14:05:09 <randomuser`> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:05:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 13 14:05:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is randomuser`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:05:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:05:09 <randomuser`> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:05:09 <randomuser`> #topic Roll Call
14:05:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:05:19 <bcotton> 
14:05:31 <randomuser`> morning bcotton
14:05:54 * pkovar1 is here
14:05:59 <bcotton> hi randomuser`
14:06:01 * jjmcd__ Exciting day on IRC today :-)
14:06:28 <randomuser`> yeah, i was pretty isolated there for a bit
14:06:48 <randomuser`> Sparks is somehow in all sides of the netsplit
14:07:16 <jjmcd__> Sparks must have better seat belts
14:09:11 <randomuser`> hrm
14:09:14 <zodbot> randomuser`: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
14:09:15 <randomuser`> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:09:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:09:15 <randomuser`> #topic Roll Call
14:09:23 <randomuser`> let's get started, then
14:09:40 <randomuser`> #topic follow up on last week's action items
14:10:09 <Sparks> Okay, I'll start then.
14:10:17 <randomuser`> we have no leftover action items
14:10:21 <randomuser`> #chair Sparks
14:10:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks randomuser`
14:10:34 <zodbot> Sparks: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
14:10:38 <Sparks> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:10:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:10:44 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
14:10:54 * randomuser` chuckles
14:10:59 * Sparks is here
14:11:15 <jjmcd__> gotta love it when a plan comes together
14:11:55 <zodbot> Sparks: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
14:12:07 * Sparks sees if zodbot is awake yet
14:12:23 * Sparks is here
14:12:25 <Sparks> :)
14:12:29 <randomuser`> Sparks, you are outside of time and space; the world moves on around you
14:12:55 <randomuser`> #topic RElease Notes
14:12:58 <jjmcd> I wonder if we have some sort of unidirectional netsplit
14:13:17 <randomuser`> So, release notes RPM is due today
14:13:21 <Guest56247> frick
14:13:30 <jjmcd> yikes
14:13:50 <jjmcd> randomuser`, but with your new script, that's a piece of cake, right?
14:13:57 <randomuser`> ...not sure *when* though
14:14:21 <randomuser`> jjmcd, yes, we just have to `git tag version` basically and it just works
14:14:21 * LoKoMurdoK here
14:14:30 <jjmcd> randomuser`, you'll be ok if it gets done by 2359Z
14:14:50 <randomuser`> jjmcd, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Immanetize/Packaging_Docs_in_an_RPM
14:14:58 <randomuser`> ah, good :)
14:15:22 <randomuser`> I'll do it later today then, to give opportunity for review
14:17:04 <randomuser`> hrmm
14:17:21 <randomuser`> this meeting isn't very effective, I propose we reschedule
14:17:58 <lnovich> hey random user
14:18:08 <randomuser`> hey lnovich
14:18:09 <lnovich> who else is here?
14:19:06 <randomuser`> jjmcd bcotton and Sparks have spoken up, with varying degrees of efficacy
14:19:19 <Sparks> I'm here... I think
14:19:23 <randomuser`> #Topic guides status
14:19:36 <randomuser`> Since we have this on the schedule...
14:19:52 <randomuser`> Are we maintaining the guides status table? Any guide writers need a hand?
14:20:08 * Sparks is behind on the Security Guide
14:20:18 <Sparks> ...or at least behind where I wanted to be
14:20:42 * lnovich is behind as well
14:21:03 <lnovich> have another change planned for the next Fedora version
14:21:19 <randomuser`> The RNs might give you folks some fodder
14:21:21 <lnovich> and this change has taken a lot of time
14:21:27 <Sparks> The OpenSSH Guide is with the translators now
14:22:02 <randomuser`> lnovich, oh? for which guide?
14:22:12 <lnovich> Well that is part of the issue
14:22:50 <lnovich> The Virtualization Administration Guide and the Virtualization Host Configuration and Guest Installation Guides are to be merged
14:22:54 <lnovich> into one guide
14:23:21 <lnovich> and then renamed
14:23:35 <randomuser`> okay
14:23:36 <lnovich> so it is a bit messy, but once done is much better
14:23:57 <lnovich> the new guide is to be the Virtualization Deployment and Administration Guide
14:24:44 <randomuser`> lnovich, makes sense to me; how can we help?
14:25:09 <lnovich> 1. I am very new in the Fedora scheme of things and have very little GIT experience
14:25:39 <lnovich> so i am wondering which method is best
14:25:41 <lnovich> a merge or a new tree altogether
14:26:20 <randomuser`> i'm not sure git is the right tool to actually merge the content, if that's what you're asking
14:26:30 <lnovich> not the content
14:26:33 <lnovich> the repo
14:27:00 <lnovich> do i merge the 2 repos or do i make a new one
14:27:13 <randomuser`> oh, make a new one
14:27:33 <lnovich> ok - i will find the info on that
14:27:34 <randomuser`> I'd think that would be preferrable, so we can retain the history
14:27:42 <lnovich> ok
14:27:58 <lnovich> and then i will update the wiki page once I got it all together
14:28:17 <lnovich> my first 'draft' should be available in a few days time
14:28:29 <lnovich> do i make it a 'draft' or a final copy?
14:28:38 <randomuser`> wow, so soon
14:28:54 <randomuser`> lnovich, draft status is your call
14:29:27 <lnovich> the book is being built in 3 stages - first stage is a messy  to cleaned up merge where no new content is added
14:29:42 <lnovich> second stage has new content and that one is sent for review
14:29:51 <lnovich> third stage is final copy
14:30:04 <lnovich> does that make sense?
14:30:37 <randomuser`> sounds like an appropriate workflow, sure
14:30:37 <lnovich> IMHO, until it is reviewed and tested it should stay as draft
14:31:19 <lnovich> i did manage to get myself a lab where i can run Fedora and have the ability to do all the testing myself
14:31:40 <randomuser`> lnovich, i personally wouldn't leave it in draft too long, at some point you have to have confidence in your work and the users' ability to think critically
14:31:54 <lnovich> ok good point randomuser
14:32:13 <lnovich> i plan to get it out of draft sometime between beta and GA
14:32:28 <randomuser`> great, thanks
14:33:54 * randomuser` ponders the next topic
14:34:04 <lnovich> yes please move on
14:34:08 <randomuser`> Sparks, what am I about to forget?
14:34:08 * lnovich is done
14:35:28 <randomuser`> #topic Outstanding BZ tickets
14:35:43 <randomuser`> #undo
14:35:43 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x245ba3d0>
14:36:05 <randomuser`> #info lnovich is merging virt guides and expects to have it published by GA release
14:36:08 <randomuser`> #topic Outstanding BZ tickets
14:36:17 <randomuser`> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:37:56 <randomuser`> it looks like there's quite a few new bugs there to clean up
14:38:42 <randomuser`> oh, i see; the RH writers are using tracking bugs
14:39:22 <randomuser`> as a community writer that worries about redundant effort, i appreciate that.
14:39:35 <lnovich> we aim to please
14:40:39 <randomuser`> last call for bug talk?
14:42:15 <randomuser`> #info check guides for tracking bugs and consult guide owners
14:42:27 <randomuser`> #topic Open Floor Discussion
14:42:41 * jjmcd had a strange idea
14:43:04 <jjmcd> We should open the beats for the next release when the compose freezes for the previous
14:43:13 <jjmcd> i.e. about 2 weeks before GA
14:43:50 <jjmcd> Thinking is that developers have moved on, and that is when they are working on their stuff and excited about it
14:44:07 <jjmcd> By the time we ask them for input, they have moved on to the next thing
14:44:18 <randomuser`> good point
14:44:26 <jjmcd> Often the upstream release notes are crap, so we have little to go on
14:44:35 <randomuser`> we're well into the freeze when we're writing
14:44:55 <jjmcd> but likely the maintainers are passionate about some change we don't even recognize
14:45:33 <jjmcd> And by the freeze, the stuff we're writing about is old news to the maintainers
14:45:51 <jjmcd> They might not even remember what they were geeked about way back when
14:45:53 <randomuser`> rawhide release notes, then? :)
14:46:05 <jjmcd> Actually, that might not be a bad plan
14:46:23 <randomuser`> grab changes as the occur and throw them on the wiki
14:46:31 <jjmcd> Yes
14:47:02 <jjmcd> And with the availability of $35 computers, no reason we can't run rawhide even if we don't have some huge server farm
14:47:29 <randomuser`> i've got a box i was thinking of riding rawhide with
14:48:06 <randomuser`> i've got some python spaghetti to check for version bumps and scrape changelogs that could be cooked too
14:48:27 <randomuser`> ...very crude spaghetti
14:48:38 <jjmcd> Yes, if we can catch changes at the time the devs care we might get more response from them
14:49:00 <randomuser`> jjmcd, let
14:49:02 <randomuser`> hrm
14:49:15 <randomuser`> let's develop the thought on the list?
14:49:24 <jjmcd> sounds like a plan to me
14:50:23 <randomuser`> if we can make that work, we can be entirely in proofread/translate mode during the freeze
14:50:25 <jjmcd> I'll compose something for the list
14:50:32 <jjmcd> zacly
14:50:47 <randomuser`> #action jjmcd to mail the list re: starting beats sooner
14:51:14 <jjmcd> I'll cc the dev list on it to see if there's any feedback there
14:51:28 <randomuser`> good idea
14:51:51 <randomuser`> I like any opportunity to remind devs that there's a docs team backing them up
14:52:05 <jjmcd> :)
14:53:14 <lnovich> +1
14:54:30 <randomuser`> oh, a bit late now to topic it, but is anyone going to flock?
14:54:45 <lnovich> not me
14:55:27 <randomuser`> jjmcd, surely there's a contingency plan for your absence?
14:55:45 <jjmcd> Yeah, you
14:55:50 <randomuser`> heh
14:56:10 <randomuser`> "uhh... helicopters! Fix it with helicoptering!"
14:57:46 <lnovich> hmm looks interesting!
14:57:47 * jjmcd is actually looking for someone to hang out the door of a State Police helicopter with an ATV camera
14:58:25 <randomuser`> jjmcd, we have 'smoke jumpers' here that would find that pretty tame
14:58:46 <jjmcd> Trouble is, most hams are old guys who know better
14:59:15 <randomuser`> hehe
14:59:37 <randomuser`> we should wrap it up here, thanks for coming all
14:59:40 <randomuser`> #endmeeting