fedora-tour
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12:05:44 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora-tour dev meet
12:05:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Feb  5 12:05:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:05:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
12:05:56 <FranciscoD> #chair Subfusc kishan praveenkumar underscores
12:05:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Subfusc kishan praveenkumar underscores
12:06:03 <FranciscoD> lets stick to some rules :P
12:06:08 <FranciscoD> ! to talk
12:06:10 <FranciscoD> ? to question
12:06:12 <FranciscoD> eof when done
12:06:17 <FranciscoD> lets go, whose up first? :P
12:06:27 <Subfusc> I believe thats me
12:06:32 <Subfusc> atleast according to the mail
12:06:34 <Subfusc> :)
12:06:55 <FranciscoD> lol
12:07:00 <Subfusc> subfusc -> fransiscod -> kishan -> praveenkumar -> underscores
12:07:00 <FranciscoD> lemme get the agenda, one sec
12:07:39 <FranciscoD> #link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fedora-tour/2012-February/000015.html agenda
12:07:42 <underscores> http://picpaste.de/glade_fedoratour-lDKnBiv4.png
12:07:55 <Subfusc> underscores: not now :P
12:08:01 <FranciscoD> #topic action items from previous meeting
12:08:01 <underscores> Subfusc: oh sorry :(
12:08:14 <FranciscoD> zodbot seems sleepy nowadays..
12:08:23 <FranciscoD> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-tour/2012-01-22/fedora-tour.2012-01-22-12.01.html
12:08:40 <FranciscoD> I'll clear the git repo as soon as we start development afresh
12:08:47 <Subfusc> yeah
12:08:58 <FranciscoD> has everyone applied for fedora-tour group on FAS?
12:09:04 <FranciscoD> kishan has, I approved him today
12:09:07 <FranciscoD> what about the others?
12:09:07 <Subfusc> No
12:09:09 <Subfusc> :P
12:09:10 <underscores> no
12:09:20 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: you're the admin! shut up! :P
12:09:25 <praveenkumar> I applied already :)
12:09:30 <FranciscoD> underscores: do it whenever you have time :)
12:09:34 <FranciscoD> one of us will approve you
12:09:42 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: you're approved too, right?
12:09:48 <praveenkumar> yes
12:09:53 <FranciscoD> Is everyone on the ML too?
12:10:00 <kishan> yes
12:10:02 <FranciscoD> https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-tour
12:10:06 <praveenkumar> yes
12:10:07 <FranciscoD> in case anyone isn't
12:10:15 <underscores> you mean gitfedora-tour?
12:10:25 <FranciscoD> underscores: yes
12:10:36 <FranciscoD> #topic discuss techs for rewriting fedora-tour
12:10:40 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: you're up boy :P
12:11:05 <Subfusc> oh hurray
12:11:33 <Subfusc> We'll we can first start with that I have looked on the batch approach
12:11:33 <FranciscoD> ?
12:11:43 * FranciscoD has one question before Subfusc starts :P
12:11:48 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: shoot
12:11:49 <Subfusc> :P
12:11:55 <FranciscoD> I looked at your git repo
12:11:58 <FranciscoD> is that LISP?
12:12:03 <underscores> yeah
12:12:05 <Subfusc> oh yeah, it is
12:12:09 * FranciscoD faints
12:12:16 <kishan> lol :D
12:12:21 <FranciscoD> eof
12:12:23 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: the readme says so
12:12:24 <Subfusc> :P
12:12:33 <Subfusc> #link https://github.com/subfusc/Fedora-Tour-Batch
12:12:45 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: the readme was blanked when I looked at it
12:12:49 <Subfusc> For all of you, that is the demo I made, so you can see what i mean by batch approach
12:12:50 <FranciscoD> :P
12:13:24 <FranciscoD> ?
12:13:25 <Subfusc> if you all can click the link, the readme will be visible right under the files
12:14:07 <Subfusc> It in itself gives a short "what is this and how does this batch program work"
12:14:13 * FranciscoD goes to git pull
12:14:16 <FranciscoD> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-tour/2012-02-05/
12:14:19 <Subfusc> so I think it will be usefull for you all to read
12:14:47 <Subfusc> praveenkumar: https://github.com/subfusc/Fedora-Tour-Batch
12:15:45 <underscores> Subfusc: can you explain the advantages of that aproach?
12:15:46 <Subfusc> So tell me when you have all read the README, and I'll continue with some pro's and cons
12:15:52 <underscores> ok  ^^
12:16:57 * FranciscoD read it
12:17:06 <kishan> me too
12:17:14 <underscores> me too
12:17:30 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: proceed :)
12:17:38 <Subfusc> okay
12:17:47 <FranciscoD> git clone https://github.com/subfusc/Fedora-Tour-Batch.git
12:17:52 <Subfusc> So the idea of batch is simply do one task at a time in a sequence
12:17:53 <FranciscoD> if anyone wants to clone her
12:18:17 <Subfusc> The Pro's are pretty good
12:18:22 <Subfusc> low machinepower overhead
12:18:27 <Subfusc> pretty easy to administer
12:18:35 <Subfusc> and easy to maintain
12:18:53 <FranciscoD> ?
12:18:53 <Subfusc> also, its probably the easiest way to develop
12:19:22 <Subfusc> the Cons are that the content is pretty static
12:19:52 <Subfusc> i mean, we can't do things on the local machine unless we find a javascript library to do that. And i dont think that exist
12:20:29 <Subfusc> But that might or might not be so necessary for us
12:21:00 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: you had a question?
12:21:02 <Subfusc> :)
12:21:16 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: clisp is not part of the default package set, is it?
12:21:34 <FranciscoD> 2. so, do we deliver the final integrated product in the packge to a user
12:21:51 <FranciscoD> or do we have to ship all these components and they get integrated on the fly?
12:22:16 <FranciscoD> #info clisp is 4.7MB in size
12:22:32 <underscores> ?
12:22:41 <Subfusc> no, clisp is not default. And we will probably deliver a finished compiled version of the whole thing to the user
12:22:45 <underscores> erm I just tryed to install it. a whole SE Linux policy is needed for it
12:23:01 <Subfusc> and all we really need then is a small bash or c applicaiton to launch a browser
12:23:07 <Subfusc> pointing at the correct point
12:23:23 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: clisp wont be needed by the user then, its only needed by us devs, right?
12:23:28 <Subfusc> yes
12:23:30 * FranciscoD is just trying to understand the entire process
12:23:34 <FranciscoD> ah, then no issues
12:24:16 <Subfusc> so we could sort of split the packages into fedora-tour-combiner fedora-tour-content fedora-tour-launcher
12:24:21 <FranciscoD> #info pros 1. low machine power overhead
12:24:33 <FranciscoD> #info pro 2. easy to administer
12:24:41 <FranciscoD> #info pros 3. easy to maintain
12:24:50 <FranciscoD> #info con 1. static content
12:24:50 <Subfusc> and the only one really needing clisp is the combiner, and it will only be used to compile the content
12:25:15 <FranciscoD> yeah, we can think about packaging later imo
12:25:24 <FranciscoD> as long as it doesnt pull in deps for the user, there is no issue
12:25:31 <Subfusc> Also FYI your information. My DEMO is written in Common Lisp, that doesn't mean that the product we will make together has to be in lisp
12:25:33 <Subfusc> :P
12:25:45 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: no clue what that means :P
12:25:59 <FranciscoD> the product is in html, or what?
12:26:10 * FranciscoD hasnt been able to run make, lisp missing
12:26:35 <underscores> FranciscoD: nah I think what he is trying to say is that we can use any langauge to write down a static "script" that will open one thing after another :)
12:26:39 * kishan is installing clisp
12:26:49 <Subfusc> if we take the packanges in details: fedora-tour-combiner -> lisp files, fedora-tour-content -> html files,  fedora-tour-launcher -> bash/c launcher
12:28:04 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: Point being, if we take the batch approach, we are probably not going to just take my code, we will write something bottom up. And we can have the language fight then
12:28:05 <Subfusc> :P
12:28:27 <FranciscoD> ?
12:28:57 <Subfusc> okay, lets back up
12:29:03 <Subfusc> you talk about clisp dependencies
12:29:14 <Subfusc> only my demo has those dependencies.
12:29:35 <Subfusc> but we are not going to just take my demo, and roll with that. We will probably have to do something more fundamental first
12:29:46 <Subfusc> for eksample, choosing a language we are all comfortable with
12:30:09 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: lets says we choose $language
12:30:22 <FranciscoD> can you describe the workflow in terms of $language?
12:30:59 <Subfusc> Workflow as in how we will build the program?
12:31:16 <Subfusc> or how the program will work>?
12:31:36 <FranciscoD> all of it, everything you can think of. From source code to user viewing
12:32:01 <Subfusc> What the program does and how I think the packaging doesnt change
12:32:06 <Subfusc> only how we write it
12:32:31 <Subfusc> so the demo is a demo of how it will work in $LANGUAGE, only in this case $LANGUAGE = lisp
12:33:15 <Subfusc> We will compile content from a theme and content, and we will serve static html to end users, using a small launcher
12:34:12 <FranciscoD> sounds good
12:34:18 <FranciscoD> anything else to add Subfusc ?
12:34:40 <Subfusc> Nope
12:34:41 <Subfusc> :)
12:34:49 <FranciscoD> alright
12:34:53 <Subfusc> I'm exited to see what you folks got
12:34:53 <FranciscoD> whose next?
12:34:57 <Subfusc> You
12:34:59 <Subfusc> :p
12:35:01 <FranciscoD> XD
12:35:05 <Subfusc> Unless there are any questions to me
12:35:18 <underscores> no
12:35:32 <FranciscoD> I was in-charge of le django
12:35:50 <FranciscoD> http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour/Buggsy.tar.gz
12:35:50 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: okay, you have the stage
12:35:54 <FranciscoD> please download that :)
12:36:11 <FranciscoD> its a bugzilla kinda thing a friend of mine and me had made quite a while back
12:36:14 <FranciscoD> django looks easy
12:36:19 <FranciscoD> very easy in fact
12:36:22 <FranciscoD> so, thats a pro
12:36:27 <FranciscoD> #info pro 1. Easy
12:36:36 <FranciscoD> #info pro 2. Python !
12:36:45 <FranciscoD> the cons..
12:36:56 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: con: its not lisp
12:37:07 <FranciscoD> it looks kinda overkill
12:37:12 <FranciscoD> I'll explain that
12:37:30 <FranciscoD> to run a django based site, you need to "run" a django server
12:37:36 <FranciscoD> that the browser will connect to
12:37:44 <FranciscoD> if you've untarred the tar
12:37:57 <Subfusc> ? How to launch?
12:38:07 <FranciscoD> I'll show you
12:38:11 <FranciscoD> go into Buggsy,
12:38:17 <FranciscoD> and then into the other Buggsy ;)
12:38:42 <FranciscoD> you should have a file manage.py in there
12:38:47 <Subfusc> yep
12:38:56 <FranciscoD> python manage.py runserver
12:39:16 <Subfusc> no module named django core
12:39:18 <FranciscoD> you can connect to it in your browser using 127.0.0.1:8000
12:39:34 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: ah, you dont have python-django installed i guess
12:39:53 <Subfusc> so that will be extra dependencies?
12:39:58 <FranciscoD> yeah
12:40:00 <Subfusc> #info Django 3.5M
12:40:11 <FranciscoD> the server must be run, for the viewer to see the site
12:40:16 <FranciscoD> which really seems overkill
12:40:36 <FranciscoD> this would be an awesome framework to use if we were hosting a web version of the tour
12:40:40 <FranciscoD> say on tour.fp.o
12:40:49 <FranciscoD> but for a local system, it doesnt seem like a good idea
12:41:00 <FranciscoD> also, django is used generally when you need server side scripting
12:41:03 <FranciscoD> we dont
12:41:13 <FranciscoD> neither do we need databases etc
12:41:21 <underscores> indeed
12:41:35 <Subfusc> I have some problems running this
12:41:44 <Subfusc> I will just have to take your word for it
12:41:44 <FranciscoD> we only need to display data, to a local system (same server and client),
12:42:04 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: open Settings.py
12:42:23 <Subfusc> I get a templatenotexist when i open the page
12:42:28 <FranciscoD> set TEMPLATE_DIRS to the absolute path of the Buggsy_temp dir
12:42:29 <Subfusc> so Lets not get into details
12:42:33 <Subfusc> ah
12:42:34 <Subfusc> k
12:42:39 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: that will fix it
12:43:34 <Subfusc> Im up and running
12:44:12 <Subfusc> You might want to read files from your localhost, and then django would be necessary
12:44:28 <Subfusc> or a backend of some sort
12:45:04 <FranciscoD> http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour/buggsy.png
12:45:06 <FranciscoD> screenshot
12:45:24 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: what sort of files, for instance?
12:45:47 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: /etc/redhat-release e.g
12:46:03 <Subfusc> first example i could find
12:46:17 <FranciscoD> well, the other methods we discuss can read files too
12:46:31 <FranciscoD> for instance basic html5 + css + javascript can
12:46:32 <Subfusc> yes, but not the batch approach. Thats static files
12:46:44 <Subfusc> javascript can read host files?
12:46:48 <Subfusc> in a browser?
12:46:49 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: but we'll write it so the release is present
12:47:09 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: when i did ASP javascript we used to read and write files
12:47:17 <Subfusc> ASP is a server language
12:47:18 <FranciscoD> and here, the server and client are the same
12:47:19 <Subfusc> ;)
12:47:25 <FranciscoD> server side = client side here
12:47:26 <FranciscoD> :)
12:47:48 <FranciscoD> so any server side language here will work, wont it?
12:47:48 <Subfusc> Yes, Im just asking if pure javascript can read flatfiles from your system
12:48:01 <FranciscoD> dunno, will have to check that up
12:48:13 <Subfusc> I'll do that til nextime
12:48:20 <Subfusc> since it is most relevant for the batch approach
12:48:30 <Subfusc> #task Subfusc check file I/O in javscript
12:48:45 <FranciscoD> eof for me
12:48:48 <FranciscoD> whose next?
12:48:56 <kishan> that's me
12:48:57 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: good presentation :)
12:48:57 <kishan> :)
12:49:01 <FranciscoD> XD
12:49:07 <FranciscoD> kishan: go ahead please :)
12:49:19 <kishan> mine was to look into clutter
12:49:40 <kishan> I don't have anything to show yet :/
12:49:55 <kishan> clutter's a bit messy
12:50:05 <FranciscoD> Subfusc and me know that XD
12:50:18 <kishan> ah :D ok
12:50:20 <Subfusc> No shit :P
12:50:36 <kishan> pyclutter is being deprecated
12:50:47 <FranciscoD> yeah, sucks
12:50:48 <kishan> PyGObject is gonna take the stage.
12:51:16 <Subfusc> kishan: have you looked on PyGObject?
12:51:36 <kishan> Subfusc: not yet.
12:51:48 <kishan> have been looking into clutter most of it.
12:51:50 <FranciscoD> is it stable yet?
12:52:01 <FranciscoD> i dont want to work with something that can change anytime
12:52:02 <kishan> not really.
12:52:08 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: WORD!
12:52:12 <FranciscoD> lets use stable tech
12:52:17 <underscores> ok
12:52:30 <kishan> but its got bindings with GTK, so it could be useful for a desktop-thingy
12:52:33 <Subfusc> INFO: Lisp has been stable since 1950
12:52:35 <Subfusc> :D
12:52:41 <FranciscoD> lol
12:52:52 <underscores> *cough*
12:52:59 <kishan> :D
12:53:04 <FranciscoD> kishan: any pros and cons?
12:53:16 <kishan> cons, from what I've seen :P
12:53:39 <kishan> a number of dependencies, like cobgl, glib, etc
12:53:53 <kishan> not sure if all of them belong to the default.
12:54:26 <FranciscoD> #task kishan check clutter deps and how many extra packages we'll need
12:54:52 <FranciscoD> kishan: anything else to add?
12:54:52 <kishan> ok
12:55:20 <kishan> not much, I'm afraid. could be used alongwith GTK for a desktop version.
12:55:24 <kishan> will look into that.
12:55:28 <Subfusc> Perhaps check out GObject?
12:55:43 <underscores> #link http://picpaste.de/glade_fedoratour-lDKnBiv4.png something like that?
12:56:11 <Subfusc> underscores: can you take shots using the glade-previewer?
12:56:12 <Subfusc> :P
12:56:13 <kishan> underscores:  yes
12:56:32 <underscores> Subfusc: I could but that way you can see the Glade RAD tool as well :)
12:56:50 <Subfusc> ;)
12:56:50 <underscores> ok
12:57:11 <FranciscoD> okay, whose next? :)
12:57:16 <underscores> me
12:57:19 <underscores> I think
12:57:20 <underscores> ...
12:57:29 <praveenkumar> praveenkumar: I think it's me :)
12:57:34 <underscores> damn
12:57:40 <praveenkumar> underscores: ^^
12:58:05 <praveenkumar> was looking into cairo, which is very confussing for me ..
12:58:29 <praveenkumar> please take a look http://fpaste.org/jpak/
12:58:52 <Subfusc> praveenkumar: you made this?
12:59:18 <praveenkumar> no, I took a example and edit that as much I learned :)
12:59:43 <praveenkumar> I am still not understand how this tech help for fedora-tour
13:00:00 <praveenkumar> It's only a 2d graphics lib
13:00:32 <FranciscoD> hrm
13:00:38 <FranciscoD> so its low level, like clutter
13:00:44 <Subfusc> sounds like overkill for us
13:00:48 <FranciscoD> as in you have to make your boxes, and text and stuff?
13:00:55 <FranciscoD> sounds like shit complex XD
13:01:05 <underscores> indeed
13:01:20 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: I mentioned this when we gave out the tasks. Clutter is the 2d library for GTK
13:01:21 <Subfusc> :P
13:01:24 <underscores> FranciscoD: hey what have you said? O_o
13:01:30 <Subfusc> erhm cairo is
13:01:50 <FranciscoD> underscores: what did I say?
13:01:52 <FranciscoD> :O ?
13:02:04 <underscores> FranciscoD: dunno he suddenly disconnected ^^
13:02:09 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: yeah, clutter also provides you with rotation etc for 3d
13:02:15 <FranciscoD> lol
13:02:25 <FranciscoD> he's sitting across the table from me here btw :P
13:02:25 <Subfusc> So we can rule out cairo
13:02:27 <Subfusc> ..
13:02:28 <Subfusc> :)
13:02:33 <FranciscoD> yeah, seems like it
13:02:46 <Subfusc> also, it doesnt have lisp bindings
13:02:47 <Subfusc> :P
13:02:58 <underscores> so that is the point where we dig out Gtk :)
13:03:03 <FranciscoD> lets wait for a minute
13:03:09 <underscores> yeah
13:03:11 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar got disconnected
13:03:12 <FranciscoD> XD
13:03:14 <underscores> till he reconnects ^^
13:03:23 <underscores> FranciscoD: you are not sitting in Ilmenau do you? :)
13:03:32 <FranciscoD> oh, no
13:03:41 <FranciscoD> Bangalore! Where is Ilmenau? :O
13:03:45 <praveenkumar> <FranciscoD> hrm
13:03:46 <praveenkumar> <FranciscoD> so its low level, like clutter
13:03:48 <praveenkumar> <Subfusc> sounds like overkill for us
13:03:49 <underscores> FranciscoD: Thuringia :)
13:03:52 <praveenkumar> <FranciscoD> as in you have to make your boxes, and text and stuff?
13:03:54 <FranciscoD> XD
13:03:54 <praveenkumar> <FranciscoD> sounds like shit complex XD
13:03:56 <praveenkumar> <underscores> indeed
13:03:58 <praveenkumar> <praveenkumar> it is complex and less documented for python
13:04:00 <praveenkumar> <praveenkumar> I only got one url for python tutorial :/
13:04:02 <praveenkumar> <praveenkumar> so it's hard to maintain ..
13:04:04 <praveenkumar> <praveenkumar> pros: python is default installed
13:04:10 <Subfusc> hey, its a history paste fest \i/
13:04:16 <FranciscoD> lol
13:04:16 <praveenkumar> but cairo dependency is there
13:04:22 <FranciscoD> how much is it?
13:04:27 <FranciscoD> less than an MB, right?
13:04:42 <FranciscoD> anyway, proceed
13:04:46 <praveenkumar> #info cairo - 700 k
13:04:49 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go on,
13:05:01 <FranciscoD> anything else, or should we pull up underscores ?
13:05:03 <FranciscoD> ;)
13:05:04 <praveenkumar> cons : already discussed
13:05:07 <praveenkumar> :)
13:05:42 <underscores> yeah :D
13:05:44 <underscores> ok
13:05:44 <FranciscoD> underscores: stand up
13:05:44 <praveenkumar> underscores: you are up man :)
13:05:53 <underscores> I have looked at Gtk and especially on glade
13:05:59 <underscores> http://picpaste.de/glade_fedoratour-lDKnBiv4.png that is how glade looks like
13:06:14 <underscores> I havent written any code due to my obligations with exams and learning for them
13:06:23 <FranciscoD> np :)
13:06:24 <underscores> so  I will describe what this is all about
13:06:43 <underscores> With Glade we can "click" our GUIs and we will see what we are doing
13:06:51 <underscores> Glade offers bindings for many languages including Python and C
13:07:18 <underscores> with the version of glade we have at hand (Glade3) a .glade file will include our GUI as an XML file
13:07:29 <underscores> every function on that gui is written by hand, no code generation
13:08:03 <underscores> but all objects in there can have default values that can be set by hand in the glade designer :)
13:08:13 <underscores> things like: visibility, standard texts and so on
13:08:32 <underscores> Glade offers us a designer for a proper Gtk GUI
13:08:39 <underscores> so contra to this:
13:08:52 <underscores> Glade will cause some overhead (we need libglade for that)
13:09:30 <underscores> we will need a lot of planning or our GUIs will look messy or might not work (so no hacking but proper engineering)
13:09:46 <underscores> pros for Gtk and glade:
13:09:52 <underscores> easy to get into it
13:09:57 <underscores> everyone will see what he is doing
13:10:09 <underscores> technology is afaik used by other fedora projects :)
13:10:17 <underscores> bindings for most common languages :)
13:10:30 <underscores> erm...
13:10:39 <underscores> I thought out some more but I have forgotten them -.-
13:11:07 <underscores> ah k we are very variable in what we can do with it: from static pictures to HTML rendering with gtk-webkit :)
13:11:26 <underscores> also we have file open dialoges and stuff that will make look the application more "standard Gtk/Gnome"
13:11:40 <underscores> erm yeah do you need more input?
13:11:54 * FranciscoD kinda gets it
13:11:56 <underscores> learning glade means learning to implement ordinary Gtk applications by accessing a XML file :D
13:12:09 <underscores> oh and later changes on GUI and code are a bit easier then when writing everything from hand :D
13:12:41 <Subfusc> cons?
13:12:46 <underscores> cons are above :)
13:13:30 <underscores> Subfusc: never place cons at the bottom of an argumentation when you want that people will be on your side :P
13:13:52 <praveenkumar> :)
13:14:18 <Subfusc> If we do it like this, how do you plan to display content, menues etc?
13:15:11 <Subfusc> Also, something dear to me, compatability across fedora-releases?
13:15:21 <underscores> hm good question atm I have just made a screenshot. you can display and remove them by editing their attributes
13:15:54 <underscores> Gtk should be avaiable by default on all fedora spins
13:16:01 <underscores> and releases
13:16:05 <underscores> that work atm
13:16:29 <FranciscoD> hrm, was no one assigned basic html5 + css?
13:16:33 <FranciscoD> and stuff like that?
13:16:36 <FranciscoD> static pages?
13:16:50 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: yes, thats me
13:16:51 <Subfusc> ;P
13:17:03 <Subfusc> or rather a system that will serve static html5
13:17:09 <Subfusc> at the end of a batch pipe line
13:17:28 <FranciscoD> i really want to have deliverables in basic html5
13:17:34 <FranciscoD> it has quite a few advantages
13:17:41 <FranciscoD> 1. no DE centric crap
13:17:51 <FranciscoD> 2. stable, compatible
13:18:01 <FranciscoD> 3. non fedora users can also use it, to have a look
13:18:18 <praveenkumar> no extra dependencies :)
13:18:24 <FranciscoD> ah, forgot that one XD
13:18:27 <Subfusc> Yeah, 3. i think is a good point. I mean even on fedora i use the Arch wiki because its so awesome
13:18:36 <FranciscoD> yeah
13:19:17 <Subfusc> If we can make something similar in awesomeness it could be a good contribution to all linux
13:19:24 <FranciscoD> should we vote then? :P
13:19:57 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: we said a week on deciding?
13:20:03 <Subfusc> but we can probably rule out some
13:20:15 <FranciscoD> sure
13:20:23 <FranciscoD> so we take a week to consider all these options then?
13:20:27 <Subfusc> Cairo is probably to low level for us
13:20:35 <underscores> yup
13:20:35 <FranciscoD> django is overkill
13:21:00 <FranciscoD> clutter is messy XD
13:21:01 <underscores> we should rule out cairo and django and what about clutter? someone said it si deprecated we should evaluate GObject then?
13:21:13 <FranciscoD> clutter isnt deprecated, pyclutter is
13:21:16 <underscores> ok
13:21:26 <Subfusc> Isn't GObject the GTK3 version of "howto write gtk" ?
13:21:29 <FranciscoD> clutter is the "in thing" with gnome3
13:21:38 * FranciscoD knows nothing about these Object thingys
13:21:43 <FranciscoD> we'll have to look into it
13:21:47 <FranciscoD> but it has cons:
13:21:52 <kishan> i like GTK :P
13:22:00 <FranciscoD> 1. folks on KDE need to install quite a few deps
13:22:09 <praveenkumar> but gtk is DE centric
13:22:14 <FranciscoD> 2. no clue how non fedora folks will use the tour
13:23:01 <FranciscoD> and we've already thought about making different frontends for gnome/kde etc
13:23:06 <FranciscoD> its just extra work IMO
13:23:19 <FranciscoD> extra work sucks
13:23:47 <Subfusc> 1+
13:24:02 <FranciscoD> lets take a week to think about it
13:24:09 <FranciscoD> underscores: kishan praveenkumar Subfusc : what say?
13:24:26 <underscores> +1
13:24:38 <kishan> yes, lets not hurry and then repent later
13:24:48 <Subfusc> It looks like my batch approach and underscores glade approach is up for a fight?
13:24:52 <Subfusc> is that how it looks?
13:25:05 <kishan> pretty much!
13:25:13 <FranciscoD> yeah, but i'm leaning on the batch
13:25:19 <FranciscoD> since the final product is html5
13:25:28 <FranciscoD> underscores: what is the final product of your method?
13:25:32 <FranciscoD> a gtk app?
13:25:38 <Subfusc> batch approach is just an approach to make static html5 + css ieasier
13:25:41 <Subfusc> *easier
13:26:13 <kishan> afaik, glade would result in a gtk app.
13:26:19 <underscores> FranciscoD: yup
13:26:34 <underscores> At the end you implement your functions in any langauge you want
13:26:37 <underscores> OH
13:26:40 <underscores> I have forgotten to tell you
13:26:44 <underscores> Gtk is event driven ;-)
13:26:46 <Subfusc> underscores: you can look into if there is any way to import the xml from glade into qts version of the same
13:26:48 <Subfusc> qt designer
13:26:50 <Subfusc> something
13:27:12 <Subfusc> underscores: most things today are event driven ;)
13:27:13 <underscores> Subfusc: We will have to see but I think for Qt we would have to develop a ocmplete new application :(
13:27:27 <underscores> Subfusc: yeah but that is the central thing about gtk ^^'
13:28:00 <underscores> Anyway the "look and feel" of Gtk apps on KDE today is the same as KDE applications because it will simply use the standard theme afaik ._.
13:28:07 <FranciscoD> hrm that makes it -1 for me
13:28:21 <underscores> :(
13:28:40 <praveenkumar> underscores: but running gtk app on kde, gtk dep should be needed ..
13:28:47 <Subfusc> underscores: gtk3 theming from kde will be introduced in f17, but its buggy
13:28:49 <Subfusc> im running it now
13:28:58 <Subfusc> praveenkumar: +1
13:29:07 <underscores> praveenkumar: indeed it will
13:29:16 <underscores> You can see the problem with the Packagekit GUI
13:29:24 <praveenkumar> underscores: so it's overhead for kde users :/
13:29:31 <FranciscoD> and us
13:29:33 <underscores> the GUI for KDE/Qt is a complete independent project :(
13:29:37 <FranciscoD> since we need two front ends at least
13:29:38 <underscores> praveenkumar: it is indeed
13:30:26 <Subfusc> also it will not be usable for other distroes wich focuses on small and lightweight or EFL/QT pure
13:30:38 <Subfusc> and it can not be easily put out on the web
13:30:43 <Subfusc> IMO
13:30:46 <FranciscoD> cant
13:30:49 <FranciscoD> quite a few cons here
13:30:53 <praveenkumar> right
13:31:02 <underscores> ok :(
13:31:25 <FranciscoD> http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/en/
13:31:28 <FranciscoD> anyone seen that?
13:31:33 <praveenkumar> yes
13:31:55 <Subfusc> thats so awesome
13:31:59 <FranciscoD> lol
13:32:07 <kishan> looking
13:32:17 <FranciscoD> if we use html5 etc, we can publish an online version too
13:32:24 <FranciscoD> making it available to *everyone*
13:32:26 <FranciscoD> fedora or not
13:32:31 <FranciscoD> I think thats a pretty big pro
13:32:33 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: you can't say that that's not an awesome thing
13:32:49 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: which is why I didn't say anything at all :P
13:32:56 <Subfusc> but this is more "try and only newbie" not "documenting common problems, routines" and so on
13:33:15 <FranciscoD> ours will be more in-depth
13:33:25 <FranciscoD> while we wont have apps etc, we'll cover more material
13:33:42 <Subfusc> yes
13:33:43 <FranciscoD> no way in hell I'm making a web version of Libreoffice so folks can try it out
13:34:03 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: i think they have used this "gtk3-html" thing floting around
13:34:08 <FranciscoD> i dunno
13:34:28 <Subfusc> it is possible to put gtk apps on the web now
13:34:37 <Subfusc> but I dont think it suits our need
13:34:39 <Subfusc> s
13:34:46 <FranciscoD> couldnt it just be a modified ubunto box with vnc or something published in a browser?
13:34:46 <underscores> ok
13:35:10 <FranciscoD> lets begin churning our butter
13:35:18 <FranciscoD> #topic take aways from this session
13:35:25 <FranciscoD> 1. cairo doesnt fit
13:35:31 <FranciscoD> 2. django is overkill
13:35:41 <Subfusc> lisp is awesome?
13:35:51 <FranciscoD> 3. glade is good, but it is GNOME centric
13:35:57 <FranciscoD> 4. HTML5 + css is awesome
13:36:00 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: :P
13:36:11 <FranciscoD> what are our tasks for this week then?
13:36:21 <praveenkumar> 5.clutter also don't fit
13:36:24 <FranciscoD> #tasks for week Feb 6- Feb 12
13:36:33 <Subfusc> Learn lisp?
13:36:34 <FranciscoD> yeah, forgot that one
13:36:34 <Subfusc> :P
13:36:44 <FranciscoD> #topic tasks for week Feb 6- Feb 12
13:36:54 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: is there no alternative?
13:37:02 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: are you sure the combining thing will work
13:37:03 <Subfusc> No, we should just think about what we have learned here and we will vote for technologies in a week
13:37:18 <FranciscoD> for everything? images, videos, the entire shebang?
13:37:34 <FranciscoD> (not just text is what I mean)
13:37:37 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: I can extend the demo for you to include those things, yes
13:37:54 <FranciscoD> #task all start looking into lisp
13:38:01 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: got a good tutorial link?
13:38:07 <Subfusc> But it will involve only moving content to the correct place
13:38:37 <FranciscoD> #task Subfusc extend the demo a bit to include text, images, videos etc
13:38:42 <FranciscoD> just to see its exhaustive enough
13:38:50 <FranciscoD> (since you dont have to learn lisp :P)
13:38:56 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/
13:38:58 <Subfusc> there you go
13:39:00 <Subfusc> ;)
13:39:12 <FranciscoD> what other tasks do we have then?
13:39:25 <FranciscoD> maybe start deciding on what we want to display?
13:39:38 <FranciscoD> ie content?
13:39:38 <kishan> yes, that would be good.
13:39:42 <FranciscoD> we should discuss that next?
13:39:45 <Subfusc> yes, deciding what content we want will help in deciding what technology to use
13:39:53 <kishan> what, and in which order to display stuff.
13:40:09 <FranciscoD> #task all: decide what content we want to display, maybe make a kinda flowchart?
13:40:27 <FranciscoD> anything else before we wrap up?
13:40:41 <Subfusc> But seriously guys, we dont have to do this in lisp. I can rewrite to python, even thou it will break my heart XD
13:41:07 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: i'll leave it up to you to decide what language would fit *best* for the combination task
13:41:10 <Subfusc> also note: Lisp is the easiest language to learn in the world
13:41:28 <FranciscoD> i dont mind learning a new language
13:41:33 <FranciscoD> specially one that is useful
13:41:45 <kishan> lets hope so :D
13:41:51 <FranciscoD> but I'd like to be sure that there isnt another language better suited to the task?
13:41:53 <Subfusc> FranciscoD: File I/O goes pretty fast in C(++)/PYTHON/LISP. So any of those
13:41:54 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: ^ ?
13:42:09 <FranciscoD> hrm, I don't mind any of them
13:42:12 <Subfusc> this is a file I/O task
13:42:23 <Subfusc> so we need languages with good File I/O
13:42:25 <FranciscoD> yeah, doesnt combining require parsing etc?
13:42:45 <FranciscoD> we'll like languages that have built in libs etc that make these tasks easier
13:42:54 <FranciscoD> thats what I'm referring to when I say "best suited"
13:43:29 <Subfusc> so and xml parser?
13:43:31 <praveenkumar> don
13:43:43 <FranciscoD> xml parser, hrm
13:43:52 <FranciscoD> c++ will pull in boost for that iirc
13:44:01 <FranciscoD> py has one, for sure
13:44:06 <FranciscoD> what about lisp?
13:44:21 <Subfusc> it probably got one
13:44:30 <Subfusc> their package thing (ala python easy_install) is HUGE
13:44:41 <FranciscoD> i think we're rushing it a little
13:44:48 <FranciscoD> how about we decide on WHAT content
13:44:54 <FranciscoD> and then we can look into HOW content
13:45:05 <Subfusc> yes
13:45:07 <FranciscoD> and then decide whether we want xml or json or whatnot?
13:45:24 <FranciscoD> we mucked up last time on the how front, so lets take it slow and sure this time
13:45:26 <Subfusc> Have everyone understood the batch approach?
13:45:46 <praveenkumar> will take a look after meeting over :)
13:45:47 <FranciscoD> #task all: play around with batch approach to understand it properly
13:46:01 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: praveenkumar underscores kishan : wrap up then?
13:46:08 <underscores> k
13:46:08 <kishan> yes
13:46:13 <praveenkumar> sure
13:46:19 <FranciscoD> #info next meeting on Feb 12 1200UTC?
13:46:23 <FranciscoD> okay for everyone?
13:46:38 <FranciscoD> same time, next sunday basically?
13:46:39 <kishan> umm.. I might be unavailable that day
13:46:49 <Subfusc> yes
13:46:50 <FranciscoD> nevermind, we can always modify it later
13:46:58 <praveenkumar> fine for me
13:46:59 <FranciscoD> lets stick to the timing for the time being
13:47:03 <FranciscoD> okay, closing
13:47:04 <FranciscoD> 5
13:47:05 <kishan> I'll read up on the logs :)
13:47:06 <FranciscoD> 4
13:47:09 <FranciscoD> 3
13:47:11 <FranciscoD> 2
13:47:13 <FranciscoD> 1
13:47:17 <FranciscoD> 0.75
13:47:18 <FranciscoD> 0.5
13:47:23 <FranciscoD> 0.25
13:47:24 <FranciscoD> bah
13:47:27 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting