06:00:31 <pravins> #startmeeting i18n
06:00:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 10 06:00:31 2014 UTC.  The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:00:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:00:35 <pravins> #meetingname i18n
06:00:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:00:42 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call
06:01:08 <paragan> Hi
06:01:14 <pravins> who else here for meeting..
06:01:16 <shilpa_> hi
06:01:18 <anish__> Hi
06:01:30 <pravins> hi anish__ paragan and shilpa :)
06:01:38 <mfabian> Hi!
06:01:53 <juhp> hi
06:01:54 <fujiwarat> hi
06:02:14 <epico> hi
06:02:19 <ueno> hi
06:02:47 <pravins> hi mfabian juhp fujiwarat epico ueno :)
06:03:21 * pravins looking for tagoh_
06:03:27 <pravins> almost all here.. lets start
06:03:34 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2014-12-10
06:03:53 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:03:53 <pravins> #info 2014-11-04	Beta Release
06:03:53 <pravins> #info 2014-11-18 [https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1364 Fesco] 	Final Freeze (Former Final Change Deadline)
06:03:53 <pravins> #info 2014-12-09 	Fedora 21 Final Release
06:04:06 <tagoh_> hi
06:04:12 <pravins> hi tagoh_ :)
06:04:44 <pravins> as you know Fedora 21 released yesterday.
06:04:58 <juhp> yes!
06:05:03 <pravins> Mathew Miller email announcement link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/205205.html
06:05:27 <pravins> We got nice reply in social media for Fedora.
06:05:33 <pravins> Fedora 21 Arrives in Three Different Versions
06:05:33 <pravins> http://www.maximumpc.com/fedora_21_arrives_three_different_versions_2014
06:05:41 <pravins> First Look: Fedora 21 has something for everyone
06:05:41 <pravins> http://www.itworld.com/article/2857439/first-look-fedora-21-has-something-for-everyone.html
06:05:48 <pravins> Fedora 21 Linux-based operating system released
06:05:48 <pravins> http://liliputing.com/2014/12/fedora-21-linux-based-operating-system-released.html
06:05:53 <pravins> Fedora's Anaconda installer: A hands-on screenshot walkthrough
06:05:53 <pravins> http://www.zdnet.com/article/hands-on-a-screenshot-walk-though-fedoras-anaconda/
06:05:58 <pravins> Fedora 21: Worth the wait
06:05:58 <pravins> http://www.zdnet.com/article/fedora-21-ready-for-release/
06:06:02 <pravins> Fedora 21 freigegeben
06:06:03 <pravins> http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/21825/fedora-21-freigegeben.html
06:06:07 <pravins> Fedora 21 Release Review: An Impressive Developer Workstation
06:06:07 <pravins> http://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/798173-fedora-21-release-review-an-impressive-developer-workstation
06:06:11 <pravins> Fedora 21 Retools Linux for Servers
06:06:11 <pravins> http://www.serverwatch.com/server-news/fedora-21-retools-linux-for-servers.html
06:07:05 <pravins> Do go through these articles and also help to share news.
06:08:42 <pravins> If you feel something not went very well or something was very good during Fedora 21 cycle
06:09:03 <pravins> do provide feedback on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_21_Retrospective  This is right time.
06:09:17 <juhp> aha
06:11:25 * pravins only think we need more involvement in Testing (at least from my end :))
06:12:00 <pravins> tagoh_: do you feel anything else we missed in Fedora 21 release?
06:12:54 <tagoh_> just encountered the upgrading path issue on zinnia. otherwise looks good at this moment; not yet fully tested GA though
06:13:18 <tagoh_> .bug 1172463
06:13:20 <zodbot> tagoh_: Bug 1172463 Upgrading path issue to f21 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1172463
06:14:12 <pravins> thanks tagoh_ for reporting same issue.
06:14:44 <pravins> i think we should also sometime try to do testing for upgrading. It can help us to catch these kind of issue early.
06:14:52 <pravins> mostly we do testing with fresh install.
06:15:00 <tagoh_> good idea
06:15:27 <juhp> tagoh_, so one has to uninstall zinnia?
06:15:54 * epico will take this bug.
06:16:00 <juhp> thanks
06:16:02 <tagoh_> juhp: and reinstall after upgrading. yes, that is a workaround so far.
06:16:12 <juhp> I see
06:16:25 <pravins> epico: great.
06:16:36 <epico> sorry for the mistake...
06:17:19 <pravins> no problem, it happens :)
06:17:27 <pravins> lets move for next topic.
06:17:30 <pravins> #topic Outstanding topic
06:17:34 <pravins> #info #36: gnome redesign plans for control-center Region and Languages (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:17:37 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/36
06:18:24 <pravins> one good thing to track for Fedora 22 release. what you says?
06:19:44 * juhp reads the log
06:19:53 <mfabian> If anybody has more ideas, we should tell Rui and Allan.
06:19:54 <tagoh_> what's current plan for that?
06:19:58 <pravins> mfabian: has already posted all meeting log on ticket #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/36
06:20:28 <anish__> mfabian, I will send email regarding removing Indian xkb layouts
06:21:05 <mfabian> anish__: I promised to work on that to move them  into “extras” but I did not yet find time to do it.
06:22:09 <anish__> mfabian, its okay but before removing we need to reach out audiences
06:22:22 <mfabian> I think moving them into /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev.extras.xml is a good idea, then they will not be listed by default anymore.
06:22:32 <pravins> anish__: do you means announcing plan to mailing list?
06:22:43 <anish__> pravins, yeah
06:23:21 <pravins> agree. At least changes should not come as a surprise to users :)
06:23:53 * pravins thinks this is good candidate for Fedora 22 change. off course Gnome should agree for same.
06:24:30 <pravins> or we can include gnome in change proposal.
06:24:40 <pravins> Change proposal will make things more clear.
06:24:48 <pravins> pros/cons etc.
06:27:46 * pravins commented on ticket.
06:27:57 <tagoh_> negotiation to the xkb maintainer too
06:28:57 <pravins> tagoh_: valid point. !!
06:30:45 <pravins> lets move ahead. Please put your comment/suggestion if any other on ticket.
06:30:53 <pravins> https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/36
06:31:01 <pravins> #topic Outstanding task
06:31:04 <pravins> #info #35: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N cleanup (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:31:07 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/35
06:31:26 <pravins> http://piratepad.net/i18nchanges  These are planned change.
06:31:34 <pravins> Also juhp pointed out I18n pages with https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=I18N&fulltext=Search
06:31:40 <juhp> mfabian, +1
06:34:12 <pravins> I was thinking how can we make https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Bugs more upto date.
06:35:26 <pravins> At one end we get latest dashboard with meeting agenda page
06:35:47 <pravins> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2014-12-10
06:36:21 <tagoh_> keep up-to-date on wiki sounds not a good idea though. it takes more cost to maintain.
06:36:53 <pravins> agree, in that case point it to meeting-agenda page?
06:37:25 <pravins> or may be update with release.?
06:37:50 <juhp> well maybe the page can be updated by a script (output)?
06:38:21 <tagoh_> who's customer for that page? we could store the query parameters on bugzilla and use it perhaps?
06:38:40 <tagoh_> if it's just for a link to access.
06:39:45 <pravins> tagoh_: agree with you. Might be we can remove Bugs page.
06:40:31 <pravins> and write there for bugs dashboard, hit bugzilla query parameters or visit last meeting agenda page.
06:41:08 <juhp> mfabian, maybe it is good to summarize the discussion with rtcm in the ticket?
06:41:47 <pravins> juhp: exactly, i was looking if there any action point mentioned.
06:42:31 <pravins> for this ticket rather than scheduling meeting
06:42:42 <mfabian> Action point for me is moving the Indian keyboard layouts  to extras.
06:42:42 <pravins> one can simply take some page to themselves http://piratepad.net/i18nchanges
06:42:55 <pravins> and improve before next meeting
06:43:30 <pravins> #action Assign wiki cleanup pages from http://piratepad.net/i18nchanges and improve.
06:44:18 <paragan> okay
06:44:39 <pravins> thanks paragan
06:44:40 <pravins> #topic New topics
06:44:40 <pravins> #info #39: Bugs corner (pravins)
06:44:40 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/39
06:44:55 <pravins> any specific bug to discuss today?
06:47:08 <pravins> we have one more ticket
06:47:22 <pravins> so lets move ahead. meanwhile if you remember any bug please point out.
06:47:23 <pravins> #info #40: Fedora 22 planning (pravins)
06:47:23 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/40
06:48:03 <pravins> Fedora 21 is out time to start thinking for Fedora 22 changes.
06:48:10 <pravins> schedule for F22 is out. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/22/Schedule
06:48:12 <paragan> I will submit Change for dnf-langpacks feature
06:48:30 <pravins> paragan: great.
06:48:48 <pravins> in between one get badge as well for accepted changes :)
06:48:53 <pravins> 2015-01-20 	Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (System Wide Changes)
06:49:13 <pravins> mfabian: how about submitting glibc unicode 7.0 update as a change.
06:50:04 <mfabian> pravins: Is that worth submitting  as a change? It is only such a small thing under the hood. Nobody will notice  ☹
06:50:07 <juhp> maybe we could work with Carlos also on glibc locales handling Change?
06:50:23 <tagoh_> hmm, was thinking to propose man-pages-l10n for f22 but the schedule seems tight to work on. might be better postponing to f22+.
06:50:38 <pravins> mfabian: i dont think so it is small thing :)
06:50:47 <mfabian> (I am fixing the pylint warnings at the moment, annoying pedantic nonsense ...)
06:50:52 <pravins> it is being updated after 5 years
06:51:03 <epico> mfabian: on release note?
06:51:09 <pravins> also there is significant changes has been done considering backward compatibility.
06:52:33 <pravins> juhp: yes.
06:53:44 <juhp> anyway hopefully the changes will land in F22, right?
06:53:57 <pravins> juhp: glibc next release is planned in Feb.
06:54:04 <juhp> good
06:54:40 <pravins> in change we can make glibc maintainer also one of the stakeholder, If will help us to get changes done in released timeline.
06:54:42 <juhp> pravins, yeah I think it is okay as a Change though it is more an upstream thing
06:54:43 <mfabian> When is Fedora 22 planned?
06:55:01 <juhp> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/22/Schedule
06:55:37 <pravins> fujiwarat: ueno epico are you planning for any specific change for Fedora 22
06:56:05 <pravins> one more thing we should note that. With Fedora.next we are came into Era where rather than simply pulling upstream tarball. Now we can actually think for some user oriented feature and start development of those for particular product.
06:56:07 <epico> not currently.
06:56:38 <juhp> pravins, true
06:57:57 <pravins> time is less though :(
06:58:22 <pravins> almost no activities happen in Dec last and Jan first week.
06:58:42 <pravins> so we have only 3 weeks for submitting changes.
06:59:00 <fujiwarat> Probably ibus will have some bug fixes but not features.
06:59:52 <pravins> fujiwarat: agree that is tricky.
07:00:20 <pravins> fujiwarat: if you are looking for any major bug fixes good to mention on https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/40
07:01:53 <pravins> lets move on.
07:02:26 <pravins> tagoh_: sure.
07:02:34 <pravins> #topic Open Floor
07:02:44 <pravins> i have couple of things in open floor
07:02:51 <pravins> 1. Fudcon bids
07:03:06 <pravins> for Fudcon 2015 two bids are submitted.
07:03:22 <pravins> a. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_PhnomPenh_2015  (Planned date 2nd - 5th October 2015)
07:03:35 <pravins> b. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Pune_2015 (Time: 26 - 28 June 2015)
07:03:58 <pravins> do provide your feedback if possible
07:04:05 <juhp> oh
07:05:17 <epico> is it possible to upgrade Fedora 21 with an ISO file?
07:05:50 <pravins> epico: i saw there is option in fedup
07:05:58 <pravins> with --iso
07:06:08 <pravins> but i have not tried it. :(
07:06:17 <epico> yes, but only Server have an ISO and without gnome packages...
07:06:37 <pravins> ohh
07:06:43 <epico> others seems live iso...
07:07:33 * epico just not find the ISO file with gnome packages...
07:08:48 <pravins> everything does not has ISO http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/21/Everything/x86_64/os/
07:08:48 <juhp> hmm I suppose dvd could be attractive if one has to upgrade multiple machines
07:09:02 <juhp> epico, what is the use-case? :)
07:09:35 <epico> I plan to upgrade two machines, to save some bandwidth.
07:09:38 <juhp> of course even dvd only contains a subset of fedora
07:09:45 <epico> right
07:10:00 <tagoh_> pravins: it's not new. I think we've never composed iso for everything
07:10:31 <juhp> epico, might depend on how much you have installed - packages could still be smaller than dvd for 2 machines :)
07:10:52 * epico maybe have to use fedup --network 21.
07:10:58 <tagoh_> or using proxy might helps?
07:11:17 <juhp> okay I never liked dvd much but I know many people tended to use them
07:11:18 <tagoh_> depends on the cache size on proxy though
07:11:19 <pravins> tagoh_: not noticed earlier :)
07:11:39 <epico> juhp, most of installed packages is from Fedora 20 DVD iso...
07:11:54 <juhp> ok
07:11:59 <epico> tagoh_, thanks :)
07:12:01 <pravins> One more thing i wanted to discuss.
07:12:13 <pravins> how do you find to have Fedora i18n meeting bi-weekly
07:12:13 <juhp> fedup doesn't support deltarpm btw?
07:12:51 <pravins> off course we can schedule meeting in between if required or during peak release schedule time.
07:14:02 <anish__> pravins, looks okay
07:14:17 <pravins> dunno whether we tried this earlier sometime?
07:14:35 <juhp> sounds okay to me - I guess my only concern would be having enough discussions around F22 Changes
07:14:51 <epico> okay for me.
07:15:42 <tagoh_> any way to have the effective meetings would be good
07:16:17 <pravins> tagoh_: exactly
07:16:35 <juhp> I guess we may miss one or two meetings around the end of the year
07:16:42 <pravins> juhp: we can have two consecutive meeting on 7th and 14 jan (20th is change submission deadline)
07:16:50 <juhp> sounds good
07:18:09 <juhp> so next meeting 24th?
07:18:17 <pravins> important point to note here, we can schedule meeting in between as per requirement.
07:18:21 <juhp> Dec
07:18:27 <juhp> right
07:18:47 <pravins> and in meeting scheduled as per requirement we can target on particular ticket.
07:19:12 <pravins> IMHO it will make that meeting more effective
07:19:23 <juhp> yes
07:20:14 <pravins> if we dont have any urgent things lets have next meeting on 24th
07:21:06 <pravins> we almost done.
07:21:14 <pravins> lets close meeting in couple of minutes.
07:22:56 <pravins> #endmeeting