15:01:48 <roshi> #startmeeting Fedora QA
15:01:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun  1 15:01:48 2015 UTC.  The chair is roshi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:56 <roshi> #topic Roll Call
15:02:01 * pschindl_wfh is here
15:02:04 <kparal> roshi: thanks
15:02:05 * tflink is here
15:02:16 <kparal> (I found the SOP now)
15:02:17 * roshi is glad his "make it up as he goes" skills at least have danofsatx fooled :p
15:02:18 * danofsatx is kinda sorta here
15:02:39 <danofsatx> oh, I'm not fooled ;)
15:03:43 <roshi> hehe
15:03:59 <roshi> #topic Previous Meeting Follow-Up
15:04:40 <roshi> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-05-04/fedora-qa.2015-05-04-15.01.html
15:04:48 <roshi> logs from last meeting ^^
15:05:10 <roshi> we had three
15:05:26 <roshi> all of which had to do with adam :)
15:05:38 <roshi> anyone have any info on FCoE testing?
15:05:40 <kparal> I think the only one relevant is the council thing
15:05:47 <kparal> which is a next topic
15:05:56 <kparal> roshi: we released, so...
15:06:03 <kparal> no longer needed :)
15:06:11 <roshi> I was being facetious :p
15:06:16 <kparal> I'm afraid nobody tested it
15:06:35 <roshi> #topic Council Report
15:06:40 <danofsatx> I *may* be able to secure a resource that can do the FCoE testing for F23+
15:06:58 <danofsatx> he's in the process of moving, so was unavailable for F22
15:07:05 <roshi> looks like danofsatx is handling the report - you ready for it danofsatx ?
15:07:13 <roshi> that'd be good for F23
15:07:32 <danofsatx> actually, I wanted to address that. Due to recent....events....I am unable to perform the required research for this report.
15:07:43 <kparal> so adamw volunteered to do the council report, but the last action item says danofsatx would do it, so I'm a bit confused
15:07:57 <kparal> adamw already wrote up some points, quite a lot of them, into the test list
15:08:00 <tflink> when is it?
15:08:05 <danofsatx> June 8th
15:08:06 <kparal> Jun 8
15:08:08 <tflink> when is the report due?
15:08:13 <danofsatx> June 8th
15:08:18 <tflink> so we need to find someone else to do it :)
15:08:19 <kparal> it will be a teleconference over google hangouts, it seems
15:08:35 <tflink> I assume it'll be the same as the last 2 or so council meetings
15:09:08 <kparal> I was willing to step up for adam/danofsatx for an irc conference, I'm not that thrilled about a video conference, I don't enjoy appearing in public :)
15:09:25 <kparal> but lot of info should be already written up by adam
15:09:32 <roshi> hangouts is an odd choice to me...
15:09:43 <kparal> if somebody is willing to go there, I'll be happy to help the person finalize the notes
15:09:55 * tflink can do it if needed
15:10:36 * danofsatx votes for sgallagh - he did fine last week ;)
15:11:08 * satellit late listening
15:11:14 <roshi> does anybody *want* to do it, or is everyone pretty much "if needed?"
15:11:26 <kparal> I believe it's the latter :)
15:11:38 <sgallagh> danofsatx: Not volunteering, thanks
15:11:39 <tflink> i suspect that I'll have to get out the windows box for using hangouts, though :-/
15:11:43 <roshi> so do I
15:11:52 <kparal> it should work on linux
15:11:53 <roshi> it works well enough in chrome
15:12:02 <roshi> haven't tried firefox with it
15:12:02 <kparal> there's a plugin for firefox, or plugin-less in chrome
15:12:05 * tflink doesn't have chrome on any of his machines
15:12:14 <danofsatx> I wanted to do it, but circumstances have drastically changed
15:12:16 <tflink> ah, didn't know it worked with firefox now
15:12:26 <roshi> chrome in a docker container manages to hold it's RAM gobbling in check
15:12:28 <tflink> danofsatx: no worries, stuff happens :)
15:13:27 <tflink> I've said that I'd do it - any other reluctant volunteer-ish people?
15:13:47 <tflink> it looks like I need to fill in some holes in adam's email anyways
15:14:33 <roshi> well, I was going to say I can do it if needed
15:14:47 <roshi> but I'm so far back in the queue now I didn't see a reason to :p
15:14:55 <kparal> we can draw matches or something :)
15:15:02 <tflink> roshi: I'm not going to fight you for it :-P
15:15:08 <roshi> nor I :)
15:15:23 <roshi> I have a face for radio - which is why I like IRC :p
15:15:32 <kparal> everybody loves meetings and bureaucracy, it seems
15:16:07 <kparal> I don't think that video is necessary, btw. mainly audio matters, I think
15:16:11 <roshi> tbh I think it's the video bit :p
15:16:14 <roshi> yeah
15:16:30 <tflink> i think the idea is to make the meetings more accessible to folks who don't like text-only
15:16:47 <kparal> and shorter, probably
15:17:29 * tflink proposes that kparal, roshi and tflink draw straws/fight over who's doing the presentation outside of the meeting
15:17:41 <roshi> works for me
15:17:51 <kparal> ok
15:17:56 <tflink> unless I missed another reluctant person
15:18:08 <kparal> quake tournament?
15:18:09 <roshi> hehe
15:18:18 * pingou put back the pop-corn to the kitchen
15:18:31 <roshi> well, onto the open floor then :)
15:18:35 <pingou> \ó/
15:18:36 <roshi> #topic Open Floor
15:18:47 <roshi> anyone have something for open floor?
15:19:04 <kparal> just a heads up, fedup seems to be deprecated for F23, according to devel@ list
15:19:13 <tflink> other than the deathmatch over presenting to the council?
15:19:14 <kparal> might be of interested to people around here
15:19:15 * tflink ducks
15:19:39 <satellit> how do we get to f23 for testing? no fedup yet?
15:19:43 <tflink> i need to catch up on that thread, are there any concrete plans for fedup's replacement?
15:19:54 <kparal> tflink: systemd's offline updates
15:20:32 <kparal> wwoods was short in the description, but he claims it will be much simpler than the current solution
15:20:33 <tflink> at the very least, I'd like to see that transition work better from a testing POV than the preupgrade->fedup transition
15:20:34 <roshi> I hate offline updates
15:20:49 <tflink> but that wouldn't take much
15:21:05 <pingou> tflink: there is already a dnf plugin
15:21:28 <pingou> might be worth testing, but if it's also used in gnome-applications then that's another path to test
15:21:42 <tflink> then we're already in better shape - IIRC, fedup wasn't even functioning correctly until after F18 beta freeze
15:22:00 <kparal> and another interesting news, liveusb-creator gets a new facelift. I already commented on devel@ that it also needs to change the plumbing (dd mode by default, instead of cp mode) it they really want to fix the most problematic issues
15:22:06 <wwoods> and the fedup DNF plugin already works: https://github.com/wgwoods/dnf-plugin-fedup
15:23:21 <wwoods> the conversation with the DNF maintainers makes it sound like they'd prefer to implement the Offline Updates spec in DNF (and/or dnf-plugins-core) itself
15:23:22 <tflink> sounds like a good thing to start poking at :)
15:23:23 <kparal> wwoods: welcome. does that mean that we'll be able now to easily do something like distro-sync?
15:23:35 <wwoods> kparal: yes. already supported by fedup-dnf-plugin
15:24:15 <kparal> wwoods: great. and will it be performed by dnf, instead of core rpm, right? so that information like user-installed leaf packages will not be lost on upgrade
15:24:20 <wwoods> kparal: correct
15:24:24 <kparal> awesome news
15:24:28 <kparal> what's the catch?
15:24:36 <pingou> kparal: it works ;-)
15:24:40 <roshi> there's always a catch...
15:25:20 <wwoods> the catch? nothing really important - we're throwing out the upgrade.img
15:26:00 <kparal> that seems like another benefit. it made testing more difficult
15:26:00 <wwoods> so things that were theoretically possible to do during the upgrade (like, say, filesystem migrations) aren't possible *before* the upgrade
15:26:08 <wwoods> but we never did them that way
15:26:50 <wwoods> the only thing we did do like that was /usrmove, and that got handled by a dracut scriptlet in the post-upgrade system
15:27:23 <kparal> ok, sounds great, then
15:27:36 <tflink> agreed, sound good to me
15:27:37 <wwoods> so yeah, we've learned a bunch of lessons about how to do upgrade - fedup was designed to work like anaconda used to, and it turns out we inherited a lot of its problems
15:27:58 <wwoods> so fedup2 (or whatever you want to call it) throws away the unnecessary complexity
15:28:20 <tflink> do we want to get someone started on looking at the upgrade testcases?
15:28:42 <tflink> rather, is someone interested in starting to look at them?
15:29:04 * danofsatx isn't taking on any action items at this time
15:29:30 <pingou> wwoods: btw, is the dnf plugin packaged already?
15:29:34 * tflink figures that the earlier we look at it, the earlier we find any potential problems and we aren't dealing with last-minute crap during F23 beta
15:29:56 <wwoods> pingou: no, because I'm not certain that plugin will be the final form
15:30:10 <wwoods> it might instead be in upstream dnf-plugins-core, or upstream DNF itself
15:30:10 <roshi> +1 for testing early
15:30:13 <pingou> wwoods: could be merged into dnf-* later with a Provides:
15:30:50 <wwoods> but it will definitely work the same way
15:33:29 <wwoods> pingou: nah. "git clone ... ; sudo make install ; sudo systemctl enable fedup-system-upgrade.service" is fine for a pre-alpha prototype
15:34:17 <pingou> wwoods: might do that :)
15:34:25 <roshi> #info fedup will be depreciated in F23
15:34:34 <wwoods> pingou: also the plymouth display stuff doesn't work without patching DNF, so I'm not going to package something that can't work correctly
15:34:47 <roshi> #info Upgrades will be handled by a plugin in DNF
15:34:51 <roshi> ^^ that sound right?
15:34:53 <pingou> wwoods: good point
15:35:13 <wwoods> roshi: sure, DNF plugin or extension
15:35:39 <roshi> #undo
15:35:39 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by roshi at 15:34:47 : Upgrades will be handled by a plugin in DNF
15:35:46 <roshi> #info Upgrades will be handled by a plugin in DNF or an extension
15:36:22 <wwoods> really it's more like: DNF is probably going to get support for handling Offline Updates, and the new fedup will use that to do system upgrades
15:36:56 <roshi> well, we can test it when there's something ready for us to test
15:37:00 <wwoods> indeed
15:37:07 <roshi> :)
15:37:22 <roshi> thanks for the info wwoods
15:37:35 <wwoods> sure! just ask if you have other questions
15:38:00 <roshi> anyone have anything else on F23 upgrades or for Open Floor?
15:38:06 <roshi> or should I set the fuse?
15:38:36 <kparal> nothing else here
15:39:03 * roshi sets the fuse
15:39:04 <roshi> 3...
15:41:55 <roshi> 2...
15:42:00 <roshi> 1...
15:42:04 <roshi> thanks for coming folks!
15:42:07 <roshi> #endmeeting