15:09:48 <Kevin_Kofler> #startmeeting KDE SIG Meeting 15:09:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul 8 15:09:48 2014 UTC. The chair is Kevin_Kofler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:09:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:09:52 <Kevin_Kofler> #meetingname kde-sig 15:09:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig' 15:09:55 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Roll call 15:10:01 * Kevin_Kofler is present, who else? 15:10:06 * jreznik is here 15:10:08 <jreznik> still here 15:10:13 <Kevin_Kofler> :-) 15:10:20 <pino|work> here 15:13:30 <Kevin_Kofler> danofsatx, danofsatx-work, dvratil, mbriza, rdieter, rdieter_: ping? 15:13:38 <mbriza> hey 15:13:45 <danofsatx-work> aqui 15:14:40 <danofsatx-work> sorry, was catching up on email 15:16:33 <Kevin_Kofler> #chair jreznik pino|work mbriza danofsatx-work 15:16:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler danofsatx-work jreznik mbriza pino|work 15:16:52 <Kevin_Kofler> #info Kevin_Kofler, jreznik, pino|work, mbriza, danofsatx-work present. 15:17:42 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Agenda 15:19:28 <Kevin_Kofler> So, what to discuss today? (Attendance is sparse, sadly… I guess that's expected at this time of the year, but still.) 15:20:15 <mbriza> pinged jgrulich, he seemed pretty alive a while ago at table tennis 15:20:17 <danofsatx-work> are we participating in the F21 Alpha TC1? 15:20:52 <Kevin_Kofler> mbriza: :-) 15:20:56 <danofsatx-work> or entire release schedule, for that matter? 15:21:28 <Kevin_Kofler> danofsatx-work: As I understand it, yes, at least we didn't ask for anything different… 15:21:49 <Kevin_Kofler> FESCo OKed us as a release-blocking Spin for F21, which to me means releasing on the same schedule. 15:22:20 <danofsatx-work> ok 15:25:59 <Kevin_Kofler> So, if there isn't anything, I'm going to end the meeting right here… 15:26:05 <Kevin_Kofler> (Closing meeting in 60 seconds.) 15:26:40 <danofsatx-work> uh, ok... 15:27:05 <danofsatx-work> for the record, in case no one has been watching....Alpha TC1 release is today 15:27:54 <Kevin_Kofler> If they forget us @rel-eng, I'm going to yell loudly. ;-) 15:28:10 <danofsatx-work> heh 15:28:14 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic F21 KDE Schedule 15:28:17 <danofsatx-work> you? no, you don't say..... 15:28:27 <mbriza> alpha tc1 release? it was branched already? 15:28:31 <Kevin_Kofler> #info F21 KDE follows the general F21 Schedule. 15:28:35 <jreznik> it will probably take some time to produce tc1 15:28:48 <danofsatx-work> did I misunderstand? 15:29:09 <jreznik> mbriza: branch is today but not yet done, I was asking Dennis a few moments ago 15:29:28 <Kevin_Kofler> #info FESCo approved the KDE Spin as release-blocking for F21, which implies following the release schedule. 15:29:51 <mbriza> jreznik: ah, thanks 15:30:01 <danofsatx-work> ok, branch is today then. 15:30:06 * danofsatx-work is very confused 15:30:30 <Kevin_Kofler> #info F21 Alpha scheduled to branch today, F21 Alpha TC1 planned for right afterwards (but may take time). 15:30:40 <Kevin_Kofler> danofsatx-work: TC* releases are releases known to be broken. 15:30:50 <Kevin_Kofler> If they'd be shippable, they'd be called RC*, not TC*. 15:31:04 <Kevin_Kofler> So a TC can be scheduled right after branching, it's not a contradiction. 15:31:08 <danofsatx-work> oh, I know...I just didn't expect my knowledge of the process and schedule to be broken 15:31:18 <Kevin_Kofler> Of course, typically, things are so broken that the release doesn't compose at all, and so TC1 slips. 15:33:06 <Kevin_Kofler> Even if it's only a TC for an Alpha release, there have to be at least some ISOs getting spat out of the compose process. :-) 15:33:52 <jreznik> mbriza: dgilmore will start it soon 15:34:18 <jreznik> btw. adamw drafted release criteria for workstation and kde, take a look pls 15:34:32 <mbriza> yeah, i was just wondering, i knew the branch should have been somewhen around today 15:36:19 <mbriza> wow, arm test cases 15:36:40 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: URL please… 15:36:48 <mbriza> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Desktop_validation_results_template 15:37:15 <mbriza> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_workstation_release_criteria 15:39:04 <Kevin_Kofler> ARM is only getting tested with KDE? Wow… 15:39:12 <Kevin_Kofler> GNOME's Hell still doesn't work properly on ARM? 15:39:30 <danofsatx-work> heh.....poetic justice 15:39:43 <adamw> it's not release blocking on ARM, just because of GPU support 15:39:56 <jreznik> Kevin_Kofler: kde 5 is around, so... 15:40:11 <adamw> things are basically as-they-were in f20 for KDE 15:40:22 <Kevin_Kofler> Is llvmpipe still so broken on ARM that it crashes gnome-shell? 15:40:29 <adamw> but do point out any places where there are inadvertent logic fails or anything in the process due to extensive mucking around 15:40:37 <pwhalen> gnome does work on one arm target (at least), but KDE was selected as release blocking 15:40:47 <adamw> Kevin_Kofler: i don't know about that, but ARM hardware generally isn't powerful enough that it'd give a plausible experience with llvmpipe, aiui. 15:41:29 <Kevin_Kofler> GPU support is going to be an issue for Plasma 5, i.e. probably starting from Fedora 22, too, by the way. 15:41:56 <jreznik> yep 15:41:59 <adamw> mbriza: the workstation criteria are Workstation-specific, to be clear. they don't apply to KDE. 15:41:59 <Kevin_Kofler> Qt 5 requires OpenGL 2, you have to have at least software rendering (llvmpipe) working to use Qt 5 GUI apps. 15:42:19 <adamw> mbriza: the stuff in the 'generic' page (current draft https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_F21_Alpha_criteria) is what's applicable to the KDE spin. 15:43:06 <mbriza> ah, okay, thanks 15:43:44 <danofsatx-work> but, but, but......we can do everything the Workstation product can do, and do it better! 15:43:57 * danofsatx-work sulks 15:44:01 <Kevin_Kofler> danofsatx-work: But we can't use the testcases 1:1. 15:44:24 <Kevin_Kofler> There's a test case that says that Evince etc. must be installed, of course we will "fail" that, by design. ;-) 15:44:31 * danofsatx-work actually reads the criteria 15:44:41 <Kevin_Kofler> (this one: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_workstation_core_applications ) 15:45:14 <Kevin_Kofler> If we want something like that, we need our own version with our own list. 15:45:51 <Kevin_Kofler> Actually, Evince is not on the list, but e.g. gedit is. 15:46:24 <Kevin_Kofler> The list makes sense only for Workstation. So in that case, it's normal that the test case is only applicable to Workstation. 15:46:48 * jreznik has to run now 15:47:19 <Kevin_Kofler> Some other test cases would make sense though… 15:47:30 <Kevin_Kofler> E.g. the theming one: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_workstation_theming 15:47:57 <Kevin_Kofler> Of course, applications will not look the same as on the Workstation image, but they should look consistent here too. 15:48:11 <Kevin_Kofler> (all using Oxygen theming, vs. Adwaita on GNOME/Workstation) 15:48:26 <mbriza> Qt uses QtGTK by default in gnome3 15:48:47 <Kevin_Kofler> mbriza: Yes. 15:48:48 <mbriza> which then in turn uses gtk2 15:49:00 <Kevin_Kofler> Indeed, it's not ported to GTK+ 3 yet. 15:49:20 <Kevin_Kofler> But if GTK+ 2 apps pass the test, Qt apps will, too. 15:49:39 <Kevin_Kofler> It just tests that QGtkStyle works. :-) 15:51:11 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Open discussion 15:51:14 <Kevin_Kofler> So, anything else? 15:52:17 <kalev> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1098735 maybe? might need some developer attention. 15:52:43 <Kevin_Kofler> .bug 1098735 15:52:46 <zodbot> Kevin_Kofler: Bug 1098735 apper: hawkey backend missing features - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1098735 15:54:26 <Kevin_Kofler> Uhm, yeah… 15:54:40 <Kevin_Kofler> It's sad that Richard Hughes doesn't feel responsible. 15:55:09 <Kevin_Kofler> It's really his code that is not implementing the required interfaces. 15:55:33 <Kevin_Kofler> Just because GNOME Software doesn't use them doesn't mean they can just throw an error. 15:58:52 <kalev> I heard there was a plan to have Apper use appstream data too, maybe it doesn't need the comps support then? 15:59:45 <Kevin_Kofler> I guess we need to discuss this with dantti, the upstream Apper developer. 16:00:33 <Kevin_Kofler> That said, there are still some blockers preventing AppStream support for working in Fedora. 16:00:49 <Kevin_Kofler> The metadata being generated is invalid XML that GNOME's tools happen to accept. 16:01:19 <Kevin_Kofler> Hughsie didn't test any of his new stuff outside of GNOME. This really sucks. 16:01:57 <Kevin_Kofler> We also don't have AppData for KDE apps in yet. 16:02:15 <Kevin_Kofler> So the AppStream data would show only GNOME apps, which is also not acceptable of course. 16:02:25 <kalev> can you file tickets about the invalid XML issues? 16:02:28 <kalev> https://github.com/hughsie/appstream-glib 16:02:54 <Kevin_Kofler> The invalid XML from the Fedora generation process is already filed somewhere in RH Bugzilla (IIRC, rdieter filed it). 16:03:39 <Kevin_Kofler> The fact that appstream-glib accepts it, well, as long as it also accepts valid XML, I wouldn't bother complaining… 16:04:25 <Kevin_Kofler> There's also: 16:04:26 <Kevin_Kofler> .bug 1057843 16:04:29 <zodbot> Kevin_Kofler: Bug 1057843 [abrt] PackageKit: pk_backend_cancel(): packagekitd killed by SIGSEGV - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1057843 16:04:38 <Kevin_Kofler> that didn't get any response from Richard Hughes. 16:05:09 <kalev> No, I mean, the program that generates the data that's shipped in the appstream-data package lives in https://github.com/hughsie/appstream-glib 16:05:23 <kalev> so it's the place to fix issues with the XML generation 16:08:51 <Kevin_Kofler> By the way, I also dislike how policy decisions on what applications are listed are imposed at metadata generation time, so Apper has no possibility to list anything GNOME doesn't like. 16:08:56 <Kevin_Kofler> This is very broken. 16:08:56 <kalev> I commented in bug 1057843 16:09:43 <Kevin_Kofler> E.g., they require Comment= in the .desktop file and a 48×48 or larger icon, which are things only GNOME needs. 16:10:15 <Kevin_Kofler> They also decided not to list Qt 3 (and GTK+ 1) apps by policy. 16:10:48 <Kevin_Kofler> All these are things that don't belong in the metadata generator. 16:13:44 <kalev> anyway, just wanted to bring up this to make sure KDE has a working software installer 16:13:51 <kalev> nothing else from me, thanks 16:15:54 <danofsatx-work> I have a hard stop in 5 mins, so I'm done.... 16:17:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Looks like that's all, thanks all for coming and see you next week! 16:17:59 <Kevin_Kofler> #endmeeting