05:01:53 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
05:01:53 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 05:01:53 2012 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:01:53 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:01:56 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
05:01:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:02:01 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
05:02:08 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2012-07-26
05:02:16 <dan408> hi
05:02:17 <tagoh_> okay, shall we have i18n meeting now
05:03:12 <epico> hi
05:03:32 <dan408> i'll wait for open floor for my question, please continue
05:03:49 <tagoh_> dan408: hi, sure :)
05:04:46 <dan408> :)
05:05:36 <anish_> hi
05:05:51 <juhp> hi
05:06:15 <tagoh_> okay, time to get started.
05:06:17 <tagoh_> #topic F18
05:06:28 <pravins> hi
05:06:36 <paragan> hi
05:07:05 <tagoh_> let's catch up the features one-by-one today too. though it would be nice to keep the feature page up-to-date prior to starting this meeting but anyway
05:07:21 <tagoh_> anish_: how about itb?
05:07:32 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Typing-Booster
05:07:58 <anish_> package review is done
05:08:03 <tagoh_> cool
05:08:51 <anish_> i am working on installing hunspell dictionary through GUI functionality
05:09:03 <tagoh_> aha
05:09:12 <anish_> i will release new package in this week
05:09:30 <tagoh_> okay, sounds good.
05:09:47 <tagoh_> thanks
05:09:54 <anish_> thanks
05:09:57 <tagoh_> epico: how about ibus-libpinyin?
05:10:07 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ibus-libpinyin
05:10:26 <epico> write stroke editor in progress.
05:10:31 <juhp> anish_, there are also some bugs still to fix for i-t-b I think from ibus-hunspell-table?
05:10:44 <epico> update percentage?
05:11:25 <tagoh_> epico: does current one contains the stroke editor or not?
05:11:33 <anish_> juhp, for couple of bugs i fixed them in itb
05:11:54 <epico> tagoh_, not
05:12:01 <juhp> oh
05:12:04 <juhp> anish_, cool
05:12:37 <juhp> epico, I think tagoh_ means if the current % includes stroke stuff?
05:12:57 <tagoh_> epico: so without the stroke editor, you still need to do work for something to accomplish 30% right?
05:13:19 <tagoh_> then what's that?
05:13:52 <epico> tagoh_, stroke editor is optional, will change it to 90%.
05:14:39 <tagoh_> hm, okay. what's 10% then?
05:14:57 <epico> guess only new package release, and build
05:15:14 <juhp> cool
05:15:25 <tagoh_> well, it has to be landed in alpha since this is the default engine for SC.
05:15:29 <tagoh_> I see
05:15:41 <epico> okay :)
05:17:38 <tagoh_> btw just to make sure, are you confident to finish implementing the stroke editor by beta change deadline?
05:17:55 <epico> tagoh_, yes.
05:18:00 <tagoh_> okay, good.
05:18:36 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Fontconfig2.10
05:19:26 <tagoh_> didn't have a time to help on google-droid-fonts yet. I see nim-nim made some updates on it. will check for warning stuff later.
05:20:25 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FontconfigEnableAutohinting
05:20:26 <tagoh_> need to have some comments on the list and the talk page. I won't get started on it until everything is okay...
05:20:39 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNOMEIBusIntegration
05:21:13 <tagoh_> fujiwarat is away so I'll postpone this one.
05:21:32 <tagoh_> hopefully he may have some updates once he is back.
05:21:33 <pravins> tagoh_: how we can track fonts prefers BCI hinting?
05:22:09 <tagoh_> pravins: guess only checking with eyes.
05:22:12 <pravins> i am 100% sure that all indic fonts welcome change of auto-hinting
05:22:28 <pravins> mostly Latin fonts has some hinting
05:22:50 <tagoh_> okay
05:23:45 <tagoh_> I may have some screenshot for the default fonts for languages to check.
05:24:17 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Liberation_Fonts_2
05:24:28 <tagoh_> pravins: how about it?
05:24:50 <pravins> tagoh_: about to build it for rawhide, just remaining stuff was fontconfig files
05:24:53 <tagoh_> if there are any updates, would be good to update the feature page too
05:25:03 <tagoh_> okay
05:26:03 <dan408> liberation fonts looks cool :)
05:26:19 <tagoh_> guess you've done over 50% for that now.
05:26:27 <pravins> dan408: thanks :)
05:26:38 <dan408> how can i test/check liberation?
05:26:44 <tagoh_> pravins: can you update it after the meeting or now? :)
05:27:07 <pravins> tagoh_: yes, after build for rawhide will update it.
05:27:20 <tagoh_> pravins: thanks
05:27:35 <pravins> dan408: not yet built for rawhide, you need to download it from upstream https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/i/liberation-fonts/liberation-fonts-ttf-2.00.0.tar.gz
05:27:46 <dan408> yes, can i try on f17?
05:27:54 <pravins> dan408: yes, definitely
05:27:57 <dan408> cool thanks
05:27:59 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_18_test_days
05:28:02 <pravins> dan408: np
05:28:16 <dan408> i have a feature proposed for f18
05:28:22 <tagoh_> so far we have i18n/l10n test day at September 6.
05:28:33 <dan408> anyways i dont want to take you guys off topic, please continue
05:29:01 <tagoh_> we may need to coordinate for ibus and fonts maybe.
05:30:49 <tagoh_> hm, guess it may be better bring this up for ibus after fujiwarat is back.
05:31:39 <tagoh_> okay, anything more on f18?
05:32:41 <tagoh_> if not, let's move on then.
05:32:59 <tagoh_> #topic bugzilla cleanup
05:33:34 <tagoh_> we still have 18 bugs open on f15. need to retest if it's fixed in the latest or not.
05:34:07 <tagoh_> paragan, pravins: would be nice if you can check some indic issues
05:34:13 <paragan> sure
05:34:36 <tagoh_> paragan: thanks
05:35:04 <pravins> tagoh_: yes, sure
05:35:11 <tagoh_> any volunteers are also welcome for other non-indic issues as well.
05:36:20 <tagoh_> also we have over 100 bugs open on rawhide for i18n related issues... so good to have a look at them too!
05:36:55 <dan408> over 100 bugs?
05:37:06 <dan408> that's quite a bit.
05:37:29 <dan408> at least it's not over 9,000.
05:37:39 <dan408> would you like some QA help closing them out?
05:38:06 <tagoh_> dan408: we have been tried to keep i18n bugs less than 100 ;)
05:38:17 <dan408> why not 0? jk
05:38:31 <dan408> im more than willing to help
05:38:36 <tagoh_> cool
05:38:38 <dan408> i dont know much about i18n
05:38:42 <dan408> and i only speak english
05:38:44 <dan408> but
05:38:55 <dan408> im on the bugzapper group
05:39:06 <tagoh_> okay
05:39:19 <dan408> please continue
05:40:03 <tagoh_> okay, anything else?
05:40:29 <tagoh_> then move on.
05:40:33 <tagoh_> #topic Input Methods
05:40:45 <tagoh_> any updates to share on IM?
05:42:46 <tagoh_> guess not too much. has anyone tried to 3.5.4 on rawhide say?
05:42:51 <tagoh_> I mean GNOME
05:42:59 <dan408> i can't even get rawhide to boot right now.
05:43:07 <dan408> and i dont even know where to file a bug
05:43:09 <tagoh_> which seems containing some efforts for ibus gnome integration?
05:43:11 <dan408> GDM does not start
05:43:18 * dan408 looks for bug
05:43:19 <tagoh_> aha
05:43:50 <dan408> .bug 841755
05:43:52 <zodbot> dan408: Bug 841755 GDM does not display greeter - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=841755
05:44:13 <dan408> i tried both f17 and f18 kernel, it's hosed.
05:44:40 <tagoh_> oh
05:45:23 <dan408> yeah i would leave it for a bit
05:46:08 <tagoh_> sure. hmm, hopefully it will be fixed soon so we can test more on rawhide..
05:46:49 <tagoh_> okay, if no more on IM, let's move on.
05:46:56 <tagoh_> #topic Fonts and Rendering
05:46:59 <tagoh_> any updates?
05:48:21 <dan408> *Crickets*
05:48:28 <dan408> may we move to open floor?
05:48:32 <pravins> tagoh_: not any specific
05:48:34 <dan408> i have 2 things
05:48:39 <tagoh_> just did push linux-libertine-fonts with new release. and I gave up to build it from the source because upstream stop shipping the build script in archive since some versions.
05:48:52 <pravins> but good development happening on harfbuzz upstream
05:49:20 <tagoh_> filed a bug in upstream about it but no response, but anyway
05:49:36 <juhp> tagoh_, aha
05:49:37 <tagoh_> pravins: yep, I see some metrics on the list. that's quite nice.
05:50:12 <pravins> yeah, looks like it will happen for Fedora 18
05:50:24 <pravins> tagoh_: about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=842568#c3
05:50:46 <tagoh_> pravins: sure
05:50:54 <pravins> ftstring gives same output, right?
05:51:01 <pravins> normally i use that for testing hinting
05:51:30 <tagoh_> not sure if ftstring is looking up something from fontconfig
05:51:31 <pravins> it has options for enabling/disabling font level hinting, as well autohinting as well
05:51:46 <pravins> tagoh_: yeah, it does not look at fontconf file
05:52:08 <tagoh_> I used to take a screenshot for kind of this on libreoffice btw.
05:52:55 <pravins> yeah, i think i also need to follow such thing.
05:53:21 <tagoh_> okay
05:53:36 <tagoh_> anything more on fonts and rendering?
05:54:13 <tagoh_> better move on then?
05:54:19 <pravins> yes
05:54:21 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
05:54:27 <dan408> hi
05:54:31 <dan408> 2 issues i'd like to bring up
05:54:36 <dan408> no tickets
05:54:39 <tagoh_> okay
05:54:45 <dan408> just general long time issues i haven't been able to gain traction on
05:54:50 <dan408> 1) ANSI support
05:55:10 <dan408> BitchX does not support UTF-8
05:55:15 <dan408> if you launch BitchX in gnomme terminal
05:55:21 <dan408> you are prompted to install some weird fonts
05:55:24 <dan408> which do nothing
05:55:28 <dan408> you must use PC850 encoding
05:55:35 <dan408> to get ANSI support to somewhat work
05:55:41 <dan408> any thoughts or insight on this?
05:55:53 <dan408> besides "fix BitchX to use UTF-8"
05:56:41 <tagoh_> asking to install fonts is the side effects. at least the terminal is assuming those weird characters should be in utf-8 as long as you set utf-8 for encoding.
05:56:42 <juhp> so basically just LANG=C ?
05:56:55 <dan408> yes
05:56:58 <dan408> we don't.
05:57:01 <dan408> we use ANSI
05:57:03 <dan408> 100% ANSI
05:57:21 <juhp> dan408: I think someone asked a similar question here some months ago...
05:57:43 <dan408> yeah, me.
05:57:53 <juhp> heh thought it might have been ;)
05:57:58 <dan408> still trying to figure out the resolution.
05:58:10 <tagoh_> as I told you before, ANSI support and encoding support is irrelevant. ANSI things independently works for any encodings
05:58:30 <dan408> then why do i need to choose PC850?
05:58:33 <dan408> here
05:58:35 <dan408> let me post screenshot
05:58:44 <juhp> dan408: I don't we have any development to share then - you need a terminal and shell running in LANG=C say
05:58:49 <dan408> then i will move on to 2nd completely different issue
05:59:02 <dan408> terminal and shell running in LANG=C
05:59:05 <dan408> okay i will try that
05:59:11 <tagoh_> it's because what characters BitchX output is in PC850 I guess.
05:59:23 <dan408> i guess
05:59:36 <dan408> http://i.imgur.com/HvkEm.png
05:59:58 <dan408> please see screenshot, before is without pc850 enabled, after is with pc850
06:00:03 <dan408> okay
06:00:05 <dan408> next question
06:00:19 <tagoh_> juhp: it may not works if BitchX outputs something regardless of locales.
06:00:31 <juhp> hm - pc850 is a term type?
06:00:34 <dan408> PC850 is a bandaid.
06:00:45 <dan408> juhp: in gnome terminal it is. not all terminals let you use 850
06:01:02 <dan408> question #2
06:01:05 <dan408> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MATE-Desktop
06:01:16 <dan408> this has been a proposed feature for Fedora 18 by myself
06:01:45 <dan408> is there thing I need to do to make to be compliant with i18n requirements?
06:01:48 <dan408> anything*
06:01:55 <dan408> it works fine, but I have only tested in english
06:02:20 <juhp> dan408: cool - it is a gnome2 fork right?
06:02:29 <dan408> yessir.
06:02:51 <tagoh_> dan408: I guess I may need to update imsettings for MATE to have IM enabled on it for asian languages.
06:02:51 <juhp> so it should inherit all the i18n and l10n from gnome2 I guess
06:02:52 <dan408> going to vote for FESCO next week
06:02:58 <dan408> want to get all my ducks in a row
06:03:01 <juhp> nice
06:03:25 <dan408> i have about 25 more package reviews to go
06:03:26 <juhp> so hopefully you won't need to do a lot at least
06:03:38 <dan408> it seems to work fine
06:03:48 <juhp> good luck!  it would be nice to see it :)
06:03:58 <dan408> please vote for it in fesco if you are interested
06:04:05 <tagoh_> I guess MATE have different value in $DESKTOP_SESSION or so?
06:04:14 <juhp> aha
06:04:16 <dan408> yes it's completely its own DE
06:04:40 <tagoh_> okay
06:04:41 <juhp> dan408: unfortunately none of us are on fesco but I wish you success
06:04:52 <dan408> well please make your voice heard in the fesco meeting
06:04:59 <dan408> other wise 7 people will decide
06:05:03 <juhp> :)
06:05:11 <dan408> *hint*hint*
06:05:19 <tagoh_> dan408: I can update imsettings once you file a bug with some information about it.
06:05:47 <dan408> you can update imsettings for MATE?
06:05:58 <tagoh_> if necessary yes :)
06:06:06 <dan408> that would be gracious of you
06:06:09 <dan408> I will add it to the wiki
06:06:19 <dan408> the more support the better.
06:06:49 <tagoh_> okay
06:06:58 <dan408> thank you tagoh
06:07:05 <tagoh_> anything more prior to close the meeting?
06:07:13 <tagoh_> dan408: np
06:07:15 <dan408> im good
06:07:57 <tagoh_> okay, close the meeting then. thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:08:02 <dramsey> Lastly but not least a big +1 どうもありがとうございます to tagoh_ for chairing.  :)
06:08:06 <dan408> lol
06:08:26 <tagoh_> #endmeeting