06:00:49 <pravins> #startmeeting g11n (i18n specific) 06:00:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 3 06:00:49 2016 UTC. The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 06:00:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 06:00:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n_(i18n_specific)' 06:01:03 <pravins> #meetingname g11n (i18n) 06:01:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n_(i18n)' 06:01:07 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call 06:01:07 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2016-02-03 06:01:12 <paragan> Hi 06:01:15 <epico> hi 06:01:17 <jibecfed> hi 06:01:31 <pravins> hi paragan epico jibecfed :) 06:01:45 <tagoh_> hi 06:01:52 <mfabian> Hi! 06:01:56 <pravins> hi tagoh_ mfabian :) 06:02:30 <suanand> Hi 06:02:40 <pravins> jibecfed: glad to see you in meeting :) 06:03:00 <pravins> #chair paragan epico jibecfed tagoh_ mfabian suanand 06:03:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico jibecfed mfabian paragan pravins suanand tagoh_ 06:03:16 <jibecfed> pravins: it's early, but I wanted to have a look 06:03:38 <pravins> jibecfed: good you are here, i am about to propose bit late time than this. May be 2 hr later. 06:03:52 <pravins> Will discuss in OpenFloor 06:04:13 <pravins> lets see upcoming schedule 06:04:14 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule 06:04:14 <pravins> #info 2016-02-23 Branch Fedora 24 from Rawhide (Rawhide becomes future F25) 06:04:14 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 Alpha Freeze (*) 06:04:14 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 Software String Freeze 06:04:15 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable) 06:04:17 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 Bodhi activation point 06:04:19 <pravins> #info 2016-03-22 Alpha Release 06:05:06 <pravins> Still mass build has been not started.. 06:05:35 <paragan> yes there are some issues still pending from gcc, glibc, dnf 06:06:00 <paragan> I think gcc issues should have been fixed but not sure about dnf issues 06:06:20 <pravins> aha, hope so it will not introduce one more week slip :) 06:06:29 <paragan> not sure yet 06:06:30 <pravins> already 3 week slip, if i remember correctly. 06:06:41 <pravins> thanks paragan for info. 06:06:59 <pravins> #topic New topics 06:07:03 <pravins> #info Dev Conf 2016 Meetup plan 06:07:03 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Meetup_DevConf_2016 06:07:22 <pravins> present me, noriko and zoltan are confirmed. 06:07:26 <pravins> mfabian: how about you? 06:07:58 <mfabian> pravins: I am going to devconf,checking link ... 06:08:03 <juhp> hi! 06:08:08 <pravins> hi juhp :) 06:08:13 <pravins> #chair juhp 06:08:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico jibecfed juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand tagoh_ 06:08:51 <pravins> mfabian: excellent. Will be very nice if you can talk on Glibc Subpackaging progress with me during talk :) 06:10:02 <pravins> I will be in Bruno by 6pm. Staying in Avanti Hotel 06:10:12 <mfabian> pravins: Good, I’ll be in Brno from Thu 4th 16:00 to Sun 7th 14:00. 06:10:52 <mfabian> (Times changed because Corinna became ill and cannot drive and I take the bus now). I’ll stay in Hostel Fleda. 06:11:21 <pravins> happy you are there :) 06:12:14 <pravins> jibecfed: will you be there for DevConf? just an query. 06:12:25 <jibecfed> nope, too far i'm afraid ;) 06:12:54 <pravins> no problem, may be next time we can plan better :) 06:13:19 <pravins> I am still struggling to find suitable time for meetup, so it will not conflict with other planned meeetups 06:13:29 <pravins> hoping will have some information by tomorrow. 06:13:38 <jibecfed> you gave the information at the right time, but it was just not possible for me 06:14:56 <pravins> i can understand. will make sure to communicate all updates with you all. :) 06:15:14 <jibecfed> pravins: thanks :) 06:15:26 <pravins> #info still not found suitable time for g11n meetup at DevConf2016 with avoiding parallel meetups. 06:15:33 <pravins> #info #57: Fedora 24 change planning (pravins) 06:15:33 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/57 06:16:43 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LangpacksInstallationWithRPMWeakDependencies 06:17:04 <pravins> Langpacks Installation With RPM Weak Dependencies 06:17:32 <paragan> hope to see this get approved in this week fesco meeting but not sure 06:17:39 <pravins> I earlier thought this is accepted already. 06:17:43 <paragan> as some members are at devconf 06:18:02 <pravins> aha..meeting is today itself, right? 06:18:14 <paragan> no we shift to Friday's 06:19:01 <jibecfed> yesterday Jens gave some more information on mailing list, but I thinks we should have a "todo" to explain how to contribute, somethink like what we have for appdata 06:20:13 <jibecfed> we'll see after the decision is taken (or not) 06:20:41 <juhp> jibecfed, yeah - most of the remaining work will be updating packages that have langpacks 06:21:31 <juhp> thanks for your mail asking 06:21:34 <jibecfed> juhp:a package that have language specific packages (ie : latexila) can be handle ? 06:22:04 <juhp> I am not familiar with latexila 06:22:27 <jibecfed> I mean : when it's not a language package to have interface translation, but dependencies that only exist for one language (like local text formating) 06:23:04 <jibecfed> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1294520 06:23:45 <juhp> jibecfed, ah see http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/rpminfo?rpmID=7220523 - well it could done perhaps 06:23:47 * pravins checking 06:24:28 <juhp> jibecfed, currently we are not really planning to subpackage/langpack everything - just large things... or more updating packages that already subpackaged 06:25:07 <juhp> but perhaps down the road - and sure any packager can take advantage of this now if they want too - I expect we may see more for f25 06:26:09 <pravins> aha, now understood. 06:27:05 <juhp> in theory one could langpack every package that has any translations (eg gnome-*) but the number of binary packages will be huge - I don't think it is a good idea until we have a better way of handling it within rpm/dnf/koji 06:27:21 <jibecfed> juhp, Ok, I'll be glad to help reporting issues when testing new packages, so if we understand covered use cases it would be perfect (I mean : newbie information) 06:28:07 <pravins> Right, subpackages will be huge. Definitely good topic to discuss.. 06:28:08 <juhp> jibecfed, great! Perhaps paragan can add some more details to the Change to give a bit more info 06:28:33 <paragan> may I know what more details need to be added there? 06:28:48 <juhp> jibecfed, the FPC ticket also have some details which may clarify things 06:29:08 <juhp> https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/593#comment:12 06:30:28 <paragan> juhp, I have created this page -> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Langpacks, its not yet complete but already linked to Change page. 06:30:59 <jibecfed> paragan: to explain wich uses cases are covered by the Change (and the one that are not), and how contributors can help 06:31:37 <paragan> okay I will try to add more information 06:31:41 <jibecfed> paragan: for the use cases, juhp's link can be reuse 06:32:02 <juhp> aha - yeah 06:32:15 <juhp> paragan, thanks 06:33:00 <juhp> also scope probably as jibecfed points out 06:33:03 <paragan> actually I don't know the context of this discussion, I see something has been already discussed among jibecfed and juhp 06:33:19 <juhp> paragan, not much - i18n list :) 06:33:53 <jibecfed> yep, no more context 06:33:58 <paragan> okay but I don't see any email on i18n list 06:34:27 <jibecfed> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/i18n/2016-February/002144.html 06:34:28 <paragan> ah its in ticket discussion 06:34:30 <pravins> paragan: same discussion. Basically like Libreoffice and Firefox has subapackages for translations, so langpacks can pull it. 06:34:36 <paragan> I missed that email to read yet 06:34:41 <pravins> But other packages like s-c-l and iok does not have this. 06:34:45 <juhp> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/i18n/2016-February/002143.html 06:34:45 <pravins> So how to handle it. 06:35:01 <juhp> paragan, np 06:35:06 <pravins> Overall i think, theere is good scope to improve langpacks further 06:35:32 <pravins> Even i mentioned earlier. $Yum groupinstall was installing IME's and fonts but langpacks does not do it. 06:35:47 <pravins> so even that is also good topic for improving langpacks further. 06:35:55 <pravins> But off course step by step :) 06:35:56 <juhp> pravins, +1 06:36:14 <paragan> a lot can happen further, we just need this basic 06:36:20 <paragan> implementation to get approved 06:36:21 <juhp> right 06:36:25 <paragan> and added in Fedora. 06:36:28 <pravins> paragan: +1 06:36:56 <juhp> but I think input methods will probably wait for later release 06:37:00 <jibecfed> indeed 06:37:32 <juhp> hmm they can supplement ibus :) 06:37:50 <juhp> long time since I thought about that 06:38:45 <juhp> yeah pretty cool 06:38:55 <pravins> yes :) 06:39:32 <pravins> for other proposed change 06:39:48 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Glibc_locale_subpackaging 06:40:09 <pravins> mfabian: i think we can get few more interested people for glibc subpackaging at DevConf 06:40:12 <pravins> need to highlight this. 06:40:21 <mfabian> juhp: shouldn’t imes supplement langpacks as well instead of ibus? 06:40:23 <pravins> unfortunately so many parallel talks :( 06:41:11 <paragan> mfabian, the main work of langpacks is still to be tested 06:41:21 <juhp> mfabian, yes both 06:41:23 <paragan> we have not checked yet if anaconda installation can handle langpacks 06:41:42 <paragan> only that will give 100% achievement to langpacks 06:42:15 <juhp> Live users will have to install it afterwards 06:42:23 <mfabian> juhp: if it supplements ibus, wouldn't an ime be always installed when ibus is installed, independent of the language? I.e. you get all imes installed always? 06:42:56 <juhp> mfabian, I mean ibus-kkc would supplement ibus AND langpacks-ja 06:43:58 <juhp> paragan, I think anaconda will need to be tweaked 06:44:23 <mfabian> juhp: Ah, I see. 06:44:59 <juhp> anyway let's get the Change approved first :-) 06:45:00 <paragan> right 06:45:17 <pravins> yeah, i am sure it will get approved :) 06:45:29 <pravins> I am going to add slide for this change in DevConf talk.. 06:45:36 <juhp> cool 06:46:37 <pravins> I hope, for Glibc Subpackaging we will get some boost in DevConf 06:47:23 <pravins> mfabian: dunno if Carlos O'Donell attending or now. 06:47:53 <mfabian> I’ll try to ask him. I pinged him yesterday but he was busy. 06:48:08 <pravins> nice 06:48:45 <pravins> fujiwarat: how about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ibus-fbterm_enhancement_for_ibus_1.5 06:48:57 <pravins> Does it need any attentions? 06:49:33 <fujiwarat> No, not specially. 06:49:37 <pravins> We need to update FLTG team for all these improvements 06:50:00 <pravins> so they can develop nice test cases. Specifically will be nice if they can help for Glibc subpackaing 06:50:11 <pravins> moving to next topic 06:50:12 <pravins> #info #57: Fedora 24 change planning (pravins) 06:50:12 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/57 06:50:52 * pravins again pasted same topic ;) 06:50:52 <pravins> #info #58: Prioritizing bugs for Fedora 24 release (pravins) 06:50:53 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/58 06:51:03 <pravins> This is very important part for us in Fedora 24 06:51:35 <pravins> unfortunately still no one has added any bugfixing plan to it :( 06:51:50 <pravins> but on the other hand we have so many bugs pending 06:53:29 <pravins> jibecfed: lets quickly go through process improvements you have suggested. 06:53:54 <juhp> maybe a link with all the bugs will help start? 06:54:06 <jibecfed> a few weeks ago, you created : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Fedora_24_G11N_Enhancements 06:54:47 <pravins> juhp: yeah, we have bugzilla stats on Agenda page. I will add those on ticket 06:54:51 <pravins> and send email again on list. 06:54:55 <juhp> cool 06:55:11 <pravins> jibecfed: yes, enhancements suggested are making sense. 06:55:25 <pravins> but we need to understand who are other involved groups into it. 06:55:27 <juhp> is it too late to wait for f24 to be branched? 06:56:40 <pravins> no, already couple of weeks slip. 06:56:51 <pravins> so looks ok 06:57:03 <pravins> #info List Fedora website and tell translation status : is translatable ? if yes how ? if no why ? 06:57:19 <pravins> jibecfed: how many groups are involved in it. 06:57:31 <jibecfed> i have started that item, there are about 70 websites ... 06:57:34 <pravins> Zanata, Fedora Website and L10N, right? 06:57:39 <pravins> wow, that nice. 06:57:46 <pravins> Would you like to have ticket for it? 06:58:02 <pravins> so we can track status? 06:58:13 <jibecfed> I don't know, I think I'll create a wiki page, but we need 06:58:18 <pravins> ummy, so many questions marks :( 06:58:24 <pravins> yeah, Wiki page is nice. 06:58:37 <jibecfed> to discuss with : infra team, website team, i18n team and l10n team 06:58:46 <pravins> perfect 06:59:02 <jibecfed> everithing is connected, and is sometimes a little bit messy 06:59:23 <pravins> #action pravins to create ticket for "List Fedora website and tell translation status" 06:59:39 <pravins> yeah, may be lost some process and need to do it again. 06:59:42 <jibecfed> almost no tools are created with localization in mind 06:59:53 <juhp> true 07:00:01 <jibecfed> and almost nothing is ready in infrastructure 07:00:18 <jibecfed> for fedmenu : https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedmenu/issues/13 07:00:33 <jibecfed> for fedmsg : https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedmsg-notify/issues/21 that lead to https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedmsg_meta_fedora_infrastructure/issues/345 07:01:14 <jibecfed> so I'll finish my website listing, then it will need a lot of coordination ;) 07:02:02 <jibecfed> other item : i think " Specify minimum percentage of messages translated on pull. " is done 07:02:34 <pravins> jibecfed: looks perfect. I think we will meet few people i.e. Ralph from Infra and many other key people at Devconf, will ask them to address this. 07:02:49 <pravins> Also i liked "Make sure with Docs Team we'll never have to translate such difficult changelog as Perl's one" :) 07:03:30 <pravins> info: " Refresh wiki's l10n pages for Teams " 07:03:34 <jibecfed> pravins: I think we need to have a global plan for "infra" internationalization, the work is huge 07:03:53 <jibecfed> and to do is step by step 07:04:14 <pravins> +1 07:04:23 <pravins> Refresh wiki page we can do in L10N 07:04:28 <jibecfed> for " Refresh wiki's l10n pages for Teams " => french page is done 07:04:47 <jibecfed> I can suggest other teams to do so also 07:05:30 <pravins> yeah, good to send email on list. 07:05:43 <pravins> with the update you have completed it. 07:06:48 <pravins> i think in next one week/month we should update this list with actually things we are going to do. Presently looks like 5 yrs plan ;) 07:07:04 <pravins> but most important thing is we have task written now. 07:07:22 <pravins> i hope, we can get more thing son i18n side on page soon. 07:07:56 <pravins> already we are over time 07:08:02 <pravins> lets see next topic quickly 07:08:14 <pravins> #topic New task 07:08:14 <pravins> #info #59: tracking of translation string changes (petersen) 07:08:14 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/59 07:08:29 <pravins> i think no improvement on this either :) 07:08:44 <pravins> juhp: i am going to add slide for this as well in DevConf presentation. 07:09:05 <juhp> okay 07:09:16 <juhp> I think suanand is starting to think about it too 07:09:25 <pravins> wow nice 07:09:31 <suanand> juhp, yes 07:09:40 <jibecfed> this is a zanata issue, no a i18n, isn't it ? 07:09:41 <pravins> may be i should share slides with you all 07:09:53 <juhp> pravins, sounds good 07:09:55 <pravins> will add in Google docs 07:09:59 <juhp> great 07:09:59 <suanand> pravins, we will discuss more on this 07:10:00 <jibecfed> (or zanata wish for improvement) 07:10:05 <pravins> #action pravins to share slide link with all. 07:10:19 <pravins> suanand: definitely :) 07:10:21 <juhp> jibecfed, yes 07:11:26 <pravins> aeng is off from work for few days. 07:11:31 <pravins> moving to last topic 07:11:35 <pravins> #topic Open Floor 07:11:35 <pravins> #endmeeting