13:55:54 <mchua> #startmeeting
13:55:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep  2 13:55:54 2009 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:55:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:55:56 <mchua> w00t
13:56:01 <ke4qqq> soooo - Mel we were talking about the magazine
13:56:09 <ke4qqq> and the echo is deafening :)
13:56:21 <mchua> ke4qqq: Yup yup. So, 24 hours ago, I hadn't heard about this idea before (but it's super-cool)
13:56:41 <ke4qqq> yeah so at the last fudcon in boston and at scale
13:56:42 <mchua> ke4qqq: can you splurt out or copy-paste or whatnot the nutshell of the idea and what's up with it right now?
13:56:52 <mchua> ke4qqq: ah, you're beating me to it :)
13:56:53 * mchua listens
13:56:56 <ke4qqq> we have tossed around the idea of having a print Fedora magazine
13:57:15 <ke4qqq> at the same time both quaid and I have talked to Rikki Kite about the possibility
13:57:36 <mchua> Independently?
13:57:39 <ke4qqq> soooo - Rikki has told me they have a 'special issue' release available that coincides with the f12 release
13:57:48 <ke4qqq> yes - or at least separately
13:58:24 <ke4qqq> btw, for those in the audience, Rikki == Rikki Kite the editor of Linux Pro Mag. in the US and Linux Mag in the rest of the world
13:58:51 <mchua> (she is awesome)
13:58:58 <mchua> "Special Issue" release? What does that mean?
13:59:12 <ke4qqq> soooo - that puts us at a decision point:
13:59:28 <ke4qqq> we rapidly need to decide if commarch/$foodisionatRHT
13:59:50 <ke4qqq> can commit the initial funds (my understanding is that we could recoup this based on sales of the magazine)
14:00:09 <ke4qqq> find a fearless-leader-of-this-project or two
14:00:26 <ke4qqq> and get content authors. (assuming we generate most of the content from the community)
14:01:06 <ke4qqq> unfortunately - I have been sooo busy with other things, I haven't kept up with this, and LPM would really like to know our intentions this week.
14:01:09 <mchua> This week.
14:01:11 * mchua blinks
14:01:25 <ke4qqq> yeah - I suck
14:01:33 <ke4qqq> for letting this slip so much
14:01:38 <mchua> Formal intentions, with a "we will publish Y content on X date and here is $Z?" or... what needs to be decided by when, exactly?
14:01:52 <ke4qqq> don't think that formal
14:01:53 <mchua> ke4qqq: no, no! I'm glad you're bringing it up now, and you've arguably had a crapton on your plate
14:02:17 * mchua is learning that the most valuable skill is knowing what to drop and what not to do and what to say no to...
14:02:21 <ke4qqq> but more the 'agreement in principle' from people with authority to make those commitments.
14:02:29 <mchua> Ah, okay.
14:02:39 <ke4qqq> which really means Max I think
14:02:44 * mchua trying to get a sense of the order of magnitude this work would be.
14:02:53 * mchua nods, I think so too, yay spevack!
14:03:15 <mchua> Right now I know I don't have the bandwidth to drive this myself for F12, because we've got Marketing gearing up and FI going and... all that
14:03:25 <mchua> I'm wondering how much extra work this would be on top of what we're already doing to make FI fly
14:03:35 <mchua> in terms of deadlines we'd need to hit for print publication
14:04:08 <mchua> ke4qqq: do you have a sense of how much on-top-of-FI work would be needed? Would we need to totally rewrite/reformat/lay-out everything, and do so much earlier?
14:04:10 <ke4qqq> sooo it's printed in DE
14:04:24 <mchua> or can we say "hey, here are the URLs for the FI items we'd like to have in a magazine, go crazy"
14:04:28 <ke4qqq> and content typically needs to have first draft into LPM about 1 month before release
14:04:42 <ke4qqq> and this is scheduled for release in mid november iirc
14:04:51 <mchua> ...meaning the content would have to go to LPM in... a month and a half.
14:04:52 <ke4qqq> they'd prefer to have raw text
14:05:30 <ke4qqq> I think - but those are details to do with the people at LPM
14:05:42 <ke4qqq> we really need to drag Rikki onto IRC
14:05:53 <ke4qqq> I do a poor substitute for answering these questions
14:06:03 <ke4qqq> (and most of my knowledge comes from writing for her for other things)
14:06:46 * ke4qqq wonders what else I can answer for you regarding this and wishes someone other than he and mchua would join this conversation
14:06:50 <mchua> quaid: ping
14:07:05 <mchua> ke4qqq: order of magnitude of funding involved - are we talking $1mil, $1k, $100?
14:07:10 <mchua> ke4qqq: for how many issues?
14:07:12 <ke4qqq> it's 7am cali-time
14:07:18 <ke4qqq> single issue
14:07:32 <mchua> ke4qqq: whoops, i mean how many copies of that issue?
14:07:38 <mchua> (though it's good to know this would be a one-time blast)
14:08:01 <ke4qqq> iirc it was up-front 10k, with potential recoup based on sales (they can also mitigate that with ad sales, but that's a to be negotiated thing
14:08:10 <mchua> Do we have any fallback options if we can't get an official LWN thing going but want to have Something In Print for FUDCon? Local print shop running off some stuff, self-publishing?
14:08:29 <mchua> ...wow. Okay. No idea how that compares to available budget, but that sounds like a lot to me
14:08:32 <ke4qqq> I haven't even begun exploring that.
14:08:53 <ke4qqq> me either, and to me as well - though Greg didn't seem fazed when I talked with him about that....soooo I don't know
14:08:56 <mchua> (then again, anything over $100 is still really expensive in my book; I've been on a student budget for too long.)
14:09:21 <mchua> Yeah, Max and Greg and Karsten and such would have a way better sense of scale on this, I think. I do not trust my sense of proportion on anything financial (yet; developing it).
14:10:30 <ke4qqq> LPM has done special editions for Ubuntu and opensuse in the past
14:10:44 <ke4qqq> and ubuntu developed into a quarterly magazine (Ubuntu User)
14:10:47 <mchua> ke4qqq: Ok. Actually, here's the most important question, in my mind: Why F12? Why would now be better than, say, F13 or F14? (Would it be?)
14:11:23 <mchua> Because if this is something that's F12 or nothing, then that's quite different than if we could pick it up (and possibly do it better, with more bandwidth) for a later release.
14:11:51 <ke4qqq> soooo I initially thought about F11- but couldn't get critical mass - F12 works because they have an open slot that coincides for release. We could possibly pick it up and do it better at some $pointinfuture
14:12:08 * mchua mostly thinking about Marketing bandwidth right now, which seems pretty sucked up with FI launching. Docs/News/someone else might have the capacity to take this and really run with it, in which case they should do that.
14:12:10 * mchua nods
14:12:27 <mchua> Print is a big deal, imo. I'd rather do it right at $somepointinfuture than badly now.
14:12:52 <ke4qqq> that capacity is a big deal too - and LPM even offered to supply all the content, though that seems wrong in my mind.
14:12:55 <mchua> ke4qqq: any idea how far off $somepointinfuture might be, how long it might take to get back into (reasonable) alignment with the fedora release schedule?
14:12:59 <mchua> ...wait, they did? how would that work?
14:13:17 * mchua would feel funny about a fedora magazine written by non-fedora contributors exclusively, though
14:13:17 <ke4qqq> they essentially ask us what we want to see and hire authors (like me) to write
14:13:21 <ke4qqq> me too
14:13:27 <ke4qqq> we have plenty of good writers here
14:13:33 <ke4qqq> and no need for outside help
14:13:42 <ke4qqq> it's also more expensive as they have to pay those authors
14:14:04 <ke4qqq> where as we wouldn't (I don't think) pay community authors
14:14:12 * mchua nods. Well, I could perhaps see getting one or two articles written by outsiders - a review of F(Latest-Release), for instance, so it would be more neutral-third-party.
14:14:14 <mchua> But by and large, yeah.
14:15:01 <ke4qqq> so is this enough to digest for a bit?? any chance I could hand off the liaison with Rikki to you?
14:15:52 <mchua> This is definitely enough to digest for a bit, I'm happy to take the liasoning (I should ping Rikki on a few things anyhow), and we can take the discussion to... marketing list? Does that seem like the right place?
14:16:09 <ke4qqq> yeah I think that's the right place
14:16:11 <mchua> (copying quaid and spevack for Wisdomness and Budgeting, and all)
14:16:53 <mchua> Ok, I'll send this log to list then. I think I've done all the mental digesting that I need to / can do right now, though
14:17:15 <mchua> and "when can we do this next, and what would be involved / when would that be" is where I'm headed with it
14:17:21 <ke4qqq> ok - cool - thanks for the help - I owe you $beverage at the next fudcon
14:17:27 <mchua> ke4qqq: if that sounds reasonable to you
14:17:34 <mchua> so, no F12 magazine unless a miracle occurs
14:17:39 <mchua> but maybe think about it for f13 or f14
14:17:39 <ke4qqq> certainly does to me
14:17:41 <mchua> cool.
14:18:23 * mchua ending logs, sending logs...
14:18:25 <mchua> #endmeeting