01:00:04 <inode0> #startmeeting FAmNA
01:00:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 15 01:00:04 2012 UTC.  The chair is inode0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:00:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
01:00:06 <inode0> #meetingname FAmNA
01:00:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famna'
01:00:14 <inode0> #chair rbergeron
01:00:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: inode0 rbergeron
01:00:19 <DiscordianUK> and let you do your meeting
01:00:20 * masta is here
01:00:23 <inode0> #topic Roll Call
01:00:26 <dan408-> here
01:00:26 * kk4ewt 
01:00:28 * lh is here
01:00:30 <dan408-> good to see you DiscordianUK
01:00:31 <award3535> *is here
01:00:39 <wrnash> is here
01:00:40 * kaptk2 is here
01:00:41 * graphite6 waves and stirs mustard sauce
01:00:46 <farmerrob> Night Discord :-)
01:00:57 <dramsey> :)
01:01:01 * nb 
01:01:11 * dan408- waves
01:01:19 <dan408-> MarkDude will not make this meeting
01:01:20 * SGS is here.
01:01:41 <Sonar_Gal> SGS, Congrats!!!
01:01:53 <dan408-> ?
01:01:56 <farmerrob> You here Southern?
01:02:00 <SGS> Sonar_Gal for being here? Thank you, thank you.
01:02:19 <Sonar_Gal> SGS, Nope you know what I am talking about!!  Sidewalks and all!!
01:02:21 <SGS> Sonar_Gal, Nah, I know what you meant, and thank you.
01:02:27 <SGS> Sonar_Gal, :D
01:02:28 <nb> sidewalks?
01:02:29 * rbergeron is here as well
01:02:33 * nb wonders what Sonar_Gal is referring to
01:02:33 <dan408-> lol
01:02:34 * Sonar_Gal gives SGS a hug
01:02:35 <SGS> nb Got my license
01:02:41 <rbergeron> WOO
01:02:44 <dan408-> congrats
01:02:45 <rbergeron> grats :)
01:02:46 * SGS returns said hug.
01:02:48 <SGS> thank you all.
01:02:48 <nb> SGS, oh, congrats
01:02:51 <lh> SGS, drivers license or ....?
01:02:54 * rbergeron hugs Southern_Gentlem
01:02:56 <graphite6> SGS: w00t!
01:02:58 * lh ^5s SGS regardless
01:03:11 <farmerrob> cool
01:03:20 <nb> #info The streets of Blacksburg, VA are no longer safe.  SGS has his license.
01:03:24 <rbergeron> okay, I think we're present and accounted for :)
01:03:26 <lh> lol.
01:03:27 * Sonar_Gal slides Southern_Gentlem the jack!!!
01:03:28 <SGS> lh nope, my license to use lethal force when necessary. Williams. Jaaames williams.
01:03:31 <dan408-> or are they safer, nb?
01:03:35 <nb> dan408-, lol
01:03:39 <dan408-> heh
01:03:49 <inode0> #topic Announcements
01:03:50 <inode0> #info inode0 will be doing something cool next Tuesday but don't worry because graphite6 will be here to entertain you
01:04:03 <dan408-> cool
01:04:07 <graphite6> :D
01:04:11 <SGS> How dare you, inode0! Something cool, without us. . .
01:04:12 <lh> SGS, in that case
01:04:14 * SGS is offended.
01:04:22 * lh slides a bottle of tattinger down the bar to SGS
01:04:32 * SGS hushes for the meeting.
01:04:38 <inode0> everyone must get stoned
01:04:40 <dan408-> lively meeting today
01:04:45 <inode0> did inode0 just say that?
01:04:48 <farmerrob> yes
01:04:50 <graphite6> wow
01:04:51 * SGS pulls up the iron casing to prevent the incoming pebbles.
01:04:59 <dramsey> I'm hungry
01:05:11 * inode0 will be at a Bob Dylan concert if that needs to be explained :)
01:05:11 * dan408- pretends he didn't hear that and hums quietly to himself
01:05:13 <farmerrob> I had Breakfast for dinner
01:05:24 * lh needs dinner, decides instead to focus
01:05:53 <rbergeron> any other announcements?
01:05:56 <dan408-> I'm glad there is new life here
01:06:01 <dan408-> that's my announcement
01:06:19 * inode0 stuffs the rest of his bacon cheeseburger into his mouth and gets ready
01:06:19 <Sonar_Gal> not for long have to get up at 3:15 in the morning
01:06:30 <dan408-> lol
01:06:35 <masta> I'd like to announce that ponies,  rainbows, and hair metal bands are awesome.
01:06:40 * rbergeron notes that FUDCOn Venezuela is next week, and IIRC subsidy requests for FUDCon Paris for those of you in emea are closing soon (if they aren't already, I can't tell what day of the week it is)
01:07:19 <dan408-> +1 rbergeron
01:07:29 <rbergeron> #info FUDCOn Venezuela is next week - your support / retweeting / encouragement are totally welcome :)
01:07:59 <graphite6> rbergeron: definitely, will do
01:08:08 <lh> +1
01:08:10 * rbergeron looks at inode0 to move onwards :)
01:08:12 <nb> ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!
01:08:17 <rbergeron> (unless there are...)
01:08:18 <rbergeron> (that)
01:08:20 <nb> Res t of F17 live media is being shipped
01:08:23 <nb> s/is/has/
01:08:26 <rbergeron> thank god
01:08:38 <inode0> #topic Orientation Topic: Ambassador related tracs
01:09:14 <inode0> Ok, we have three main trac instances of interest to us
01:09:16 <dan408-> nb: any going to norcal?
01:09:23 <inode0> please don't
01:09:33 <dan408-> jw
01:09:35 <dan408-> sorry
01:09:37 * rbergeron pays attention to orientation
01:09:51 <inode0> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fama/
01:10:18 <inode0> please go ahead and visit these as we go, look around a bit without logging in, log in and look around
01:10:33 * lh raises hand with question
01:10:37 <dan408-> this is cool
01:10:43 <inode0> The fama trac has some interesting information and links on the front page related to ambassador membership
01:10:59 <inode0> feel free to jump in with questions
01:11:02 <rbergeron> ?
01:11:03 <dan408-> thanks inode0
01:11:16 <rbergeron> does the chart indicate when we switched from CLA to FPCA?
01:11:22 <lh> are the credentials to login to each trac the same?
01:11:29 <nb> yes
01:11:29 <rbergeron> lh: yes
01:11:31 <dan408-> yes, should be same as fas
01:11:32 <nb> your FAS info
01:11:36 <lh> nifty
01:11:37 * lh makes note
01:11:41 <rbergeron> #info FAS = fedora account system
01:12:02 <inode0> I don't think so, the two downward spikes in membership was general purging during password changes iirc
01:12:07 <award3535> Seems like the metrics are low
01:12:08 <rbergeron> ahhh
01:12:14 * lh notes that she had logged into famna trac and is already logged in to fama trac. do these use single sign on?
01:12:39 <dan408-> lh, yes, so try to logout browse around and then login and browse around
01:12:48 <inode0> yeah, don't worry about that
01:12:50 <lh> dan408-, got it, wil do
01:12:58 * masta looked around, bookmarks
01:13:18 <inode0> the fama trac is mostly of interest beyond the front page to mentors and applicants for the ambassador group
01:13:38 <inode0> once you are in the ambassador group you probably won't use this trac beyond the front page
01:13:47 <masta> Do those spikes corospond to to any notable events?
01:13:54 <dan408-> releases
01:14:12 <inode0> we periodically force password changes and purge people who don't do it from everything
01:14:23 <masta> s/corospond/correspond/
01:14:27 <award3535> there are alot of metrics
01:14:33 <lh> inode0, i see many requests for mentors for ambassadors in the trac. how can we help with this? (I also assume this might be an open floor question.)
01:14:55 <masta> So those are not spikes, they are purges
01:14:57 <award3535> the Map
01:14:59 <inode0> well, just because there is a ticket doesn't mean they asked for a mentor, most haven't
01:15:03 <dan408-> point them in the right direction
01:15:03 <kaptk2> I think I need to encourage my mentor to add his name to my ticket
01:15:13 <kk4ewt> lh they follow the protocol and contact a mentor
01:15:49 <dan408-> !
01:15:50 <lh> kk4ewt, noted. i will ask more questions about this during open floor.
01:16:02 <inode0> we still get quite a few people who request group membership, then don't follow through
01:16:03 <lh> inode0, ^^
01:16:21 <dan408-> I think it would be a good idea to improve the membership process page and put mroe detail there so more people can join, and faster.
01:16:39 <award3535> well that boils down to the individual, if your really interested you will follow up
01:16:48 <inode0> please explore at your leisure but let's move on to the trac instances we use a lot now
01:16:58 <dan408-> that is true, but you would also think you put in the trac ticket and you're waiting in line now.
01:16:59 <kaptk2> dan408- I think it is pretty clear having just started the process myself
01:17:03 <inode0> https://fedorahosted.org/famna/
01:17:10 <inode0> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famna/
01:17:27 <inode0> the famna trac is our public, general purpose trac instance
01:17:39 <inode0> it is important to remember this trac is public
01:18:01 <inode0> do not put any private information into it because it won't be private any longer :)
01:18:12 <dan408-> oops
01:18:20 <masta> are we able to edit our own fama trac ticket, with our progress of becoming full fleged ambassador, etc?
01:18:34 <inode0> you should be able to
01:19:14 <inode0> although progress is recorded by fama and your mentor, you shouldn't really need to add anything unless you want to
01:19:59 <inode0> https://fedorahosted.org/famna/report
01:20:22 <inode0> you'll notice #9 which is our weekly meeting agenda report
01:20:45 <inode0> that is automatically generated from other tickets in this trac having their milestone set to meeting
01:21:18 <farmerrob> cool
01:21:31 <inode0> often if you want to browse you'll click on active tickets and just snoop around - feel free to do that and see how others use tickets here
01:21:57 <inode0> mostly we track progress of events and make sure they get on the meeting agenda by using a ticket in this trac
01:22:26 <inode0> we have used it for other purposes, and it is really available to use for any purpose that can be done in public
01:22:32 <inode0> so feel free to use it
01:23:14 <inode0> when you are finished do please close the tickets that belong to you rather than just abandon them, someone has to clean them up eventually
01:23:28 <lh> inode0, so is the idea that we propose ideas in the trac vs. on say a fedora project mailing list? such as #39 to open the canadian regional mailing list
01:23:34 * graphite6 tends to comment excessively on tickets where she has tasks b/c her short term memory sucks
01:23:43 <dan408-> lh: you stole my open floor question
01:23:53 <lh> dan408-, i haz the psychic
01:24:08 <dan408-> +1 lh
01:24:31 <inode0> you can propose ideas here - that particular item has been discussed elsewhere and the ticket was created just we would discuss it in our meeting
01:24:32 <award3535> +1 keeps things in order
01:24:57 <dan408-> inode0: but during the open floor right?
01:25:00 <lh> inode0, ok, so process is propose idea during weekly meeting then open ticket after discussion occurs in meeting to track for follow up?
01:25:02 <masta> ok so this is the correct interface to introduce fedora-metting topics?
01:25:11 <masta> no other way is as good?
01:25:35 <inode0> lh: you can propose an idea however you please, on irc, in a meeting, in a ticket, on a mailing list :)
01:25:39 <dan408-> i think open floor #fedora-ambassadors is good, and that was going to be my open floor question, and had some suggestions but will save it for later.
01:25:53 <lh> inode0, noted, will not derail further.
01:26:21 <inode0> masta: this is the best way to be sure to get something on the meeting agenda
01:26:43 <inode0> it isn't required though, you can also bring up an item during the Open Floor
01:27:07 * graphite6 smacks forehead - puts closing tickets on to do list
01:27:28 <inode0> last warning for tonight - the famna trac is public - do not stick personal information in it :)
01:27:48 <inode0> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famnarequests/
01:27:59 <inode0> our third trac for tonight is the famnarequests trac
01:28:59 <inode0> it is a private trac where mostly ambassadors make requests for swag or reimbursements which normally require private information of some sort
01:29:30 <inode0> generally you will be able to see tickets that you either own or have been cc'ed on but not other tickets
01:29:49 <lh> inode0, like not sharing a point of contact's home address when sending swag or something like that, right?
01:30:31 <inode0> yes, or information related to getting a reimbursement sent - most commonly it is a delivery address that we consider personal
01:30:40 * lh nods
01:31:13 <inode0> so most ambassadors will start on this one by clicking new ticket to ask for something
01:31:37 <inode0> usually swag for events, or event banners, etc.
01:31:38 <award3535> works well this process does
01:31:48 <inode0> or media
01:32:08 <inode0> please try to direct requests to the region where the delivery will be made
01:32:28 * dan408- takes notes
01:32:36 <inode0> so if you are asking for something to be shipped to oregon choose west coast so our nearest shipper gets the ticket
01:32:53 <inode0> do not make yourself the owner of these tickets unless you know what you are doing :)
01:33:35 <masta> can one ticket here hold all the swag and banner request in one place, or is there ever the notion to break things appart, say the banners from the other swag?
01:33:36 <award3535> the default usually works for the region
01:33:48 <inode0> also do be aware we get very grumpy if you ask for next day air delivery
01:34:08 <award3535> masta, I did and got everything needed
01:34:21 <dan408-> lol
01:34:27 <dan408-> unless it's beefy
01:34:41 <inode0> actually I would split swag and banners into two tickets but we'll figure it out most likely
01:34:41 <farmerrob> mmmm Beefy
01:34:42 <award3535> well beefy just arrived a little late
01:34:58 <inode0> the banners often will ship from a different person than the swag
01:35:17 <farmerrob> good info
01:35:21 <kk4ewt> masta the more things are together the easier to track
01:35:29 <dan408-> hello herlo
01:35:48 <inode0> so unless there is something very odd please request normal ground shipping and ask waaaaay in advance of the need
01:35:57 <masta> I'm just wondering if different logistical tasks should be isolated, or kept organized in one place?
01:36:25 <inode0> we don't have shippers sitting around watching trac 24 hours a day
01:36:41 <inode0> they are volunteers just like you and they need time to get things done
01:36:53 <lh> masta, sounds to me like banners in one ticket, all else in another ticket
01:37:04 * lh also realizes she did her first ticket request wrong, will fix
01:37:28 <inode0> we all did our first ticket request wrong :)
01:37:37 <inode0> well, most of us did so don't feel bad
01:37:51 <lh> fwiw, FedEx ground shipping within the continental united states takes at least 5 business days folks, not including the time your shipper will need to prep shipment
01:37:55 * lh ships too much stuff
01:37:59 <masta> so it is a good idea to CC all the folks that are involved on a ticket, just so everyone involved can see the ticket?
01:38:12 * inode0 notes we normally ship via UPS
01:38:25 <masta> say for example things are shipped from different places
01:38:27 * lh will research UPS' policies
01:38:31 <nb> we normally ship via UPS ground, and sometimes I ship USPS Priority
01:38:43 <nb> we currently don't use fedex
01:39:05 <inode0> since we ship from different regions 3-5 days is pretty normal for ground delivery
01:39:10 <nb> yeah
01:39:17 <inode0> which means that you should ask at least 3 weeks before that :)
01:39:35 <nb> +1
01:39:59 * lh makes note - shipments in continental USA take around 3-4 weeks from request date
01:40:29 <inode0> ok, your homework is to poke around in the tracs we use and see if you can get comfortable - ask questions in IRC and someone will help you
01:40:40 <dramsey> +1
01:40:42 <nb> Also, I would note that we can get stuff shipped quicker, but please try to reach us on IRC if you need us to ship stuff quicker (quicker as in when we ship it, we will still ship it ground)
01:40:45 <farmerrob> Will do
01:40:53 <award3535> +1
01:40:57 <herlo> dan408-: hola
01:40:58 <nb> but we do prefer to have several weeks notice
01:41:05 <dan408-> bonjour
01:41:17 <dramsey> +1
01:41:20 <inode0> it really doesn't require 3-4 weeks notice - that really helps though if you can give us that lead time
01:41:24 <nb> yeah
01:41:51 <nb> and if you haven't heard that it has been shipped by a week or so before you need it, please follow up and ask us about it
01:41:53 <lh> inode0, but we should consider less than 3-4 weeks to be the exception *not* the rule or always possible
01:42:02 <inode0> shipping stuff to people isn't the most fun way to contribute - be very nice to the people doing it or they will quit and you'll have to do it :)
01:42:29 <award3535> +1
01:42:35 <farmerrob> :-)
01:42:37 * lh dispenses hugs and chocolate to all of our shippers
01:42:39 <masta> :)
01:42:40 <inode0> lh: try to give the shippers as much lead time as you can
01:42:42 <nb> lh, well, I would consider it as preferred to give us that much notice.  but if you need something and theres less time, just make sure we notice you need it quicker
01:43:02 <lh> inode0, nb noted,
01:43:11 <nb> i know personally i'm not that good at noticing famnarequests tickets
01:43:17 <inode0> we can't always give that much - you might be asked to give a talk next thursday and need swag
01:43:22 <nb> yeah
01:43:27 <inode0> we do understand things come up
01:43:46 <inode0> ok, I think we need to move one
01:43:48 <inode0> on
01:43:53 <award3535> +1
01:43:57 <nb> we will use expedited shipping if necessary, but pretty much that's reserved for 1) we screw up and don't ship stuff quick enough or 2) a special case and you couldn't have planned ahead
01:44:09 <nb> because you forgot to ask is generally not a valid case for overnighting stuff
01:44:25 <inode0> one last thing on this
01:44:36 <kk4ewt> cost for overnight is about 8x ground
01:44:48 <inode0> we need to be as careful as we can spending Fedora's limited budget shipping stuff around
01:44:54 <nb> yeah
01:45:11 <inode0> so please help us do that by allowing time enough for ground shipping - it is much cheaper
01:45:28 <inode0> #topic Tickets
01:45:33 <kk4ewt> and if we can ship to a business it is cheaper as well
01:45:44 <nb> true
01:45:52 <nb> and if you do give us a business address, let us know it is such
01:45:55 <inode0> good point - business delivery addresses help a lot too
01:46:04 <nb> because i don't know if i tell it residential, if it will charge less if i clicked residential already
01:46:22 <inode0> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famna/report/9
01:46:46 <inode0> graphite6: can you grab the reins now and take care of OLF while I step away briefly?
01:46:53 <inode0> or kk4ewt
01:46:55 <graphite6> yes
01:47:00 <inode0> thank you
01:47:19 <graphite6> .famna 26
01:47:31 <graphite6> .famna ticket 26
01:47:49 * graphite6 never remembers these commands
01:48:05 <graphite6> thanks kk4ewt :D
01:48:10 <farmerrob> Linux Fest :-)
01:48:17 <graphite6> the event page has been updated
01:48:23 <graphite6> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ohio_Linux_Fest_2012
01:48:36 <graphite6> I've seeded the schedule
01:48:43 <nb> nice, apparently it will adjust off the res surcharge if we ship to commercial
01:48:50 <nb> even if we tell it residential when we ship
01:48:54 <nb> i just looked at an invoice
01:49:04 <graphite6> kk4ewt did the booth schedule (you rock!)
01:49:38 <kk4ewt> been doing it the last 5 years
01:49:57 <kk4ewt> graphite IIRC do you need to adjust the budget
01:49:58 <graphite6> the new thing is that the BoF session proposals are now open for submissions at OLF
01:50:19 <graphite6> #link http://ohiolinux.org/bofs
01:50:46 <graphite6> I think it would be nice if those of us going could cook up a bof topic of two
01:50:53 <graphite6> in the next few weeks
01:51:26 <graphite6> sponsorship update: ruth has signed and paid the contract and sent it in
01:52:04 <graphite6> also I priced out a hotel room and flight for me
01:52:22 <graphite6> see the Travel subsidy section on the event page but here are the details
01:53:12 <graphite6> S. White Room* + Airfare2 nights (rate: $119, approx tax: $39) + round trip DEN <=> CMH Total = $583
01:53:22 <kk4ewt> graphite6:  fix the total
01:53:25 <award3535> I will have to skip this one folks, wish I could go, other things keeping me at the real job
01:53:43 * nb moves to approve the funding for graphite6 room and airfare and kk4ewt/sgs room
01:53:50 <graphite6> did I do the math wrong?
01:54:04 <masta> I think so
01:54:05 <inode0> #chiar graphite6
01:54:05 <inode0> #chair graphite6
01:54:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: graphite6 inode0 rbergeron
01:54:05 <inode0> hrm
01:54:27 <graphite6> room $277 (2 nights) flight $306
01:54:44 <kk4ewt> i make the motion that we make the budget of 1400 for OLF
01:55:01 <nb> +1
01:55:02 <inode0> +1
01:55:21 <kk4ewt> +1
01:55:27 <Sonar_Gal> +1
01:55:29 <lh> question: when is it appropriate to +1?
01:55:39 <lh> as in i am new here, is it ok for me to +1?
01:55:43 * masta +1's anyways
01:55:45 <kk4ewt> lh are you ambassador
01:55:46 <herlo> lh: of course
01:55:47 <award3535> +1
01:55:53 <kk4ewt> do you agree
01:55:54 <lh> +1 then :)
01:56:05 <lh> kk4ewt, i do indeed.
01:56:07 <dan408-> +1
01:56:29 * graphite6 thinks you all are wonderous and amazing
01:56:55 <kk4ewt> looks like it is approved
01:57:01 <graphite6> #agreed budget of $1400 approved for OLF
01:57:08 <masta> looks like a great event
01:57:12 <kk4ewt> #action budget of 1400 approved for OLF
01:57:17 * lh holds other questions for open floor
01:57:36 <masta> will make sure to spread soem buzz about that in the next few weeks leading to
01:58:02 <graphite6> I will also, I'll be sending an email out to the list tomorrow as well as tracking down some people I know will be there
01:58:16 <kk4ewt> inode0 shall we go to open floor or continue on tickets
01:58:31 <graphite6> so, in keeping with learning new things should I file ticket for event box and banners and beefy?
01:58:49 <graphite6> (but I know kk4ewt is bringing up the event box)
01:58:50 <herlo> aye
01:59:10 <kk4ewt> #topic open floor
01:59:11 * inode0 thinks open flow
01:59:15 <inode0> floor
01:59:17 <inode0> sigh
01:59:17 <graphite6> gotcha
01:59:18 <masta> :(
01:59:27 * nirik has an item for open floor.
01:59:29 <nb> Who has the Fedora and Beefy buttons?
01:59:35 <inode0> masta: we can talk about your ticket tomorrow?
01:59:38 <kk4ewt> someone took my rights away
01:59:45 <masta> inode0: ok :)
01:59:49 <inode0> #chair kk4ewt
01:59:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: graphite6 inode0 kk4ewt rbergeron
01:59:59 <kk4ewt> #topic open floor
02:00:35 <award3535> nb, all the beefy buttons in the east ebox went at TLF
02:00:48 <nb> oh
02:00:52 <kk4ewt> nb checking
02:01:05 <award3535> quite a popular event and growing
02:01:07 <nirik> I'd like to note for your consideration: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3405 Should I set this up? or would you folks prefer ambassadors stuff stays on one list?
02:01:12 <inode0> graphite6: would you think about doing an orientation on creating event pages on the wiki next week?
02:01:36 * lh has many questions for open floor time
02:01:50 * lh waits to be acknowledged by meeting chair (one of them anyway)
02:01:55 <graphite6> inode0: sure, I <3 event pages :D
02:01:56 <dan408-> nirik: spinning
02:02:03 <herlo> nirik: it was supposed to be on the agenda at some point
02:02:08 <dan408-> hmm
02:02:11 <dan408-> canadian mailing list
02:02:12 * herlo doesn't know if it ever did
02:02:13 <kk4ewt> nb i have fedora buttons
02:02:27 <dan408-> why not?
02:02:27 <nirik> ok, just wondering... I don't like tickets sitting around, like to process them if I can. ;)
02:02:30 <lh> nirik, i think this sounds like a good idea
02:02:35 * herlo thinks inode0's response on https://fedorahosted.org/famnarequests/ticket/298 even though it was filed on the wrong list is appropriate here
02:02:53 <inode0> nirik: I voiced my disapproval earlier but I don't want to stop them if they feel they need it
02:03:06 <nb> kk4ewt, do we need to order some more? or do you have enough to share wit hthe other regions?
02:03:08 <dan408-> i welcome it and would join it
02:03:09 <lh> inode0, why do you feel this is a poor idea?
02:03:13 <kk4ewt> i think if the Canadian ambassadors want it fine
02:03:14 <herlo> inode0: I asked that they discuss it in the FAMNa meeting, but it looks like the requestor didn't show up
02:03:27 <nirik> I have not seen a reply on the ticket in a while...
02:03:30 * nb did not get any buttons when they were produced right before SELF
02:03:40 <nirik> well, 13 days
02:03:45 <inode0> next it will be the south carolina ambassadors list
02:03:50 <herlo> nirik: yeah, it got all messed up when he filed the ticket on the wrong trac instance
02:03:51 <kk4ewt> nb you need me to send you some
02:03:51 <inode0> where does it stop?
02:04:05 <nb> kk4ewt, that'd be great.  I have like 5-10 buttons left
02:04:12 <dan408-> inode0 raises a valid point
02:04:12 <nirik> herlo: ok, so should I close the infra one pending other trac action?
02:04:15 <herlo> /famanrequests is for swag, he needed to file it on /famna
02:04:17 <dan408-> ambassadors list is worldwide
02:04:20 <herlo> nirik: I think so
02:04:28 <nb> i thought about taking some home with me but forgot
02:04:30 <herlo> anyone else have an opinion on it?
02:04:37 <nb> herlo, well, i'm kind of +0
02:04:42 <dan408-> +0 here too
02:04:44 <herlo> inode0 doesn't like the idea either, but that's just us
02:04:44 * nirik can't see the other ticket, but I worry that it wont get much use.
02:04:51 <herlo> nirik: yeah, that's the problem
02:04:53 <lh> inode0, ah, i see. well, i think it is worth noting that canadians do not always like to be lumped in with folks from the states. if this helps us get more ambassadors because people feel more comfortable, then why not do it?
02:04:54 <inode0> for ambassadors who don't speak English or aren't comfortable/efficient with English I think there can be a good reason for a separate list
02:04:57 <kk4ewt> nirik:  thats my feeling
02:04:59 <inode0> but not for Canada
02:05:07 <dan408-> we dont get enough traffic on the main list to warrant this.
02:05:08 <dan408-> -1
02:05:20 * lh notes dan408-'s point
02:05:21 <kk4ewt> changeing to -1
02:05:29 <dan408-> thx
02:05:37 <award3535> I am going to punch out, got to get up early.....good night all
02:05:41 <Sonar_Gal> -1
02:05:42 <kk4ewt> the Canadaian ambassadors dont show up to this meeting
02:05:46 * lh +1s if and only if the requestor comes to a meeting to discuss with the team
02:06:06 <kk4ewt> lh all northern ambassadors
02:06:10 <herlo> kk4ewt: I don't know how to respond to that other than to say, they should and if they really want something they should
02:06:23 <masta> Hopefully they are not discouraged to show here
02:06:24 <lh> kk4ewt, i don't follow, sorry
02:06:25 <inode0> lh: we are all lumped together on the ambassadors list - not just the states
02:06:40 <herlo> canadian ambassadors are part of FAmNA
02:06:56 <masta> Perhaps we should start praisign canadian bacon, and mapple leafs and stuff.... get them in here
02:06:59 <lh> inode0, as in we are all on an ambassadors list for north america or there is a global fedora ambassadors list for all of us no matter where we live?
02:07:01 <herlo> they are aware of this and should attend this meeting as FAmNA controls the budget
02:07:04 <herlo> at least for NA
02:07:05 <nb> nirik, now you can see https://fedorahosted.org/famnarequests/ticket/298
02:07:06 <kk4ewt> lh this region is USA,Canada and Mexico
02:07:09 * nb added you as a CC
02:07:16 <inode0> the ambassador list is global
02:07:18 <lh> kk4ewt, noted, thank you
02:07:21 <lh> inode0, noted, thank you
02:07:22 <herlo> kk4ewt: Mexico is in LATAM
02:07:34 * nb does see a potential benefit to having regional lists
02:07:34 <herlo> because of the language barrier
02:07:44 <masta> are the canadians primarily french speakers?
02:07:46 <nb> the only regional list in NA i know of so far is famna-regionals
02:07:50 <inode0> no
02:07:53 <kk4ewt> masta nope
02:07:59 <herlo> masta: I think some are, but not enough to warrant a list in this way imo
02:08:18 <lh> masta, canadians are almost all bi-lingual french and english, as they are both recognized as official languages by the canadian government
02:08:20 <masta> then I have to agree with inode0, they speak english they go in NA
02:08:24 <herlo> nb: and that's a private list just for managing SWAG
02:08:31 <nb> yeah
02:08:47 <herlo> don't want to give away addresses :)
02:09:18 * lh still thinks that this request should be approved if the team is wiling to turn up and advocate for it
02:09:21 <inode0> well as I said I wouldn't do anything to prevent them from having the list if they really think it works better for them
02:09:26 <inode0> but I'm skeptical
02:09:31 * nirik is happy to do whatever
02:09:34 * herlo just wants to hear a justification
02:09:35 * nb moves to ask the Canadians to come to this meeting
02:09:41 <herlo> +1 nb
02:09:44 <lh> nb, +1
02:09:45 <nb> and further moves to defer this request until they do so
02:09:49 <graphite6> +1
02:09:49 <lh> nb, +1
02:09:50 <herlo> nb: as has already been requested :)
02:09:52 <kk4ewt> +1
02:09:56 * CubedRoot is here...really late :(
02:10:16 <nirik> ok, let me close the infra one then pending discussion in this meeting/right trac
02:10:22 <nb> ok
02:10:29 <herlo> nirik: sounds good
02:10:37 <nirik> thanks folks.
02:10:44 <lh> inode0, is now a good time for random questions or are we waiting for further discussion? also i note that we have run over so i can save for open floor next meeting.
02:10:51 <kk4ewt> table till canadian ambassadors can come to this meeting
02:11:06 * inode0 would like to end the meeting at 15 after if possible
02:11:10 <herlo> kk4ewt: right, they can just reopen that ticket
02:11:18 <inode0> feel free to sneak in another question before then
02:11:19 <herlo> lh: ask away
02:11:36 <lh> inode0, duly noted, i think my questions will take longer than that and i want to be respectful of everyone's time
02:11:38 <lh> herlo, ^^
02:12:10 <inode0> oh, go for it and in the worst case we'll get to think up a good answer for next week :)(
02:12:18 <lh> inode0, yes sir. so voting...
02:12:26 <lh> any ambassador can +1 which means i am in favor, correct?
02:12:33 <inode0> yes
02:12:44 <Sonar_Gal> +1
02:12:45 <lh> does -1 mean i block this from going forward or just i do not like this idea and am not in support
02:12:51 <dan408-> or +1 for good karma :)
02:12:54 <dramsey> +1
02:12:56 <inode0> 0 - neutral, -1 against
02:12:59 <herlo> -1 is against
02:13:01 <dan408-> +1 dramsey
02:13:05 <herlo> yeah, what inode0 said :)
02:13:13 <lh> does -1 stop anything from happening or does it just mean "do not want this to happen"
02:13:25 <dan408-> majority rules
02:13:26 <herlo> lh: enough -1s would. We work on concensus
02:13:26 <inode0> our voting is a little fuzzy
02:13:28 <dan408-> in that vote usually
02:13:29 * lh has participated in projects where if any member -1s something it is considered blocking
02:13:33 <inode0> majority does not rule
02:13:56 <inode0> generally we try to reach a consensus
02:14:03 <dan408-> even in the case of release names?
02:14:05 <herlo> in other words, if enough people vote -1 even if there are more +1s and there are good reasons for the -1, we may hold off or vote against an idea
02:14:07 <lh> inode0, in the event we cannot reach consensus, who decides?
02:14:15 <inode0> if there is disagreement we are likely to table it until later
02:14:26 <lh> herlo, inode0 ok, got it thank you
02:14:27 <dan408-> interesting.
02:14:42 <dan408-> this has been a really educational meeting
02:14:51 <dan408-> thank you
02:14:54 <lh> in the event we keep not agreeing about something, does the subject drop off radar or does someone decide on what will be done? if someone decides, who is that person?
02:15:00 <farmerrob> Yes Great meeting
02:15:03 <inode0> there is very seldom disagreement - we don't usually bring up controversial things to vote on
02:15:09 <dan408-> it goes to public vote like release names i would guess
02:15:13 * lh tables that last question for our next meeting
02:15:22 <dan408-> after beefy miracle there were a few people that wanted to stop having release names
02:15:26 <wrnash> yes a great meeting.
02:15:27 <dan408-> so there was a big vote about it
02:15:31 <lh> inode0, noted
02:15:34 <inode0> more often the disagreement is known before then and we just don't vote until we work things out agreeably
02:15:35 <dan408-> and we decided to keep them
02:15:51 <lh> inode0, graphite6, rbergeron and anyone else i left off, thank you for chairing tonight's meeting
02:15:53 <herlo> lh: I think in that way, we would push it up to FAMSCo or soemthing similar for an official vote. It really depends on how important it is to the community
02:15:55 <nb> well, in FAmNA we really haven't had too many things that are too controverisial
02:15:58 <dramsey> +1
02:16:03 <lh> herlo, got it
02:16:11 * rbergeron didnt do much but feed her kids
02:16:13 <nb> usually most things like approving events are all +1's once it gets to the vote
02:16:21 <inode0> ok, thank you everyone
02:16:27 <nb> sometimes people will suggest changing stuff but that's usually resolved before the voet
02:16:31 * masta +0's
02:16:31 <lh> nb, i assumed so but it never hurts to ask. thank you for the clarifications. :)
02:16:31 <rbergeron> also: i made a linuxcon page... i guess i will mail list :D
02:16:32 * Sonar_Gal is off to bed.  Have to be up in 5 hours
02:16:38 <dan408-> yeah wouldn't board and fesco meetings be more controversial?
02:16:40 <farmerrob> Thank You for the class :-)
02:16:42 <lh> rbergeron, ++ will add more details
02:16:50 <lh> Sonar_Gal, rest well
02:16:53 <inode0> I'll be listening to Dylan instead of you guys next week and I'm sure I'll miss you all terribly :)
02:17:01 <rbergeron> liar :D
02:17:03 <farmerrob> ha
02:17:06 <lh> inode0, enjoy your concert
02:17:10 <farmerrob> Dylan I RL
02:17:10 <dan408-> dont get stoned.. with rocks
02:17:11 * rbergeron knows you will enjoy
02:17:13 <farmerrob> in
02:17:23 <inode0> ok, thanks again
02:17:26 <farmerrob> I saw him is good
02:17:26 <inode0> #endmeeting