06:02:25 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
06:02:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 17 06:02:25 2013 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:02:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:02:26 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
06:02:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:02:26 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
06:02:27 <tagoh_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2013-10-17
06:02:37 <pravin_s> hi
06:02:38 <skore> hi
06:02:41 <tagoh_> okay, let's have i18n meeting now
06:03:00 <paragan> hi
06:03:03 <epico> hi
06:03:39 <mfabian> Hi!
06:03:49 <juhp> hi
06:05:11 <dueno> hi
06:05:44 <tagoh_> let's get started then
06:06:32 <tagoh_> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:06:32 <tagoh_> #info 2013-10-29        Beta Release
06:06:33 <tagoh_> #info 2013-11-19        Final Change Deadline
06:06:33 <tagoh_> #info 2013-12-03        Fedora 20 Final Release
06:06:58 <tagoh_> as you know f20 is now on beta freeze
06:08:07 <tagoh_> about 2 weeks until our test day btw
06:08:15 <tagoh_> #topic Outstanding topics
06:08:15 <tagoh_> #info #25: Bugs Corner (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:08:16 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/25
06:08:30 <tagoh_> any bugs we want to discuss today?
06:08:38 <juhp> hmm
06:09:41 <juhp> too many bugs to choose from perhaps :)
06:10:04 <tagoh_> no blockers nor exceptions for i18n apparently though
06:10:52 <juhp> aha
06:11:06 <juhp> currently 90 New f19 bugs
06:11:13 <juhp> erm 80
06:12:07 <paragan> just want to mention one bug
06:12:29 <paragan> .bug 1019073
06:12:33 <zodbot> paragan: Bug 1019073 Focus is getting removed from the target window - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1019073
06:12:44 <paragan> I have been working on this since last 2 days
06:12:55 <paragan> and finally got fix by mutter upstream
06:13:10 <paragan> we need to make sure its fix gets available in F20 GA
06:13:26 <paragan> to make sure available OSK apps works fine
06:14:23 <anish_> Hi
06:14:26 <tagoh_> paragan: aha. then it should be proposed as exceptions
06:14:49 <paragan> I thought but not sure if qa people can think it as exception
06:14:58 <paragan> as those all OSK apps are options in comps
06:15:05 <paragan> *optional
06:15:38 <juhp> paragan, good
06:15:53 <tagoh_> right. then it won't be a blocker. let's leave it to them. they will review it and judge it according to the criteria then.
06:16:02 <juhp> paragan, seems quite reasonable exception
06:16:25 <paragan> can some one please propose it as exception then?
06:16:54 <juhp> done
06:16:59 <paragan> thx
06:17:00 <juhp> paragan, but you could also :)
06:17:09 <juhp> np
06:17:35 <juhp> of course doesn't mean it will be included :)
06:17:43 <paragan> ok
06:17:47 <juhp> anyway yeah hopefully it will be in final at least
06:18:10 <juhp> I have an unreported (I think) bug
06:18:22 <tagoh_> what's that?
06:18:36 <juhp> I think I may have mentioned already elsewhere
06:18:50 <juhp> (not here hopefully;)
06:19:06 <juhp> or maybe I did, anyway
06:19:41 <juhp> about removing keyboard layout source causing Input indicator to disappear then there is still a IME source
06:20:22 <tagoh_> aha
06:20:34 <mfabian> That is unreported you say?
06:22:21 <juhp> mfabian, well I didn't report it yet - meant to look at the code a bit first
06:22:36 <juhp> so just assuming so
06:23:05 <mfabian> I am not sure whether I understand it correctly. You remove the keyboard layouts and leave only ibus-kkc, right?
06:23:26 <juhp> right
06:23:37 <juhp> restarting gnome gives me the indicator again
06:24:09 <juhp> happens from both gnome-initial-setup and control-center
06:24:20 <mfabian> You mean if you do that in gnome-control-center region, the indicator vanishes?
06:24:30 <juhp> indeed
06:24:33 <mfabian> It did not vanish for me (gnome-classic). Tried just now.
06:24:41 <juhp> hmm
06:24:49 <mfabian> f20 beta tc4.
06:25:11 <juhp> let me retry later - pretty sure I saw it again with tc3 - I am just installing tc4 now
06:25:13 <mfabian> Should it vanish immediately?
06:25:17 <juhp> yep
06:25:57 <mfabian> It probably does not depend on gnome versus gnome-classic, I guess ...
06:26:02 <juhp> My RC3 install seems to have some serious performance issues but not sure what is wrong or if it is known?
06:26:12 <juhp> btw
06:27:20 <juhp> .bug 919861
06:27:21 <paragan> is tc4 working fine?
06:27:30 <zodbot> juhp: Bug 919861 "/etc/fonts/conf.d/65-wqy-zenhei.conf" is forcing Chinese locale user to use font "WenQuanYi Zen Hei" for non-Chinese characters. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=919861
06:27:34 <juhp> still installing here :)
06:27:36 <paragan> read some issues with tc4 compose in fedora-qa channel
06:27:41 <juhp> ah
06:27:55 <paragan> but not sure if they then resolved and released it
06:27:56 <juhp> I thought the problems were with tc3 bicbw
06:28:16 <juhp> (which was never announced I think?)
06:28:22 <mfabian> What performance problems with tc3?
06:28:39 <juhp> firefox slow scrolling for example
06:29:03 <juhp> not really sure on the cause - might be getting off-topic :)
06:29:45 <mfabian> The bug which annoys me most at the moment is
06:29:48 <mfabian> .bug 1010445
06:29:54 <juhp> epico, tagoh_: any more ideas on above wqy bug?
06:29:56 <zodbot> mfabian: Bug 1010445 Letters and icons missing/invisible in GUI - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1010445
06:30:06 <tagoh_> juhp: is it related to the graphic card maybe?
06:30:07 <juhp> mfabian, I saw some of those too
06:30:13 <juhp> tagoh_, perhaps
06:30:19 <juhp> kvm/qxl
06:30:49 <juhp> not sure if tc4 will be any better - since yum updating didn't help
06:30:50 <epico> nothing from me, as kde menu can't handle font fall back mechanism.
06:30:58 <juhp> hmm I see
06:31:00 <mfabian> In https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1010445#c8 Dave Airlie sys it is fixed but the fix is not yet in f20, I hope he is right and the fix will be in f20 soon, this is extremely annoying.
06:31:02 <juhp> right
06:31:10 <juhp> mfabian, ah okay
06:31:15 <juhp> thanks
06:34:04 <mfabian> juhp: the input-method indicator does indeed vanish for me in gnome (*not* gnome-classic!) So gnome-classic surprisingly behaves differently in that respect.
06:34:15 <juhp> mfabian, aha interesting
06:35:30 <mfabian> I thought there is little difference between gnome and gnome-classic, just some different colours, but maybe it is a bit more than that ...
06:35:44 <juhp> yea me too dunno
06:35:50 <tagoh_> well, about wqy, it depends on applications... as epico said if they don't have any fall back mechanism and always use the same font from first query, there are nothing to do in a font nor fontconfig
06:36:01 <juhp> right
06:36:08 <juhp> so cantfix?
06:36:22 <tagoh_> or reassign to that application maybe
06:36:38 <tagoh_> it shouldn't be wqy specific at least
06:37:39 <epico> juhp, unless application support font fall back mechanism, some blank squares may appears.
06:37:48 <tagoh_> right
06:37:59 <juhp> tagoh_, right
06:38:12 <juhp> qt?
06:38:23 <epico> juhp, guess kde main menu.
06:38:39 <epico> most qt app is okay, but some apps not.
06:38:45 <juhp> ah right
06:38:51 <juhp> so how about reassigning? :)
06:39:31 <epico> okay for me, or create a new one?
06:39:35 <epico> which component?
06:39:52 <juhp> (gnome-initial-setup startup is also really slow it seems)
06:40:17 <tagoh_> better ask reporter what apps do they see this issue?
06:41:40 <epico> tagoh_, I think the reporter's apps support font fall back mechanism.
06:41:50 <epico> he is asking to change the fontconfig, to enable it.
06:41:52 <mfabian> juhp: Now I tried again with gnome-classic and the indicator *did* disappear. So maybe a timing issue?
06:42:00 <epico> prepend an English font before Chinese font.
06:42:07 <juhp> mfabian, oh funny now indicator disappeared and then reappeared for me!
06:42:19 <juhp> mfabian, perhaps
06:43:29 <juhp> and then disapeared again!
06:43:47 <juhp> (I was moving back and forth in g-i-s)
06:43:53 <mfabian> While waiting?
06:44:08 <juhp> yeah
06:44:17 <mfabian> Ah, I am trying after the install is finished, not in g-i-s.
06:45:31 <mfabian> It seems to disappear almost always, so far it did not disappear for me only once when I tried it the very first time in gnome-classic.
06:46:14 <juhp> yeah - not sure what happened - same for me
06:48:18 <tagoh_> okay... well, the meeting time is a little tight and hard to debug in a timely manner. so please continue to work on it as needed after the meeting please :)
06:48:52 <juhp> sure
06:49:44 <tagoh_> maybe good to share a bug, update the status on it, and ask for some input at this time.
06:50:20 <juhp> yep
06:50:24 <tagoh_> anything else?
06:50:45 <mfabian> .bug 1019674
06:50:49 <juhp> mfabian, does #1010445 f19 mean it is a vm host issue?
06:50:49 <zodbot> mfabian: Bug 1019674 input method switching does not work in cinnamon - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1019674
06:51:40 <tagoh_> mfabian: duplicate
06:52:07 <mfabian> tagoh_: ah, which bug number?
06:52:43 <tagoh_> hold on...
06:52:55 <tagoh_> .bug 1017141
06:52:59 <zodbot> tagoh_: Bug 1017141 Please update imsettings to work with Cinnamon on F19, F20 and rawhide - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1017141
06:53:32 <mfabian> juhp: I think it is not a vm host issue, I saw that on real hardware as well and when googling for it I found many similar bugs on very different hardware on various distributions.
06:53:55 <tagoh_> mfabian: should be fixed in imsettings-1.6.6-1.fc20
06:54:37 <juhp> aha
06:54:47 <mfabian> tagoh_: I have imsettings-1.6.6-1.fc20.x86_64, the problem remains.
06:55:22 <tagoh_> mfabian: please attach your $HOME/.cache/imsettings/log in bz
06:57:06 <tagoh_> if there are any more bugs we need to focus on, please add url to https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/25 let's catch up in next meeting then
06:57:18 <tagoh_> better move on
06:57:33 <tagoh_> #info #26: proposal: move to using IMEs for ASCII/Latin input (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:57:33 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/26
06:58:19 <juhp> forgot to summarize previous discussion...
06:58:54 <tagoh_> looks like better postponing this topic to next meeting due to the remaining time
06:59:36 <tagoh_> #topic Outstanding task
06:59:36 <tagoh_> #info #23: Fedora 20 i18n test day (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:59:37 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/23
07:00:34 <tagoh_> so even though I remind on last meeting and irc yesterday, apparently no updates.. what's going on?
07:01:46 <tagoh_> no reports about most input test cases
07:02:57 <tagoh_> anish_, dueno, fujiwarat, mfabian, epico: ^
07:03:06 * epico think okay for Chinese imes.
07:03:46 <tagoh_> epico: both libpinyin and chewing? and no additional test cases for features etc?
07:04:00 <mfabian> I am wondering whether the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_ibus-typing-booster is “good enough” or could benefit from more details ...
07:04:41 <epico> tagoh_: no, as I am focusing on TC development.
07:04:50 <tagoh_> mfabian: was asking for updates if you wonder then :)
07:05:26 <juhp> mfabian, btw is there is good reason not to depend on pyhunspell by default?
07:05:32 <tagoh_> epico: apparently there are no one is familiar with chewing so was asking to check...
07:06:31 <juhp> mfabian, good enough is probably ok
07:06:37 <mfabian> juhp: one  could also use python enchant instead of pyhunspell (not implemented yet though)
07:06:46 <epico> tagoh_: chewing is also okay.
07:06:50 <mfabian> python enchant could serve the same purpose.
07:07:02 <tagoh_> epico: okay. thanks
07:07:11 <epico> tagoh_: welcome
07:07:55 <tagoh_> mfabian: also good to check the language coverage on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-10-29_i18n/Results/Input_lang for i-t-b
07:08:44 <tagoh_> dueno: how about kkc?
07:08:50 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: how about ibus?
07:09:14 <mfabian> I was hesitating to depend on pyhunspell only because I didn’t want to introduce unnecessary dependencies, I could check at runtime in i-t-b whether python-enchant is installed and use that instead of pyhunspell ... Depending on "either pyhunspell or python-enchant" is probably not possible?
07:09:20 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: I think the current regression tests would be enough for ibus.
07:10:23 <mfabian> tagoh_: language coverage is unchanged. I’ll add more language soon though ...
07:11:09 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Gnome_Input_Method_Integration_IBus looks like outdated at least though, is it still "enough"?
07:12:25 <tagoh_> mfabian: sure.
07:13:16 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: we could just drop it perhaps if we don't need it anymore
07:13:17 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: I think so. Do you mean the listed bugs in the page?
07:14:05 <juhp> why "yum install yum-langpacks" ?
07:14:24 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: well, may get confused on screenshot say
07:14:32 <juhp> indeed
07:15:40 <juhp> lijli, does QA want to have a look over the testcases too?
07:17:44 <juhp> fujiwarat, yeah I am also not sure if that page is still needed?
07:17:56 <juhp> what is its purpose?
07:18:14 <fujiwarat> I don't know who created that page.
07:18:38 <tagoh_> I think it was to test the feature of GNOME ibus integration
07:18:59 <juhp> yeah
07:19:13 <juhp> should we just drop it or should it be revamped?
07:19:16 * fujiwarat is taking a screenshot...
07:19:23 <tagoh_> it could be used for any features test cases for GNOME specific but anyway
07:19:31 <juhp> right
07:19:42 <tagoh_> otherwise better just drop it at this moment
07:19:45 <juhp> maybe control-center etc?
07:20:00 <tagoh_> an idea, yes
07:20:01 <juhp> I think we some gnome ibus testcases
07:20:17 <juhp> or tests at least
07:20:20 <juhp> fujiwarat, thanks
07:20:48 <juhp> fujiwarat, probably good to add something on control-center configuration too
07:21:18 <juhp> (in addition to the indicator)
07:21:21 <fujiwarat> ok, i see.
07:21:22 <tagoh_> juhp: setup phase is covered by other sub-test case
07:21:30 <juhp> ah
07:21:36 <juhp> for gnome?
07:21:44 <juhp> okay
07:21:47 <tagoh_> it is shared by engines test cases too
07:21:54 <juhp> I see
07:22:01 <tagoh_> that's why it is a separate
07:22:09 <juhp> ah yeah
07:22:20 <juhp> so maybe just indicator then
07:22:40 <juhp> or could be generic then perhaps too?
07:22:59 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: is there any concerns about GNOME specific on ibus?
07:23:21 <tagoh_> if not, let's drop it then
07:24:13 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: I have no specific concerns.
07:24:26 <tagoh_> I see
07:25:52 <tagoh_> okay, add a comment to the ticket for i-t-b, kkc, hangul and bogo.
07:26:12 <tagoh_> let's move on
07:26:19 <tagoh_> #topic New topic
07:26:19 <tagoh_> #info #27: Thursday to Wednesday for the meeting (tagoh)
07:26:19 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/27
07:26:29 <tagoh_> sorry for long meeting. hopefully this topic is last one
07:27:20 <tagoh_> I'd like to propose the change of a day of the week from Thursday to Wednesday
07:28:27 <tagoh_> the background of this proposal is because most events at Fedora usually happens Tuesday.
07:28:59 <tagoh_> when there are holiday Monday that means we have only 1 or 2 days to work on something
07:29:52 <juhp> yeah
07:29:53 <tagoh_> so I want to change it to have more working time as much as possible with this change.
07:29:55 <mfabian> Wednesday is fine for me, doesn’t seem to conflict with anything.
07:31:59 <tagoh_> any objections?
07:34:35 <tagoh_> so are you guys okay with changing the meeting time to Wednesday right?
07:35:21 <mfabian> 👍
07:36:20 <epico_> np
07:36:32 <tagoh_> okay, assuming you all agree with it. so let's have a meeting Wednesday from next week then.
07:36:40 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
07:36:57 <tagoh_> any other topics we want to discuss before stop this meeting?
07:38:58 <tagoh_> if not, stop here then.
07:39:07 <tagoh_> thanks everyone for the meeting!
07:39:11 <tagoh_> #endmeeting