06:00:42 <mfabian> #startmeeting i18n
06:00:42 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 15 06:00:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is mfabian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:00:42 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:00:59 <ueno> hi
06:01:31 <juhp> hi
06:02:02 <mfabian> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2014-10-15
06:02:54 <fujiwarat> hi
06:03:51 <juhp> I think epico and the guys in Pune are away today actually
06:04:35 <mfabian> #meetingname i18n
06:04:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:05:19 <mfabian> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:05:50 <mfabian> #info 2014-10-14 Software Translation Deadline
06:05:51 <mfabian> #info 2014-10-14 Beta Change Deadline
06:05:51 <mfabian> #info 2014-10-14 Accepted Changes 100% Complete
06:05:51 <mfabian> #info 2014-10-28 Beta Release
06:07:11 <mfabian> #topic Outstanding topics
06:07:36 <juhp> I guess TC3 is out
06:08:06 <mfabian> I installed the TC3 netinst yesterday.
06:08:36 <mfabian> #topic Outstanding topics
06:09:05 <mfabian> #info #31: Fedora 21 i18n docbeats
06:09:12 <mfabian> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/31
06:09:45 <mfabian> Do we need to add anything or change in the Documentation I18n Beat page?
06:10:24 <juhp> woah , noto fonts!
06:10:28 <juhp> hmm
06:10:46 <juhp> not sure if listing all the subpackages is really useful/meaningful
06:11:54 <juhp> fujiwarat, just occurred to me - maybe too late, but maybe show-config would be a better name than read-config
06:12:44 <fujiwarat> juhp: ibus has read-cache and write-cache sub-commands, too.
06:13:19 <juhp> fujiwarat, okay - yeah I dunno - somehow read makes me think import
06:13:29 <fujiwarat> show-config and show-cache ?
06:14:00 <juhp> fujiwarat, yes that might be clearer
06:14:05 <fujiwarat> dconf command has read and write sub-commands.
06:14:09 <juhp> true
06:14:15 <juhp> so maybe it is okay
06:14:37 <juhp> anyway just a smaller point
06:15:13 <juhp> I might prefer show and set to read/write in general in this kind of context :)
06:15:30 <juhp> but maybe it is a personal preference
06:16:13 <juhp> anyway
06:16:42 <juhp> for Noto I feel we should reduce the amount of info - anyway I guess it needs to go to git now?
06:16:47 <juhp> tagoh_, ?
06:17:26 <juhp> anyone know the git url?  we should probably be looking at that now not the wiki page
06:17:57 <mfabian> The notice “Beat Closed on Wiki” on top of the wiki page means that it is pointless to edit that wiki page?
06:18:36 <juhp> I think so
06:18:50 <juhp> well at least changes will not be picked up
06:19:08 <randomuser> !
06:19:20 <mfabian> Then it would really be nice to know the git URL ...
06:19:46 <randomuser> There was a bug filed on noto-fonts by pravin, we agreed to do a yum list invocation instead of the actual list
06:20:03 <randomuser> https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/docs/release-notes.git/commit/?id=0d45ae8c505bb94fbcb9cf921ebfb8c8c67dcf25
06:20:31 <juhp> randomuser, aha
06:20:36 <juhp> good
06:20:37 <juhp> thanks
06:20:40 <randomuser> feedback welcome :)
06:21:17 <randomuser> the summary page will give you repo URIs if you want to preview the whole document
06:21:28 <juhp> thanks
06:22:45 <juhp> I added https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/docs/release-notes.git/tree/en-US/I18n.xml to our trac ticket
06:24:38 <randomuser> Thanks for working the beat, all, i18n always writes it well
06:25:18 * randomuser drifts off to allow the meeting to continue uninterrupted
06:26:39 <mfabian> #topic Fedora i18n Mission Statement
06:26:51 <mfabian> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/34
06:27:28 <mfabian> Do we have new ideas for our mission statement?
06:28:06 <mfabian> “To boldly fix bugs nobody fixed before” ...
06:29:19 <juhp> :
06:29:20 <juhp> )
06:30:21 <juhp> randomuser, thanks again for the timely comments here
06:30:46 <juhp> hmm
06:31:03 <juhp> mfabian, i18n bugs? :)
06:31:23 <mfabian> Yes!
06:34:32 <juhp> we probably need more thought
06:35:37 <juhp> I quite like also Ankit's suggestion "Enabling Fedora to speak your language"
06:35:48 <juhp> simple at least :)
06:35:53 <mfabian> Yes, it is difficult to write something meaningful which doesn’t sound like a string of buzzwords ...
06:36:02 <mfabian> Ankit’s suggestion sounds great!
06:36:04 <juhp> hehe yea
06:36:34 <juhp> though "speak" is slightly ambiguous perhaps
06:37:02 <mfabian> I think it is OK, it is “obviously” meant metaphorically.
06:37:50 <juhp> right
06:38:28 <juhp> I wonder if Fedora l10n has one
06:39:04 <mfabian> “Enabling Fedora to speak, input, render, print, … your language” sounds weird. Just “speak” seems perfect.
06:40:44 <juhp> ok
06:41:00 <juhp> maybe more important is deciding if that is really the Mission statement we want
06:43:03 <juhp> probably we need more time/discussion?
06:43:35 <mfabian> OK, let’s think more about it. But Ankit’s suggestion is really nice ...
06:43:43 <juhp> I feel it would be good to have a aspect of quality in the Statement too
06:43:53 <juhp> "speak well" say
06:44:42 <mfabian> ... just wanted to write the same as juhp.
06:45:20 <mfabian> “speak well”, “speak perfectly”, ...
06:46:12 <juhp> yes variously variations possible :)
06:46:30 <juhp> various
06:48:00 * juhp wishes his client would warn about grammatical errors before sending his irc msgs...
06:48:33 <mfabian> “Enabling Fedora to speak your language without grammatical errors.”
06:49:53 <mfabian> #topic Fedora 21 i18n test day
06:50:04 <mfabian> It is in the past already, but it never hurts to do some testing ...
06:51:22 <juhp> mfabian, haha
06:52:03 <juhp> (without grammatical errors)
06:54:26 <juhp> okay - we should probably close after beta anyway I feel - not really sure if we will get any more test results at this point though
06:54:44 <mfabian> OK, next topic ...
06:54:50 <juhp> was tagoh_ going to do some analysis I forget?
06:56:29 <juhp> mfabian, anyway go ahead I think :)
06:56:58 <mfabian> #topic Review Gnome redesign plans for control-center Region and Language
06:57:13 <mfabian> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/36
06:57:24 <mfabian> #link https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/RegionAndLanguage
06:58:10 <juhp> I don't have any update... anyone else?
06:58:38 <juhp> someone should discuss more with Rui I think
06:59:17 <mfabian> It says “Languages without regional variants can be selected directly from the language list. Languages with more than one region show an arrow for navigating to a sub-list.” <- I like that, it is similar to what we see in the welcome screen of Anaconda.
06:59:39 <juhp> mfabian, okay - that sounds good yes
07:00:41 <juhp> I assume they will stick with a single language panel - not the split panel like in Anaconda
07:01:02 <juhp> I prefer the single panel UI
07:01:53 <mfabian> I like the split panel in Anaconda, but it doesn’t matter much as long as one can select the locales somehow.
07:03:29 <mfabian> #topic New Task: I18N wiki cleanup
07:03:42 <mfabian> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/35
07:03:55 <mfabian> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N
07:09:31 <mfabian> Nothing new ... then next topic?
07:11:17 <mfabian> #topic Open Floor
07:11:55 <juhp> any f21 bugs to worry about?
07:12:15 <juhp> the password IM bug seems not good
07:13:18 <mfabian> I found that on Fedora 21, do_set_content_type() is never called. What could be the reason for that?
07:13:34 <juhp> hmm
07:13:38 <mfabian> Rui says he thinks nothing should have changed.
07:15:08 <juhp> do you have the bug#?
07:15:29 <mfabian> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1151429
07:17:15 <juhp> fujiwarat, any comments?
07:18:08 <fujiwarat> ibus is same between f21 and f20.
07:18:46 <mfabian> Yes, I have exactly the same ibus package both on f20 and f21.
07:18:55 <mfabian> But I see the problem only on f21.
07:19:07 <mfabian> So it must be Gnome? Or Gtk?
07:19:21 <juhp> probably
07:19:42 <juhp> I wonder if we shouldn't propose as a Beta blocker or exception
07:20:06 <juhp> mfabian, ascii password is shown?
07:20:39 <mfabian> ascii password?
07:20:46 <mfabian> You mean when typing without an input method?
07:21:05 <juhp> ah - I see the screenshot
07:22:48 <juhp> okay I proposed as a Freeze Exception
07:24:15 <mfabian> When typing with a keyboard layout, one properly sees the bullets.
07:24:33 <juhp> iiuc it only affect gnome-shell UI
07:24:37 <juhp> affects
07:24:43 <mfabian> When typing with an input method, one sees the input while in preedit. When it is committed, one sees it as bullets.
07:24:53 <juhp> I see
07:26:27 <mfabian> I’ll ask Rui again whether he has an idea.
07:26:39 <mfabian> That was the last topic …
07:26:40 <juhp> okay thanks
07:26:45 <mfabian> Any more comments?
07:27:16 <fujiwarat> fedup --network 21 still does not work...
07:27:21 <juhp> ah
07:27:51 <mfabian> Oh, that’s bad, I would like to update my laptop soon.
07:29:12 <mfabian> fujiwarat: Is there a bug about “fedup --network 21” not working?
07:30:05 <fujiwarat> mfabian: I'm not sure when the upgrade works in beta or alpha. It seems to failed to get the kernel.
07:30:41 <juhp> fujiwarat, so it fails to boot into update process?
07:31:11 * juhp remembers hearing about fedup problems but I forget where
07:31:48 <fujiwarat> It seems failed to get the image before the actual upgrade starts.
07:31:50 <juhp> ah I think it was the Workstation WG meeting but maybe something else
07:31:57 <juhp> fujiwarat, I see
07:33:15 <tagoh_> one is in the accepted blocker
07:33:22 <tagoh_> .bug 1099299
07:33:25 <zodbot> tagoh_: Bug 1099299 fedup fails to upgrade f20 to rawhide - infinite loop when starting udev - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1099299
07:33:40 <juhp> aha
07:33:54 <juhp> tagoh_, thanks - maybe it was there
07:33:56 <tagoh_> dunno if it was in the discussion you saw
07:34:42 <juhp> seems assigned to systemd
07:38:04 <mfabian> Anything more?
07:38:07 <juhp> fujiwarat, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1099299#c7
07:38:13 <juhp> seems to be a workaround
07:39:42 <fujiwarat> juhp: thx. I knew --initrepo option but I surprised that kernel URL :(.
07:40:15 <fujiwarat> Maybe I wait for the bug fix.
07:40:31 <juhp> fujiwarat, I think it is a kind of known problem with fedup before GA
07:41:08 <juhp> the mirrors point to F20 iirc so one gets old environment for the upgrade
07:41:21 <fujiwarat> ok, I see.
07:41:22 <juhp> so I think that is why the url is needed
07:41:38 <juhp> It can be any F21 mirror of course with images
07:42:21 <juhp> which suggests that the problem will fix it self at GA bicbw
07:42:45 <mfabian> But not the systemd/udev problem.
07:42:47 <juhp> it would be nice if fedup could be a bit smarter with the repo urls before final
07:43:37 <mfabian> I guess the important point in the workaround in comment#7 was “systemctl stop systemd-udevd systemd-udevd-control.socket systemd-udevd-kernel.socket”
07:44:05 <tagoh_> guess so
07:44:27 <juhp> mfabian, ah guess you're right
07:44:39 <juhp> fujiwarat, so it probably won't help much sorry
07:44:47 <mfabian> Who wants to chair this meeting next week?
07:48:43 <juhp> if we can't decide now we can try to find someone later offline I guess
07:50:02 <mfabian> OK.
07:50:09 <mfabian> Then I can probably end this meeting ...
07:50:53 <mfabian> Thanks to everyone!
07:51:01 <mfabian> #endmeeting