05:01:22 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
05:01:23 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jun  7 05:01:22 2012 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:01:23 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:01:26 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
05:01:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:01:32 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
05:01:40 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2012-06-07
05:01:53 <tagoh_> okay, time to have i18n meeting now
05:02:42 <epico> hi
05:02:55 <dueno> hi
05:04:48 <juhp> hi
05:04:57 <paragan> hi
05:05:41 <tagoh_> okay, let's get started.
05:05:46 <tagoh_> #topic F18
05:06:36 <tagoh_> well, any updates on feature proposal or any suggestions or idea on f18?
05:07:12 <tagoh_> for me, not yet working for fontconfig
05:07:36 <tagoh_> anish_: how about ibus-hunspell?
05:07:51 <tagoh_> epico: how about ibus-libpinyin?
05:08:02 <epico> will try to submit ibus-libpinyin for package review.
05:08:13 <tagoh_> okay, good
05:09:13 * epico currently fixes libpinyin 0.6.0 bugs.
05:09:47 <tagoh_> epico: aha. that's good then.
05:09:53 <epico> :)
05:10:53 <tagoh_> I suppose proposing a feature for ibus-libpinyin would be good since ibus-pinyin is getting involved with pyzy
05:11:12 <epico> okay, will create one feature page.
05:11:22 <tagoh_> cool
05:12:52 <tagoh_> any other plans for features on f18?
05:13:13 <juhp> I had an idea to add language selection to grub perhaps for installs but at least anaconda team seems to be considering my RFE to show Language screen for Live installs
05:13:27 <juhp> so it might not be necessary
05:13:37 <tagoh_> aha
05:13:57 <juhp> clumens added "newui" in Whiteboard
05:13:57 <pravins> hi
05:14:29 <tagoh_> so we don't need to do extra steps to allow non-English install on live after that?
05:14:36 <juhp> would still like to see gdm get a language and keyboard selection again of course too
05:14:46 <juhp> tagoh_, right that is the idea
05:14:50 <tagoh_> nice
05:15:24 <juhp> not sure about KDE though - since they don't include all translations by default perhaps?
05:15:40 <tagoh_> right due to the space
05:15:41 <juhp> anyway it can't hurt I think
05:16:11 <juhp> and yum-langpacks should pull them in when updating I think
05:16:28 <tagoh_> yeah
05:17:17 <tagoh_> well, providing a way to change the language at the installation would be ideal though.
05:17:26 <juhp> I wouldn't mind if setting LANG= on kernel line could override system LANG though
05:17:28 <juhp> perhaps
05:17:32 <juhp> yes
05:18:01 <tagoh_> okay, anything else?
05:18:06 <juhp> of course advantage of grub/ubuntu type approach is that then even initial install page is translated/localized
05:18:32 <juhp> but hopefully this should be good enough for Fedora users
05:19:31 <tagoh_> sure. if it's the trend and most users wants, we may go with it sooner or later. dunno
05:19:39 <juhp> yeah
05:19:55 <pravins> today going to orphan indic-typing-booster packages for Fedora 18
05:20:05 <juhp> (anyway anaconda already supports the language screen so it seems a simple and minimal change to make)
05:20:46 <juhp> aha
05:20:46 <tagoh_> pravins: aha
05:21:02 <juhp> does ibus-hunspell obsolete them?
05:21:13 <juhp> I mean in ibus-hunspell-table
05:21:18 <pravins> um, not sure, need to check it
05:21:24 <pravins> it should be ideally
05:21:34 <juhp> hmm maybe that is undesirable though
05:21:41 <juhp> ah no
05:21:48 <juhp> ok
05:22:25 <tagoh_> any plans to change the default engine for indic this time?
05:23:06 <pravins> tagoh_: i think we should try this time
05:23:15 <tagoh_> okay
05:23:19 <pravins> everything is ready, FEdora 18 alpha will be good point to test it.
05:23:29 <tagoh_> right
05:24:02 <pravins> tagoh_: thanks for reminding, we must try this time. i will ping anish to for starting the procedure
05:24:11 <pravins> but dunno, how we can go?
05:24:34 <pravins> disable m17n mim file? or in background just hook ibus-huspell table when someone select m17n mim files from ibus
05:25:45 <juhp> pravins, well guess we would change the default engine to ibus-hnspell-table in that case
05:25:52 <tagoh_> for fresh install, what we need to do is to change comps for the default install.
05:27:09 <juhp> m17n will and should still be available anyway
05:27:14 <tagoh_> if we still support ibus-m17n, there are nothing we need to do for upgrade I suppose, but good to add relnotes about it
05:27:16 <pravins> ibus-hunspell uses libtranslit which uses m17n, so we will need m17n in default installation as well
05:28:07 <juhp> pravins, right but not necessarily ibus-m17n - though it will probably still be default installed fedora engine though
05:28:20 <pravins> aha, got it.
05:28:26 <tagoh_> we could add more detailed plans in ibus-hunspell's feature page
05:28:28 <juhp> any it is not hard :)
05:28:33 <tagoh_> right
05:28:34 <juhp> nod
05:28:55 <pravins> tagoh_: yes, will draft some plan by next week.
05:29:02 <tagoh_> pravins: cool
05:29:05 <juhp> we are also planning to change default pinyin engine to ibus-libpinyin
05:29:06 <pravins> thanks
05:29:16 <tagoh_> juhp: yeah
05:29:41 <tagoh_> okay, anything more?
05:29:52 <liangsuilong> errr. ibus-libpinyin does not look so good as legacy pinyin engine
05:30:09 <juhp> liangsuilong, you mean the name?
05:30:12 <epico> liangsuilong?
05:31:21 <liangsuilong> Yesterday I hear from csslayer. He feels ibus-pinyin is better than ibus-libpinyin.
05:31:39 <tagoh_> any features missing?
05:31:49 <juhp> oh
05:32:08 <tagoh_> liangsuilong: can you talk about details?
05:32:09 <epico> liangsuilong: sorry, we can't get that name.
05:32:41 <juhp> liangsuilong, note that fedora's ibus-pinyin is already using libpinyin
05:32:48 <juhp> but it is not upstream
05:33:03 <liangsuilong> juhp: in fc17?
05:33:09 <juhp> and backported
05:33:21 <juhp> f16 too I believe
05:33:45 <juhp> liangsuilong, can you be more clear about your concern?
05:34:11 <liangsuilong> juhp: I am quite sorry. I am using another pinyin IME.
05:34:24 <juhp> liangsuilong, or feel free to follow up on fedora i18n list
05:34:25 <liangsuilong> I am switching to ibus pinyin
05:34:30 <juhp> okay
05:34:52 <liangsuilong> juhp: yes, later I will post more details on i18n mail list
05:35:10 <juhp> just not clear if you are talking about naming or features/functionality, etc
05:35:17 <juhp> okay thank you
05:35:50 <juhp> anyway I think epico is planning to improve ibus-libpinyin further :)
05:35:57 <tagoh_> okay, better move on if no more features proposed so far.
05:36:12 <tagoh_> #topoic Bugzilla cleanup
05:36:20 <tagoh_> #topic Bugzilla cleanup
05:36:50 <tagoh_> so EOL announcement has been sent. f15 is ending up EOL June 26.
05:37:48 <tagoh_> we still have 43 bugs open on f15 (+ 6 bugs on f14!) so time to recheck if it still persists on f17 and nice to update.
05:38:51 <tagoh_> please pay attentions on your bugs being assigned to f15 prior to EOL, also any volunteers for other i18n related bugs are welcome.
05:39:56 <tagoh_> I just started to have a look through those bugs, will follows up as far as I can try.
05:40:14 <tagoh_> anyway, just reminder for you
05:40:23 <tagoh_> #topic Input Methods
05:42:05 <tagoh_> well, just found the keyboard layout issue on f17 last week. it's adding unexpected keyboard layout after turning ibus on. apparently the layout information in the xml file seems introducing this issue.
05:42:34 <tagoh_> it was reported to ibus-skk and ibus-mozc though, I guess we may need to fix other engines as well except anthy?
05:43:48 <tagoh_> in f17, setting "default" layout would solves it though
05:44:37 <tagoh_> I suppose it would be better fixing if your engine doesn't have "default" layout in your xml file.
05:46:28 <tagoh_> .bug 828674
05:46:31 <zodbot> tagoh_: Bug 828674 Unwanted keyboard layout change - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=828674
05:46:44 <tagoh_> for reference, it's the case of ibus-skk
05:46:58 <juhp> hmm
05:47:29 <dueno> but iirc some engines (like m17n) actually expect the layout switch - so I think it can be fixed on request basis
05:48:45 <tagoh_> dueno: well, intentionally happening the keyboard layout change is ok and it's not what we are concerned here.
05:50:17 <tagoh_> I think the problem is, the keyboard layout is different with turning on/off.
05:50:48 <tagoh_> it's not what users are expecting.
05:53:20 <tagoh_> it may be the side-effects of ibus-xkb perhaps dunno.
05:54:42 <tagoh_> okay, anything more?
05:54:47 <juhp> hm fujiwarat not here
05:56:19 <liangsuilong> fcitx-4.2.4 has been integrated into keyboard layout.
05:56:32 <tagoh_> dueno: even if it's intentional but different keyboard layout is available after turn on/off, we may need to fix it perhaps dunno
05:57:06 <liangsuilong> Sorry, it  should be that fcitx-4.2.4 has been integrated keyboard layout.
05:57:45 <dueno> tagoh_: hmm, still not 100% sure if it is good to make them to "default"
05:57:47 <dueno> .bug 760108
05:57:49 <zodbot> dueno: Bug 760108 ibus-m17n m17n:ru:phonetic needs us layout. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=760108
05:58:11 <juhp> liangsuilong, that's nice
05:59:22 <tagoh_> dueno: hmm, guess ibus-xkb needs to be fixed or needss any idea to keep state in engine only?
06:00:40 <dueno> or provide some option to users - maybe good to talk with fujiwarat later
06:00:49 <tagoh_> sure
06:01:52 <tagoh_> okay, anything more ?
06:02:56 <tagoh_> if not, move on then.
06:03:06 <tagoh_> #topic Fonts and Rendering
06:03:19 <tagoh_> any updates or concerns to share?
06:04:28 <tagoh_> I was about to post a mail to the list about updating fontconfig template because of some unreliable rules
06:04:55 <tagoh_> you'll see that shortly fyi
06:05:39 <pravins> fixed lohit-tamil bugs
06:05:54 <pravins> with upstream release of 2.5.1
06:05:57 <tagoh_> pravins: cool
06:07:42 <tagoh_> how about liberation-fonts btw?
06:07:59 <pravins> tagoh_: yeah, i have to start work on it.
06:08:12 <tagoh_> pravins: okay
06:08:51 <tagoh_> pravins: do you think we can have any release in f18?
06:09:19 <tagoh_> particularly by alpha or beta.
06:09:29 <pravins> yes, i am targetting it for Fedora 18
06:10:07 <tagoh_> so can you submit a feature for liberation then? I think it would be nice to advertise this update for f18
06:10:16 <pravins> Fedora Alpha change deadline is 2012-08-14, Yes i think by that time we will have it.
06:10:28 <tagoh_> great!
06:10:34 <pravins> tagoh_: i have to do some testing, then will go for it.
06:10:41 <tagoh_> thanks!
06:11:07 <tagoh_> okay, anything more?
06:12:01 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
06:12:09 <tagoh_> or any other topics we are missing in the agenda?
06:14:02 <tagoh_> okay, if not, let's close the meeting then.
06:14:49 <tagoh_> thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:14:52 <tagoh_> #endmeeting