06:02:16 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
06:02:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar  5 06:02:16 2014 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:02:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:02:16 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
06:02:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:02:17 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
06:02:17 <tagoh_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2014-03-05
06:02:26 <paragan> hi
06:02:31 <juhp> hi
06:02:32 <tagoh_> okay, shall we have i18n meeting now
06:02:38 <mfabian> Hi
06:03:17 <epico> hi
06:03:18 <fujiwarat> hi
06:04:44 <pravin_s> hi
06:05:45 <anish_> Hi
06:06:38 <tagoh_> okay, let's get started.
06:06:51 <tagoh_> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:06:51 <tagoh_> #info no earlier than 2014-04-01         Change Proposals Submission Deadline
06:06:52 <tagoh_> #info no earlier than August     Fedora 21 Final Release
06:07:02 <tagoh_> no detailed schedule yet
06:08:32 <juhp> seem Global Changes deadline was Monday
06:08:49 <juhp> System Wide Changes I think they are called..
06:09:16 <skore> hi
06:10:33 <tagoh_> juhp: aha
06:11:20 <juhp> but not yet for self-contained Changes I guess
06:13:22 <tagoh_> hm, okay
06:13:48 <juhp> the distinction seems a bit grey to me through
06:15:08 <tagoh_> that is mentioned at fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Policy
06:15:25 <tagoh_> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Policy
06:15:57 <juhp> right but the criteria seems somewhat vague to me
06:16:04 <juhp> seem
06:16:10 <juhp> anyway...
06:16:54 <tagoh_> okay... shall we move on
06:16:58 <tagoh_> #topic Outstanding topics
06:16:58 <tagoh_> #info #25: Bugs Corner (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:16:59 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/25
06:17:09 <tagoh_> any bugs we want to discuss today?
06:22:51 <tagoh_> if not, let's move on then.
06:22:57 <pravin_s> tagoh_: yes
06:23:13 <tagoh_> #info #26: proposal: IM and xkb UI design improvements (petersen)
06:23:13 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/26
06:24:08 <tagoh_> what's the next step for this? still need to discuss anything?
06:26:52 <juhp> I filed a bug for changing the order of the gnome indicator menu
06:27:04 <juhp> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725708
06:27:48 <juhp> I am not sure about how to fix the "expand IME menu (meaning input mode submenu) by default"
06:28:00 <tagoh_> aha
06:28:13 <juhp> fujiwarat, I remember I tried to ask about this but still a bit unclear about this part
06:28:38 <juhp> you said something about ibus-anthy could do that or perhaps I misunderstood
06:29:03 <juhp> I feel like it requires special treatment of input-mode
06:29:18 <juhp> or not just a ibus property
06:29:36 <mfabian> I also think it is nicer to have the menu for the current input method on top.
06:29:43 <juhp> ok good
06:30:10 <juhp> mfabian, maybe you proposed originally :)
06:30:16 <juhp> I am not sure :)
06:30:21 <fujiwarat> juhp: Ah probably I think it can be fixed in pinyin. anthy uses radio buttons and pinyin uses check buttons?
06:30:32 <mfabian> “Region/Lang conf” is not there anymore at the bottom in F20, would be conveninent if that came back.
06:30:49 <juhp> mfabian, ah yes you are right :(
06:30:54 <epico> juhp, that property has the fixed name "InputMode".
06:30:58 <juhp> I was testing in RHEL7
06:31:12 <epico> mfabian, yes
06:31:14 <juhp> epico, ah okay - then maybe it is good enough
06:31:26 <juhp> epico, for all IMEs? :)
06:31:37 <epico> juhp, I think so.
06:31:43 <epico> ibus used that name...
06:32:08 <epico> to get the input mode property.
06:32:18 <juhp> fujiwarat, ah well pinyin UI is separate issue I think specific to *pinyin I guess
06:32:23 <juhp> epico, thanks
06:32:29 <epico> welcome
06:32:46 <juhp> fujiwarat, my idea is that submenu should be expanded (open) by default for anthy, kkc, etc
06:32:56 <juhp> Input mode submenu
06:33:12 <juhp> or even not a submenu but that is probably harder to achieve
06:33:23 <fujiwarat> Ah, ok I remeber it. anthy changes both menu and menu items. e.g. "input mode (hiragana)" and "input mode (ascii)"
06:34:05 <juhp> hmm I need to retest anthy then - after we talked I thought i tested but didn't notice much difference - maybe I should try in rawhide?
06:34:26 <juhp> fujiwarat, so this can be fixed in ibus side?
06:34:38 <juhp> dueno, is it possible to do same for kkc?
06:34:58 <fujiwarat> if you like
06:35:03 <juhp> okay
06:35:18 <juhp> then perhaps I should file separate bugs for those
06:35:29 <juhp> fujiwarat, could it not be handled by ibus core?
06:36:08 <fujiwarat> juhp: Right. the ibus menu label is generated by each engine.
06:36:17 <juhp> I see
06:36:23 <juhp> okay
06:37:05 <juhp> feel like it would be nice if ibus provided input mode API for IMEs but I don't know the ibus architecture well enough
06:37:31 <juhp> and of course some don't have input modes
06:38:49 <fujiwarat> juhp: btw, now ibus-anthy shows another status icon for input mode.
06:38:58 <juhp> nice
06:39:27 <juhp> does anyone have any other action items for this ticket?
06:39:40 <juhp> or other things/rfe's missing?
06:40:45 <juhp> mfabian, I noted that Region/lang setup entry is for 3.8 in the bug
06:41:29 <fujiwarat> http://fujiwara.fedorapeople.org/ibus/20130912/ibus-anthy-input-mode.png
06:41:48 <epico> cool
06:44:28 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: does it appear regardless of running the desktop?
06:44:56 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: It checks if gnome-shell is running.
06:45:16 <tagoh_> so for non gnome desktops? aha
06:45:26 <fujiwarat> right
06:46:55 <fujiwarat> https://github.com/fujiwarat/ibus-anthy/commit/4d605b873bf4b0af2a337cd076175c8d0a703346
06:47:08 <fujiwarat> It's available in fedora.
06:48:55 <tagoh_> juhp: so what actions do we have at this moment to accomplish this topic?
06:50:13 <juhp> main one seems to be the xkb classification but that might be more longer term
06:50:28 <juhp> dunno when mfabian might have time to start looking at that too say
06:51:30 <tagoh_> not too much we can do in f21 or f22 perhaps then?
06:51:31 <juhp> not sure on the best way to track the remaining issues
06:51:53 <juhp> dunno but I hope we could start at least
06:52:29 <juhp> right now the classification would be more R&D - not completely clear yet how feasible it is to me
06:52:49 <juhp> I mean to automate it
06:53:02 <tagoh_> right
06:54:20 <mfabian> Yes, I don’t have a clear idea how the xkb classification could be done yet.
06:54:34 <juhp> I feel like there are more/other things that could be done too
06:55:31 <juhp> so options i see: leave the ticket as is, move to mfabian :) or close it for now and we could revisit/re-open later perhaps, hmm?
06:56:35 <juhp> anyway I hope this little project/effort was helpful to think more about the current IM UI design issues
06:57:42 <tagoh_> if it is a long term after that, maybe better close once and reopen as needed. so we don't need to stop at this ticket every weeks then.
06:58:47 <juhp> okay if that is better for the meeting workflow I think it is okay
06:59:13 <pravin_s> tagoh_: agree.
06:59:44 <juhp> but let me file bugs first for improving IME input mode menus then
07:00:05 <tagoh_> sure
07:00:17 <juhp> probably we could close it deferred next week then
07:02:42 <tagoh_> okay
07:03:17 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
07:03:27 <tagoh_> any other topics we want to share/discuss in this meeting?
07:04:25 <pravin_s> tagoh_: as you know i have proposed change for F21
07:04:49 <tagoh_> pravin_s: yep. added that to the dashboard.
07:04:57 <pravin_s> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Lohit_Odia_Gurumukhi
07:05:02 <pravin_s> thanks
07:05:13 <pravin_s> bit confused is it system-wide or single
07:05:30 <pravin_s> from the scope, since Anaconda and Libre office is involved looks like system wide
07:06:00 <tagoh_> I see someone is pointing out the same thing at the list
07:06:14 <pravin_s> tagoh_: exactly, Mirek is asking for same
07:06:53 <pravin_s> even, i have filled most of the sections of system-wide changes
07:08:52 <tagoh_> good to follow up on the list. and/or ask for changing as needed then. dunno if it's still acceptable since system-wide changes deadline went away as juhp said earlier in the meeting
07:10:02 <juhp> hmm yeah - I also feel ambiguity but perhaps Self-contained is good enough for this
07:10:12 <juhp> since it is only for one language I think
07:10:32 <juhp> it seems contained enough in that sense
07:11:00 <tagoh_> maybe
07:11:01 <pravin_s> juhp: yeah, me too think samde
07:11:06 <pravin_s> s/samde/same
07:11:21 <pravin_s> tagoh_: sure, i will reply on email and see how it goes
07:11:21 <juhp> I think the criteria should be made clearer for F22 though
07:12:05 <pravin_s> yeah, since we have dependencies on Anaconda, which is critical looks like FeSco is considering to make it system-wide
07:12:19 <juhp> I believe Fesco first meet today so theoretically it might still be possible to propose system wide though strictly it is too late
07:12:26 <juhp> pravin_s, I see
07:12:45 <juhp> or am I off-by-one?
07:13:27 <juhp> anyway yeah Fesco might request changing it to System wide which is also fine
07:14:05 <pravin_s> juhp: sure
07:16:01 <tagoh_> okay, anything else?
07:16:08 <pravin_s> tagoh_: nope, thanks :)
07:16:20 <tagoh_> anyone else?
07:16:36 <tagoh_> pravin_s: thanks for reminding me that btw
07:16:51 <tagoh_> if not, let's stop the meeting shortly
07:18:14 <tagoh_> alright. thanks everyone for the meeting!
07:18:18 <tagoh_> #endmeeting