05:02:01 <tagoh> #startmeeting i18n
05:02:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 17 05:02:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is tagoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:02:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:02:05 <tagoh> #meetingname i18n
05:02:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:02:12 <tagoh> #topic agenda and roll call
05:02:21 <tagoh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2012-05-17
05:02:39 <tagoh> hi guys, let's have i18n meeting now!
05:03:24 <paragan> hi
05:04:28 <juhp> hi
05:04:34 <epico_laptop> hi
05:04:38 <jni> hi
05:04:52 <dueno> hi
05:04:59 <tagoh> if you have any particular topics you want to discuss here, please update the agenda or bring it up at the appropriate section in the agenda.
05:05:11 <pravins> hi
05:05:59 <tagoh> okay, time to start
05:06:04 <tagoh> #topic F17
05:06:25 <tagoh> as you all may know, RC1 is available now
05:06:28 <anish_> hi
05:06:41 <tagoh> did anyone try it yet?
05:07:14 * epico_laptop uses F17 now.
05:07:32 <epico_laptop> installed TC5.
05:07:55 <tagoh> guess no serious issues there for i18n, but that would be nice if you can fix any bugs already filed. we have 27 bugs open for f17 so far.
05:08:04 <juhp> interesting I just installed RC1 - first time to notice the grub running in a framebuffer with Japanese text
05:08:14 <tagoh> aha
05:08:26 <epico_laptop> it also shows Chinese text. :)
05:08:26 <tagoh> nice
05:08:32 <juhp> cool
05:08:42 <juhp> not sure when that landed...
05:08:59 <juhp> UI is a little but works I guess
05:09:12 <juhp> now we just need a lang menu ;)
05:09:26 <juhp> :)
05:09:50 <tagoh> I was trying Live only recently so not sure when it was available ;)
05:10:17 <tagoh> anyway, good to hear
05:10:37 <juhp> okay - yeah still it only appears after install
05:10:47 <juhp> s/still/I think/
05:11:05 <juhp> not everything is translated though - but it is ok for now
05:12:09 <juhp> I don't think it was in beta anyway?
05:12:49 <tagoh> not sure
05:13:22 <tagoh> .bug 821221
05:13:27 <zodbot> tagoh: Bug 821221 Unable to select input methods under KDE - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=821221
05:13:50 <juhp> (lol after playing with it now it no longer seems to boot for me:-/)
05:14:05 <tagoh> heh
05:14:17 <juhp> oh
05:14:49 <tagoh> anyway, interesting bug.
05:15:44 <pravins> i have created ticket to tag https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.0-3.fc17 for F17 final release
05:15:44 <tagoh> wonder if it's reproducible
05:16:20 <pravins> https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5187
05:18:00 <tagoh> I think you need to prupose it for nth at least?
05:18:24 <juhp> I wonder if it is a gtk3 theme issue or something
05:18:34 <juhp> mine?  hmm yeah
05:18:43 <tagoh> pravins: ^
05:18:43 <juhp> ah
05:19:03 * juhp downloads kde live too...
05:20:44 <pravins> tagoh: yeah, i will make it as a blocker bug
05:21:23 <tagoh> pravins: hmm, dunno how it meets the release criteria.
05:21:55 <tagoh> is it not good with the 0-day updates?
05:22:37 <pravins> i think not, its major problem
05:23:24 <pravins> i will talk with fltg SIG to give some comment on it.
05:24:02 <tagoh> well, you should update bug with the certain explanation why it's "important" when you are going to prupose nth or blocker, plus, what the release criteria it blocks if you think it's blocker.
05:24:09 <juhp> does the bug explain the criteria?
05:24:20 <juhp> right
05:24:28 * juhp reinstalls ;)
05:25:08 <pravins> tagoh: yes, i will do it.
05:25:56 <tagoh> for KDE bug, it may be nth but wonder who take care..
05:26:17 <juhp> yeah
05:26:28 <pravins> tagoh: i am just wondering is it possible now? or very late
05:26:40 <juhp> but I think kde does not include full i18n by default?
05:26:58 <juhp> pravins, rc1 is already out - so it is not early :)
05:27:07 <tagoh> juhp: in Live right. there should be still in DVD
05:27:14 <juhp> sure
05:27:20 <juhp> hm
05:28:26 <tagoh> pravins: well, final go/no-go meeting is today. so you could be able to propose it still
05:29:07 <pravins> yeah, last chance :) good point is bug fixed and we got karma as well.
05:29:26 <juhp> if you want it in be well prepared
05:30:02 <tagoh> okay, anything more on f17?
05:30:37 <pravins> sure
05:31:52 <tagoh> okay, let's move on.
05:31:57 <tagoh> #topic F18
05:32:46 <tagoh> any feature proposal or any plans/ideas? :)
05:34:57 <tagoh> wondering if I should file one for enabling autohinting in fontconfig by default
05:36:27 <juhp> aha
05:36:33 <juhp> might be good?
05:36:54 <tagoh> to make it clear for QA yeah
05:37:01 <juhp> yes
05:37:11 <epico_laptop> http://www.freetype.org/ttfautohint/
05:39:11 <tagoh> yes, saw that in freetype list recently
05:39:31 <epico_laptop> it is an interesting project.
05:40:58 <epico_laptop> produces hint code by using freetype autohinter engine.
05:41:05 <juhp> aha
05:41:47 <tagoh> okay, guess better move on. please share if you have any idea for f18 features. good to discuss earlier, rather than talking it later.
05:41:59 <epico_laptop> I see.
05:42:17 <tagoh> #topic Input Methods
05:42:39 <tagoh> any updates on IM?
05:45:32 <tagoh> no progress or changes to share since last week? :)
05:47:15 <anish_> i will be releasing ibus-hunspell in next week with bug fixes and additional improvements
05:48:22 <tagoh> anish_: okay, cool
05:48:27 <juhp> (ah ok seems my laptop was overheating, hm)
05:50:19 <tagoh> okay, shall we move on then?
05:50:33 <tagoh> #topic Fonts and Rendering
05:50:44 <tagoh> any updates on fonts and rendering?
05:51:52 <pravins> lots of things happening in harfbuzz upstream from last week :)
05:52:04 <pravins> most of the bugs for Devanagari fixed now
05:52:32 <pravins> behdad said he will take one script at a time and fix it.
05:53:06 <tagoh> aha
05:53:14 <tagoh> good
05:53:42 <paragan> I guess we can keep liberation font as a default for f18. There is no upstream for croscore whom we can report bugs
05:55:15 <pravins> dunno how can we use missing characters in liberation from croscore
05:56:00 <tagoh> guess Chrome OS is the window to report?
05:57:09 <paragan> yes we can report by that way
05:57:27 <tagoh> anyway, as I suggested in the list, it may be a good idea to ask on devel as well.
05:57:28 <paragan> tagoh, for more feedback, I have forwarded same email to devel list now
05:57:49 <tagoh> paragan: okay. cool
05:59:13 <tagoh> anything more?
06:01:23 <tagoh> #topic Open Floor
06:01:30 <tagoh> any other topics we are missing in the agenda?
06:03:38 <tagoh> ah, forgot this: may need to have a look at all of f15 bugs again and test it on f17 if it's still there.
06:04:15 <tagoh> good to move to rawhide or the appropriate release according to the result.
06:04:52 <tagoh> anything more?
06:05:23 <tagoh> if not, will close the meeting shortly
06:07:17 <dan408> i know im late and i talked to i believe tagoh about this
06:07:34 <dan408> and it's probably not your dept
06:07:44 <dan408> but i'd like support for legacy non utf-8 terminal binary
06:07:47 <dan408> binaries*
06:08:54 <dan408> is this possible at all?
06:09:15 <tagoh> I think Fedora support UTF-8 only
06:09:47 <dan408> what about legacy supportt
06:10:02 <dan408> was it you i talked to about this tagoh?
06:10:09 <tagoh> it may be up to you what else locale/encodings you support in your package though
06:10:46 <tagoh> dan408: BitchX you mean? yes
06:12:22 <dan408> yes.
06:12:27 <dan408> like i said it WORKS
06:12:34 <dan408> if i set gnome terminal to IBM PC450
06:12:44 <dan408> problem is no way to set gnome terminal to default to that
06:13:21 <dan408> sigh
06:13:28 <dan408> im just going to create a bug against gnome
06:13:38 <dan408> or gnome terminal
06:13:50 <tagoh> it does _not_ work actually :)
06:14:03 <dan408> yes it does
06:14:05 <dan408> have you testedi t?
06:15:38 <tagoh> as I told you, ANSI escape sequense is not relevant to UTF-8. why the output is broken is, BitchX doesn't use UTF-8 strings for messages.
06:15:56 <tagoh> that's it
06:16:23 <tagoh> this explains why it works after you change the encoding on the terminal
06:16:29 <dan408> yes
06:16:40 <dan408> and the question is why cant i set default encoding via gnome terminal
06:16:45 <dan408> that should be doable
06:16:49 <dan408> without having to change the entire locale
06:17:01 <tagoh> it's not a issue in the terminal. but surely in BitchX and means it doesn't support UTF-8 at all.
06:17:25 <juhp> maybe you can run a terminal in the desired encoding?
06:17:45 <dan408> i do
06:17:49 <juhp> switching in the shell usually doesn't work well
06:18:00 <dan408> but everytime i open a new terminal it's utf-8
06:18:03 <dan408> and it's annoying as hell
06:18:13 <juhp> wrapper script? :)
06:18:33 <tagoh> juhp: not sure what locales the terminal has IBM450 as the default encoding though.
06:18:45 <juhp> hmm dunno
06:19:21 <juhp> does en_US.IBM450 work??  anyway...
06:19:38 <dan408> yes.
06:19:39 <dan408> it works
06:19:51 <dan408> en_US.IBM450
06:20:02 <dan408> juhp: we have a "cp437.c"
06:20:10 <tagoh> at least not supporting UTF-8 considered a bug in Fedora.
06:20:14 <dan408> but then i'd have to run cp437 BitchX nick irc server
06:20:20 <dan408> yes its a bug
06:20:20 <juhp> tagoh: sure
06:20:28 <dan408> doesn't give fedora an excuse not to support legacy softwrae
06:21:04 <juhp> does it work better elsewhere? :)
06:21:14 <dan408> yeah
06:21:17 <dan408> out of X11
06:21:19 <juhp> hm
06:21:22 <dan408> sshing in
06:21:25 <dan408> FreeBSD
06:22:50 <tagoh> guess there are no way to manage to change the encoding automatically among remote machines possibly has different encodings
06:23:12 <dan408> look
06:23:19 <dan408> you can set default colors
06:23:21 <dan408> i can say
06:23:30 <dan408> open every terminal black bg white forgeground
06:23:38 <dan408> why cant i do the samething with encoding
06:23:39 <dan408> that's stupid.
06:24:30 <tagoh> heh. you maybe better ask any standards to support to change the terminal encoding then.. dunno
06:25:11 <dan408> standards?
06:25:21 <dan408> channel? url? ircnick?
06:26:28 <tagoh> the color changes scheme is defined in ANSI right
06:26:45 <tagoh> anyway, better close the meeting first..
06:26:48 <dan408> no it's set in gnome terminal profile settings
06:27:39 <tagoh> thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:27:45 <tagoh> #endmeeting