18:01:18 <jwb> #startmeeting
18:01:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Aug 17 18:01:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is jwb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:24 <jwb> #meetingname fedora-kernel
18:01:24 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-kernel'
18:01:28 <davej> it's that time again.
18:01:33 <jforbes> word
18:01:39 <jwb> #meetingtopic Fedora Kernel Meeting
18:01:45 <jwb> #topic role call
18:01:53 <jwb> ok, so the maintainers are here
18:01:57 <jwb> anyone else lurking?
18:02:22 <tibbs|w> Someone's always lurking.
18:02:42 <jwb> right.  moving on then
18:02:53 <jwb> #topic F16
18:03:52 <jwb> jforbes, you want to cover this one?
18:03:56 <jforbes> So F16 is still on the 3.4 series right now. 3.4.9 is in updates-testing (test and karma please)
18:04:47 <jforbes> We are holding off on 3.5 until we can get the drm issue resolved.  To that end, I am summarizing the bugs and getting an email out to lkml to see if other eyes help. We are seeing this a lot in Fedora, but it doesn't seem like anyone else is seeing it really
18:05:16 * jsmith is lurking
18:05:39 * jsmith catches up on the scrollback
18:06:02 <jforbes> Otherwise, there are a number of bugs that should be fixed by the current updates, and either have been abandoned by the reporter, or just haven't been closed for one reason or another, so I am getting the bug list down a bit
18:06:02 <jsmith> Sounds very reasonable to me
18:06:06 <jwb> #info 3.4.9 in updates-testing.  Test and karma please
18:06:48 <jwb> ok.  anything else?
18:06:52 <jforbes> That's all from me
18:07:00 <jwb> #topic F17
18:07:04 <jwb> davej?
18:07:17 <davej> the aforementioned drm problem is the biggest pain point right now.
18:07:51 <davej> there's a considerable number of people hitting a direct-io bug too
18:08:17 <davej> once those two are dealt with, things should be pretty quiet again
18:08:22 <jwb> to summarize, the "drm problem" is basically a boot hang that some people are seeing with a message about a conflict between fb and the native driver.  nomodeset seems to help some, but not really a solution
18:08:58 <jwb> davej, i'm starting to wonder if that direct-io bug is getting ABRT hash collisions
18:09:15 <davej> in some cases yeah, a wireless bug seems to have ended up with the same hash
18:09:27 <davej> thanks abrt, you're awesome.
18:09:30 <jwb> should we clear the hash?
18:09:53 <davej> we could, though it would mean a lot of manual duping would need to happen
18:10:23 <davej> I'll ping jmoyer later to see what the progress is on the direct-io bug.
18:10:31 <jwb> ok
18:10:52 <jwb> #info drm and direct-io issues two biggest problems.  currently on 3.5.x
18:11:00 <jwb> anything else on F17?
18:11:26 <jwb> k
18:11:31 <jwb> #topic F18/rawhide
18:11:37 <jwb> i'll cover this on
18:11:38 <jwb> e
18:11:56 <jwb> f18 is branched now, but we're keeping it an rawhide in sync
18:12:16 <jwb> i built 3.6-rc2 last night, but because of alpha freeze we're still at 3.6-rc1-git6
18:12:41 <jwb> there have been a few bugs reported on the 3.6 devel kernels, but most of them are fixed or have fixes on-going upstream
18:12:55 <jwb> otherwise it has been very quiet as usual.  likely due to lack of testers
18:13:25 <jwb> most of the Secure Boot bits are in, with only one main patch missing.  it's being worked on
18:13:40 <davej> I think the fact we aren't getting swamped in those drm/fb or direct-io reports from rawhide is telling. (I don't think that bug is fixed upstream)
18:13:54 <jwb> F18 Alpha will ship 3.6-rcX with debugging enabled
18:13:57 <jwb> davej, yeah :\
18:14:14 <jwb> the target release kernel for F18 is still 3.6
18:14:17 <jforbes> davej: it is not, I think one person noticed it in a kvm guest
18:14:38 <jwb> #info F18/Rawhide on 3.6-rcX.  Alpha will ship with debugging enabled
18:14:51 <jwb> i don't have much else for rawhide
18:14:53 <nirik> you could propose the signed one as a NTH for alpha... dunno if it's that important
18:15:20 <jwb> nirik, yeah, i might do that.  i'll discuss with pjones and mjg59
18:15:36 <jwb> there's nothing that explicitly _needs_ it yet afaik
18:15:45 <davej> that stuff is really going to need a lot of testing, so shipping it early would be in everyone's interests imo
18:16:11 <jwb> davej, that's the problem.  unless you have a machine that supports SB in the firmware, you can't really test it
18:16:22 <jwb> and those machines are few and far between at the moment
18:16:29 <davej> jwb: I'm more concerned about it not breaking the !sb case tbh
18:16:44 <jwb> ah, sure
18:17:14 <jwb> anything else on f18/rawhide?
18:17:31 <jwb> #topic Open Floor
18:17:35 <pjones> hrm, probably ought to try and get this morning's grub2 build in as well (same reasons)
18:17:49 * rbergeron wonders how the virtual test day went?
18:17:53 <rbergeron> err
18:17:54 <rbergeron> fad
18:17:58 <jwb> pjones, submit them all as a single update?
18:18:05 <davej> rbergeron: kind of a non-event
18:18:07 <jwb> rbergeron, the vFAD was a non-event
18:18:11 <pjones> jwb: hrm?
18:18:23 <jwb> pjones, kernel+grub2+pesign as a single update
18:18:28 <pjones> jwb: why?
18:18:31 <nirik> not that this is a fedora kernel issue, but anyone happen to know why alsa's bug tracker is still down? Or if it's expected back? or where I should report my alsa bug. ;)
18:18:49 <jwb> pjones, to make sure they all land in alpha
18:19:13 <pjones> jwb: okay, go ahead and do that then with whichever kernel is the right one
18:19:14 <jforbes> rbergeron: there was not really any response at all on it, Though I am wondering if timing so close to alpha freeze was the reason
18:19:31 <jwb> nirik, i do not.  you could maybe use alsa-devel@alsa-project.org?
18:19:39 <davej> yeah, mailing list is probably best bet.
18:19:46 <jwb> pjones, ok
18:19:51 <nirik> sure, can try it... just seems... poor that their bug tracker has been down for like 2 weeks.
18:20:25 <davej> I wish our bug tracker would go down for two weeks ;)
18:20:25 <pjones> poor, or genius?
18:21:03 <nirik> heh
18:21:06 <rbergeron> jforbes: did you guys hit up the test-announce list as well? it's hard to say if timing close to alpha freeze was an impact... from here out it's constant deadlines or fixing periods or newspin periods
18:21:18 <rbergeron> oh, you did. that's the list i'm looking at
18:21:58 <jwb> we've not had good luck at all getting test days or participation in the past either
18:22:17 <jwb> this is an on-going issue.  it's either scary or boring or we aren't yelling loudly enough
18:22:22 <jforbes> Virt wasn't much different.  Guess our options are not sexy enough
18:22:36 <davej> maybe we could try recruiting from the kernel-newbies people. is that still a thing ?
18:22:46 <jwb> could threaten to introduce intentional bugs in random kernels
18:22:52 <jwb> blackmail works best!
18:23:02 <rbergeron> maybe just a "why is the kernel reression test suite important" ... or poeple are seeing kernel and going holy crap, i can't do that
18:23:16 <rbergeron> christ, someone call mavis beacon for me
18:23:18 <brunowolff> Even when I see a bug I don't always know enough to produce a useful report.
18:23:31 <jforbes> davej: there is still a community there
18:25:24 * rbergeron thinks she will send a mail to the marketing list now that we have a human actually doing marketing as their job (YAY) and see about how we can just generally drum up more interest in test days / virtual fads, even if it's just "set this thing to autotweet every 2 hours"
18:25:57 <jwb> ruth will be ever so happy to tackle marketing kernel testing.  i can totally feel that
18:26:00 <rbergeron> or even a "you too can test, it's not as scary as it seems" introduction to just testing.
18:26:22 <rbergeron> jwb: dude, she's full of creative awesome, she can turn anything into magic.
18:26:27 <jwb> i'd settle for "boot the rawhide kernel today.  did it work?  tell us why or why not!"
18:27:50 <jforbes> heh
18:27:51 <rbergeron> If you stuck "takes 5 minutes and you don't have to reinstall" in front of that it probably would help :)
18:28:10 <jwb> there is no guarantee it won't make them reinstall
18:28:32 <jwb> tiny text disclaimer needed
18:28:42 <rbergeron> LOL
18:29:41 <rbergeron> i think it's probably less brainy than a lot of people perceive it to be - i suspect a lot of folks just see the word kernel and assume it's not in their domain, but i could be wrong
18:30:05 <jwb> yeah, quite possibly
18:30:05 <jforbes> kernel is in everyone's domain!
18:30:47 <rbergeron> i'll still ship a  mail off in a minute to mktg and see if they have any ideas on pimping it out or how to make it sound more accessible in the cases where it really is accessible :)
18:31:09 <jforbes> Any kernel pimping you can get done is much appreciated
18:31:10 <davej> something I'd like to do some time is document a few cases from initial bug filing through to resolution, so people have some kind of idea.
18:31:49 <jwb> #idea document some bug report cases from filing to resolution as examples
18:33:58 <jwb> anything else for open floor?
18:34:52 <jwb> ok, thanks everyone
18:34:55 <jwb> #endmeeting