21:01:03 <cwickert> #startmeeting EMEA ambassadors meeting 2012-12-05
21:01:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec  5 21:01:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:01:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:01:31 <affix> Hello
21:01:50 <cwickert> #meetingname EMEA ambasssadors
21:01:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'emea_ambasssadors'
21:02:02 <cwickert> #topic Roll call
21:02:05 <gnokii> .fas gnokii
21:02:05 <zodbot> gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de>
21:02:06 <cwickert> #fas cwickert
21:02:11 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
21:02:11 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
21:02:14 <giallu> .fas giallu
21:02:15 <mailga> .fas mailga
21:02:15 <zodbot> giallu: giallu 'Gianluca Sforna' <giallu@gmail.com>
21:02:15 <cmpahar> .fas cmpahar
21:02:18 <zodbot> mailga: mailga 'Gabriele Trombini' <mailga@fedoraonline.it>
21:02:21 <zodbot> cmpahar: cmpahar 'Christos Bacharakis' <cmpahar@gmail.com>
21:02:30 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
21:02:30 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
21:03:00 <jreznik> .fas jreznik
21:03:01 <zodbot> jreznik: jreznik 'Jaroslav Reznik' <jreznik@redhat.com>
21:03:07 * Viking-Ice lurking
21:03:13 <cwickert> anybody else?
21:03:27 <cwickert> Viking-Ice: don't just lurk, participate
21:03:34 <cwickert> #topic announcements
21:04:33 <anishjp> my nick is not registered but I am listening!
21:05:01 <cwickert> #info Elections for the Fedora Board, FAmSCo and FESCo are open! Vote now at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting - deadline is 23:59:59 UTC on the December 9! VOTE VOTE VOTE!
21:05:36 <frankice> #help
21:06:09 <cwickert> #info FAD EMEA this weekend. Join us in Rheinfelden or on #fedora-fad. We have a lot of things to discuss, agenda is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_EMEA_2012
21:06:16 <cwickert> any other announcements?
21:06:48 <frankice> .fas frankice
21:06:48 <zodbot> frankice: frankice 'Franklin Odoemenam' <frankpeter2010@yahoo.com>
21:07:48 <cwickert> welcome!
21:08:00 <robyduck> cwickert: nothing, just: Beta is released :)
21:08:08 <affix> .fas affix
21:08:08 <zodbot> affix: pyrox 'Keiran Smith' <jan@fedoraproject.org> - affix 'Keiran Smith' <fedora@affix.me>
21:08:08 <cwickert> ok, no more announcements, lets move on
21:08:41 <twohot> .fas twohot
21:08:41 <zodbot> twohot: twohot 'Onyeibo Oku' <twohotis@gmail.com>
21:09:09 <cwickert> #topic Ambassadors schedule
21:09:15 <cwickert> #link http://jreznik.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-ambassadors-tasks.html
21:09:20 <cwickert> lets see what we have...
21:09:53 <cwickert> because of all the delays, the ambassadors schedule was delayed, too
21:10:14 <cwickert> but that gives us the chance to do more release events :)
21:10:42 <giallu> cwickert, the uncertainty of the release date is also a problem for planning
21:10:56 <cwickert> true
21:11:00 <cwickert> don't be to optimistic
21:11:19 <affix> I don't think there are much more things that can delay the final release now
21:11:34 <cwickert> jreznik_n9: what is the status of F18 overall?
21:11:34 <giallu> affix, probably also true
21:11:36 <Viking-Ice> cross your fingers ;)
21:11:44 * cwickert knocks on wood
21:12:14 <affix> i've been running F18 since alpha with little or no issues
21:13:06 <cwickert> we have a terrible lack of release events
21:13:11 <cwickert> have a look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F18_release_events#EMEA
21:13:23 <cwickert> only a single event? that cannot be true :(
21:13:27 <zoltanh7211> .fas zoltanh721
21:13:27 <zodbot> zoltanh7211: zoltanh721 'Hoppár Zoltán' <hopparz@gmail.com>
21:13:46 <affix> cwickert: I will see if I can plan one for the UK
21:14:05 <affix> Discordian and I were planning on one for F17 but stuff happened and it never went ahead
21:14:26 <cwickert> #info We need way more release events, we only have a single event in EMEA so far. you can still submit your event and funding request till December 14th. For more info, see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F18_release_events
21:14:49 <giallu> cwickert, not sure about other countries, but in Italy we have a clear lack of initiative outside a small group (that you probably know :)
21:15:15 <cwickert> #info F18 release is scheduled for January 8th, but when you plan an event, please keep in mind it might be delayed for another week or two.
21:15:36 <cwickert> giallu: that is another issue I'd like to discuss later
21:15:40 <giallu> ok
21:15:44 * robyduck remember we considered also the difficulty to produce Multi-DVD in time for release events near Christmas
21:16:04 <cwickert> yes, lets look at the other things from the schedule
21:16:14 <cwickert> I have no idea what the state of media production it
21:16:15 <cwickert> is
21:16:26 <cwickert> but once we have an ISO, we should be pretty quick
21:16:42 <robyduck> hopefully this will not be any more a problem, if the final release delays one or two weeks more
21:16:42 <cwickert> AFAIK Jiri prepared everything, the paperwork is already done
21:18:00 <cwickert> #info media production takes a 7-10 days, then add a few days for shipping. media should be available at your place ~ 2 weeks after GA, that is January 22
21:18:02 * giallu trusts Jiri's powers :)
21:18:24 <cwickert> ok, from a swag POV everything looks fine
21:18:34 <cwickert> we ordered baseball caps and mugs
21:18:46 <cwickert> we have plenty of stickers and case badges
21:18:48 * affix wants a cap and a mug :P
21:18:54 <cwickert> not sure about shirts though
21:19:08 <cwickert> gnokii_: do you know if there was any progress with the shirts?
21:19:28 <giallu> cwickert, do we have design for shirts?
21:19:36 <gnokii> no progress because I dont know anything, I missed fudcon ;)
21:19:36 <cwickert> we wanted to do a "Fedora Contributor" shirt as a reward for our people
21:19:50 <cwickert> we talked to you during fudcon
21:20:11 <cwickert> gnokii: how many designs are ready?
21:20:21 <gnokii> yes, but all I know superhero isnt what u want, none
21:20:22 <cwickert> I mean, is there something we could just take NOW and run?
21:20:28 * twohot likes the swags
21:20:30 <cwickert> we didn't say that
21:20:46 <cwickert> there was a particular issue with one of the shirts
21:20:59 <gnokii> superhero would be the right message for the contributors
21:21:01 <cwickert> but I think there was one which most liked
21:21:09 <cwickert> too bad Jiri is not here
21:21:25 <cwickert> #action cwickert to get back to Jiri about the shirts, we want them ASAP
21:21:35 <cwickert> I think we need to order them before the end of the year
21:21:44 <cwickert> and we need to place a big order
21:22:04 <cwickert> any other swag?
21:22:12 <gnokii> ok, cwickert we can do this week an design
21:22:24 <cwickert> gnokii: ok, cool
21:22:29 <cwickert> we'll get back to you
21:22:34 <dramsey> 8-)+1 for cool swags8-)
21:23:11 <cwickert> ok, any other requests?
21:23:25 <cwickert> anything you need from me, from FAmSCo or so?
21:23:53 <cwickert> #info budget requests should now be filed in the EMEA swag tracker and no longer in FAmSCo's track.
21:24:13 <twohot> do we have stickers, and give-away bags?
21:24:29 <giallu> cwickert, we used that for the FAD ones
21:24:45 <giallu> we is me, Gabriele/Robert and Jiri
21:24:51 <cwickert> I know
21:24:53 <giallu> k
21:25:07 <cwickert> twohot: yes, we have stickers, we have some other stuff, too
21:25:13 <cwickert> but we don't have bags
21:25:36 <cwickert> twohot: you mean a whole bag of different swags?
21:26:47 <robyduck> cwickert: at what point are we with the dedicated EMEA track? (instead of using the swag one)
21:27:16 <cwickert> robyduck: we'll continue to use it
21:27:24 <cwickert> but we'll probably move it
21:27:29 <cwickert> and enhace it
21:27:45 <robyduck> that would be better indeed
21:27:49 <cwickert> #action cwickert to work on the EMEA trac insatance
21:28:23 <cwickert> ok, any other business that is time critical and has something to do with our schedule?
21:28:40 * giallu can't think of any
21:29:37 <cwickert> #topic Events
21:29:57 <cwickert> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events#FY13_Q4_.28December_2012_-_February_2013.29_2
21:30:17 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: you are running an event this weekend
21:30:27 <cwickert> everything set?
21:30:29 <zoltanh7211> cwickert. yes
21:30:49 <cwickert> cool
21:30:57 <cwickert> looking forward to your report later
21:31:03 <zoltanh7211> we have some swag left, but if somebody wants to attend from brno - would be nice to have more swag
21:31:06 <netSys> Hello
21:31:33 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: well, it's too late to send you something now
21:31:48 <zoltanh7211> cwickert: yes, I know, np
21:31:52 <cwickert> so the only option is if somebody comes by
21:32:39 <cwickert> #info Fedora will be at http://konf.fsf.hu/cgis/ossc this weekend, you can still support Zoltan and Gergily by showing up and bringing some swag with you
21:32:53 <cwickert> ok, not much in December
21:32:57 <cwickert> holidays....
21:33:01 <zoltanh7211> we'll have one talk by Gergely - he is in the official shedule, with gaming on fedora
21:33:10 <cwickert> cool
21:33:14 <cwickert> nothing in January either
21:33:33 <cwickert> but in February we have two major events: FOSDEM and Red Hat developer conference
21:33:45 <cwickert> both are HUGE and important
21:34:19 <cwickert> but both are more developer oriented than for promotion
21:34:24 <gnokii> !
21:34:52 <cwickert> however, if we decide to do something ambassadors related at one or the other place, we might just need to agree on it and meet
21:35:10 * cwickert checks for the deadlines...
21:35:12 <giallu> cwickert, about the FOSDEM. I am considering to attend (never been there). Is that compatible with helping with the booth and everything?
21:36:45 <cwickert> giallu: yes, but it's mainly compatible with drinking beer ;)
21:37:01 <cwickert> if you can do that, you are welcome to attend and help us :D
21:37:24 <cwickert> no kidding: FOSDEM is the only event where people drink beer on the event throughout the day
21:37:46 <cwickert> but it's a very good event, you see the greatest and most important people
21:38:02 <giallu> whoa
21:38:13 <cwickert> #info cwickert registered Fedora at FOSDEM, booth is not yet confirmed
21:38:29 <gnokii> sesivany wrote a mail last week he did the page, think would be fine he keeps organizing it, Robyn said we should do something spcial at fosdem
21:38:53 <cwickert> yes, we have some pans
21:38:57 <cwickert> be prepared :)
21:39:04 <rbergeron> pans for beer
21:39:11 <rbergeron> :D
21:39:18 <cwickert> for devconf there is not much to do
21:39:30 <cwickert> the Brno folks will take care of everything
21:39:38 <cwickert> so lets focus on FOSDEM
21:39:49 <gnokii> rbergeron beer is for suse we offer energy drinks suits fedora better
21:40:37 <gnokii> or milk because of the cow :D
21:40:47 <rbergeron> lol
21:40:52 <cwickert> #info if you want to attend FOSDEM, please register at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2013
21:41:26 <cwickert> one note: in the past we did not consider FOSDEM "an ambassadors event" but a developers event
21:41:42 <cwickert> and therefor we usually did not fund people to go there
21:42:02 <cwickert> you can only receive funding, if you are doing booth service
21:42:04 <rbergeron> unless presenting?
21:42:15 <cwickert> unless doing *something*
21:42:31 <cwickert> and by "something" I don't mean attend talks and drink beer
21:42:52 <cwickert> if you are giving a talk or helping at the booth, sponsorship shouldn't be a problem
21:42:58 <rbergeron> nod
21:43:05 <cwickert> I want a strong Fedora presence and a good show this year
21:43:41 <rbergeron> i can gice that three thumbs up
21:43:44 <rbergeron> give
21:44:22 <cwickert> #info most deadlines for FOSDEM are due, but you can still submit a lightning talk till December 21st, see https://fosdem.org/2013/call_for_lightningtalks/
21:44:53 <cwickert> does anybody know if we have any talks?
21:45:25 <cwickert> I am sure some RH folks have some, but I don't think we are in the cross distro devroom or anything
21:45:27 <giallu> no idea
21:45:32 <cwickert> too bad
21:45:43 <cwickert> ok, anything else on FOSDEM?
21:46:42 <cwickert> doesn't seem so
21:46:57 <cwickert> any other events?
21:47:22 <gnokii> just for the germans
21:47:39 <cwickert> which ones?
21:47:46 <gnokii> clt
21:48:03 <cwickert> that's on the next quarter and fiscal year
21:48:25 <cwickert> still plenty of time, but planing ahead doesn't hurt
21:49:10 <cwickert> #info Chemnitzer Linux-Tage take place March 16th + 17th, 2013
21:49:24 <cwickert> gnokii: do we have a wiki page already?
21:49:50 <gnokii> no, will do it this week
21:50:18 <cwickert> yes we have: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Chemnitzer_Linuxtage_2013
21:50:22 <gnokii> just mark the deadline for talks/workshops 7th January
21:50:52 <cwickert> feel free to do so
21:51:06 <cwickert> ok, that's all I have
21:51:18 <cwickert> #topic Action items from previous meetings
21:51:37 <cwickert> as I didn't attend for quite a while, I can hardly say anything about this, sorry
21:51:56 <cwickert> anybody else? did you have an action item and did you do it?
21:53:01 <cwickert> doesn't seem so
21:53:02 * giallu looks around ...
21:53:06 <robyduck> !
21:53:07 <cwickert> #topic Open Floor
21:53:14 <cwickert> robyduck: speak up
21:53:35 <robyduck> We asked about announcement about the delay of F18, to be done by FPL
21:53:44 <robyduck> As far as I remember
21:54:05 <robyduck> there are still many people asking about the reason
21:54:47 <giallu> yeah. this was discussed last time IIRC
21:55:16 <giallu> maybe rbergeron can say if she agrees with this?
21:55:17 * rbergeron thinks this got sent over to the marketing list. I can prod it along there but it seems to have gotten little movement in terms of "yes, do this"
21:56:00 <rbergeron> I think it's a reasonable idea but the best way to deliver (blog? "official announcement" or etc) without setting fires is the key
21:56:11 <cwickert> +1
21:56:17 * gnokii didnt like what happend, with the reaction on the announcement on that list
21:56:23 <dramsey> =1
21:56:25 <dramsey> +1
21:56:27 * cwickert looks
21:56:30 <zoltanh7211> +1
21:56:33 <cmpahar> +1
21:57:03 * giallu looks
21:57:25 <cwickert> what was the problem with the annoucement?
21:57:35 <rbergeron> I think the other bit is actually having some reasonable answers and having some reassurance that we do'nt have to make the same announcement with new information every week :) it seems now that beyond beta that we have firmed up a bit.
21:57:53 <rbergeron> cwickert: the detail about it accidentally going to LWN with the "red hat releases fedora" bit and the subsequent drama on the marketing mailing list
21:58:10 <cwickert> did *we* cause this?
21:58:24 <cwickert> I mean, LWN wrote "Red Hat", so what?
21:58:42 <cwickert> as long as this was not our announcement I can see no problem with it
21:58:57 <giallu> yeah. too much drama on that. there was ONE single misplaced 'red hat' in that announce
21:58:57 <rbergeron> cwickert: the details are in the endless thread
21:59:07 <gnokii> endless and useless
21:59:07 <cwickert> ah, I see
21:59:20 <cwickert> I'll read that thread when I have time
21:59:27 <rbergeron> the basic gist of things is that the red hat pr folks sent out a preview to folks, with tha tline in the mail subject, etc.
21:59:30 <cwickert> (means I'll never read it)
21:59:31 <rbergeron> a well-meaning person.
21:59:38 <rbergeron> so.
21:59:39 <cwickert> ok
21:59:41 <giallu> and the one who sent it promptly recognized it was a mistake.
21:59:43 <rbergeron> moving on ;)
21:59:51 <giallu> yeah move on :)
22:00:05 <robyduck> ok
22:00:08 <cwickert> but I noticed there are more disturbing news
22:00:12 <rbergeron> cwickert: I think the point is that people may be looking for a "wider announcement" as to the causes and such
22:00:28 <giallu> rbergeron, exactly
22:01:01 <cwickert> What we need to make clear is why (rewrite of the installer is always critical, bla bla) and that its not the end of the world
22:01:04 <cwickert> or of Fedora
22:01:17 <giallu> I think we did worse than this on the schedule just at the time of 'the incident'
22:01:30 <cwickert> I noticed the delay caused a lot of bad PR
22:01:37 <giallu> yeah
22:01:39 <robyduck> yep
22:01:46 <cwickert> like this one: http://www.golem.de/news/linux-distributionen-fedora-18-beta-ist-doch-noch-erschienen-1211-95991.html
22:02:12 <gnokii> cwickert: recognize better what Feilner has written yesterday about anaconda
22:02:41 <cwickert> for people who don't speak German, the headline says "Fedora 18 Beta was release after all"
22:02:50 <cwickert> and they claim we are 4 months delayed
22:03:01 <cwickert> I wrote them to set this straight
22:03:05 <rbergeron> cwickert:
22:03:07 <rbergeron> ah, that. thank you.
22:03:08 <cwickert> but got no response
22:03:23 <cwickert> almost every date they mention is wrong
22:03:27 <rbergeron> cwickert: is there a place to at least comment properly?
22:03:34 <cwickert> yes there is
22:03:56 * nirik notes in all the stuff I have seen with comments people have been very understanding of delays "better release it right than rush it out"
22:04:06 <gnokii> rbergeron: golem also accept trackbacks
22:04:17 <cwickert> nirik: yes, it's mostly the media
22:04:31 <cwickert> gnokii already mentioned Markus Feilner
22:04:48 <cwickert> Vice editor in chief of German Linux-Magazin
22:05:10 <cwickert> he posted a very negative comment about F18 beta on G+ yesterday
22:05:22 * nirik doesn't know who they are. ;(
22:05:36 <cwickert> but I'm afraid his criticism was right
22:05:46 <gnokii> not one two
22:05:56 <cwickert> like the new group selection doesn't work, anaconda is pretty broken and so on
22:06:05 <cwickert> I mean, at least he has a point
22:06:34 <cwickert> is there anything we can do about this?
22:06:44 <jreznik> nirik: but there's a breaking point... we did not hit this but...
22:06:44 <cwickert> other than delivering an awesome release?
22:06:58 <jreznik> cwickert: document, document and document...
22:07:27 <nirik> file bugs and get things fixed for final that are most important?
22:07:31 <jreznik> for anaconda - a lot of stuff changed from the "ground" and we have to tell people what were the design intentions and how it should be used
22:07:41 <gnokii> +1
22:07:59 <jreznik> nirik: a lot of these bugs are actually not bugs but also misunderstanding how anaconda works now...
22:08:03 * giallu is worried about the custom partitioning...
22:08:19 <jreznik> giallu: yep
22:08:20 <nirik> sure
22:08:25 * sesivany too
22:08:31 <cwickert> #info the delay of F18 caused a lot of bad PR and FUD. Set it straight where ever you find it
22:08:50 <rbergeron> yesplz
22:09:13 <cwickert> #info lets deliver an awesome F18 release. File bugs, fix bugs, hold release events, make noise, spread the word!
22:09:25 <cwickert> and I think this is a good summary for this meeting
22:09:33 <cwickert> how about closing it?
22:09:35 <robyduck> cwickert: +1
22:09:54 <jreznik> cwickert: but you know, there's a chance of having brand new fedora right for linuxtag! :)))
22:10:03 <cwickert> :)
22:10:04 <gnokii> :D
22:10:10 <robyduck> :D
22:10:12 <cwickert> lets rock FOSDEM with F18
22:10:26 <cwickert> #endmeeting