be made, what that will be is yet to be seen, I hope to be an active part of that process on the board or not.
20:09:46 <EvilBob> EOF
20:09:50 <nirik> next pbrobinson
20:11:57 <pbrobinson> I like the history behind the release names and the theory behind it. While the current one wasn't great due to people's beliefs there's also large enough communities to vote against them if they care that much. Ultimately alot of people don't even use the release names and just say "Fedora 17" or even F-17 so I'm not sure it's such a major problem
20:12:41 <pbrobinson> EIF
20:12:43 <pbrobinson> EOF
20:12:44 <nirik> Q2: From Rastlinux "What is you favorite feature or thing about F17? ( kind of a personality question )"
20:12:50 <nirik> first Sparks
20:14:39 <Sparks> I have had my head stuck inside a git repository for so long I haven't even SEEN F17 yet!  It's quite unusual for me to not have upgraded one or two of my systems to Beta but I just haven't had time to look around this release cycle.  Perhaps the most exciting part of it is that it came after F16 which means we still have momentum moving forward!  :)  EOF
20:14:44 <nirik> next nb
20:16:54 <nb> I think it's kind of hard to pick one thing to be my favorite about F17.  It's awesome like Fedora usually is!  I really like the artwork this time.
20:17:29 <nb> It seems like my wireless works better with F17 then F16 on my netbook :)
20:17:30 <nb> EOF
20:17:40 <nirik> next EvilBob
20:17:43 <EvilBob> I can not comment on what is my favorite part of F17 as I have not run it yet. My favorite part about Fedora is letting things break and get fixed as long as it is not detrimental to the end user experience for long periods of time. I hate hearing in #fedora that "Fedora Sucks because XYZ is broken, I'm going to Ubuntu" but at the same time if we are to be "First" it is to be expected, if you are not going to be part of fixing it by at least
20:17:43 <EvilBob> filing a bug... "That freedom is one of our Foundations" is my response.
20:17:46 <EvilBob> EOF
20:17:49 <nirik> next pbrobinson
20:18:06 <pbrobinson> massively improved ARM support from a secondary arch perspective (and the fact I've put 100s of hours into it) of course! But also the new gnome release, the systemd improvements , the masses amount of cloud features are all stuff I'ved used
20:19:03 <nirik> Q3: From Rastlinux "Q: Last time the thought came up regarding some incentive or recognition for efforts. Several candidates likes this thought. Now that some time has passed, has anyone more thoughts along this line of thinking? How would you accomplish (I don't remember the question before only the concept... if the intent of this question has any value someone help me word it better)?"
20:19:10 <nirik> first EvilBob
20:19:22 <pbrobinson> there's lots of other stuff I'm excited about and I'll use and play with more as I get the time but I've been using it for quite some time and switched my primary laptop around beta and it's generally been over all a good move forward and lots of nice improvements. EOF
20:20:13 <EvilBob> I was a "Fedora Award Winner" that whole idea fell apart because it was done behind closed doors. I am proud of the "award" that I never actually got but I have been rewarded in other ways, going to FUDCons and T-Shirts things like that. I even got a titanium spork from a user in #fedora with a simple note "Thank you, A #fedora user"
20:20:15 <EvilBob> EOF
20:20:19 <nirik> next nb
20:21:38 <nb> I like the idea of awards.  I haven't really thought much about what to do for awards, but I think recognition makes people feel important and more motivated, even if it is something little
20:22:07 <nb> I like what inode0 did, he had some Fedora poker chips made (he did it himself), that he gives out to some poeple he wants to thank)
20:22:10 <nb> eof
20:22:13 <nirik> next pbrobinson
20:23:35 <pbrobinson> Sparks bought up the idea of recognition for contributors going above and beyond at last night's town hall, I'd never heard of it prior to then and I think it's a great idea but not had time in the last day to think much more about it
20:24:36 <pbrobinson> eof
20:24:40 <nirik> next Sparks
20:24:49 <EvilBob> I don't know where we need a "staffed position." If an area is in need I would assume someone would have made it known to Red Hat. QA always needs more resources, I would think that RE does also. Release Engineering...
20:24:51 <EvilBob> oops
20:25:02 <Sparks> I may have a slightly better answer than others ONLY because it's something I've been thinking about for a while and have talked to a few people about it before so I've had a chance to develop the thought a bit.
20:25:04 <EvilBob> Sorry for the misfire
20:25:10 <Sparks> I'd like to see some sort of recognition system put in place.  I'm still working on exactly how one does that.  Rewarding some might lead to overlooking others, which is problematic.  I think something along the lines of a "command coin" (sorry, from my Navy days) or something rare and shiny would be good to present to someone.  A coupon for ice cream would also be good (for me).  I'd hate to make the system to rigid, however, that we'd
20:25:10 <Sparks> have to somehow quantify someone's contribution to determine if it meets a minimum requirement.  Flexibility is key.  EOF
20:25:16 <nirik> Q4 from dgilmore: If there was one position you could make in Fedora what would it be?
20:25:31 <nirik> first pbrobinson
20:27:46 <pbrobinson> someone that could for see the future?
20:27:53 <pbrobinson> sorry
20:28:01 <EvilBob> pbrobinson: +1
20:29:09 <pbrobinson> it's a hard one. Is it a paid position or something else? I don't think that's an easy answer and certainly one that I can answer off the cuff without thought. There's certainly people I'd like to clone like some of infra, the Fedora Program Manager, the Fedora kernel guys
20:30:20 <pbrobinson> but a new position is a hard one. From "paying someone" style of position I think if it's justified it wouldn't hard. From a non paid point of view if there's a need I'm sure someone would step up
20:30:44 <pbrobinson> but a specific position off the cuff eludes me. EOF
20:31:06 <nirik> next EvilBob
20:31:25 <EvilBob> I don't know where we need a "staffed position." If an area is in need I would assume someone would have made it known to Red Hat. QA always needs more resources, I would think that RE (Release Engineering) does also INfrastucture seems to have quite a few paid people already more like them in many areas would be awesome.
20:31:26 <EvilBob> I know the current board has been discussing a SPOF, I think that anywhere that a single point can be avoided is a plus for the project. It ties in to my contributor retention idea, contributors get burned out when they have to carry a ball alone. When staff members get relocated the impact on them is enormous.
20:31:28 <EvilBob> EOF
20:31:31 <nirik> next Sparks
20:31:51 <Sparks> I'd personally like to pay everyone that does work for Fedora!  Doing so would, hopefully, give people more time to work on Fedora (perhaps as a full time job?) and perhaps the end product would be better.  Perhaps one place, in particular, where having someone's undivided attention would be good is in the Infrastructure Lead and others in Infrastructure.  They have to deal with real, tangible items that, if they fail, we are all pretty
20:31:51 <Sparks> much at a full stop.  But that's just a first thought.  EOF
20:31:56 <nirik> next nb
20:32:59 <nb> Like many people have said already, it is hard to pick one area.  I ahve noticed that it seems like docs might could use help.  I don't know that there are any specifically Fedora full-time paid docs people
20:33:04 <nb> (I could be wrong)
20:33:11 <nb> i think the redhat people do other redhat stuff too
20:33:22 <nb> But I think a lot of areas could use help EOF
20:33:31 <pbrobinson> +1 on docs even though the docs team does some awesome stuff already!
20:33:47 <nirik> Q5: Question from Rastlinux: As a board member, what goal or issue will you champion during your tenure? In other words once you are done what do you want to be known for having accomplished.
20:33:58 <nirik> first up Sparks
20:34:54 <Sparks> I would attempt to create more transparency within the Board and all governing bodies.  Specifically for the Board, while making all IRC transcripts and even recordings of the phone meetings available would great they would be seldom used.  Providing that evidence in addition to summaries would be better.  And don't just put them on the wiki, lets setup a non-wiki webpage where this information can be linked to and make it easy to find.
20:34:54 <Sparks> And lets make sure that the processes are well documented and those processes are easily available so people know what our duties are.  EOF
20:35:14 <nirik> next pbrobinson
20:36:04 <pbrobinson> ARM promotion to primary arch and all the stuff it involves
20:36:32 <nirik> next nb
20:36:37 <nirik> oops. /me waits
20:36:45 <EvilBob> ;)
20:37:53 <pbrobinson> eof
20:37:55 <pbrobinson> sorry!
20:37:55 <nb> I think we need better budget management.  Right now, as one of the FAmNA people, I have no clue really how much money we have available to spend.  Actually I don't think we've been told yet how much CommArch has to spend at all, much less the Regional Support line.
20:38:11 <nb> That might be a good candidate for the previous question too, a spevack replacement
20:38:13 <nb> EOF
20:38:14 <nirik> next EvilBob
20:38:17 <EvilBob> Increased two way communication and keeping the community informed of what is going on at the board level even if it is a generic overview. It falls down to transparency and knowing how the community that elects us to the board feels. How I feel about a subject is not important, it is what the community thinks that will matter to me the most. Posting things on the wiki and on mailing lists as I mentioned yesterday, I think it was in the post
20:38:17 <EvilBob> meeting discussion, is NOT enough.
20:38:43 <EvilBob> EOF
20:38:48 <nirik> Q6: From rbergero: "How do you take your beefy miracle?"
20:39:31 <EvilBob> Me?
20:39:31 <nb> with cheese and ketchup. and sometimes chili sauce
20:39:33 <nb> lol
20:39:36 <EvilBob> On the toilet with some Charmin.
20:39:42 <nb> lol
20:39:43 <Sparks> On a quad-core x86_64 processor with a solid state hard drive.  EOF
20:39:48 * nb thought we were referring to hotdogs :)
20:39:56 <nb> EvilBob, lol
20:39:59 <Sparks> nb: Maybe we are.
20:40:01 * nirik forgot to do order there. pbrobinson ?
20:40:48 <pbrobinson> sour krout (sp?), mustard (indicating progress of course), onions and ketchup :)
20:40:54 <nirik> ok, since Sparks has a hard stop in 5min, perhaps the candidates could do a short round up of their thoughts...
20:40:57 <nirik> nb first
20:41:32 * nb looks forward to serving on the Fedora Board (if i get elected), and helping Fedora continue with its current awesomeness, and helping it to become even better. EOF
20:41:44 <nirik> next EvilBob
20:41:50 <EvilBob> Closing argument, Vote for who is going to do the best job for Fedora™ in the long run. Things have been the same for so long it's hard to be enthused about the project at times. Every once in a while there is a glimmer of hope however.
20:42:11 <EvilBob> I hope that you can see that hope in me.
20:42:13 <EvilBob> EOF
20:42:18 <nirik> next Sparks
20:43:20 <Sparks> Since being nominated for a position on the Board I've thought of how I can be a good Fedorian and keep this project being great.  I have some ideas but I don't know or understand everything so I'll be listening to make sure voices are being heard.  I will strive to do my best!  EOF
20:43:41 <nirik> next pbrobinson
20:45:58 <pbrobinson> I look forward to continuing my active and positive involvement in Fedora. I think the Fedora community is amazing and I love most of the positivity of the community and it amazes me everyday with some of the enthusiasm so I want people to look to those sorts of people, people that others would aspire to. I hope people think that of me and my contributions
20:47:54 <nirik> Thanks everyone for coming. Do get out and vote!
20:47:59 <EvilBob> Thanks to everyone for making it today
20:48:07 <nirik> #endmeeting