14:00:05 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Feb 17 14:00:05 2014 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:05 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:05 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:15 * lnovich is here
14:01:09 * jhradilek <--
14:01:35 * pbokoc 
14:01:51 * roshi is here
14:01:55 * pkovar is here
14:01:59 * Capesteve waves
14:03:38 <randomuser> that's a good start, welcome everyone
14:03:56 <randomuser> the stragglers can speak up as they come in
14:04:11 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:04:20 <randomuser> so, how are we on Guides?
14:04:36 * pbokoc has nothing new to report
14:04:58 <lnovich> neither do i
14:05:38 <pbokoc> btw, what's the release date for F21?
14:05:49 <randomuser> pbokoc, reply hazy, try again later
14:06:02 <pbokoc> right :)
14:06:11 <Capesteve> Working hard to fix bugs
14:06:19 <randomuser> some big process changes in the works
14:06:54 <pbokoc> randomuser, you mean fedora.next?
14:07:42 <randomuser> pbokoc, right, that. And i think QA said enough is enough, we need time to catch up our tooling
14:08:10 <randomuser> ...so if we wanted to invest our time in some sort of tooling for RNs, this might be a unique opportunity
14:08:49 <roshi> That's pretty much it, a lot going into automation right now
14:09:05 * gomix is here.. ~
14:09:06 <roshi> For qa, that is
14:09:27 <lnovich> i heard there are to be different versions of Fedora
14:09:44 * zoglesby is late
14:09:58 <lnovich> how will that effect our work?
14:10:00 <randomuser> that's the idea, lnovich : workstation, server, cloud, others
14:10:13 <pbokoc> lnovich, that's Fedora.next... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora.next
14:10:26 <ciupicri> are there any "others" planned right now?
14:10:31 <randomuser> it'll affect our work however we want it to, I guess
14:10:37 * pbokoc can't wait to rewrite the entire install guide
14:10:38 <randomuser> ciupicri, just spins afaik
14:10:50 <lnovich> so will each guide now have 4 flavors?
14:11:05 <randomuser> no, they all draw from the same repos still
14:11:20 <pbokoc> lnovich, I think it's going to be similar to RHEL variants. You know, like RHEL is available as Server, Workstation, etc.
14:11:23 <randomuser> most all things will still apply to most all users
14:11:34 <ciupicri> what about the software collections?
14:11:42 <lnovich> will some packages be available to some and not others?
14:12:38 <randomuser> I would encourage everyone interested in following development of these products to subscribe to relevant lists - devel@, cloud@, desktop@ server@
14:12:47 <roshi> Everything is still going to be available to everyone
14:13:17 <pkovar> and @env-and-stacks :-)
14:13:44 <randomuser> I've put this discussion on the FAD agenda, btw
14:13:55 <lnovich> good idea randomuser
14:14:19 <randomuser> we don't have the resources to push a member onto the WGs, so it's mostly a pay attention and see what happens game at this point
14:14:26 <pbokoc> is the agenda available somewhere?
14:15:00 <randomuser> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_FAD_2014#Purpose
14:15:18 <pbokoc> oh right, I'm just blind
14:15:27 <randomuser> hrmm.. at least I thought I put it in there somewhere
14:16:02 <lnovich> we should put an agenda together
14:16:13 <pkovar> randomuser: i am actually in one of the WGs - env -and-stacks
14:16:23 <randomuser> please do add to the wiki, lnovich  :)
14:16:40 <pkovar> and there was a call for more docs people to join their WGs of interest
14:16:46 <lnovich> like I have any notion of what it should be?
14:16:49 <randomuser> pkovar, bah. shows how much I've actually been paying attention :)
14:16:50 <pkovar> when the WGs were forming last year
14:17:07 <lnovich> What's a WG?
14:17:13 <pkovar> but you can still join
14:17:23 <pkovar> any of the WGs if you want
14:17:25 <pbokoc> lnovich, working group
14:17:30 <lnovich> oh ok
14:17:34 <pkovar> there are all open
14:17:42 <lnovich> is there a list?
14:18:05 <pbokoc> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora.next :)
14:19:11 <randomuser> pkovar, is there anything coming for SLCs/rings/don't break my application, fedora ?
14:19:36 <randomuser> i know that was a big part pf Matt's proposal, but i'm missing the discussion on it these days
14:19:47 <pkovar> randomuser: yes, it's in the PRD: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Env_and_Stacks/Product_Requirements_Document
14:20:14 * randomuser needs to subscribe to the env-and-stacks list, didn't know it existed
14:20:26 <pkovar> Software Collections (SCLs)  and much more :-)
14:20:27 <lnovich> ok I updated the wiki
14:20:42 <lnovich> once we have a list of topics we can make a more formal schedule
14:21:29 <lnovich> will there be any new writers attending the FAD?
14:21:53 <randomuser> not that i'm aware of, lnovich
14:22:53 <lnovich> If we can figure out how to record the sessions the writers in australia would love to see it
14:23:04 <randomuser> hey pkovar - have you gotten any push back from the people that have been maintaining the packaging wiki pages re: packaging guide?
14:23:17 <randomuser> ie "i don't want that info where I can't easily change it" ?
14:24:37 <pkovar> randomuser:yes, there have been some conversations with package maintainers recently
14:25:02 <randomuser> on env-and-stacks@ ? I'll read the archive
14:25:15 <pkovar> more like irl
14:25:18 <pkovar> at devconf etc.
14:25:25 <randomuser> aah
14:25:58 <pkovar> one think is people want to keep the packaging guidelines in Packaging namespace on the wiki - makes sense
14:26:48 <randomuser> an actual guide has more gravity though, and potential for much better presentation, translation, etc
14:26:51 <pkovar> but then there are plenty of more or less outdated and unmaintained wiki tutorials
14:27:03 <pkovar> that i would like to replace with the packagers guide
14:27:16 <pkovar> randomuser: absolutely
14:27:37 <pkovar> i tried to cover this in the env stacks prd
14:27:50 * randomuser shakes head
14:27:54 <pkovar> keep the official guidelines where they are
14:28:06 <randomuser> i need to do some reading
14:28:10 <pkovar> maintained by the p committee
14:28:44 <pkovar> and provide a new getting started document for fedora contributors on docs.fp.o
14:28:55 <pkovar> we could still use wiki pages for draft content
14:29:08 <pkovar> submitted by packagers, eg
14:29:44 <pkovar> but that applies to any other guide we write for fedora i think
14:29:51 * randomuser nods
14:30:07 <randomuser> you know, it might be nice to "watch" a wiki page via list
14:30:24 <randomuser> ie subscribe docs-qa@ to the packaging guidelines
14:30:33 <randomuser> it's not like we're using it for anything else
14:30:45 <pkovar> yeah, true
14:31:25 <pkovar> otoh the packaging committee is sending announce emails whenever they change the official guidelines afaik
14:34:14 <randomuser> so a guide to replace the first few levels of http://fedoraproject.org/join-fedora is also being discussed, pkovar ?
14:35:19 <pkovar> randomuser: not that i know of. that would be out of scope for the env stack wg
14:35:32 <randomuser> ok, I misunderstood then
14:36:39 <pkovar> we were really only talking about wiki pages
14:36:52 <randomuser> let's move on to the FAD
14:36:53 <randomuser> #topic Docs FAD
14:38:02 <lnovich> is funding secure?
14:38:10 <lnovich> as in all set
14:39:35 <randomuser> #chair lnovich
14:39:35 <zodbot> Current chairs: lnovich randomuser
14:39:38 <randomuser> lnovich, will you lead this portion of the meeting please?
14:41:06 <lnovich> ok - sure as far as I know there is funding available and those who need it should have asked for it already correct?
14:42:49 <lnovich> The agenda will be built once we know the topics to be presented
14:43:15 <lnovich> so please put your ideas/requests here -->https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_FAD_2014
14:44:38 <lnovich> if you are attending, make sure your name is on the appropriate list
14:45:18 <jjmcd> Sorry - time got away from me
14:45:31 <lnovich> so far there are 5 attending in Brno and 7 in Raleigh
14:45:53 <lnovich> is anyone going whose name is NOT on the list?
14:46:14 <randomuser> jjmcd, you were thinking of bringing someone iirc?
14:46:43 <jjmcd> I was going to call N3LRX - haven't  done that yet - was out of town last week
14:47:07 <jjmcd> And I have a radiogram to Eric asking whether we will have the assets we need
14:47:08 <lnovich> We will need a few more topics for the agenda so please put your ideas on the wiki!
14:47:27 <randomuser> jjmcd, i can bring a soldering iron - but i'll probably be dangerous with it :)
14:47:56 <jjmcd> Well, my real concern is a radio and interface.  A big part of what we need to do is document how to configure that
14:48:07 <jjmcd> Its really tough trying to do it blind
14:48:32 <jjmcd> I have got one radio mostly working here, but another brand would be a big win, and I think Eric is a Kenwood guy
14:48:36 <jjmcd> <-- Icom
14:49:11 <jjmcd> I had to ressurect a kludge I build prolly 15 years ago to test ;-)
14:49:40 <randomuser> ha! well, please sort it out sometime soon
14:49:54 <lnovich> Are there any more announcements/questions regarding FAD?
14:50:12 <randomuser> nb is trying to keep track of our budget, and sparks is getting rooms - one extra person can make things difficult for them on short notice, jjmcd
14:50:32 <jjmcd> Yeah got that
14:50:52 <zoglesby> Any plans for remote participation?
14:51:07 <lnovich> how remote?
14:51:42 <jjmcd> zoglesby, one reason I'm dragging my feet is that I may be more productive remote
14:51:59 <zoglesby> lnovich: my house
14:52:07 <lnovich> timezone?
14:52:13 <zoglesby> EST
14:52:24 <randomuser> zoglesby, I can probably do some hacky webcam/irc stuff if the facilities don't accomodate
14:52:32 <randomuser> as in, i have a webcam
14:52:36 <lnovich> we could do google hangout
14:53:09 <jjmcd> Half of what I need to do takes radios and other hardware.  Not so sure building it there would be the best plan :)
14:53:16 * nb is here
14:53:26 <jjmcd> But if Eric is bringing the stuff ...
14:53:31 <randomuser> morning, nb
14:53:39 <nb> the only person i know of yet that we have plans from is me and randomuser
14:53:59 <nb> i think we really need to get them made like *now* so they can maybe be in this fiscal year
14:54:34 <randomuser> hrmm
14:54:34 <jjmcd> Bah - Randy isn't in #Fedora-Hams
14:54:55 <randomuser> i see him around #fedora* in the evenings jjmcd
14:55:01 <nb> jjmcd, he is in texas i think it is, until 2/20 or 3/20, i forget which
14:55:08 <jjmcd> ack
14:55:10 <randomuser> nb, etc - anyone heard from crantila?
14:55:16 * nb can grep his logs later
14:55:20 <nb> randomuser, let me look
14:56:31 <nb> randomuser, he never responded to my email i sent out asking if people were still going
14:57:02 * randomuser frowns
14:57:14 <nb> nor my second email telling people to book their plans
14:57:28 <nb> zoglesby, did you find out if you could attend?
14:57:44 <zoglesby> nb: I will know on Wed
14:57:46 <nb> ok
14:58:01 <randomuser> i think we can safely assume Sparks will be there
14:58:09 <zoglesby> nb: but I am not going to ask for funding if I come
14:58:15 <nb> oh ok
14:58:23 <nb> randomuser, yeah, i think so.
14:58:30 <nb> :)
14:58:47 <nb> jjmcd, are you coming to raleigh?
14:59:07 <jjmcd> nb, trying to figure out whether it is better to work from here
14:59:18 <jjmcd> I have asked Eric what he can bring
14:59:31 <nb> jjmcd, if you need ot bring stuff, we can either reimburse you for a checked baggage fee, or I can make you a UPS label that bills Fedora
14:59:35 <nb> same goes for Sparks
14:59:40 <jjmcd> But without radios, interfaces, TNCs, tough to document stuff you can't run
14:59:49 <randomuser> jjmcd, it depends on how high of a priority the ARG is compared to the rest, no?
15:00:03 <jjmcd> randomuser, yeah, I suppose there is something to that
15:00:18 <randomuser> i mean, if the whole thing is an ARG hackfest, i'll be useless
15:00:26 <nb> my main hope is to get the publican/koji website going
15:00:37 <zoglesby> nb: I think that was a main goal
15:00:37 <jjmcd> Well, I assumed me and Sparks would focus on that.
15:00:47 <jjmcd> nb, yes I would like to see that
15:00:52 <jjmcd> and prolly help, too
15:01:27 <zoglesby> but we called for the FAD because of concerns about participation in the group, so that needs to be a main focus
15:01:36 * randomuser checks the meeting schedule - nothing encroaching
15:01:43 <randomuser> zoglesby, +1
15:01:49 <nb> #info we have a sysadmin-docs FAS group now, which is for the people who need SSH access for docs-backend01.phx2.fedoraproject.org
15:02:16 <randomuser> that is my primary priority, discuss participation, improve process docs, improve process
15:02:19 <randomuser> discuss deliverables
15:02:22 <lnovich> we be out of time!
15:02:52 <zoglesby> nb: didn't we have that group already?
15:02:52 <jjmcd> Yeah, net is starting
15:02:59 <nb> lnovich, have you made your travel plans yet?
15:03:00 <nb> jjmcd, ?
15:03:10 <lnovich> working on them
15:03:21 * nb is tryign to get people reimbursed before the end of the month/fiscal year if possible
15:03:24 <jjmcd> MACS 3.952
15:03:33 <lnovich> may stay in Brno a few days more if the office will approve
15:03:53 <lnovich> but will book flight this week
15:04:16 <nb> lnovich, ok
15:04:52 <lnovich> I hate to say this but do we have a "snow day" plan
15:04:57 <nb> zoglesby, no we did not, we used sysadmin-web
15:05:06 <randomuser> ha!
15:05:08 <nb> which gives access to app* proxy*, etc
15:05:19 <zoglesby> nb: yeah I just looked at that
15:05:24 <nb> sysadmin-docs only gives us access to docs-backend01
15:05:56 <zoglesby> nb: so if we are in sysadmin-web do we still needed added to sysadmin-docs?
15:06:28 <nb> zoglesby, yes
15:06:34 <zoglesby> ok
15:06:41 <nb> zoglesby, you would like added?
15:06:43 * nb can do
15:06:50 <zoglesby> nb: yep
15:07:15 <nb> I am the only docs sponsor for sysadmin, rudi/rlandmann and I are both sponsors for sysadmin-docs
15:08:34 <randomuser> okay, let's wrap this up
15:08:36 <nb> <fedmsg-bot> fas.group.member.apply -- nb applied for zoglesby's membership in the sysadmin-docs group
15:08:36 <nb> <fedmsg-bot> fas.group.member.sponsor -- nb sponsored zoglesby's membership in the sysadmin-docs group
15:08:43 <nb> .members sysadmin-docs
15:08:44 <zodbot> nb: Members of sysadmin-docs: immanetize @nb +rlandmann sparks zoglesby
15:08:51 <zoglesby> randomuser: to get this back on track, I think we need to talk about the docs participation issue and get the publican stuff figured out as priorities for the FAD
15:09:25 <randomuser> zoglesby, keep it up, and I'll start nagging you to attend more
15:10:08 <jjmcd> randomuser, FYI, last week I got yet another task.  I don't think it will be too bad long term, but it is a bunch right now
15:10:58 * randomuser nods
15:11:07 <lnovich> ok end meeting?
15:11:17 <randomuser> yeah, i think so, lnovich
15:11:31 <randomuser> after party in #fedora-docs all
15:11:34 <randomuser> #endmeeting