16:47:58 <susmit> #startmeeting
16:47:58 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 16 16:47:58 2010 UTC.  The chair is susmit. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:47:58 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:48:00 <lcafiero> Oh thank God
16:48:10 <susmit> now we are good :)
16:48:36 <zoltanh7211> phew :)
16:49:09 <susmit> pcalarco> what do each of our candidates think the biggest challenges are in growing the Ambassador program, and how would you tackle these?
16:49:41 <lcafiero> !
16:49:48 <susmit> lcafiero,
16:49:51 <lcafiero> Thank you.
16:50:06 <yn1v> !
16:50:10 <susmit> #chair spevack
16:50:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: spevack susmit
16:50:10 <zoltanh7211> !
16:50:34 <susmit> you can speak in order you raised your hand
16:50:45 <lcafiero> I'll make this short: The biggest challenge in growing the ambassador program is the growth itself. We are showing a great deal of it and handling properly is a key to our success
16:50:46 <lcafiero> eof
16:51:08 * yn1v = Neville A. Cross - Nicaragua
16:51:17 <yn1v> The bigest challenge is a organizational one. As we grow in number it is difficult to keep communication, clear message, and coherent group without somebody stepping on some body elses toes.
16:51:28 <yn1v> We need to start having some flexibles guidelines, and involve everyone in creating those.
16:51:32 <yn1v> eof
16:52:05 <zoltanh7211> I think the biggest challenge is keep the unity, and prevent the burnout, and provide improvements possibility. That needs proper leading, and information sources.
16:52:06 <gomix> !
16:52:07 <zoltanh7211> eof
16:53:43 * yn1v thinks zoltanh7211 is right about preventing the burnout.
16:53:48 <igorps> !
16:54:17 <lcafiero> I think gomix is next?
16:54:27 * gomix think so...
16:55:15 <gomix> my believe is too organization of a growing comm is the biggest challeng, regional commites could be a way to delegate and improve all the internal proceses
16:55:33 <gomix> eof
16:56:10 <susmit> My question is:  what is the first thing you are going to change if you are elected?
16:56:25 <susmit> please take turn..you don't have to raise your hand
16:56:38 <lcafiero> Point of order
16:56:50 <lcafiero> I don't believe igorps answered the last question.
16:56:57 <igorps> yes
16:57:02 <igorps> The biggest challenge is grow with quality. I mean, to keep our ambassadors active in interested in Fedora.
16:57:11 <igorps> Some people just come and gone too quickly or some stay for a long time without collaborating with the group. We need to help point out out these new ambassadors in the right direction
16:57:45 <igorps> this is the main issue we need to tackle IMHO
16:57:51 <igorps> eof
16:58:43 <asalles> !
16:59:20 <igorps> you can go asalles
16:59:29 <asalles> I think the main thing is to assemble a large group of new developers with people drawn from universities. This could put together a plan of work to development courses at universities in order to find potential participants.
16:59:41 <asalles> eof
17:01:05 <lcafiero> Susmit's question then is next?
17:01:10 <susmit> red_alert, ?
17:01:29 <susmit> you want to go for the first question?
17:01:50 <susmit> #chair bckurera
17:01:50 <zodbot> Current chairs: bckurera spevack susmit
17:02:13 <bckurera> Hello sorry for the delay
17:02:24 <bckurera> i got stucked with my internet connection
17:02:28 <bckurera> Ok i m ready
17:02:38 <susmit> bckurera, not here..speak in townhall-public
17:03:46 <susmit> ok...next question: what is the first thing you are going to change if you are elected?
17:04:07 <yn1v> !
17:04:09 <asalles> same question?
17:04:48 <susmit> it has not been answered..yn1v
17:05:01 <lcafiero> !
17:05:03 <yn1v> Ask the board to include a fith fundation: FUN. Second, to look how we can improve the process to provide resources to ambassadors in remote areas to help them accomplish their role.
17:05:06 <yn1v> eof
17:05:10 <susmit> lcafiero,
17:06:20 <lcafiero> Not much, and probably nothing. There are probably some fine tuning that needs to be done to adapt to unforeseen changes, but there is not much we need to change
17:07:17 <igorps> !
17:07:18 <lcafiero> Bear in mind that of all major distros, the Fedora Project's Ambassador program has the best system backed by the best people; so much so that other distros, like OpenSUSE, have copied our system to make their own Ambassador program.
17:07:20 <lcafiero> eof.
17:07:55 <susmit> igorps,
17:07:58 <igorps> I'd like to keep the Ambassadors group working more closely with other projects like packaging and development. Sometimes those Fedora sub-projects seems to work in a distant manner
17:08:02 <gomix> !
17:08:05 <susmit> gomix,
17:08:08 <igorps> we can do that by talking with other committees as well as with the board and also keeping an eye on others teams schedules.
17:08:35 <igorps> I see this as way of keeping everyone interested in our core values
17:08:36 <igorps> eof
17:09:15 <susmit> gomix,
17:09:24 <gomix> as fedora ambassadors, we should keep closer to others groups in Fedora, like packagers and developers
17:09:34 <gomix> and provide them a service and resources
17:09:57 <gomix> eof
17:10:30 <asalles> !
17:10:36 <susmit> asalles,
17:11:11 <asalles> In South America there are many people who can participate in the project but there is no technical leadership to write a review. I would create a group of people specially trained to represent the fedora project existing in the different events related to free software. It will be like a "tech-team" that would have the task of giving a deeper insight into the technical characteristics of the distrubution. There is in Red Hat but no
17:11:11 <asalles> t see it in Fedora completely.
17:11:33 <asalles> eof
17:11:54 <susmit> next question: MarkDude: Should we be willing to expand our idea of contributors to *testers* and get more contributors that way? (let's talk about ambassadors here)
17:12:15 <lcafiero> !
17:12:18 <susmit> lcafiero,
17:12:22 <yn1v> !
17:12:28 <susmit> then yn1v
17:12:49 <gomix> !
17:13:02 <susmit> then gomix
17:13:06 <zoltanh7211> When I will be elected, I would like to stabilize the view of our ambassadors, and our presence - we have to show that every piece of our community and knowledge could build new ways, and everyone could do that. We have 2 most important source: the contributor and the information, and both of them could be a huge loss if we doesn't care. I would like to care them, and attend if needed.
17:13:11 <zoltanh7211> !
17:13:12 <lcafiero> If we are substituting "ambassadors" for the word "contributors" in the question, I would have to have to answer the question with a question.
17:13:16 <lcafiero> What does "expand" mean?
17:13:49 <susmit> lcafiero, getting into other teams as well
17:14:09 <lcafiero> I was asking that question rhetorically, susmit
17:14:14 <lcafiero> So if I can finish
17:16:46 <lcafiero> I believe that already we have many ambassadors who work in other areas of Fedora, and further many contributors already use Ambassadors as a stepping stone for going into other development-related areas of Fedora.
17:16:54 <lcafiero> eof
17:17:25 <susmit> yn1v,
17:17:28 <yn1v> I think it is important to expand our user base to include more testers. We need to atract people that is willingly to try a tool and give us usable feedback. We don't need people saying "this sucks". We need people expressing why they feel this or that tool sucks. I have discovered that challenging students to come to a computer lab to run a test day is a appealing idea. Saddly I haven't been able to implement the idea yet. As ambassador
17:17:28 <yn1v> we can facilitate this kind of activities.
17:17:36 <yn1v> eof
17:17:43 <susmit> gomix,
17:17:47 <gomix> thanks susmit..
17:17:56 <gomix> plain simple yes...
17:18:00 <igorps> !
17:18:04 <susmit> igorps,
17:18:08 <gomix> testers are just one of those groups
17:18:12 <gomix> we need to support...
17:18:13 <gomix> eof
17:18:17 <zoltanh7211> !
17:18:24 <igorps> Any additional contributions as testing are highly appreciated.
17:18:34 <igorps> I do think that ambassadors are welcome in other teams as long as they want to.
17:18:44 <igorps> For instance in LATAM we lack testers. If an ambassador come to help with marketing and is also wiling to have a more technical activity we should be able to correctly guide the person.
17:19:09 <igorps> And this is something we need to pursue in our events
17:19:11 <igorps> eof
17:19:16 <gomix> !
17:19:21 <susmit> zoltanh7211,
17:19:24 <susmit> then gomix
17:19:24 <zoltanh7211> If you mean testers - as QA team expansion - I say yes, but not only just for single groups - QA must cover a lot of parts
17:19:45 <zoltanh7211> eof
17:19:57 <gomix> I would like to reinforce that we must recruit more staff in other areas
17:20:16 <gomix> more than new ambassadors
17:20:32 <gomix> latam is one those examples, we many ambassadors, but we dont have testers...
17:20:34 <gomix> +1 igorps
17:20:35 <gomix> eof
17:20:42 <asalles> !
17:20:50 <susmit> asalles,
17:20:55 <asalles> I think before Ambassador should have an intermediate level. To reach ambassador must go through a list of tasks to define, as the candidate's profile. In this way we could have partners in different areas, developing, testing and qa. We could even have a requirement to be ambassador to the contact new testers and hopefully new developers.
17:22:42 <susmit> looks like we have no more question, but I have one
17:23:37 <susmit> We have seen a drop in FAmSCo activity after first few months...what will you do, as a team, not to repeat that?
17:24:07 * lcafiero will let someone else go first this time
17:24:17 <lcafiero> ! <--- second, though :-)
17:25:02 <susmit> ok...we will go alphabetically
17:25:07 <susmit> asalles,
17:25:19 <susmit> you are the first one :)
17:25:28 <asalles> ok, let me write
17:25:32 <susmit> sure
17:25:52 <asalles> I think that was an internal conflict FAmSCo mentoring that ended the voluntary departure of one of them. What we need is more restraint in making further meetings.
17:26:33 <asalles> Eliminating the fights we have a better order and greater activity.
17:26:34 <asalles> eof
17:26:41 <susmit> gomix,
17:26:45 <susmit> your turn
17:26:54 <gomix> aja
17:27:10 <gomix> i think there was some conflicts
17:27:27 <gomix> there's no magic recipe for avoiding them
17:27:45 <gomix> i believe its a matter of maturity
17:28:02 <gomix> so famsco members should be elected wisely by the ambassadors...
17:28:05 <yn1v> !
17:28:07 <gomix> to reduce those risks
17:28:10 <gomix> eof
17:28:24 <susmit> igorps,
17:28:35 <susmit> yn1v, we are going alphabetically
17:28:43 <igorps> We need to not accommodate. There are a lot of things to be done as committee.
17:28:53 <igorps> We should define tasks and mare sure constantly that we are pursuing our objectives.
17:29:15 <igorps> For instance, one of the things we should look into is the regional activity, there is always something going on in local groups and they are constantly needing help
17:29:20 <igorps> eof
17:29:53 <susmit> lcafiero,
17:30:06 <susmit> your turn
17:30:15 <lcafiero> Thank you.
17:31:50 <lcafiero> I agree with igorps to a large degree. We need to get things done and we need people who are going to do them. We can't control what people do or why they join, and there is always a drop off in activity in many cases where ambassadors, new or old, have other things to do.
17:31:54 <lcafiero> That's just life.
17:32:42 <lcafiero> On the topic of mentors that was brought up earlier, I think there's a huge misconception of what mentors do, how and why mentors are chosen and what the job -- and it's an additional job and not a "perk" -- really entails.
17:33:11 <lcafiero> Since this is not a "mentor" question, I won't go further on it. But you can be sure I'd be glad to expand on it when it comes up.
17:33:13 <lcafiero> eof
17:33:30 <susmit> yn1v, your turn
17:33:43 <yn1v> I reviewed some Famsco minutes, seems that there was some issues out of topic that wasted time. Probabably that dropped sense of usefulles and therefore drop attendance. I think that we need to keep prioritacing topics and tasks, and make extra meetings for other issues that are off topic, but still important. Hopesfully this cycle will have less personal confrontations. It was sad to see the channel not reaching quorum for a meeting.
17:33:47 <yn1v> eof
17:34:54 <susmit> zoltanh7211, you are the last one :)
17:35:53 <zoltanh7211> I think we need tasks, and communication between each other. That needs transparency, and no judging each other. Respect. I want to work together. We are not enemies, we are Fedorians.
17:37:53 <zoltanh7211> We have to get more attention with publicity about our decisions, and if it's possible on planet too. That will show that we are the proper leaders
17:37:57 <zoltanh7211> eof
17:38:03 <susmit> great...
17:38:45 <susmit> Thank you all for coming and answering questions. We will put forward the questions to next meeting chair.
17:38:58 <susmit> we are closing now.
17:39:02 <susmit> Thanks again.
17:39:05 <susmit> #endmeeting