17:05:41 <cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-10-08 17:05:41 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 8 17:05:41 2012 UTC. The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:05:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:05:48 <cwickert> #meetingname famsco 17:05:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco' 17:06:15 <cwickert> #chair aeperezt cwickert nb 17:06:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert nb 17:06:16 <sesivany> .fas eischmann 17:06:16 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com> 17:06:26 <cwickert> #chair sesivany 17:06:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert nb sesivany 17:07:33 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt 17:07:34 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com> 17:09:19 <cwickert> anybody else? 17:09:26 <cwickert> .fas cwickert 17:09:27 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com> 17:09:56 * rbergeron is here 17:10:06 <rbergeron> (though i am not famsco, i will just shut up unless called) 17:10:14 <sesivany> just three people today? :/ 17:10:32 <cwickert> lets move nevertheless 17:10:44 * rbergeron does wonder how next week will fare while people are at fudcon, or if we want to do it "live from fudcon" 17:10:57 <cwickert> well, that is bad timing 17:11:13 <cwickert> it will be just *after* FUDCon 17:11:26 <cwickert> it's 7pm here in Europe 17:11:33 <rbergeron> oh. yes 17:11:38 <rbergeron> sorry, i was tihnking it was... earlier in the day 17:11:42 <cwickert> so people will probably be drinking :) 17:11:51 <cwickert> at least I hope so 17:11:53 <sesivany> rbergeron: I'm flying back home on Tue, so I don't care, but I guess most people will be on their way home. 17:11:54 <cwickert> or traveling 17:11:55 <rbergeron> well, we might be even if it was earlier 17:12:05 <rbergeron> oh, wait, i mean... I am sure we will all be responsibly returning home 17:12:06 <cwickert> anyway 17:12:20 <cwickert> of course we will 17:12:21 <rbergeron> yes, move onwards :) 17:12:22 <sesivany> rbergeron: :) 17:12:34 <cwickert> but for today, we should do some work 17:12:43 <cwickert> the agenda for this meeting is at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9 17:13:52 <cwickert> lets start with out favorite 17:13:56 <cwickert> #topic Budget review guidelines 17:14:00 <cwickert> .famsco 281 17:14:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/281 17:14:34 <cwickert> so, do we have the policies from the different regions? 17:14:40 <cwickert> sesivany: where was yours? 17:14:46 <sesivany> cwickert: did we finally agree that the hard limit is $2000 and regions can make their rules under the limit? 17:15:04 <cwickert> yes 17:15:06 <sesivany> cwickert: moment, I'm looking for it... 17:15:31 <sesivany> cwickert: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EMEA/Reimbursement 17:16:02 <sesivany> it's just a draft, but the limits were agreed at the regional meeting. 17:16:23 * cwickert looks 17:16:27 <sesivany> we also agreed on the quorum for $500-1999: 5 emea ambassadors 17:17:03 <sesivany> cwickert: I basicaly took what APAC had and did a few adjustments based on feedback. 17:17:51 <sesivany> "Only Fedora Ambassadors can request funds or other needs (eg: media/swag production)" this will definitely go out. 17:18:12 <sesivany> we agreed that not only ambassadors can ask for such things. 17:18:19 * rbergeron applauds that 17:19:11 <cwickert> sesivany: I am more interested in the rules than in the process for now 17:19:21 <cwickert> so limits, number of FAms, etc 17:19:30 <cwickert> but what I see looks good so far 17:20:02 <aeperezt> ! 17:20:16 <sesivany> cwickert: we discussed the limits and approval rights and people seemed to be ok with what FAmSCo proposed. 17:20:22 <cwickert> aeperezt: just speak up, no need for rules as we are only 3 people :) 17:20:27 <cwickert> sesivany: ok 17:20:43 <aeperezt> well sesivany it looks good 17:21:13 <aeperezt> on latam I was not able to make to the meeting so we could not make any progress on that matter 17:21:30 <aeperezt> but will push forward on it this wendsday 17:21:33 <cwickert> ok, when do you think you will be able to meet? 17:21:35 <cwickert> ah 17:23:27 <cwickert> ok, I have updated the ticket and linked both policies 17:23:32 <sesivany> aeperezt: you set rules that work for you. If there are not enough people at meetings or meetings are no so regular. You can make a smaller group - e.g. 3-5 most active people in the region. 17:23:37 <cwickert> the APAC one is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Reimbursement 17:24:37 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes that is the idea we had a rule setup but it may need to be arrange and see the limits 17:24:42 <cwickert> ok, unless NA and LATAM come up with something, there is not much we can do now 17:25:00 <cwickert> too bad both NA members are missing today 17:25:45 * herlo apologizes for being late 17:26:14 <sesivany> we were also discussing more flexible quorum such as 1 FAmSCo member + 3 ambassadors instead of 5 ambassadors, but we decided to go with the default option and we'll see how it works. 17:29:10 * cwickert likes the 1 ambassador rule 17:29:19 <cwickert> erm, famsco member 17:29:27 <cwickert> #chair herlo 17:29:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert herlo nb sesivany 17:29:47 <cwickert> herlo: did you and inode0 or nb come up with something about the budget? 17:29:52 <cwickert> for NA I mean 17:30:05 <herlo> cwickert: no, nb and I haven't met yet. I'm working on setting a time now. 17:30:22 * herlo isn't sure inode0 wants to be a party to this document 17:30:41 <Southern_Gentlem> info: nb was looking at pricing of media to get approval 17:31:18 <Southern_Gentlem> that is the only thing that normally we have that is over 2k limit 17:31:33 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: thank you 17:33:48 * rbergeron wonders if we really need to have famsco-level agreement on media purchases, but.. 17:34:15 <herlo> rbergeron: it's more of a formality sort of thing. I don't think it's specific to media. 17:34:52 <herlo> rbergeron: tbh, NA does things differently, we're going to codify that difference. 17:34:54 <cwickert> lets not talk about the $ 2000 level any longer, it's fixed 17:34:58 <herlo> right 17:35:03 <cwickert> it's the PO limit and we cannot change it 17:35:12 <herlo> understood. 17:35:12 <cwickert> I don't expect FAmSCo to cause any problems 17:35:18 * herlo moves on 17:38:37 <Southern_Gentlem> and in the past we have always gotten a PO 17:39:01 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: thanks, this is understood 17:39:13 <herlo> cwickert: what else do we need to discuss here? 17:41:02 <cwickert> herlo: I am afraid not much 17:41:07 <cwickert> I need to leave now 17:41:20 <herlo> cwickert: no problem 17:41:20 <cwickert> or I am already doing other things at the same time 17:41:35 <herlo> let's just move to open floor then, shall we? 17:41:36 <cwickert> I will work in the wiki later 17:41:44 <cwickert> but we really need something to move on 17:41:49 <herlo> ?? 17:41:54 <cwickert> policies 17:41:57 <herlo> cwickert: I thought we were waiting 4 weeks (now 3 weeks) 17:42:06 <cwickert> hold on 17:42:17 <herlo> unless I'm off on this discussion 17:42:19 <cwickert> we want to have something read for FAmSCo in one week from now 17:42:36 <cwickert> and in 3 weeks from now a final policy for every region 17:43:06 <cwickert> so if there are problems and we need to discuss them regionally, we *need* to have something from every region by next week 17:43:06 <sesivany> cwickert: +1 17:43:41 <herlo> cwickert: yes, so nothing needs to happen this week 17:43:49 <cwickert> and if a region cannot make that deadlinem please let us know 17:44:28 <cwickert> #info EMEA and APAC already have drafted their budget policies, NA and LATAM are still working on it. We need drafts by next week. 17:44:38 <cwickert> #topic Open Floor 17:44:43 <cwickert> anything? 17:45:22 <sesivany> not from me, looking forward to FUDCon :) 17:45:26 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert, ? 17:45:39 * herlo is good 17:46:31 <Southern_Gentlem> the NA will be setting down to set a budget for the next year at Fudcon NA in January 17:47:02 <Southern_Gentlem> so if the NA doesnt do anything we fall under the FAMSCO regs anyways correct? 17:47:21 <cwickert> Southern_Gentlem: that's not what we are talking about here. we are talking about numbers but about policies 17:47:26 <rbergeron> Southern_Gentlem: re: the FAD? 17:47:33 <Southern_Gentlem> rbergeron, yep 17:47:52 <rbergeron> fad budgets had traditionally been set/approved by max/harish/etc 17:48:13 <Southern_Gentlem> rbergeron, not talking about the FAD buget in this case 17:48:29 <cwickert> I am afraid 3 different people are talking about 3 different things now :) 17:48:29 <Southern_Gentlem> as part of the FAD we are setting a budget for NA 17:48:32 <rbergeron> oh i see 17:48:50 <cwickert> rbergeron is falking about the budget for a FAD. that is up to the budget owner 17:48:53 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert, to me Famsco is pushing the policy 17:48:54 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: yes, this is useful, but isn't what we are actually discussing. 17:49:02 <herlo> s/are/were/ 17:49:03 <inode0> ? 17:49:51 <cwickert> Southern_Gentlem: strictly speaking the NA budget was always subject to FAmSCo rules, because these were the only rules we had. NA never followed them and did it on their own without any written rules 17:50:05 <cwickert> we now ask you to write down how you did it, that's all 17:50:29 <cwickert> Southern_Gentlem: ok for you? 17:50:32 <Southern_Gentlem> ok 17:50:41 <cwickert> inode0: your turn 17:50:42 <inode0> Ticket #318 has a bunch of +1's now and I am wondering what FAmSCo actually requires to approve the nomination? Does it need to be unanimous? Is it approved now? 17:51:10 <cwickert> inode0: FAmSCo does not nominate or approve new mentors 17:51:14 <herlo> inode0: good point. I think we can say that quaid is approved. Since we have those motions. 17:51:16 <cwickert> the mentors approve mentors 17:51:32 <herlo> cwickert: I thought fama did that which falls under famsco 17:51:33 <inode0> mentors nominate new mentors, famsco approves them 17:51:51 <inode0> as a last line of sanity check 17:51:53 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert, Famsco has approved in the past 17:52:07 <herlo> inode0: I consider the +1s there to implicate a quorum once enough votes tallied. In this case, I think we already approved. 17:52:37 <inode0> ok, I just didn't know the rules if there were any about what was required :) 17:52:40 <inode0> thanks 17:52:42 <herlo> that was put into policy at the very beginning of this term iirc 17:52:59 * herlo probably could just formalize the approval, since he runs fama these days :) 17:53:06 <herlo> anyone have any objections? 17:53:24 <cwickert> herlo: I think you should send out a mail to the current mentors 17:53:32 <cwickert> or did you CC them to the ticket? 17:53:51 <herlo> cwickert: I can do that on the ticket when I write the congratulatory approval 17:54:06 * herlo sees no objections 17:54:25 <inode0> since famsco objecting to a nomination is touchy be careful cc'ing people on those tickets 17:54:27 <herlo> #action herlo will formally approve quaid as a new mentor and inform the mentor community. 17:54:38 <Southern_Gentlem> ok as NA i approve quiad 17:54:54 <Southern_Gentlem> i dont know a mentor in the NA who wouldnt 17:55:00 <herlo> aye 17:55:10 <cwickert> is the new mentor process documented anywhere? 17:55:11 <Southern_Gentlem> NA mentor 17:55:13 <herlo> Southern_Gentlem: he got a unanimous positive vote iirc 17:55:17 <inode0> yes, just a seconf 17:55:18 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors/NewMentors doesn't have any information really 17:55:27 <herlo> cwickert: I got some stuff from kital on it 17:55:36 <cwickert> please put it in the wiki 17:55:38 <herlo> it's not well documented 17:55:41 <inode0> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor 17:55:45 <cwickert> no 17:55:47 <herlo> cwickert: I think it is in th wiki 17:55:58 <cwickert> inode0: I mean, how to become a mentor 17:55:59 <inode0> it is well documented but not with details about what famsco requires 17:56:09 <herlo> right, that's what I am talkign about 17:56:10 <inode0> there is a warning box on that page that explains it 17:57:01 <Southern_Gentlem> cwickert, historicly mentors nominate mentors and then Famsco approved or disapproved 17:57:08 <cwickert> ok 17:57:24 <herlo> https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/mentoring 17:57:42 <cwickert> so that warning box and the link to the old famsco meeting minutes with the decision should probably be moved to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors/NewMentors 17:58:17 <cwickert> herlo: can you take care if this? I suggest to not duplicate this information, only have it in one place 17:58:21 <herlo> okay, I can probably do that this weekend 17:58:29 <inode0> I think it is there because ambassadors just kept adding themselves to that page and it was intended to slow them down 17:58:33 <cwickert> ok, lets approve kwade 17:58:40 <herlo> cwickert: fama is probably the right place for it, actually. But the document there is old and doesn't contain much info on it. 17:58:47 <cwickert> proposal: Make kwade a mentor 17:58:49 <cwickert> +1 17:58:58 <herlo> cwickert: we already approved it 17:59:01 <herlo> look at the ticket 17:59:22 <herlo> we don't need to do it here too 17:59:30 <cwickert> did enough famsco members respond in the ticket? 17:59:48 * inode0 needs to leave for another meeting now - thank you for wrapping this up 17:59:57 <herlo> 5 +1s, so yes 17:59:59 <cwickert> do we need a quorum or even an unanimous vote to approve somebody? 18:00:01 <herlo> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/318 18:00:15 <herlo> cwickert: I swear we just went over this. 18:00:38 <cwickert> #info quaid is a new mentor. Congrats to him and the NA community for having him! 18:01:01 <cwickert> #action herlo to document the process how to become a new mentor *somewhere* 18:01:02 <herlo> I will have to find the meeting notes now, but I believe we agreed that we could vote on a ticket and it would be considered valid if a majority of famsco members voted on the ticket itself. 18:01:23 <cwickert> herlo: I prefer the Fedora wiki, people will hardly search fedorahosted.org/fama 18:01:34 <cwickert> but this is on you as you are doing fama now 18:01:39 <herlo> cwickert: yep 18:01:48 <cwickert> ok, I think that's all 18:01:54 <herlo> I will probably just link from newmentors on the fedora wiki or find a way to include it 18:02:07 <herlo> but we're good, yes 18:02:12 <cwickert> but this is another good example of how knowledge gets lost over time 18:02:13 * herlo thanks everyone for coming! 18:02:20 <cwickert> so lets codify everything in the wiki 18:02:31 <herlo> cwickert: will do 18:02:50 <cwickert> just in case we are getting eaten by zombies 18:02:58 <cwickert> ok, then lets end this meeting 18:03:00 <cwickert> #endmeeting