21:00:27 <sesivany_> #startmeeting EMEA ambassadors 2014-10-29
21:00:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 29 21:00:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is sesivany_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:00:29 <sesivany_> #meetingname emea ambassadors
21:00:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'emea_ambassadors'
21:00:33 <sesivany_> #topic Roll Call
21:00:38 <fale> .fasinfo fale
21:00:39 <zodbot> fale: User: fale, Name: Fabio Alessandro Locati, email: fabiolocati@gmail.com, Creation: 2010-01-09, IRC Nick: fale, Timezone: Europe/Rome, Locale: it, GPG key ID: C09A145F, Status: active
21:00:41 <sesivany_> second attempt :)
21:00:42 <zodbot> fale: Approved Groups: ambassadors fedorabugs packager cla_fedora cla_done cla_fpca
21:00:53 <sesivany_> .fas eischmann
21:00:54 <zodbot> sesivany_: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
21:01:08 <gnokii> .fas gnokii
21:01:10 <zodbot> gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de>
21:01:26 <Levex> .fas Levex
21:01:27 <zodbot> Levex: levex 'Levente Kurusa' <levex@linux.com>
21:01:40 <kmf> .fas kmf
21:01:42 <zodbot> kmf: kmf 'Karl Fischer' <kmf@fischer.org.za> - kmfcandu 'Kyle Fletcher' <kyle.fletcher@candu.com>
21:01:44 <heffer> .fasinfo heffer
21:01:45 <zodbot> heffer: User: heffer, Name: Felix Kaechele, email: felix@fetzig.org, Creation: 2008-07-04, IRC Nick: heffer, Timezone: Europe/Berlin, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 2C2DD96B, Status: active
21:01:48 <zodbot> heffer: Approved Groups: cla_fedora cla_done packager fedorabugs ambassadors cvsl10n cla_fpca
21:01:54 <lupinix> .fasinfo lupinix
21:02:00 <zodbot> lupinix: User: lupinix, Name: Christian Dersch, email: chrisdersch@gmail.com, Creation: 2011-11-09, IRC Nick: lupinix, Timezone: Europe/Berlin, Locale: de, GPG key ID: 0xFC97D448, Status: active
21:02:03 <zodbot> lupinix: Approved Groups: ambassadors packager fedorabugs cla_fpca cla_done
21:02:55 <rsc> .fasinfo robert
21:02:56 <zodbot> rsc: User: robert, Name: Robert Scheck, email: redhat@linuxnetz.de, Creation: 2005-04-18, IRC Nick: rsc, Timezone: Europe/Berlin, Locale: en, GPG key ID: CE3E1F56, Status: active
21:02:59 <zodbot> rsc: Approved Groups: aarch64 sysadmin sysadmin-web cla_done web fedorabugs packager @ambassadors cla_fedora provenpackager sysadmin-test gitfedora-web gitfama +gitsecurity-spin proventesters cla_fpca campusambassadors
21:03:18 <mhroncok> .fas churchyard
21:03:18 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
21:03:55 <sesivany_> let's wait a couple of minutes for others to show up.
21:04:26 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
21:04:28 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
21:04:43 * sesivany_ was here one hour earlier, became a victim of what he warned everyone about - time change :)
21:05:11 * gnokii sesivany_ serves drinks during waiting time
21:05:22 <robyduck> gnokii: +1
21:06:04 <sesivany_> ok, let's start.
21:06:14 <sesivany_> #topic Announcements
21:06:42 <sesivany_> any announcements?
21:07:14 <sesivany_> there is one big announcement that has an impact on us, ambassadors.
21:07:42 <sesivany_> FAmSCo will probably be dissolved and FOSCo created.
21:07:56 <sesivany_> Fedora Outreach Steering Committee
21:08:19 <sesivany_> it should oversee other outreach teams, too: design, marketing,...
21:08:46 <sesivany_> from what I've seen people agree with that.
21:08:55 <sesivany_> we need more cooperation between the teams.
21:09:39 <sesivany_> #info FAmSCo will probably be dissolved and replaced by Fedora Outreach Steering Committee which will also oversee other outreach teams - design, marketing,...
21:10:06 <sesivany_> mattdm also created a new mailing list to discuss it.
21:10:27 <sesivany_> I think the announcement went to the ambassadors mailing list.
21:10:47 <sesivany_> another announcement is yet another slip of Fedora 21.
21:11:04 <sesivany_> the release date is now Dec 9th.
21:11:17 <heffer> wow :)
21:11:30 <sesivany_> #info Fedora 21 has slipped again, the release date is now Dec 9th.
21:12:05 <rsc> Fedora release parties during Christmas time?
21:12:23 <robyduck> rsc: more january I guess
21:12:46 * FranciscoD runs in late
21:12:49 <FranciscoD> sorry
21:12:49 <fale> rsc: CDs/DVDs will not be ready for Christmas, I guess
21:12:58 <sesivany_> rsc: looks like, but if Fedora 21 slips one more time, then it will probably be postponed to January, it'd be too close to Christmas holidays.
21:13:16 <robyduck> oh we have also FranciscoD migrated to EMEA :)
21:13:21 <FranciscoD> :D
21:13:45 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: there was a bug that made prevented media from working on cd/dvds, any idea if that was fixed?
21:13:53 * FranciscoD remembers adamw mentioning something
21:13:55 <sesivany_> DVD production usually takes 7-10 days plus a few days for shipping to your destination, so expect it to reach you in 2 weeks after the release.
21:14:18 <adamw> FranciscoD: it's fixed for a while now.
21:14:25 <fale> sesivany_: probably close to Xmas shipment will take long
21:14:30 <sesivany_> adamw: good to hear
21:14:30 <FranciscoD> Good to know. Thanks adamw :)
21:14:58 <sesivany_> heffer: I think he should announce the emea fad now, it's quite important.
21:15:06 <sesivany_> s/he/we
21:15:21 <heffer> It is
21:15:57 <heffer> Unfortunately it's also not exactly fixed yet because there obviously is some discussion about that going on.
21:16:12 <heffer> But:
21:16:18 <sesivany_> heffer: not fixed in what meaning?
21:16:50 <heffer> The venue isn't booked yet because it would require me making a 25% down payment
21:17:03 <heffer> We have all information up here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Rheinland_2014
21:17:35 <sesivany_> some context: it's our #1 event for planning activities, events, and budget in EMEA.
21:17:44 <heffer> Please add yourself if you plan on coming. The date is the 5-7 December (first Weekend of December)
21:17:59 <fale> heffer: me and frafra plan to come
21:18:10 <sesivany_> if you want to have a say in what we should do and how to spend money in this region, you should attend.
21:18:28 <heffer> If you add yourself please make sure that you are definitely able to come as it's not so far away and places are somewhat limited
21:18:58 <heffer> The venue is a very nice little artist "colony" on the river Rhein in Leverkusen, Germany
21:19:16 <sesivany_> #info Our most important planning event is getting closer. If you want to come, please add yourself ASAP: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Rheinland_2014
21:19:43 <heffer> it has a nice art gallery inside and lots of crazy animals in the courtyard :D
21:20:24 <heffer> such as Guineafowls. If you hate Guineafowls then don't come :P
21:20:33 <heffer> Just joking. But the Guineafowls are for real
21:20:53 <sesivany_> We hope to bring all ambassadors who want to attend, if the interest exceeds our budget limits we'll prioritize ambassadors based on their activity in the past.
21:21:24 <heffer> I visited it last week and it's a great place for a productive and focussed meeting
21:21:28 <heffer> so far from my side
21:22:10 <sesivany_> heffer: it's also worth noting that you can use airport either in Dusseldorf or Cologne.
21:22:23 <sesivany_> the place is somewhere in between.
21:22:46 <heffer> yes, almost right in the middle between CGN and DUS
21:23:24 <heffer> cheap flights are usually available even on shorter notice
21:23:43 <sesivany_> #info If you're going to add youself for the EMEA FAD, please specify how much you need for travel expenses. Note you can fly either to Dusseldorf or Cologne, the place in between.
21:24:00 <sesivany_> ok, any other announcements?
21:24:16 <mhroncok> sesivany_: your cost are from Prague or Vienna? or even something different?
21:24:20 <heffer> OT: Gerold is trying to joing but his IP seems to be banned. I'm trying to help him right now
21:24:48 <sesivany_> sesivany_: there is a cheap flight with German Wings from Prague to Cologne, but let's discuss it off the meeting.
21:24:58 <sesivany_> heffer: ok
21:25:03 <mhroncok> heffer: is the webchat also banning him?
21:25:11 <heffer> i just sent him the link
21:25:14 <heffer> lets see
21:25:38 <sesivany_> heffer: we can discuss it more in the Events topic, we've said what we needed to say.
21:25:47 <sesivany_> #topic Requests
21:25:57 * sesivany_ is checking the trac...
21:26:24 <sesivany_> I did quite a clearance in the trac last week.
21:26:51 <sesivany_> reduced it down to 13 open tickets.
21:26:54 <sesivany_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/report/1
21:27:48 <geroldka> .fas geroldka
21:27:49 <zodbot> geroldka: geroldka 'Gerold Kassube' <gerold@lugd.org>
21:28:05 <sesivany_> we gave one polo shirt to APAC, one ambassador needed XL and it's apparently an extra, extra size they don't normally produce there :)
21:28:34 <sesivany_> gnokii will bring it there.
21:28:39 <mhroncok> :)
21:29:50 <sesivany_> #info Ticket #425 - jsimon going to nullcon in India
21:30:00 <sesivany_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/425
21:30:32 <sesivany_> it's a sizable amount of money, but we can afford it because we've been underspending in this fiscal year.
21:30:42 <sesivany_> and above all jsimon deserves it.
21:30:51 <gnokii> +1
21:30:55 <sesivany_> because he's been our credit card holder for many years.
21:31:05 <sesivany_> it's not an easy and appealing job.
21:31:17 <sesivany_> a lot of administration and responsibility.
21:31:34 <sesivany_> moreover he'll represent Fedora there.
21:31:37 <heffer> definitely supporting this
21:31:45 <robyduck> sesivany_: jsimon is also doing a lot for the countries in Asia, so he deserved it definitely
21:31:46 <sesivany_> +1 from me.
21:31:47 <rsc> Joerg does an awesome job for a lot of years with a lot of outcome.
21:31:49 <mhroncok> +1
21:31:49 <robyduck> +1
21:32:11 <fale> +1
21:32:38 <sesivany_> #agreed Ticket #425 has been approved.
21:32:44 <sesivany_> thanks for voting.
21:32:54 <kmf> +1
21:33:06 <geroldka> +1
21:33:14 <lupinix> +1
21:33:26 <sesivany_> one more ticket to discuss...
21:33:49 <sesivany_> #topic Ticket #426 - Production of Fedora stickers
21:33:56 <sesivany_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/426
21:34:04 <sesivany_> this one comes from me.
21:34:28 <sesivany_> I'd like to hear some feedback from you.
21:34:32 <robyduck> just in time to produce them for release parties
21:34:55 <sesivany_> it's mostly about stickers of products gnokii designed.
21:35:16 <mhroncok> what's the size of the stickers?
21:35:17 <lupinix> nice design gnokii :)
21:35:27 <sesivany_> do you think the distribution is correct? 3000 for workstation, 1000 for server, 500 for cloud?
21:35:52 <sesivany_> gnokii: what was the size? like 10cm long?
21:35:54 <robyduck> yes, maybe still too much for server
21:36:07 <mhroncok> how do you put a sticker on a cloud?
21:36:08 <lupinix> robyduck: +1
21:36:27 <fale> robyduck: +1
21:36:32 <gnokii> sesivany_: they are different length, have to look for the exact one but we can make them as all on one
21:36:35 <rsc> mhroncok: are the stickers meant to be put on the device? They are quite large...
21:36:47 <fale> also mhroncok's comment makes sense
21:36:55 <Levex> sesivany_: 3000 of case badges of which product?
21:36:59 <mhroncok> I've meant those https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/attachment/ticket/338/case-badge.png
21:37:06 <heffer> +1 for the design -1 for the product variations. don't make sense to me
21:37:13 <sesivany_> mhroncok: when we discussed it I wanted to have them as big as the stickers on the open source project sticker sheet of Red Hat we used to have.
21:37:31 <gnokii> rsc: 102mm is the longest but the sticker is only 3.5cm high
21:37:38 <mhroncok> sesivany_: the cirles with tux, gimp, gnome, etc?
21:37:44 <sesivany_> Levex: no, in total, we need to discuss of how much of each we want, I didn't dare to guess.
21:37:45 <rsc> heffer: +1
21:37:45 <lupinix> i think sticker make sense only for workstation
21:38:05 <sesivany_> mhroncok: yes, the higth should be +/- the same.
21:38:16 <FranciscoD> lupinix: ++
21:38:46 <mhroncok> well I wouldn't stick that shpaed sticker on my device, but that's just my case I guess
21:39:15 <mhroncok> the case badges on the other hand, are thay the metal-like one?
21:39:23 <mhroncok> *they
21:39:23 <robyduck> mhroncok: I also like much more small stickers
21:39:23 <sesivany_> I think it's not only about marking your computer, there will be users of Fedora Server or Cloud who would want to put them on their laptops even though they run them on servers or in the cloud.
21:39:46 <fale> I see the case-badge for "fedora" or "fedora workstation" as very important, while server are less important and cloud... not very easy to pin-point the case of a cloud server
21:39:48 <Levex> is there any reason why the case badges don't have the colors the sticker have?
21:39:50 * robyduck curious about miro's question
21:40:08 <sesivany_> mhroncok: no, the white ones, our EMEA producers can't make metal ones.
21:40:15 <mhroncok> :(
21:40:21 <robyduck> the metallic case-badges are so cool, the white ones not so
21:40:25 <rsc> robyduck: +1
21:40:31 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: but plain paper, or covered with plastic?
21:40:31 <robyduck> :(
21:40:54 <gnokii> Levex: of course there is a reason the case badge for workstation would be green then
21:41:00 <sesivany_> FranciscoD: the white ones are actually much more durable than metal ones.
21:41:06 <robyduck> sesivany_: I saw also the white ones go away after some time, while my metallic case-badges are there since F17
21:41:07 <mhroncok> honeslty, in that case I don't like any of those stickers, but I don't want to be troublemaker, so I guess I'll skip the vote
21:41:19 <geroldka> there was one producer in the stuttgart area who made the first one in the same sice like the intel sticker e.g.
21:41:32 <geroldka> but they can't produce masses
21:41:37 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: aye, I think rahul had gotten these paper ones that were covered with a plastic coating - like they were laminated - those had lasted quite a bit
21:41:40 <sesivany_> FranciscoD: not the ones we now produce, the ones that go away was some old production I don't know how made.
21:41:43 <robyduck> geroldka: I guess I have one of those, same size
21:42:02 <geroldka> and to be honest the metallic which we had a few years ago were not that good as the white ones
21:42:13 <sesivany_> FranciscoD: sorry that was for robyduck
21:42:18 <robyduck> np
21:42:51 <sesivany_> robyduck: the white ones we produce now have special coating, very durable. I haven't seen any of them to go away.
21:43:05 <robyduck> ok
21:43:35 <sesivany_> moreover they're not so thick as the metal ones, so the edges don't get screwed.
21:43:51 <Levex> gnokii: I didn't mean the full case badge, just the logos of the individual products
21:44:07 <Levex> I just find it odd, that we have a sticker with colors and a case badge without them
21:44:09 <gnokii> Levex: that looks even more horrible then
21:44:34 <lupinix> gnokii: +1 i like your current case badge design in one color
21:44:38 <sesivany_> anyway, the question is what case badges we want to produce. I agree that case badges are for marking what is running on the machine. It makes sense for the workstation.
21:44:41 <robyduck> again, if you put white ones *and* metallic ones on a table in an event, the metallic ones will finish immediately, but if we can't produce them any more we have to take what we can produce :/
21:44:59 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: ++
21:45:11 <fale> sesivany_ & robyduck ++
21:45:26 <Levex> gnokii: could be, I'm ok with this though. was just curious
21:45:26 <robyduck> sesivany_: yes, workstation should be the main, maybe also 3500
21:45:26 <FranciscoD> the stickers can be used on a wide variety of places
21:45:31 <robyduck> and cloud and server 500
21:45:32 <sesivany_> so let's say 1500 with Fedora logo and 1500 with workstation branding?
21:45:53 <sesivany_> case badges, I mean, not stickers.
21:46:15 <sesivany_> and no server and cloud case badges.
21:46:16 <lupinix> so no ones for server?
21:46:23 <robyduck> sesivany_: +1
21:46:25 <sesivany_> does it sound reasonable?
21:46:34 <FranciscoD> Yes +1
21:46:35 <lupinix> yes
21:46:38 <fale> I think some server case could be ok
21:46:38 <Levex> +1
21:46:45 <sesivany_> lupinix: yes no case badges for server and cloud.
21:46:50 <lupinix> fale: +1
21:47:12 <heffer> 0 from me. I feel that our stickers should have our logo on them always.
21:47:13 <mhroncok> I could imagine  case badge ona server
21:47:22 <mhroncok> 0
21:47:23 <rsc> Are visitors really grabbing a sticker without the Fedora logo? From what I experienced so far, attendees are looking for the Fedora logo on $everything.
21:47:34 <heffer> rsc: +1
21:47:57 <FranciscoD> well, these are new fedora related images - they might take some time to catch on?
21:48:04 <fale> it's also true that the "plain fedora" could be used instead of the server on server
21:48:07 <fale> so i'm +1
21:48:08 <sesivany_> rsc: we can't know because the products are new thing.
21:48:21 <FranciscoD> but with fedora.next, the products will get more visibility, and the new images should too
21:48:24 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: +1
21:48:30 <lupinix> sesivany_: +1
21:48:32 <sesivany_> ONE MORE THING: I'm not producing stickers with Fedora logo because we have a plenty of them.
21:48:42 <gnokii> rsc: the problem is we have to make it visible on booth that there are now 3 "products"
21:49:04 <FranciscoD> I mean, at a booth etc, we'll have 'workstation, server, cloud -> media + stickers/swag'
21:49:12 <sesivany_> so no Fedora logo stickers this time because we have a lot of them in stock.
21:49:20 <geroldka> media?
21:50:00 <sesivany_> ok, let's give it some structure so that we can move forward.
21:50:05 <sesivany_> case badges:
21:50:34 <sesivany_> we all agree we want the fedora logo ones + workstation, it doesn't make much sense to make cloud ones, do we want server ones?
21:50:55 <lupinix> +1 @server
21:51:01 <fale> +1 on sesivany_
21:51:10 <fale> lupinix: on servers the fedora one could be used
21:51:39 <lupinix> fale: that is true… so…
21:51:44 <geroldka> +1 for just workstation
21:51:45 <robyduck> +1 for fedoralogo + workstation only
21:51:46 <sesivany_> fale that's true.
21:51:48 <lupinix> sesivany_ +1
21:51:53 <sesivany_> robyduck: ok
21:52:15 <sesivany_> ok, so Fedora logo + workstation... 1500 and 1500 then?
21:52:24 <fale> +1
21:52:26 <kmf> +1
21:52:28 <lupinix> +1
21:52:30 <FranciscoD> +1
21:52:42 <sesivany_> +1
21:52:44 <robyduck> +1
21:52:47 <sesivany_> cool
21:53:13 <Levex> +1
21:53:18 <geroldka> +1
21:53:21 <sesivany_> #info We will produce 1500 case badges with Fedora logo and 1500 ones with Workstation branding.
21:53:30 <sesivany_> now stickers...
21:53:45 <sesivany_> Again: we have a plenty of stickers with Fedora logo.
21:54:04 <sesivany_> we're not going away from it.
21:54:13 <sesivany_> now it's about the product.
21:54:30 <sesivany_> what do you think would be the best distribution among them?
21:54:32 <gnokii> sesivany_: did you look for an vendor?
21:54:44 <sesivany_> gnokii: for stickers?
21:54:48 <gnokii> yes
21:55:02 <sesivany_> gnokii: I have one reliable, why?
21:55:12 <robyduck> 3500-500-500
21:55:16 <gnokii> we could do them as sheet
21:55:25 <fale> +1 on robyduck
21:56:06 <lupinix> robyduck: +1
21:56:10 <sesivany_> gnokii: we surely can, but I always wanted them to cut them apart, it seemed more practical to me.
21:56:39 <gnokii> ok then single
21:56:41 <sesivany_> 3500-500-500 then?
21:56:47 <lupinix> +1
21:56:48 <fale> +1
21:57:01 <FranciscoD> +1
21:57:02 <gnokii> +1
21:57:02 <kmf> +1
21:57:10 <sesivany_> ok
21:57:13 <fale> guys, sorry for the step back: which material will be used for case badges?
21:57:40 <robyduck> fale: white
21:57:45 <sesivany_> #agreed We will produce 3500 Workstation stickers, 500 Server stickers, and 500 Cloud stickers.
21:57:49 <fale> robyduck: perfect, thanks :)
21:58:22 <sesivany_> ok, that's it for requests.
21:58:54 <sesivany_> no, I've got one more :)
21:58:56 <sesivany_> media
21:59:13 <sesivany_> #info Ticket #422 - F21 media production
21:59:23 <sesivany_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/422
22:00:23 <sesivany_> what we agreed on in FAmSCo and based on feedback I've gathered, I'm proposing only production of workstation media.
22:00:44 <sesivany_> I haven't seen strong demand for server, and cloud doesn't make sense.
22:00:48 <mhroncok> shouldn't we produce cloud media as wel? :D
22:01:44 <FranciscoD> workstation++ - I don't know about server and cloud media - folks that deploy these products will have a better idea
22:01:57 <lupinix> what about other desktop spins?
22:01:57 <FranciscoD> webkeys-- as mentioned on the trac ticket - they don't make much sense
22:02:03 <sesivany_> our budget situation allows us to produce 500 flash drives as well, but many people say it's a waste of money considering how expensive they still are.
22:02:16 <fale> FranciscoD: usually those kind of people are experienced enough to download the iso and put it on usbs ;)
22:02:19 <lupinix> i don't think cloud media make sense
22:02:20 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: yeah, flash drives --
22:02:21 <gnokii> lupinix: we stopped producing spins and that was a good thing to do
22:02:25 <FranciscoD> fale: yeah, precisely :)
22:02:55 <lupinix> gnokii: why? (i'm a new ambassador and don't know the story)
22:03:31 <robyduck> yep, cloud also have several images, should we use the base image 64bit or atomic? I think it's not worth to have them, just need workstation media
22:03:31 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: I see you've listed prices for dual layer media too - are we considering production of multidvds?
22:03:36 <sesivany_> lupinix: Fedora.next is about focusing on official products, that's what we want to promote primarily.
22:03:39 <gnokii> because it did cost us a lot of money and we never had enough media for all events, since we stopped doing that we produce a lot more media and have no problems there anymore
22:04:02 <lupinix> ok thx gnokii :)
22:04:03 <sesivany_> lupinix: that doesn't mean that we don't want to promote other flavors of Fedora.
22:04:03 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: (or are they just listed for sake of completeness :) ?)
22:04:43 <sesivany_> lupinix: but production of DVDs is specific, the unit price goes down sharply with volume.
22:05:07 <sesivany_> lupinix: so producing several kinds of DVDs in small volumes is very costy.
22:05:23 <lupinix> thx for information sesivany_ :)
22:05:42 <lupinix> so then only workstation makes sense for me
22:06:06 <sesivany_> lupinix: and we don't want to produce the multidesktop dvds because producing distinguished products and them mixing them with other stuff before reaching the user is somehow in contradiction with the effoct.
22:06:19 <FranciscoD> makes sense
22:06:19 <geroldka> do we still need medias in Europe?
22:06:29 <rsc> geroldka: IMHO yes.
22:06:37 <gnokii> geroldka: yes
22:06:37 <robyduck> rsc: +1
22:06:44 <lupinix> yes, it is nice for events
22:06:47 <fale> geroldka: imho yes
22:06:50 <sesivany_> geroldka: there is still demand for it, but we all know that DVDs are going away... slowly.
22:06:56 <geroldka> does not everybody has a DSL flatrate
22:07:16 <geroldka> and download his image of his coleur?
22:07:16 <rsc> geroldka: no, or just a slow one. High-speed internet is technically not available in all areas...
22:07:21 <mhroncok> the poinbt of media is to give them to people, so they can bring it home and never use it
22:07:28 <sesivany_> geroldka: that's why we've started a discussion about alternatives, but there is no other media even remotely as cheap as DVDs.
22:07:46 <geroldka> I agree
22:07:46 <mhroncok> but people ask for it, they want it, let's give it to them
22:08:02 <geroldka> so just as an idea
22:08:12 <geroldka> why we don't make them exclusivly
22:08:15 <sesivany_> I think the most viable alternative in the future are fliers with info what Fedora is, how to download it and how to create a bootable stick.
22:08:28 <geroldka> that people must ask for at the desk
22:08:34 <geroldka> and you get in touch with them
22:08:53 <sesivany_> geroldka: you're talking about usb drives?
22:08:54 <geroldka> make an interview and take care that the media is proper used
22:09:07 <geroldka> no, also normal DvD
22:09:12 <gnokii> geroldka: most visitors ask anyway if they can take something;)
22:09:19 <fale> I see the media as a "commitment" of the person toward giving Fedora a shot
22:09:27 <geroldka> give that "Beutelratten" a sticker
22:09:33 <robyduck> lol
22:09:51 <lupinix> xD
22:09:59 <geroldka> but to be honest ...
22:10:13 <geroldka> USB key is cool but as you said correctly very expensive
22:10:14 <sesivany_> geroldka: in fact, in this volume the DVD is not much more expensive than the sticker :)
22:10:26 <gnokii> sesivany_: so question is digipack or not or
22:10:44 <geroldka> in my eyes it's waste of money which we can use much more better
22:10:54 <geroldka> but OK, that's just one view :-)
22:11:16 <sesivany_> gnokii: from what I have gathered, people don't want the digipack, it makes the dvds almost twice more expensive. The ones we produce are just fine.
22:11:22 <mhroncok> in my eys when we have no media, people are not happy about us and they just take media from other booths and think how Fedora sucks
22:11:33 <lupinix> i prefer simple sleve cover
22:11:38 <lupinix> *sleeve
22:11:42 <FranciscoD> mhroncok: ++ it's quite a marketing thing
22:11:45 <gnokii> yeah sesivany_ they only look at the money alway not on the effect
22:11:52 <FranciscoD> media also counts as "goodies"
22:11:52 <rsc> Simple cover, because the event owners have to transport them.
22:12:13 <sesivany_> gnokii: it also makes them bigger and heavier, not practical for shipping.
22:12:19 <gnokii> rsc: digisleeve is not that bigger
22:12:27 <rsc> gnokii: but more weight?
22:12:36 <gnokii> rsc: marginal
22:12:53 <sesivany_> gnokii: I can tell you it's not fun to package 600 DVDs and every mm is important :)
22:12:53 <geroldka> size does matter :-P
22:13:15 <gnokii> point for digisleeve was we have no space for more information about the other products
22:13:16 <geroldka> +2 to sesivany_
22:13:29 <rsc> gnokii: what's the difference for 100 media (just to get an impression)?
22:13:50 <gnokii> rsc: havent u seen the ubuntu media?
22:14:31 <rsc> Ush, that ones.
22:15:02 <sesivany_> digipack would open another can of worms... doing a completely new design, writing and approving new content on it...
22:15:18 <sesivany_> not sure if it's worth the hassle.
22:15:32 <gnokii> for the weight and transportation where is the difference between carrying DVD in digisleeves or DVD +flyer because they are cheaper to produce
22:16:26 <gnokii> sesivany_: thats not a big can
22:17:12 <sesivany_> but who's going to push the whole thing to make design for digipack? We haven't been able to produce any flier in the last two years...
22:17:56 <sesivany_> just a side note: we will have to finish in 13 minutes, LATAM meeting starts here then.
22:18:07 <sesivany_> let's keep this question open.
22:18:23 <sesivany_> we still have time for this to decide, we need to move one.
22:18:30 <sesivany_> s/one/on
22:18:32 <FranciscoD> sesivany_: I updated the users flyer for f20, but I think we'll have to make fresh product specific flyers this cycle
22:18:55 <sesivany_> #topic Events
22:19:07 <FranciscoD> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/For_Ambassadors/Fedora20
22:19:19 <robyduck> sesivany_: anything about Release Parties today?
22:19:20 * sesivany_ is skipping the ambassador's schedule topic due to lack of time.
22:19:23 <geroldka> we also have not been able to produce cheat cubes since years
22:19:55 <sesivany_> robyduck: I'm planning to send out a a call for release parties soon.
22:20:19 <geroldka> btw
22:20:28 <geroldka> how it looks with the release date?
22:20:32 <robyduck> ok, cool, it's time to start planning them (badge is already designed), same procedure as last year
22:20:33 <geroldka> still ok?
22:20:48 <robyduck> geroldka: actually 9th
22:20:57 <mhroncok> geroldka: Dec 9th
22:20:57 <geroldka> or do we know right now that there could be a blocker
22:21:13 <robyduck> we should smoothly land on 16th not later
22:21:21 <sesivany_> geroldka: beta will hopefully be released this time.
22:21:33 <geroldka> too bad
22:21:41 <sesivany_> robyduck: IMHO if Fedora is delayed one more time, then it will be postponed to January.
22:21:49 <geroldka> because FAD is at the weekend before
22:22:09 <sesivany_> frankly I would not bet my money on the 9th.
22:22:18 <geroldka> and it would have been a big bunch to make a release Party with that group of Ambassadors in leverkusen
22:22:40 <sesivany_> geroldka: last year, it was the same, we missed it.
22:22:41 <rsc> geroldka: slip FAD according to F21 schedule? ;-)
22:22:56 <sesivany_> anyway any other events to discuss today?
22:23:10 <sesivany_> 8 minutes left...
22:23:21 <rsc> sesivany_: not discussing, I will attend FSCONS on Friday till Sunday in Gothenburg, Sweden.
22:23:43 <geroldka> once more rsc?
22:23:44 <gnokii> rsc: have you solved the table cloth problem?
22:23:46 <sesivany_> #info Fedora will be at FSCONS on Friday till Sunday in Gothenburg, Sweden.
22:23:58 <rsc> gnokii: yes, heffer sent it. I will pass it back before OpenRheinRuhr
22:24:27 <gnokii> hope it works
22:24:55 <heffer> DHL delivered it in just 2 days
22:25:00 <heffer> should work OK
22:25:32 <mhroncok> 5 minutes
22:25:46 <sesivany_> heffer: please announce the FAD on the ambassadors mailing list too.
22:25:51 <heffer> i will
22:26:10 <fale> we start taking tickets & co?
22:26:26 <sesivany_> heffer: we will have to contact chosen people individually anyway to make sure we have representatives from as many countries as possible.
22:26:43 <heffer> I guess i could use some help with that
22:26:58 * FranciscoD notes to inform the UK folks
22:27:11 <sesivany_> heffer: I will help you contact ambassadors.
22:27:14 <fale> heffer: we could add a column to the table to add the nationality, for easier reference
22:27:20 <sesivany_> did that last year.
22:27:30 <heffer> fale: good idea
22:27:40 <geroldka> there exists a draft
22:27:54 <geroldka> which numbers are important and should be reportet to all
22:27:58 <geroldka> fab should have that
22:28:58 <sesivany_> heffer: let them issue an invoice and sent it to me, we should start the payment process ASAP.
22:29:13 <sesivany_> heffer it should have details for international transfer.
22:29:18 <rsc> T-1 for next meeting
22:29:41 <sesivany_> heffer: payments in RH may take up to 3 weeks, I and mhroncok have already learned some hard lessons :)
22:29:58 <mhroncok> even more
22:30:09 <gnokii> 3 weeksis fast
22:30:11 <geroldka> this is why some vendor want to have payment in front
22:30:17 <geroldka> if RH is reveiver
22:30:23 <geroldka> of the invoice
22:30:26 <heffer> I will clarify with them. Can you give me an invoice address
22:30:54 <sesivany_> ok, time is up, LATAM guys are surely waiting. Thank you for attending and meet you in two weeks!
22:30:56 <robyduck> LATAM time
22:31:01 <sesivany_> heffer: PM.
22:31:05 <mhroncok> bye
22:31:09 <lupinix> bye
22:31:13 <geroldka> bye
22:31:17 <sesivany_> #endmeeting