06:01:14 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
06:01:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 13 06:01:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:01:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:01:14 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
06:01:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:01:15 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
06:01:16 <tagoh_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2012-09-13
06:01:32 <tagoh_> hi guys. shall we have i18n meeting now
06:02:47 <pravins> hi
06:02:50 <dueno> hi
06:02:51 <epico> hi
06:03:12 <paragan_> hi
06:04:08 <juhp> hi
06:04:32 <fujiwarat> hi
06:04:58 <tagoh_> okay, let's get started.
06:05:18 <tagoh_> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:06:23 <anish_> hi
06:06:35 <tagoh_> just for reminder, it's up to today's meeting later, in plan the alpha release is slipped to 18th September as you know.
06:07:37 <tagoh_> #topic Outstanding tasks
06:07:37 <tagoh_> #info #1        FEAT: GNOME IBus Integration (fujiwara)
06:07:37 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/1
06:07:47 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: any news on this feature?
06:09:34 <fujiwarat> I think GNOME 3.5.91 is available and some bug fixes are integrated.
06:09:35 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNOMEIBusIntegration
06:09:51 <tagoh_> aha
06:10:19 <tagoh_> any particular fixes related to the input source?
06:10:55 <tagoh_> juhp: thanks
06:11:41 <fujiwarat> I don't remember all but probably I think xterm issue was fixed.
06:11:50 <juhp> I guess gnome-3.5.9x is not pushed to stable yet, but can the feature page be updated to reflect latest status of updates-testing?
06:12:18 <tagoh_> aha. good idea.
06:12:37 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: what's the xterm issue ? :)
06:14:24 <fujiwarat> xterm does not use gtk-im-context-simple so the IME switching didn't work.
06:14:36 <paragan_> .bug 853678
06:14:38 <zodbot> paragan_: Bug 853678 input method doesn't turn back to XKB engines in xterm. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=853678
06:15:04 <tagoh_> aha
06:15:27 <tagoh_> cool
06:16:53 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: please update the feature page if any. thanks!
06:16:56 <fujiwarat> And probably IME switching works fine in non-gnome-shell environment now.
06:17:15 <tagoh_> cool
06:17:28 <tagoh_> anything more?
06:18:26 <juhp> what is the current status of ibus menu items?
06:18:35 <juhp> s/of/on/?
06:18:44 <fujiwarat> no ime menus
06:18:50 <juhp> aha...
06:19:43 <tagoh_> so do we need to get back .desktop for kasumi for japanese say?
06:20:16 <juhp> fujiwarat, but plan is to have some menu items whitelisted by Beta right?
06:20:31 <fujiwarat> No, g-c-c could shows the ibus-anthy setup.
06:20:35 <juhp> tagoh_, but kasumi.desktop might be good
06:20:43 <juhp> aha
06:21:24 <fujiwarat> The current acceptable plan is to show input mode and dictionary mode only.
06:21:40 <tagoh_> is kasumi accessible from ibus-anthy setup?
06:21:41 <juhp> anyway guess with gnome-shell perhaps the moratorium on .desktop files might be dropped??
06:22:15 <juhp> fujiwarat, dictionary mode means?
06:22:21 <fujiwarat> Probably I need to talk with pinyin and others.
06:22:30 <fujiwarat> juhp: switching dicts.
06:22:36 <juhp> I see
06:23:36 <tagoh_> anyway, good to figure out what we'll be missing and there are any alternative plans to access.
06:23:48 <fujiwarat> Do you have any specific concerns? I think upstream likes to show one or two menus only for IMEs.
06:25:03 <tagoh_> hmm, no way to run kasumi from GUI in even f17?
06:25:04 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: yes
06:25:10 <juhp> I think reducing the number of items is good provided it doesn't hurt usage significantly
06:25:13 <fujiwarat> yes for kasumi
06:25:36 <juhp> tagoh_, I thought ibus-anthy has a shortcut?
06:25:46 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: any plans to add or do you think adding kasumi.desktop back would be better?
06:25:50 <tagoh_> juhp: shortcut key you mean?
06:26:04 <juhp> no?
06:26:08 <juhp> maybe not then
06:26:41 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: yes for kasumi
06:27:12 <tagoh_> juhp: there are a shortcut key right. but I'm talking about GUI as we had an item to bring it up...
06:27:32 <juhp> ok nod
06:28:02 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: well, which one ? :)
06:28:07 <juhp> personally I think kasumi.desktop might be sufficient but dunno how native users feel
06:28:22 <tagoh_> juhp: better than nothing
06:28:38 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: <tagoh_> is kasumi accessible from ibus-anthy setup?
06:28:45 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: yes
06:29:12 <juhp> right
06:29:20 <tagoh_> aha. hmm, I should try on f18 then. couldn't find any on GUI on f17 anyway.
06:29:44 <fujiwarat> I think kasumi.desktop should not be shown.
06:29:50 <tagoh_> dunno if there are any similar issue on other engines?
06:29:58 <juhp> fujiwarat, you mean shortcuts can be set from ibus-anthy-setup?
06:30:23 <fujiwarat> juhp: yes
06:30:49 <tagoh_> juhp: F11 to dict_admin and F12 to add_word by default. but one has to learn the shortcut first...
06:30:56 <juhp> nod
06:31:08 <juhp> I am just trying to clarify ;)
06:31:15 <tagoh_> okay
06:31:18 <juhp> :)
06:31:42 <juhp> so no kasumi ui currently except shortcuts I think we agree
06:31:46 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: again, ibus-anthy-setup can launch kasumi on GUI.
06:32:09 <juhp> fujiwarat, how?
06:32:10 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: okay, let me try. is it same on f17 too?
06:32:20 <fujiwarat> juhp: try it
06:32:30 <tagoh_> ah... got it...
06:32:45 <fujiwarat> annoyed the circle discussion...
06:33:13 <tagoh_> hmm, I misunderstand UI that [...] may open a picker for file chooser.
06:34:04 <tagoh_> guess it could be improved.
06:34:07 <tagoh_> anyway
06:34:35 <juhp> tagoh_, ah right
06:35:08 <tagoh_> so other engines works fine without ime menus?
06:35:47 <fujiwarat> I'd like to asking it here.
06:35:49 <juhp> I think there is a bit of just waiting to see if users scream about certain missing items
06:36:17 <juhp> though we already starting thinking about this long ago
06:36:32 <tagoh_> expecting we may have something from test day's result.
06:36:44 <juhp> good point
06:36:53 <juhp> but maybe more reports after GA...
06:36:54 <fujiwarat> upstream doesn't reduce the menus only but also restrict the number is on (or two).
06:37:09 <tagoh_> good to pick up earlier if any though
06:37:13 <juhp> yep
06:37:17 <tagoh_> okay
06:37:29 <juhp> well 2 > 0 at least :)
06:37:58 <fujiwarat> maybe the two is the special case.
06:38:23 <tagoh_> sure. anything more to discuss on this topic?
06:38:50 <juhp> ah one, ok ;)
06:39:01 <juhp> hmm that is quite strict
06:39:02 <tagoh_> if not, shall we move on?
06:39:43 <juhp> (one seems too few to me though)
06:40:28 <tagoh_> well, for all engine package maintainers, good to check your engines if it's comfortable or not.
06:40:51 <tagoh_> guess you did and no news is good news, hopefully.
06:41:22 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: thanks for updates.
06:41:24 <juhp> hmm not so sure - well I like the goal in theory but not sure it is practical
06:41:25 <fujiwarat> I agreed with you but no way during guadec :(.
06:41:45 <jinkoo> I have a qustion about CBQ, could I ask you guys in this IRC?
06:41:54 <juhp> epico, any thoughts?
06:42:14 <tagoh_> jinkoo: we are on i18n meeting now.
06:42:27 <jinkoo> tagoh_, oops.. sorry!
06:42:34 <fujiwarat> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682314
06:42:50 <jinkoo> tagoh_, nex time, I want to attend the i18n meeting. is it possible?
06:42:54 <juhp> jinkoo, maybe try #fedora ??  I don't know what CBQ is
06:43:00 <juhp> jinkoo, you already are :)
06:43:04 <tagoh_> jinkoo: sure. why not :)
06:43:27 <jinkoo> juhp, tagoh_ haha.. anyway.. thanks
06:43:57 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: aha
06:44:29 * epico think maybe there should have some quick way to launch the setup dialog.
06:45:47 <juhp> nice idea
06:46:09 <tagoh_> hm, okay. spending too many time here. good to postpone the discussion to next meeting. good to add any items to discuss on the ticket. that would speed up to the discussion to see what we need to think about.
06:46:43 <fujiwarat> Probably no point to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNOMEIBusIntegration in this week.
06:46:50 <epico> and with 4 mode toggles, let user not need to learn it, or try to find the missed toggle out...
06:46:56 <juhp> who will update the ticket actually?
06:47:27 <tagoh_> one who has any to discuss ? :)
06:47:35 <juhp> epico, maybe add your idea to the ticket for more discussion later?
06:48:08 <juhp> fujiwarat, next week?
06:48:33 <juhp> tagoh_, anyway sorry please move on :)
06:48:42 <epico> juhp, sure
06:48:44 <tagoh_> schedule is a bit tight. if there are something need to be fixed, that would be better filing a bug upstream first.
06:48:51 <juhp> yeah
06:48:53 <epico> tagoh_, sorry
06:48:58 <fujiwarat> I mean no update until the next rpms will be available in gnome. maybe 3.5.92
06:49:18 <juhp> fujiwarat, currently feature page mentions 3.5.5
06:49:36 <fujiwarat> this update is for bug fixes mainly.
06:49:41 <fujiwarat> juhp: Ah, I see.
06:49:42 <tagoh_> okay. guess we will see some updates after alpha then. or as juhp suggested, good to include something in updates-testing too.
06:49:46 <juhp> or .4 even
06:49:58 <tagoh_> anyway
06:50:19 <tagoh_> #topic New topics
06:50:20 <tagoh_> #info #2        docs i18n beat for f18 (tagoh)
06:50:20 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/2
06:50:23 <fujiwarat> ok, done.
06:50:54 <tagoh_> well, from current schedule, due date for beta is 26th September
06:51:04 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_I18n_Beat
06:51:35 <tagoh_> not too much notes there. if you have any, please add it. we could polish it later.
06:52:29 <fujiwarat> Probably I think gnome-initial-setup won't be on time. So I need to update the release note so that users have to setup the shortcut keys and engines by g-c-c.
06:52:43 <tagoh_> good idea
06:53:20 <tagoh_> dunno or is it maybe good to write it in common bugs ?
06:54:01 <tagoh_> anyway, we can think about it later.
06:54:39 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: im-chooser will no longer run under gnome-shell
06:54:51 <fujiwarat> Is it planned?
06:54:56 <tagoh_> ah, yes
06:55:41 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: And is it already integrated?
06:55:54 <tagoh_> yes, it's there. but should be in updates-testing.
06:56:20 <fujiwarat> ok, updated the table.
06:57:22 <tagoh_> #action fujiwarat to write relnotes how to add shortcut keys and engines
06:57:55 <tagoh_> #action tagoh to write relnotes about new features in fonts-tweak-tool and limitation of im-chooser on gnome3.
06:57:58 <tagoh_> anything else?
06:58:30 <pravins> tagoh_: i will write, regarding Kashmiri Arabic support
06:58:40 <tagoh_> aha
06:58:58 <tagoh_> #action pravins to write relnotes about Kashmiri Arabic support
06:59:01 <juhp> so i18n features can't be included in the relnotes?
06:59:18 <juhp> this part always confuses me slightly
06:59:21 <tagoh_> there should be separate document about features IIRC
06:59:26 <juhp> I see
07:00:32 <tagoh_> though I have never asked about details. so if something is missing in feature page, would be worth writing if any details are needed? dunno
07:01:38 <tagoh_> anyway, if you have any idea, feel free to add it. we can improve it later and discuss its needs later here.
07:01:51 <tagoh_> move on
07:01:55 <tagoh_> #info #4        Testing harfbuzz-ng with default fonts in Fedora (pravins)
07:01:55 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/4
07:02:14 <tagoh_> pravins: can you explain about it?
07:02:31 <pravins> tagoh_: i have created testing page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Fonts_HarfbuzzNG
07:02:45 <tagoh_> sure
07:02:54 <paragan_> I have built harfbuzz-0.9.4 which is available on koji
07:03:07 <paragan_> hope to see it getting pushed along with gnome 3.5.92 megaupdate
07:03:15 <pravins> paragan_: aha, it will be good if it gets stable before 18sept
07:03:19 <pravins> so we can get it for testing
07:03:24 <paragan_> we need to use this build in test day
07:03:34 <paragan_> so people need to manually update this build
07:03:47 <pravins> paragan_: yes sure, i will add that in test case
07:04:12 <tagoh_> well, it's related to next item though, current schedule for i18n test day is same day to alpha release, and due to the timezone, it will be available later in asia. this means we won't get the required version of pango and harfbuzz to test.
07:04:42 <tagoh_> paragan_: right. need to install them manually
07:05:02 <paragan_> pango-1.31.0-1 is in testing
07:05:18 <paragan_> but there is another release also pango-1.31.1 built on koji
07:05:19 <tagoh_> we could ask on ticket to build custom live image for this testing perhaps though.
07:05:28 <paragan_> but I think it will be part of 3.5.92 update then
07:05:44 <tagoh_> particularly for l10n test day
07:06:07 <juhp> I think we should just include updates-testing in the Live image for next week
07:06:29 <juhp> probably 3.5.92 will not be ready in time?
07:06:37 <tagoh_> okay. let me ask on ticket for that.
07:07:11 <juhp> paragan_, can harfbuzz be pushed separately as an update?
07:07:30 <tagoh_> juhp: pango is also needed I think.
07:07:35 <juhp> ah
07:07:45 <paragan_> you want hb-0.9.4 as an separate update?
07:07:52 <juhp> I dunno
07:08:01 <juhp> you said it is needed for the test days
07:08:18 <juhp> asking testers to install from koji seems no-no to me
07:08:32 <juhp> anyway
07:08:47 <paragan_> it will be good as it fixed dotted circle rendering I guess
07:09:00 <juhp> sure nth
07:09:06 <paragan_> pango-1.31.1-1.fc18                       f18-updates-testing   mclasen
07:09:07 <paragan_> harfbuzz-0.9.3-1.fc18                     f18-updates-testing   paragn
07:09:14 <pravins> i have updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Fonts_HarfbuzzNG  for manual installation of harfbuzz-0.9.4-1
07:09:14 <tagoh_> let's see how releng or qa team think.
07:09:23 <juhp> ok
07:09:42 <juhp> or can harfbuzz+pango be pushed separately?
07:09:59 <juhp> when is 3.5.92 due?
07:10:09 <paragan_> I think in this case its better to test with what packages in testing are
07:10:16 <juhp> okay yeah
07:10:24 <paragan_> testing people can easily pull packages
07:10:40 <juhp> if it is only dotted circle then it seems minor to me
07:10:44 <paragan_> but creating so many update complexities is not good
07:10:49 <juhp> right
07:11:09 <tagoh_> okay, anything more?
07:11:18 <juhp> I guess I am just asking if it has to be part of the megaupdate or not? :)
07:11:30 <tagoh_> aha
07:11:46 <juhp> anyways
07:12:43 <tagoh_> okay, let's move on then.
07:12:48 <pravins> yes
07:12:49 <tagoh_> #info #5        i18n test day (tagoh)
07:12:49 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/5
07:13:04 <tagoh_> dunno if I have anything else I should mention here
07:13:44 <juhp> right main concern might be the live image - if testcases are all ready?
07:13:46 <tagoh_> I'm presuming that you have already updated test cases when I was asking for that before.
07:14:29 <tagoh_> let me double-check and ping you as needed.
07:14:45 <tagoh_> #action tagoh to check test cases
07:14:51 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
07:15:07 <tagoh_> any other topics we need to discuss prior to close this meeting?
07:15:41 <anish_> i am planning to implement tab key to enable suggestions
07:15:51 <anish_> for i-t-b
07:15:56 <tagoh_> aha
07:16:38 <anish_> i am giving a checkbox in i-t-b pref to enable this feature
07:16:54 <tagoh_> okay
07:17:06 <anish_> i can enable this feature on the fly
07:17:32 <tagoh_> I have to improve timeline management on the meeting more though, I'm happy to see more activities on the discussion.
07:17:56 <anish_> problem is i store each engines preference in "/usr/share/ibus-typing-booster/hunspell-tables"
07:18:27 <anish_> each conf file permission is root
07:19:11 <tagoh_> anish_: are you planning to introduce this on f18? or f18+?
07:19:16 <anish_> so do edit this conf should i change its permission to $user ?
07:19:24 <anish_> its in f18
07:19:44 <tagoh_> anish_: which $user on /usr/share/... ?
07:20:04 <anish_> the user itself
07:20:10 <tagoh_> well, in practice no you can't.
07:20:37 <anish_> then how can i edit conf files in i-t-b preferences
07:20:48 <tagoh_> any user-based preference should be put under $HOME
07:20:54 <pravins> it should be in ~/.ibus, right? for each user
07:21:03 <juhp> I guess in the similar way to other IMEs?
07:21:22 <tagoh_> $HOME/.config/... may be better?
07:21:43 <tagoh_> juhp: guess so
07:21:50 <tagoh_> then dconf maybe?
07:21:58 <fujiwarat> Yes, .config is better.
07:22:22 <anish_> okay thanks
07:22:56 <tagoh_> okay, close the meeting then.
07:23:00 <tagoh_> thanks everyone for the meeting!
07:23:05 <anish_> thank you
07:23:07 <tagoh_> #endmeeting