02:09:40 <rbergeron> #startmeeting
02:09:40 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Mar 27 02:09:40 2010 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
02:09:42 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
02:09:50 <rbergeron> #chair ke4qqq threethirty
02:09:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: ke4qqq rbergeron threethirty
02:10:01 <rbergeron> #topic video streaming discussion
02:10:16 <rbergeron> since we're making on the fly decisions
02:10:20 <ke4qqq> we are?
02:10:24 <rbergeron> oh, we're not?
02:10:33 <rbergeron> I have a few comments I'd like to add to the discussion that I  think would get us someithing $rightnow with minimal heartache  - and give us time to spec and implement something immediately
02:10:39 <ke4qqq> I don't know - I am not the boss here - :)
02:10:53 <rbergeron> we are hive minded, plz contribute your ideas so we can come to a conclusion
02:11:01 <rbergeron> so we're not running around like chickens with heads cut off.
02:11:16 <rbergeron> we spent a day doing video at mktg fad - we shoudl figure out what to do with it
02:11:20 <ke4qqq> ohhhh I was just gonna talk about using archive.org til we got whatever $awesomestreamingsolution in place - which gives us a quick hit with minimum fuss and .......
02:11:22 <rbergeron> so that we didn't waste a day.
02:11:31 <ke4qqq> gives us time to do it right at fp.o
02:11:48 <rbergeron> threethirty: thoughts?
02:11:49 <ke4qqq> as people can easily (read WELL indexed by search engines) find our content
02:12:29 <ke4qqq> for instance we have videos from fudcon on alt.fp.o - does anyone know they are there?
02:12:36 <ke4qqq> ever tried finding them in google.??
02:13:11 <rbergeron> didn't even know they existed
02:13:13 <rbergeron> :\
02:13:16 <threethirty> i think that archive.org is a good solution no matter what else we do
02:13:45 <ke4qqq> http://www.archive.org/details/SouthEast_LinuxFest_2009_Videos   <-- this is what self did
02:13:59 <ke4qqq> videos from at least the past two fudcons are up there
02:14:03 <threethirty> but a.o often sometimes has bandwidth issues
02:14:17 <rbergeron> threethirty: are you interested in taking the lead on figuring out a long-term video solution that is fp.o hosted?
02:14:18 <ke4qqq> and there is some GREAT content there - I mean awesome content
02:14:32 <rbergeron> and i'm talking like... over the next few months, not days / weeks
02:14:48 <ke4qqq> threethirty: and realizing that we gotta get a release out - so it's not necessarily highest priority
02:14:59 <ke4qqq> though I'd love tos ee the vids we have now at archive.org
02:15:11 <rbergeron> i'm not sure how this intersects with the RFR / infrstructure guys
02:15:23 <ke4qqq> with something other than filename for descriptions
02:15:29 <rbergeron> lol
02:15:39 * rbergeron loves filename descriptions
02:15:46 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: if we do a video.fp.o - we need fp.o storage and bandwidth
02:15:57 <ke4qqq> but it sucks for SEO and finding stuff with google.
02:16:07 <rbergeron> totally-awesome-fudcon-video-starring-ke4qqq-eating-cookies-for-5-days-that-rbergeron-made.moviefilename
02:16:30 <threethirty> rbergeron: i would be willing to co-lead im afraid i may be to much of a freedom hippie to be impartial (i think thats the word i want :/)
02:16:49 <threethirty> my brain is acting weird today
02:16:50 <rbergeron> threethirty: we love freedom hippies and i will send you... "cookies"
02:16:51 <rbergeron> *Grin*
02:17:03 <ke4qqq> except that it is like this http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/videos/2009/FUDConF11/fudcon-f11-rm345-session1.ogg
02:17:07 <threethirty> rbergeron: you say that now ;)
02:17:08 <ke4qqq> threethirty: she lies
02:17:17 <ke4qqq> there are no cookies
02:17:20 <ke4qqq> :)
02:17:23 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: address, or stfu
02:17:31 * rbergeron has cookies and you better watch out
02:17:59 <ke4qqq> ok so
02:18:22 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: could we at least make a [[video_archives]] or something and link the videos in and upload them to ... whereever? archive.org
02:18:24 <ke4qqq> #action threethirty to send mail to list describing the wants of a vid solution and open for discussion
02:18:26 * rbergeron really has no clue
02:18:39 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: yep we def. should
02:19:03 <rbergeron> i mean - that could be something on mchua's student minion list
02:19:08 <ke4qqq> #action threethirty to lead the video charge - in an appropriate priority given we have a release in less than 60 days
02:19:34 <ke4qqq> #mchua to task 2 allegheny students to SEOing our video stuff - and getting links from wiki to a video page
02:19:41 <ke4qqq> #action mchua to task 2 allegheny students to SEOing our video stuff - and getting links from wiki to a video page
02:19:42 <rbergeron> meaning low priority, not high priority to make the release schedule / press
02:19:44 <ke4qqq> there
02:19:54 <ke4qqq> yeah - what she said
02:20:05 <rbergeron> that all? anyone else?
02:20:08 <ke4qqq> mchua: is that ok?
02:20:14 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to send ke4qqq cookies
02:20:19 <ke4qqq> can I coop your students that easily?
02:20:34 <mchua> ke4qqq, rbergeron, threethirty: this is fantastic.
02:20:54 <mchua> ke4qqq: we can propose it as a project and I'll pitch it aggressively on Tuesday morning in the hopes that a student team will pick it up.
02:21:04 <mchua> threethirty: you want minions? ;)
02:21:11 <ke4qqq> awesome - it means they'll have to watch lots of video though
02:21:17 <rbergeron> mchua: three-thirty wants a co-chair
02:21:23 <rbergeron> err, threethirty
02:21:27 * rbergeron wonders about rrix
02:21:27 <ke4qqq> no descriptions on some of that ohter than date - and room number
02:21:38 * rbergeron wonders what rrix is doing this summah
02:21:39 <mchua> uh, what's "SEO"?
02:21:48 <ke4qqq> Search Engine Optimization
02:21:49 <rbergeron> search engine optimization?
02:21:51 <rbergeron> :)
02:21:52 <mchua> OHHH
02:21:54 <ke4qqq> our current stuff....
02:21:54 * mchua do'h
02:21:57 <ke4qqq> is sitting here
02:21:59 <threethirty> we could still have video.fpo and "embed" the theora files in the page we are hosting, so as long as they can handle the bandwidth
02:22:00 <ke4qqq> http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/videos/2009/FUDConF11/fudcon-f11-rm345-session1.ogg
02:22:05 <ke4qqq> no clue what that is
02:22:07 <rbergeron> and get it uploaded to archive.org, yes? was that on the action list?
02:22:16 <mchua> #link http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/videos/2009/FUDConF11/fudcon-f11-rm345-session1.ogg
02:22:16 <ke4qqq> other than it was the first session in rm 345 of f11 fudcon
02:22:44 <mchua> okay. So the problem is "Fedora has these videos, and it's hard to (1) discover and (2) find them"?
02:22:45 <ke4qqq> that could be the state of fedora address or val henson talking about next gen filesystems or.....
02:22:52 <ke4qqq> mchua: yes
02:22:55 <rbergeron> mchua: i think the immediate problem was
02:23:05 <mchua> discover = people encounter videos they didn't know they were looking for, and find = I know video X exists, where is it?
02:23:07 <rbergeron> we have all this video we took from mktg fad - wheere are we putting it
02:23:13 <mchua> rbergeron: roger
02:23:15 <rbergeron> ryan has a movie
02:23:18 <rbergeron> it evolved from there
02:23:19 <rbergeron> to
02:23:26 <rbergeron> we have LOTS of video not doing anything.
02:23:35 <ke4qqq> it evolved to - we have TONS of video no one has ever seen
02:23:38 <rbergeron> and we should make it do stuff - if at least locateable.
02:23:41 <mchua> #info problem to be solved is is "Fedora has these videos, and it's hard to (1) discover and (2) find them
02:23:56 <mchua> #info immediate test case: Marketing FAD video files, where do they go and whatever do we do with them?
02:23:58 <threethirty> mchua: i could do minions or a co chair, video/the web/html5 are things im pretty passonate about and im not always the most "moderate" person in the world
02:24:03 <ke4qqq> yeah and if you google - next gen linux filesystems vidoe we should find it
02:24:23 <ke4qqq> threethirty: passion is a good thing
02:24:28 <mchua> threethirty: That's great. :D I'll forewarn you that the students from Allegheny are fairly new to the concept of "free as in freedom"
02:24:35 <rbergeron> principles and no compromises, baby
02:24:48 <mchua> they've been exposed to it in theory, their class has been reading stuff by Lessig, esr, etc.
02:24:56 <mchua> but none of them has likely worked with FOSS communities in practice
02:25:01 <rbergeron> mchua: so we should expect that their first solution is to upload everything to youtube? :)
02:25:13 <ke4qqq> yeah and that's fail imo
02:25:21 <mchua> rbergeron: we should expect that we may have to explain to them why this may not be the best automatic reaction, yeah :)
02:25:22 <ke4qqq> archive.org has html5 with ogg
02:25:22 <threethirty> crap they read ESR we are all screwed :)
02:25:33 <rbergeron> but can we have the why prepped ahead of time?
02:25:38 <mchua> threethirty: rms too, I'm pretty sure.
02:25:56 <mchua> their prof groks FOSS, it's just a hard thing to introduce to 40 frosh at once
02:26:06 <ke4qqq> yep
02:26:12 <rbergeron> mchua: can you prep the 'why we don't just dump to youtube' story for them
02:26:17 <ke4qqq> soooo exposure by immersion
02:26:22 <threethirty> i think archive.org should become a rallying place for right now, and should be a repo in the future no matter what we do
02:26:22 <rbergeron> or whoever winds up taking this, if it's determined this isn't an appropriate task
02:26:25 <rbergeron> for them
02:26:34 <mchua> rbergeron: I think we may need to come up with constraints/requirements
02:26:39 <mchua> more specific than "as free as possible!"
02:26:56 <rbergeron> mchua: so do you want to sprint with me on a bit of that
02:26:56 <rbergeron> ummmm
02:27:04 <rbergeron> monday night? would that be kosher?
02:27:09 <ke4qqq> threethirty: can you send  an email with subject Collections Fedora videos to info@a.o ?? from your fp.o address?
02:27:13 <mchua> why not just braindump now?
02:27:24 * rbergeron has 2 monkeys jumping on the bed, for one thing
02:27:25 <rbergeron> :)
02:27:29 <mchua> rbergeron: that would do it, yes.
02:27:34 <ke4qqq> you have monkeys???
02:27:36 <rbergeron> but - if you guys want to braindump real quick
02:27:37 * ke4qqq loves monkeys
02:27:43 <rbergeron> oo ooh ahh ah
02:27:44 * mchua doesn't know what she'll be doing monday night, tbh - probably prepping for class
02:27:47 <rbergeron> k
02:27:49 <threethirty> ke4qqq: im not sure how make @fpo the outgoing addy
02:27:51 <mchua> ting tang walla walla bing bang
02:27:59 <mchua> threethirty: what mail client are you using?
02:28:01 * rbergeron high fives mchua
02:28:10 <mchua> rbergeron: can haz chair to make sure can haz #idea?
02:28:16 <rbergeron> oh, sorry!
02:28:17 <rbergeron> #chair mchua
02:28:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: ke4qqq mchua rbergeron threethirty
02:28:21 <mchua> woo!
02:28:27 <mchua> oh wait, my older notes may not have... one sec
02:28:33 <mchua> #link http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/videos/2009/FUDConF11/fudcon-f11-rm345-session1.ogg
02:28:42 <threethirty> mchua: evolution
02:28:42 * rbergeron is afk with the monkeys and stuff for a min - sorry to abandon mid-boat ride, folks :)
02:28:42 <mchua> #info immediate test case: Marketing FAD video files, where do they go and whatever do we do with them?
02:28:50 <mchua> #info problem to be solved is is "Fedora has these videos, and it's hard to (1) discover and (2) find them
02:28:52 * threethirty is a mail noob/ hates email
02:29:25 * hiemanshu just spoke to dad, we might be buying a XBox 360 soon
02:29:33 <mchua> hiemanshu: SLEEP
02:29:46 <hiemanshu> mchua: dad in room, speaking to him
02:29:55 <mchua> threethirty: there's usually an option to "change outgoing address" - gimme a sec and I'll look through the UI
02:30:19 * hiemanshu dint see meeting is on
02:31:05 <rbergeron> hi russell :)
02:31:13 <threethirty> hiemanshu: its just for archival purposes
02:31:52 <rharrison> hey
02:31:52 <mchua> threethirty: edit > preferences
02:32:25 <mchua> rharrison: we're discussing requirements for a Fedora video hosting solution
02:32:34 <mchua> (using existing services! not putting one up from scratch!)
02:32:39 <mchua> archive.org + SEO, etc
02:32:55 <rharrison> dailymotion or archive.org
02:32:59 <ke4qqq> so seems like we need a wikipage listing the video content with a brief description
02:33:19 <ke4qqq> rharrison: tell me about dailymotion - I am ignorant
02:33:33 <rharrison> either that or just get a bunch of space and use html5 video tags to refer to them
02:33:42 <rharrison> just tell folks to use firefox
02:33:49 <ke4qqq> and link - and something similiar on wherever we stick that content
02:33:57 <rharrison> dailymotion actually does theora html5
02:34:06 <ke4qqq> a.o does as well now
02:34:08 <rharrison> but you have to be a "creative content" provider.
02:34:15 <ke4qqq> what does that mean?
02:34:34 <rharrison> it means you swear you aren't violating copyright.
02:34:35 * mchua looking at http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dailymotion-tests-non-Flash-video-portal-741825.html - interesting
02:34:51 <ke4qqq> ohhhh - well that's relatively easy for our content
02:35:16 <rharrison> problem is there is a delay in aproval before it gets encoded on the site.
02:35:21 <rharrison> and they
02:35:49 <rharrison> 've already denied one of my vids I reposted a new version of.
02:36:07 <ke4qqq> interesting
02:36:29 <rharrison> http://openvideo.dailymotion.com/video/xa85xf_bonzer-go_animals
02:36:30 <rbergeron> hmmmm
02:36:59 <rharrison> probably because they found my previous version and had others to get to in their queueu
02:37:09 <rharrison> never noticed it was posted by the same person.
02:37:19 <rbergeron> what's the lag time?
02:37:24 <rharrison> variable
02:37:34 <mchua> oh nice, dailymotion based on foss framework, http://www.symfony-project.org/blog/2009/02/18/dailymotion-powered-by-symfony
02:37:44 * rbergeron wonders if this makes it less appealing as a students-for-two-weeks doing stuff
02:37:56 <rharrison> it does
02:38:14 <mchua> students for 5 weeks.
02:38:15 <rharrison> any extra steps is always a problem
02:38:24 <rbergeron> ergh. sorry, mchua. :)
02:38:25 <rharrison> students tend to give up easy
02:38:39 <rharrison> especially freshmen.
02:38:49 <mchua> rharrison: not if it's their homework assignment and their profs explicitly have "become a foss contributor" as a course goal
02:39:01 <rharrison> but hey, if any of them do get things posted they can do it now with no infra on our part
02:39:04 <mchua> rharrison: or at least that decreases the chances ;)
02:39:06 * mchua nods
02:39:27 <rharrison> "or you fail" does help. ;-)
02:39:58 <rharrison> and might teach them a thing or two which is sort of why they're students in the first place.
02:40:00 <mchua> well, also, any projects they're doing... we're going to make sure they're of the sort that aren't critical-path to release, but that would actually have an *impact* if completed.
02:40:04 <rbergeron> it seems like dailymotion is a good place where we can direct our contributors who are making one or two videos to put their stuff, and then maybe link it back to [[video_wiki_unnamed_page]]
02:40:04 * mchua nods.
02:40:16 <rharrison> yep
02:40:44 <rharrison> that they can do now and fully comply with the "spirit" of Fedora
02:41:18 <ke4qqq> a.o isn't automatic but tends to be a week even when you are thwoing gigs at them
02:41:21 <ke4qqq> throwing even
02:41:31 <ke4qqq> if you notify them a bit in advance
02:41:47 <ke4qqq> at least in my experience
02:41:56 <rbergeron> so - can we do some decisionmaking on what to do so the students don't need to deal with it?
02:42:00 <rbergeron> :)
02:42:32 <rbergeron> mchua - what do you think would be most effective for them to do
02:42:34 <rharrison> yeah, both are a bit awkward for time critical things but are a place people could contribute things now without waiting on some other technical requirement.
02:42:46 <rbergeron> so they have a successful open-source experience :)
02:42:48 <ke4qqq> threethirty owns this issue - make some decisions man
02:42:52 <ke4qqq> :)
02:43:02 <rbergeron> HEY
02:43:09 * rbergeron grabs the rod back from ke4qqq
02:43:15 <threethirty> sorry mind was wondering
02:43:36 <rharrison> actually given that dailymotion already made the right call they probably would respond favorably to overtures from Fedora.
02:44:15 <ke4qqq> rharrison: know anyone there that we can talk to before saying - we have scores of gigs of video to dump on you
02:44:17 <rharrison> a simple email heads up might be enough to move those students up in the approval queue.
02:44:37 * ke4qqq notes we have video going back to 2005
02:44:48 <threethirty> i personally think that we should use as many of these compatable venues as possible but we should still have an inhouse project controled version also
02:45:22 <ke4qqq> threethirty: what's the benefit (playing devils advocate here) to using multiple venues?
02:45:31 <threethirty> if dailymotion is willing to "play ball" and legal doesnt see a problem in the TOS i say cool
02:45:45 <mchua> threethirty, with any luck you're gonna have minions in 4 days, and you'll have them for 5 weeks, and you can expect maybe ~4h from each of them a week (or twice that, but I'm being uberconservative)
02:45:50 <mchua> threethirty: whaddya want them to do?
02:46:04 <rharrison> basically dailymotion and a.o are not ideal solutions.
02:46:07 <threethirty> ke4qqq: more venuse more potential eyes... the same reason people have facebook and myspace, no one is ever in jsut one place
02:46:08 <mchua> threethirty: requirements for stuff you want them to find/make? want 'em in IRC, on lists, on blogs?
02:46:15 <rharrison> but we've been trying to get anything moving for a long time now.
02:46:33 <rharrison> so any vid we get posted through anyone is a +1
02:46:42 <ke4qqq> rharrison: true
02:47:12 <rharrison> So I totally agree we should have an infra project to develop a long term solution.
02:47:15 <rbergeron> could we not ... as a f14-15 time-frame project - not use the same backend that dailymotion is using
02:47:23 <ke4qqq> what are they using?
02:47:25 <rbergeron> to serve up video on ... vid.fp.o or whatever?
02:47:30 * ke4qqq is again ignorant
02:47:34 <rbergeron> http://www.symfony-project.org/blog/2009/02/18/dailymotion-powered-by-symfony
02:47:35 <rharrison> space is the expensive part
02:47:45 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: i have no idea, i'm just reading about how they're open and cool
02:47:49 <rbergeron> i have no idea what's -really- going on
02:48:06 <rharrison> its not going to be getting infra dev hours its going to be finding somewhere to put the vids themselves.
02:48:21 <ke4qqq> bandwidth isn't cheap either
02:48:25 <rharrison> which from everything I've read is why YouTube is sticking with h.264
02:48:35 <threethirty> mchua: as long as they allow free formats and dont make us give them rights outside of the cc-by(sa) licenses i think that is a good starting point
02:49:06 <rharrison> they aren't worried about bandwidth but storing two copies of each vid is too costly.
02:49:09 <ke4qqq> threethirty: if they want stuff outside of cc-by(sa) then we need to run it past legal - I know a.o doesn't though
02:49:35 <ke4qqq> rharrison: well goog is essentially peering - so they don't care about bandwidth, but fp.o has to worry about it
02:50:09 <threethirty> ke4qqq: a.o is the best solution is see outside of hosting it ourselves
02:50:17 <rharrison> so they'd actually save money on bandwidth with theora or better encoded h.264 but aren't doing it because the phones don't do it and they'd need to keep an extra copy.
02:50:20 <ke4qqq> soooooo what decisions are we making?
02:51:17 * rbergeron drops a pin
02:51:33 <rharrison> I'd say take a look at dailymotion to see if they clear legal.  put a.o as the preferred solution but acceptable alts are good too.
02:51:43 <rbergeron> so - a.o vs dm - sounds liek threethirty endorses a.o, as well as rharrison
02:51:46 <rbergeron> so i think that is agreed
02:51:59 * ke4qqq wonders if rharrison is now threethirty's cochair
02:52:05 <rbergeron> and we need to determine licensing to see if we can duplicate the video onto dm
02:52:06 <threethirty> i think the decision should be move forware on a.o
02:52:16 <rbergeron> okay
02:52:23 <rharrison> a.o from a ethical stand point is excellent.
02:52:24 <ke4qqq> #agreed a.o is preferred - move ahead there. eval dailymotion
02:52:28 <rbergeron> #agreed video should be hosted on a.o
02:52:33 <rbergeron> #undo
02:52:33 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x1896a150>
02:52:41 <rharrison> I've met Paul Jones.  Trust him completely.
02:52:51 <mchua> eval dailymotion against what criteria (is cc-by-sa and free formats and bandwidth it?)
02:53:01 <mchua> or is making that criteria list with threethirty part of what we'd like them to do?
02:53:24 <rbergeron> i think we should bucket the dm stuff as far as the students go - let's focus on getting them up and running on a.o
02:53:26 <ke4qqq> thats too rough for students who don't know the freedom culture imo
02:53:27 <rbergeron> (imo)
02:53:45 <rharrison> yeah, an SOP would need to be made for dailymotion.  i.e. what license / format is acceptable because you can post otherwise as well.
02:53:48 <threethirty> a.o is a great starting point
02:53:51 <ke4qqq> asking them to eval stuff on basis of libre
02:54:16 <rharrison> really with a.o based in Chapel Hill and RH in Raleigh...
02:54:34 <threethirty> butts are in kicking distance :)
02:54:35 <rharrison> its only a thirty min drive to hammer out details.
02:54:55 * rbergeron notes that students are ... where again?
02:54:57 <rharrison> I think there is a mutual benefit angle here.
02:55:01 <ke4qqq> rharrison: you know people at a.o that might help us out there?
02:55:04 <threethirty> rharrison: i agree
02:55:08 <ke4qqq> rharrison: yeah me too
02:55:17 <rharrison> I met PJ when he spoke somewhere.
02:55:40 <rharrison> don't know him on a personal level.  Was just REALLY impressed talking to him.
02:55:40 <threethirty> now we have to decide how to setup the account and how access will go
02:56:25 <rharrison> especially if RH could donate some server space for them.  Probably tax deduct for them.
02:56:27 <ke4qqq> can we move that to the list to hammer out details - get wider input - or is that something we feel confident in settling here?
02:56:30 <rbergeron> threethirty: here's what i suggest -
02:56:45 <rharrison> which is better than donating to fp.o for accounting reasons.
02:56:56 <rbergeron> ke4qqq, taking words out of my fingers again
02:57:01 <threethirty> rharrison: +1 a dontaion would be awesome for all involved
02:57:30 <rharrison> that would be a conversation for Max to have with the folks at RH.  fingers crossed is a good way to put it.
02:57:39 <rharrison> great if they do, understand if they don't.
02:57:53 <rbergeron> threethirty:i was going to say - maybe take a day or two and think about all the random details that you think of and put them in a mail to the list
02:58:18 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: is this worth a status check at next mktg meeting
02:58:28 <threethirty> rbergeron: can do
02:58:54 <rbergeron> #action threethirty to think about details and summarize in email
02:58:59 <rharrison> Off topic: dang more udev updates...  What's going on there?
02:59:07 <rbergeron> #action threethirty - above stuff over next few days
02:59:35 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: yes, if nothing else to make sure threethirty has resources / questions answered
02:59:37 <ke4qqq> or is release stuff the priority now
02:59:47 <ke4qqq> cool
02:59:53 <rbergeron> well - if we can get this stuff moved off onto the students, then great
03:00:08 <ke4qqq> anything else?
03:00:17 <rbergeron> we'd just need a "what to do' outline there for mel to present, but that's by tuesday
03:00:25 <rbergeron> mchua: still here?
03:00:25 <mchua> rbergeron: ah, sorry - they're in Meadville, PA. It's about 2h north of Pittsburgh.
03:00:28 <mchua> Yep.
03:00:29 <rharrison> that's what I like about dm.  They might be able to contribute something without going through to much trouble.
03:00:44 <mchua> I would *love* to have the students make an SOP as a deliverable.
03:01:00 <rbergeron> mchua - what do you need from us / threethirty and by when
03:01:06 <rbergeron> for you to propose this to professor(s)
03:01:08 <rbergeron> if anything at all
03:01:19 <rharrison> whoa, my wife is on the phone with someone near there right now.
03:01:22 <rharrison> small world.
03:01:38 <mchua> rbergeron, threethirty - I need a "job descript" (1-2 paragraphs) on what you need done and why it's important
03:01:39 <rbergeron> assuming threethirty and his possible co-chair rharrison want to give up control
03:02:06 <mchua> rbergeron, threethirty - monday noon is good; the class itself is tuesday morning
03:02:12 <rharrison> heh, as if I've ever held onto "control"
03:02:15 <rbergeron> threethirty: can you do that by monday, we'll review on-list along with whatever q's you have and get something to mchua so we can get the ball rolling and get back to deliverables fun?
03:02:26 <mchua> monday noon would let the profs help shape it a bit to their students ahead of time, but if I get it on Tuesday morning I am going to pitch it anyway
03:02:42 <rbergeron> substitute dates that mchua just said
03:02:44 <mchua> Mm, deliverables fun.
03:02:49 <threethirty> rbergeron: i think i can :)
03:02:55 <mchua> thanks, threethirty!
03:02:56 <rbergeron> k - if you need help, ASK ASK ASK :)
03:03:00 <mchua> Mm, videos.
03:03:05 <ke4qqq> yes - people will be here all weekend
03:03:08 <ke4qqq> so ask away
03:03:10 <ke4qqq> ask on list
03:03:19 <ke4qqq> someone will answer
03:03:21 <mchua> threethirty, I'll try to get them into this channel to talk with you as soon as I can.
03:03:29 <threethirty> lol ok
03:03:30 <mchua> (read: after tues morning)
03:03:40 * threethirty is going afk
03:03:52 <rbergeron> threethirty - i'll send out logs
03:04:05 <rbergeron> mchua - can you #info on what we need to write again
03:04:07 <rbergeron> err
03:04:08 <rbergeron> actually
03:04:17 <rbergeron> #info < mchua> rbergeron, threethirty - I need a "job descript" (1-2  paragraphs) on what you need done and why it's important
03:04:28 <mchua> #info monday noon would let the profs help shape it a bit to their students ahead of time, but if I get it on Tuesday morning I am going to pitch it anyway
03:04:35 <rbergeron> ty :)
03:04:53 <mchua> no ty ;)
03:04:58 * ke4qqq steps away for a bit - thanks all
03:05:19 * rbergeron waves, thx :)
03:05:39 * mchua has to jet
03:05:42 <rbergeron> wait wait
03:05:49 <mchua> eh?
03:05:52 <rbergeron> one last thing mchua - if you can, or i'll mail it
03:05:57 <mchua> rbergeron: go for it.
03:06:00 <rbergeron> what are we doing re: telling the kids why no youtube
03:06:11 <rbergeron> are you going to tackle that as class discussion or ... what
03:06:34 <rbergeron> or not relevant to shipping this stuff to you to ask them to do
03:06:35 <rbergeron> :)
03:06:36 <mchua> oh oh oh! "because it's not free"
03:06:55 <mchua> <insert reference to previously-read essays about what 'freedom' means in this context here>
03:06:57 <rbergeron> you know - let's do this - if the professors think it's a good topic
03:07:04 <mchua> <pointer to specific reasons why youtube != free>
03:07:06 <rbergeron> then - we'll worrry about it
03:07:12 <rbergeron> yes?
03:07:35 <rbergeron> i expect you'll be covering freedom all over the place in that class so :)
03:07:40 <rbergeron> you better be anyway :D
03:07:45 <mchua> rbergeron: yep yep yep.
03:07:49 <mchua> I mean, they've got them reading Lessig.
03:07:53 <mchua> I think we'll be ok.
03:07:59 <rbergeron> okay, so no actions there
03:08:01 <mchua> naw.
03:08:09 * rbergeron didn't action threethirty on sending out mail, fehhh
03:08:11 <mchua> I think we are covered enough to improvise from Tuesday.
03:08:24 <mchua> if I get the jobdescript from threethirty, I mean. ;)
03:09:08 <rbergeron> #action threethirty to send any questions / etc to mktg list over the weekend, get 1-2 paragraph job description to mchua by monday, rbergeron can help if needed.
03:09:28 * rbergeron looks around for loose ends and sees none...
03:09:33 * rbergeron counts down to herself
03:09:40 * rbergeron kicks mchua off to do what she was going to go do
03:09:47 <rbergeron> #endmeeting