12:00:30 <mmaslano> #startmeeting Env and Stacks (2014-07-08)
12:00:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul  8 12:00:30 2014 UTC.  The chair is mmaslano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:00:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
12:00:35 <mmaslano> #meetingname env-and-stacks
12:00:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'env-and-stacks'
12:00:41 <mmaslano> #chair pkovar tjanez samkottler bkabrda hhorak juhp mmaslano vpavlin sic
12:00:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: bkabrda hhorak juhp mmaslano pkovar samkottler sic tjanez vpavlin
12:01:52 <mmaslano> hello
12:01:56 <juhp_> hi
12:02:00 <sicampbell> hi
12:02:14 <vpavlin> hi
12:02:24 <mmaslano> #topic init process
12:02:29 <mmaslano> wow so many people
12:02:40 <mmaslano> sicampbell: vpavlin: welcome
12:02:49 <sicampbell> thank you
12:03:04 <vpavlin> mmaslano: Thanks, you should probably add sicampbell to chairs
12:03:12 <mmaslano> I've added you two on our wiki
12:03:26 <mmaslano> sicampbell: hm are you using whole name? okay
12:03:40 <mmaslano> #chair sicampbell
12:03:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: bkabrda hhorak juhp mmaslano pkovar samkottler sic sicampbell tjanez vpavlin
12:04:02 <sicampbell> yes, someone else has the nickname sic
12:04:10 <mmaslano> sicampbell: I probably didn't propose good whenisgood for you
12:04:21 <mmaslano> sicampbell: are you on Eastern Coast?
12:04:25 <sicampbell> yes
12:04:44 <mmaslano> even for of us didn't match
12:04:52 <mmaslano> I need to send it again with more options
12:05:35 <juhp_> ok
12:05:50 <mmaslano> still it should be easier than before
12:05:59 <mmaslano> #topic docker plans
12:06:17 <mmaslano> vpavlin: do you have any idea where to start?
12:07:16 <vpavlin> mmaslano: My plan is to take a look at current Fedora images and try to minimize them as much as possible.
12:07:42 <mmaslano> #info vpavlin will take a look at current Fedora images and try to minimize them as much as possible.
12:07:47 <mmaslano> good start
12:07:56 <vpavlin> This might require some changes in pkg dependencies - we will see
12:08:31 <sicampbell> Is there currently an official fedora base image ?
12:08:49 <vpavlin> Another thing I need to check is how do we actually build images in Fedora
12:09:00 <vpavlin> sicampbell: Yes...give me a sec, I'll send you a link
12:09:06 <juhp_> I think biggest possible saving might come from removing/subpackaging of glibc locales
12:09:38 <vpavlin> juhp_: definitely - documentation and languages consume a lot
12:10:01 <vpavlin> sicampbell: https://registry.hub.docker.com/_/fedora/
12:10:59 <vpavlin> sicampbell: And here is what they are build from https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/cloud-kickstarts.git/tree/container
12:11:14 <sicampbell> thank you
12:12:44 <mmaslano> vpavlin: it might be possible to use soft dependencies if it can help in future...
12:14:09 <vpavlin> When base images are done - "stable", we should focus on layered images - do we want to provide images or just Dockerfiles? What kind of layered images - generic ones containing let's say python or ruby or ... Or do we want to provide whole stacks like LAMP?
12:14:14 <mmaslano> #url https://registry.hub.docker.com/_/fedora/
12:14:23 <mmaslano> #url https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/cloud-kickstarts.git/tree/container
12:15:11 <bkabrda> hi guys, sorry I'm late
12:15:16 <mmaslano> hard to say, do we know about users of LAMP? How can we say what should go into such LAMP image (for example how many modules of php)
12:15:51 <vpavlin> mmaslano: I would keep it small - they still can extend it via Dockerfiles
12:16:22 * juhp_ made a Fedora Haskell image recently
12:16:22 <pingou> mmaslano: I guess RemiFedora would be a good person to ask about lamp :)
12:16:32 <juhp_> on top of the fedora one
12:16:50 <mmaslano> pingou: sure he is, but P can be also Perl or Python ;-)
12:17:23 <vpavlin> mmaslano: And it makes more sense to me to make your image bigger with Dockerfile than to remove some installed packages
12:17:49 <mmaslano> vpavlin: yes, so minimal images of different LAMP servers?
12:17:53 <juhp_> https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/juhp/fedora-haskell-ghc/
12:17:57 <vpavlin> So all images/Dockerfiles we are going to provide should be minimal
12:18:08 <vpavlin> mmaslano: That might work
12:18:44 <mmaslano> #url https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/juhp/fedora-haskell-ghc/
12:19:25 <bkabrda> vpavlin: yes, minimal is what most people expect from image, afaik
12:19:26 <sicampbell> so would we provide a minimal LAMP image or expect people to use the base image and extend it ?
12:20:03 <mmaslano> I'd rather see some LAMP images. According to download we could say if it makes sense to maintain it or now
12:20:07 <mmaslano> s/now/not/
12:21:15 <sicampbell> ok
12:21:41 <vpavlin> mmaslano: Yes and as you can link github to the Docker index so that we can get pull requests if there is anything missing
12:22:26 <vpavlin> s/so that//
12:23:27 <vpavlin> We should probably pull scollier to this conversation as he maintains this - https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles
12:23:32 <vpavlin> #url https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles
12:23:43 <mmaslano> vpavlin: if you can put it as proposal, which we will use in PRD https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Product_Requirements_Document that would be great
12:24:01 <mmaslano> I guess we have to ask FESCo for agreement. Not sure about that, but they should know about it
12:24:25 <vpavlin> #info vpavlin will ask scollier to cooperate on Fedora Dockerfiles with WG
12:25:07 <mmaslano> great
12:25:50 <vpavlin> Is anybody aware of Docker use cases in Fedora?
12:26:07 <vpavlin> bkabrda uses it in DevAssistant...anything else?:-)
12:29:43 <sgallagh> vpavlin: I'm planning it as an implementation for some of the Server Roles (though probably not for F21)
12:29:45 <vpavlin> sicampbell: You said you start to use Docker at work - can you share your use case?
12:30:36 * mmaslano needs to leave now, vpavlin can chair the rest of meeting. Thanks :)
12:30:40 <juhp_> https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles/wiki/Guidelines-for-Creating-Dockerfiles
12:31:10 <sicampbell> They are mainly for running applications within a fedora container on something with an older stack e.g. RHEL
12:31:59 <vpavlin> sgallagh: That sounds good - is there any proposal or something like that already?
12:32:28 <bkabrda> vpavlin: we used docker while working on softwarecollections.org - we just needed the same development environment across different fedora/rhel workstations: https://github.com/misli/softwarecollections/blob/master/Dockerfile
12:32:52 <sgallagh> vpavlin: Nothing concrete yet. It's all in my head at the moment. We can discuss it after the meeting if you want
12:33:09 <vpavlin> sgallagh: Ok, thanks
12:34:21 <vpavlin> bkabrda: Yes, this is definitely the use case we should suggest to Fedora users
12:37:18 <sicampbell> vpavlin: agreed - this is essentially what we do to give both users and developers a consistent platform
12:37:32 <vpavlin> So I see two main use cases for Docker here - as development/testing environment and for running software that depends on something not packaged in the distribution
12:37:55 <sicampbell> sounds good
12:39:30 <vpavlin> I've seen Docker & copr integration mentioned somewhere earlier - just from top of my head - this could work like that you build your packages in copr, give it a Dockerfile and it prepares Docker image for you which you can pull and test - would something like this make sense?
12:40:48 <sicampbell> vpavlin: I think that could potentially be very useful
12:40:52 <juhp_> yes
12:41:08 <jreznik> btw. how does stacks & env wg docker plans go with cloud wg plans?
12:41:30 <jreznik> there are two F21 changes proposed - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Atomic_Cloud_Image?rd=Changes/Docker_Cloud_Image and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Docker_Container_Image
12:41:36 <bkabrda> vpavlin: much sense actually. I've been talking to some people from jboss about packaging their projects in copr; so let's just imagine we could offer a docker image with whole jboss prepared for anyone... sounds pretty neat :)
12:43:10 <vpavlin> jreznik: Good question - I need to check cloud wg plans...also not sure about base wg & Docker plans
12:43:29 <vpavlin> #info vpavlin to check with other WGs about their Docker plans
12:43:42 <jreznik> see the changes attached
12:44:02 <jreznik> docker is probably thing that touches all wgs somehow
12:44:06 <vpavlin> If anybody would like to volunteer for the Docker & copr idea, that would be great
12:44:12 <vpavlin> jreznik: Right
12:44:47 <jreznik> it's just fyi for you, something in this field is already happening
12:45:15 <juhp_> in a way it would make sense for the Base WG to "own" the base docker image?
12:45:51 <sicampbell> vpavlin: I am happy to volunteer, but I'm not sure where to start.  So I think I would need alot of hand holding
12:45:53 <vpavlin> jreznik: Yes, I am not going to reinvent the wheel - I'll definitely contact other WGs before we start to dig into it
12:47:15 <vpavlin> juhp_: Yes, that's my thinking too. I am going to attend Bas WG meeting on Friday and talk to them about the base images
12:47:47 <juhp_> cool
12:48:08 <vpavlin> #info sicampbell will take a look at Docker integration with copr
12:48:29 <vpavlin> sicampbell: Thanks!
12:48:46 <vpavlin> Anything else to the Docker topic right now?
12:49:31 <vpavlin> I see one more topic on agenda - Tasklist
12:51:04 <vpavlin> #topic Tasklist
12:51:52 <vpavlin> Is there anything to this topic?
12:53:11 <vpavlin> We could probably add some of the items from the Docker topic to task lis
12:53:12 <vpavlin> t
12:54:59 <vpavlin> #info vpavlin to add tasks related to Docker to tasklist
12:55:17 <vpavlin> Is there anything else to discuss or can we end this meeting?
12:56:30 <vpavlin> #endmeeting