22:02:03 <cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-05-30
22:02:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 30 22:02:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:02:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:02:10 <cwickert> #meetingname famsco
22:02:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
22:02:11 <kaio> .fas me@kaio
22:02:13 <zodbot> kaio: kaio 'Caius Chance (かいお)' <me@kaio.net>
22:02:21 <cwickert> ##topic Roll call
22:02:25 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
22:02:25 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
22:03:42 <cwickert> hi herlo
22:03:45 * herlo is here
22:03:46 <herlo> hello
22:04:58 * cwickert looks for igor, Zoltan and Yn1v
22:05:11 <cwickert> doesn't look like they are coming
22:05:26 <cwickert> so again we have no quorum :(
22:05:41 <herlo> igor said he'd be late
22:05:46 <cwickert> ah, right
22:05:49 <kaio> I think they read the email.
22:05:54 * cwickert checks his mail in the meantime
22:06:05 <cwickert> sorry, I am traveling atm...
22:06:13 <herlo> cwickert: no worries
22:06:16 <herlo> we can wait a few minutes
22:07:18 <cwickert> ok, cool
22:12:09 <cwickert> ok, lets roll
22:12:19 <herlo> do we have three then?
22:12:48 <cwickert> we have 3, but we need 4
22:12:59 <cwickert> I am just looking at the agenda
22:13:07 <cwickert> and there is nothing really urgent
22:13:11 <herlo> yes, just checking the numbers
22:13:25 <cwickert> in fact most thing on the agenda are long term issues
22:13:31 <herlo> cwickert: one big question, when is transition to the new FAmSCo taking place? I know the election starts June 1
22:13:44 <cwickert> not sure if we find
22:13:47 <cwickert> oops
22:14:11 <cwickert> not sure if we find a solution for the open tickets, but we can at least discuss how to proceed
22:14:19 <cwickert> to get back to your question
22:15:05 <cwickert> the transtition will take place after the F19 elections
22:15:17 <cwickert> or what exactly do you mean by "transition"?
22:15:30 <cwickert> we will elect 7 members as usual
22:15:40 <cwickert> and 3 of them will only run for one term
22:16:17 <herlo> I think these are the F18 elections
22:16:38 <inode0> ?
22:16:53 <herlo> I'm just talking about after the elections are over. When does that take place? I recall it being something like 1 week after the elections.
22:16:57 <herlo> inode0: please go ahead
22:17:00 <inode0> When do the newly elected members begin duties?
22:17:15 <herlo> yes
22:17:27 <herlo> that is my question
22:17:38 * inode0 thought it was
22:17:40 <cwickert> hold on
22:17:42 <herlo> :)
22:18:05 <kaio> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections
22:18:14 <cwickert> as soon as the results are announced, we have a new FAmSCo
22:18:22 <cwickert> I mean, why is that a question?
22:18:38 * cwickert thinks it has always been this way, hasn't it?
22:18:55 <kaio> 8 jun 12
22:18:57 <inode0> the old famsco should maybe meet once or twice with the new people to help them on their way?!
22:19:07 <kaio> inode0, +1
22:19:27 <cwickert> inode0: the old famsco will probably be the new famsco, or at least 5 out of 7 members will be the same
22:19:36 <herlo> cwickert: yes, exactly what inode0 is saying. I thought that the leadership baton was handed to us a little. It probably should be a good thing for us to hand it off properly as well.
22:19:37 <cwickert> say 4 out of 7
22:20:26 <cwickert> I am not against it, but I wonder about the benefit
22:21:04 <cwickert> I am afraid it adds additional problems of getting people together at a certain time
22:21:15 <herlo> just help the newly designated folks get their bearings. It's more of a formality
22:21:16 <kaio> I can be there if needed, though I had been here for any FAm via internet already.
22:21:19 <EvilBob> ?
22:21:37 <cwickert> hahahaha
22:21:43 <cwickert> sorry for the interruption
22:21:47 <herlo> EvilBob: yes?
22:21:56 <EvilBob> Who is the current FAmSCo? The wiki page for the election does not list it.
22:22:26 <EvilBob> Also should it be added before the election starts on Friday?
22:22:33 <kaio> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_2012_F18_nominations
22:22:34 <cwickert> EvilBob: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo
22:22:50 * cwickert has problems to follow
22:23:00 <cwickert> EvilBob: huh?
22:23:19 <herlo> EvilBob: it's on the FamSCo page as cwickert stated above :)
22:23:28 <kaio> my url shows the candidates
22:23:29 <cwickert> what is the problem?
22:23:37 <inode0> since all seats are open on famsco listing who's seat is open didn't seem necessary
22:23:40 <EvilBob> cwickert: the list is not on the nominations page nor is there a link to the page you pointed out.
22:23:52 <cwickert> EvilBob: why does it matter?
22:24:20 <EvilBob> It matters for people that are interested in who is now on it and wants to stay.
22:24:25 <herlo> EvilBob: for the *next* election, that will be relevant. All seats are up for this election.
22:24:37 <cwickert> EvilBob: it's a wiki, go ahead and add it
22:24:40 * inode0 can see that point
22:24:54 <EvilBob> If people think you all should go that could impact their votes
22:25:04 <EvilBob> Or if you all should stay
22:25:44 <MarkDude> Makes logical sense, EvilBob
22:25:45 <inode0> and by the way, aren't only two sitting members running? so there is going to be major turnover
22:26:30 <EvilBob> I'll add the info, just wanted to make sure there were no major objections before doing so.
22:26:42 <EvilBob> Out of respect
22:26:43 <cwickert> inode0: so?
22:26:46 <herlo> EvilBob: thanks
22:27:08 <kaio> pls do :)
22:27:19 <herlo> cwickert: you stated earlier that 5 of 7 were returning. I think you meant 5 of 7 will not be returning.
22:27:19 <inode0> helping a minimum of 5 new people get their bearings was the idea I think
22:28:00 <cwickert> herlo: I was under the impression that more people were running for re-election
22:28:09 * inode0 is off but thanks famsco for doing all it did and taking all the crap this term - cheers for next term
22:28:27 <herlo> cwickert: oh, yeah. I think it's just you and me.
22:28:41 <cwickert> after all the trouble we had to find a way to make the transition happen because nobody wanted to step down I find it confusing and disappointing that they don't run again
22:29:01 <herlo> cwickert: but having new member will be good too! :)
22:29:02 <cwickert> but it's their decision, it's probably better this way
22:29:17 <cwickert> as long as these people are willing to do the work, sure
22:29:24 <cwickert> speaking of work
22:29:47 <cwickert> do we want to do something today? any more questions about elections?
22:31:15 <cwickert> hello?
22:31:26 <herlo> I think I'm good
22:31:30 * kaio is listening
22:31:58 <cwickert> pleas don't just listen but TALK to me :)
22:32:04 <cwickert> this is not a one man show
22:32:11 <cwickert> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
22:32:29 <cwickert> lets go through the tickets and see what we can do, ok?
22:32:44 <cwickert> I don't want to close them but we should decide how to move on
22:32:46 <kaio> a few candidates from APAC, so I am very happy
22:33:01 <cwickert> guys, are we still talking about elections?
22:33:03 * herlo looks through the tickets
22:33:20 <MarkDude> APAC needs a bit more love, IMHO
22:33:24 <MarkDude> With tickets also
22:33:34 <cwickert> MarkDude: ?
22:33:57 <herlo> .famsco 288
22:33:57 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/288
22:34:01 <herlo> I thought we already did this?
22:34:29 <cwickert> #topic FUDCon bids 2013
22:34:39 <cwickert> .famsco 288
22:34:39 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/288
22:34:48 <igorps> Hello, everyone
22:35:11 <cwickert> herlo: nope, we have only done NA
22:35:25 <cwickert> we can remove the meeting keyword until there are more bids
22:35:26 <herlo> cwickert: oh, *all* bids
22:35:29 <cwickert> s/more//
22:35:33 <herlo> cool. Sounds good.
22:35:39 <cwickert> ok
22:36:42 <igorps> I was contacted by a Brazilian ambassador who is willing to propose a bid for FUDCon LATAM
22:37:10 <igorps> we may have another bid for next year soon
22:37:15 <herlo> igorps: awesome! have them add it to the ticket once they have their proposal up. :)
22:37:38 <igorps> herlo: will do
22:38:11 <cwickert> ok, anything more on FUDCons?
22:38:57 <herlo> nope
22:39:13 <igorps> nothing else from me either
22:39:16 <cwickert> #topic Budget for LinuxTag
22:39:21 <cwickert> .famsco 291
22:39:21 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/291
22:39:34 <cwickert> I suggest we remove the meeting keyword, too
22:39:52 <cwickert> the budget turned out to be on the spot, only 3,50 EUR difference
22:40:07 <cwickert> however we have donated 280 EUR to LinuxTag
22:40:13 <cwickert> so we are a little over budget
22:40:25 <cwickert> but compared to last year we are still cheaper
22:40:31 <cwickert> despite of all the hotdogs ;)
22:40:45 <cwickert> all that is missing is my reimbursement
22:41:00 <cwickert> kital will do it but I am still waiting for some receipts
22:41:08 <cwickert> so lets just remove the meeting keyword
22:41:15 <herlo> +1
22:41:26 <igorps> +1
22:41:57 <cwickert> and btw: LinuxTag was awesome ;)
22:42:00 <herlo> cool
22:42:03 * EvilBob updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_2012_F18_nominations with the current and historical FAmSCo info.
22:42:04 <herlo> glad to hear it
22:42:05 <igorps> great!
22:42:40 <herlo> moving on?
22:42:59 <cwickert> yes
22:43:25 <cwickert> #topic Budget + PO for EMEA F17 media production
22:43:31 <cwickert> .fasmsco 280
22:43:35 <cwickert> .famsco 280
22:43:35 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/280
22:43:49 <cwickert> we can remove the keyword from this one, too
22:44:18 <herlo> yes, remove meeting keyword
22:44:34 <igorps> ok
22:45:39 <cwickert> .fasmco F17 media for Brazil
22:45:42 <cwickert> dammit
22:45:49 <cwickert> #topic F17 media for Brazil
22:45:59 <cwickert> .famsco 293
22:45:59 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/293
22:46:22 <cwickert> igorps: do you have a written quote for this one?
22:46:32 <cwickert> what is the time frame?
22:47:08 <igorps> cwickert, yes I have, I forgot to attach it to the ticket
22:47:16 <igorps> we need this media before FISL
22:47:21 <cwickert> that is when?
22:47:30 <igorps> that will be held on the end of July
22:47:39 <cwickert> please add this info to the ticket
22:47:39 <igorps> so we still have some time
22:47:42 <igorps> sure
22:47:53 <cwickert> as we don't have a quorum, we cannot officially approve it today
22:48:13 <herlo> cwickert: with igorps, don't we have a quorum?
22:48:19 <igorps> no problem, I still need to update the ticket anyway
22:48:19 <cwickert> oh
22:48:24 <cwickert> right, we have, sorry
22:48:29 <igorps> do we?
22:48:34 <cwickert> kaio: still there?
22:48:46 <kaio> cwickert, :D
22:48:52 <cwickert> hooray
22:48:59 <cwickert> propsal: approve #291
22:49:04 <cwickert> erm, 293
22:49:26 <cwickert> #action igorps to update 293 with the quote and the info on the deadline
22:49:28 <herlo> +1 to 293
22:49:30 <cwickert> +1
22:49:37 <igorps> +1 :)
22:49:49 <kaio> +1
22:49:51 <cwickert> #agreed #293 is approved
22:50:11 <cwickert> #topic Budget for F17 Release Party Rome
22:50:19 <cwickert> .famsco 295
22:50:21 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/295
22:50:47 <cwickert> even if I liked a little more info here I think we should just approve it
22:50:58 <cwickert> I don't care if he books a hotel for 80 or 100 EUR
22:51:02 <herlo> +1 to approve
22:51:05 <cwickert> +1
22:51:14 <kaio> +1
22:51:45 <igorps> +1
22:51:53 <cwickert> #agreed #295 is approved
22:52:19 <cwickert> #topic Funding Request for FAD Padang
22:52:23 <cwickert> .famsco 294
22:52:23 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/294
22:52:33 <cwickert> this one lacks the meeting keyword
22:52:44 <cwickert> but we should discuss it nevertheless
22:53:24 <cwickert> I think this still needs to go through FAmSCo
22:53:36 <cwickert> or?
22:53:51 <cwickert> I see the local community already discussed it at https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/27
22:53:59 <cwickert> should we just leave it to them?
22:54:03 <nb> i thought FAD historically went through budgetowner (i.e. spevack/harish), not through famsco?
22:54:08 <nb> although that never really made sense to me
22:54:13 * nb has no real opinion
22:54:34 <cwickert> nb: you are not allowed to have an opinion until you are elected ;)
22:54:34 <igorps> nb, you're right
22:54:48 <nb> cwickert, :)
22:54:48 <cwickert> but I totally agree with nb, this does not make sense
22:55:20 <cwickert> I mean, we should have a workflow that works for everything without exceptions that are not documented anywhere
22:55:35 <igorps> if it is a FAD it really needs to be approved by the budget owner
22:55:50 <igorps> A FAD is usually a Fedora Premier Event
22:55:51 <cwickert> igorps: where is the policy for that?
22:55:56 <cwickert> igorps: nope
22:56:12 <cwickert> at least not that I am aware of
22:56:27 <herlo> yeah, this is not our ticket
22:56:38 <igorps> cwickert, rbergeron or harish could approve it
22:56:48 <cwickert> hold on
22:56:56 <cwickert> I am trying to understand how it worked in the past
22:57:00 <herlo> I'm not opposed to making this a famsco thing, but it currently isn't being treated this way.
22:57:00 <cwickert> or did not work
22:57:12 <cwickert> I think it should
22:57:15 <herlo> cwickert: it worked, but essentially it went like this
22:57:21 <herlo> someone proposed a FAD
22:57:28 <herlo> they suggested a goal that would benefit Fedora
22:57:31 <cwickert> the wiki says budget needs to go through FAmSCo
22:57:32 <herlo> they would ask Max for budget
22:57:43 <herlo> Max would determine if FAD was approved or not
22:57:52 <herlo> cwickert: yes, but this wasn't part of the FAmSCo budget
22:57:53 <cwickert> that doesn't fly
22:57:59 <herlo> cwickert: that's how it went
22:58:11 <nb> it was under Fedora Premier Events
22:58:13 <nb> same as fudcons
22:58:17 <igorps> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_Events
22:58:17 <nb> not regional support
22:58:18 <herlo> this budget was for premier events. Like FUDCons or FADs, just like eveyrone else said
22:58:24 <cwickert> ok, so we have two different questions here
22:58:32 <cwickert> one is what do to with this ticket
22:58:48 <cwickert> and the other is how it went in the past and what to do with this ticket
22:58:50 <cwickert> erm
22:58:55 <cwickert> how to do it in the future
22:59:01 * cwickert needs sleep
22:59:38 <cwickert> can anybody tell me more?
22:59:53 * cwickert looks at kaio and igorps because they served on FAmSCo longer than me
22:59:59 <igorps> On the previous term FAmSCo approved some FADs, but the approval was more like a recommendation
23:00:07 <igorps> like we do for FUDCons
23:00:16 <herlo> cwickert: sure, for now, I think it needs to follow the Premier Events process. We can give a recommendation, I can say that is not a bad idea.
23:00:34 <kaio> +1
23:00:42 <cwickert> herlo: but what is the "Premier Events process"?
23:01:01 <herlo> cwickert: because this money is set aside for different things, it's not money that FAmSCo really has control over.
23:01:25 <igorps> cwickert, the final word is from the budget owner
23:01:35 <cwickert> igorps: and who is the budget owner?
23:01:43 <herlo> cwickert: as I described above, that is the 'Premier Events process' for FADs. It works very similar to FUDCons, except that only one group managed it. This budget owner was Max and then Harish. I think now it's in the hands of spot.
23:01:46 <cwickert> we only have 2 regions that have a budget owner
23:01:54 <kaio> no matter how it worked, it is good that famsco participate to make that happen
23:01:55 <cwickert> this is horribly broken
23:02:22 <igorps> cwickert, but they can approve FADs for other regions as well
23:02:34 <herlo> cwickert: I don't think I'm arguing against you. I'm just telling you the way it currently is. I'm not sure we have a lot of say in this atm, but it's possible to work with RH to make it better, I think.
23:02:51 <cwickert> herlo: I am not arguing against you either :)
23:03:00 <cwickert> I am just saying this is horribly broken
23:03:14 <igorps> I do agree that this process is broken
23:03:21 <cwickert> ok, here is my proposal
23:03:25 <herlo> cwickert: so let's table this discussion and put in a ticket to review the Premier Events process, maybe?
23:03:26 <cwickert> approve this ticket
23:03:43 <cwickert> it's just 216 USD
23:04:00 <cwickert> given that amount of money it shouldn't even be considered a premier event
23:04:11 <cwickert> just a regular release party
23:04:27 <nb> true, that could be approved under regional support even
23:04:29 <cwickert> and then have a ticket for the premier events
23:04:32 <herlo> cwickert: I thought we were talking about a FAD, not a release event.
23:04:54 <igorps> the problem here is the naming
23:05:07 <cwickert> herlo: this is named a FAD, but I don't want to call it a FAD because then we have to follow a broken process
23:05:07 <herlo> cwickert: you know what, I think this may just be a release event. In that case, we do have funds for it...
23:05:10 <igorps> the ticket says it is a FAD, but in fact it's a release event
23:05:19 <cwickert> igorps: +1
23:05:47 <herlo> cwickert: yeah. either way, a FAD would require much more information, like goals and such. I do agree this is a release event. Let's have them change that and approve.
23:06:17 <kaio> herlo, +1
23:06:49 <cwickert> looking at the schedule it is definitely not a FAD
23:06:58 <cwickert> because it is about talks and not about getting stuff done
23:07:09 <cwickert> we need to stop calling these events FADs
23:07:31 <cwickert> ok, lets approve it and tell them we are unhappy about the name
23:07:37 <igorps> cwickert, +1
23:07:40 <cwickert> +1
23:07:43 <igorps> +1
23:07:50 <kaio> +1
23:07:58 <herlo> +1
23:08:07 <cwickert> #agreed #294 is approved
23:08:32 <herlo> cwickert: btw, i agree that FADs are more well defined. People need to realize this, but it's a hard thing to get them to understand.
23:08:34 <cwickert> who can file the ticket about FADs and premiere events?
23:08:53 <herlo> cwickert: I will do it
23:08:53 <igorps> I can do it
23:08:54 <cwickert> I'd like a person who has served in FAmSCo longer than I to do it
23:08:59 * herlo backs away slowly
23:09:02 <herlo> :)
23:09:07 <igorps> herlo, fell free to do it
23:09:10 <cwickert> whoever has more experience
23:09:33 <cwickert> #action igorps to file a ticket about FADs and Premiere Events process
23:09:34 <igorps> herlo, you probably be on next term. Feel free to move it forward
23:09:45 <herlo> igorps: lol, okay
23:09:48 <cwickert> :)
23:09:56 <cwickert> anyway, just go ahead and file it
23:10:04 <igorps> ok
23:10:05 * herlo notes igorps gets one last dutie though, make sure herlo files a ticket :)
23:10:12 <herlo> s/dutie/duty/
23:10:21 <cwickert> ok
23:10:35 <cwickert> I propse we end this meeting now
23:10:39 <igorps> herlo, I will watch it closely :)
23:10:48 <herlo> lol
23:10:51 <cwickert> we have cleaned up the agenda and discussed all urgent tickets
23:10:52 <herlo> cwickert: +1
23:10:59 <igorps> cwickert, +1
23:10:59 <cwickert> and I am just fsckin tired
23:11:16 <herlo> cwickert: get some sleep, my friend
23:11:18 <herlo> and thanks
23:11:32 <cwickert> ok, I will send the meeting minutes now
23:11:33 * kaio dives to bed
23:11:36 <cwickert> but update the tickets tomorrow
23:11:39 <cwickert> #endmeeting