05:02:52 <tagoh> #startmeeting i18n
05:02:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec  1 05:02:52 2011 UTC.  The chair is tagoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:02:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:02:57 <tagoh> #meetingname i18n
05:02:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:03:05 <tagoh> #topic agenda and roll call
05:03:19 <tagoh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2011-12-01
05:03:36 <tagoh> hi guys, it's time for i18n meeting. who else here today?
05:04:03 <pravins> hi
05:04:04 <juhp> hi
05:04:05 <anish_> hi
05:04:06 <paragan> hi
05:04:08 <epico_laptop> hi
05:06:01 <tagoh> okay, let's get started.
05:06:12 <tagoh> #topic Supported language list
05:06:55 <tagoh> well, just wrote a draft and need to update a bit though
05:07:04 <tagoh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/SupportedLanguages
05:08:04 <tagoh> list in each release was generated by the script but no data on IM, rendering and printing so far.
05:08:19 <juhp> aha nice
05:09:45 <tagoh> to accomplish the supported lang list, for rendering and printing, I have an idea to add a reference of the result to the test day. this would encourage people to join and move their primary langs to the fully supported list there.
05:10:53 <tagoh> so it would ensure by that testing the lang works fine on the release.
05:10:56 <pravins> tagoh: looks good, i think we should send one mail on fedora devel or users and request people to add missing languages
05:11:05 <juhp> iw_IL is classic Hebrew?
05:11:07 <dingyichen> hi
05:11:10 <tagoh> juhp: right
05:11:22 <tagoh> juhp: no data on iso-codes.
05:11:29 <juhp> I see
05:11:53 <juhp> okay that sounds like a good plan
05:12:42 <tagoh> guess we may need a help from QA team perhaps to make this process clear.
05:13:10 <fujiwarat> hi
05:13:24 <juhp> hmm yeah may be good to discuss with them
05:14:52 <juhp> how about sending a proposal to test list later?
05:14:56 <tagoh> for IM, I'd suggest to have the provides line in rpm dep like inputmethod(:lang=...) but want to generate it from the rpm dep generator if possible.
05:15:16 <tagoh> juhp: yep. good idea
05:15:28 <juhp> dep generator?
05:15:53 <tagoh> like fontconfig one and others does.
05:16:09 <juhp> hmm but how to generate that? :)
05:16:27 <tagoh> dunno :)
05:16:32 <juhp> probably providing by hand would be enough for now? :)
05:17:11 <tagoh> in short term yep.
05:17:48 <juhp> well I guess ibus/m17n might be able to help somehow
05:18:45 <juhp> wonder if this could even be a F17 Feature, hmmm?
05:18:58 <tagoh> anyway, the script is available at http://git.fedorahosted.org/gitweb/?p=i18n.git;a=tree;f=supported_languages;h=4a60bd2a362d16b31adcb57f4fd247d0a256d010;hb=HEAD
05:19:51 <tagoh> ah, well, we have i18n git repo now. if you want an access there, please contact juhp or me.
05:20:04 <pravins> tagoh: juhp yes, inscript2 added by paragan will be input method for most of the language
05:20:13 <pravins> s/language/indian language
05:20:23 <tagoh> juhp: hm, maybe.
05:20:24 <juhp> tagoh: how about listing langs without font separately?  as unsupported perhaps?
05:21:16 <pravins> tagoh: are we going to list all available input methods?
05:21:22 <pravins> for particular language
05:21:36 <tagoh> juhp: aha. well, I wanted to make it obvious why it's supported and what we've done testing for.
05:22:08 <tagoh> and it's one line in wiki so easy to move..
05:22:18 <juhp> more than one :)
05:22:38 <tagoh> pravins: if one has more, it may looks like fonts column in my plan.
05:22:41 <juhp> but sure
05:23:16 <juhp> we don't have a Chinese font by default any more?
05:23:42 <tagoh> juhp: it's a bug... related to what I've posted to the fonts list recently
05:23:47 <juhp> ah ok
05:24:01 <juhp> tagoh: can we edit that page then or it is autogenerated?
05:24:28 <juhp> better to edit the script perhaps?
05:25:37 <tagoh> juhp: that would be ideal if it can be fully auto-generated. but guess not possible. so only generate it as template and maintaining it by the hand may be good. though it may be likely evaluating once at any time on the release schedule perhaps
05:25:50 <pravins> tagoh: i think since we are doing this activity, better to list all input method for particular language as well. may be in long term we can drop redundant input method.
05:25:56 <juhp> tagoh: okay
05:26:17 <tagoh> pravins: yes
05:26:20 <juhp> tagoh: so we can consider this as "0.1" release? :)
05:26:39 <tagoh> juhp: sure :) need more feedback on it
05:26:44 <juhp> okay
05:27:31 <juhp> I dunno if it is overkill to list f17, f16, and f15 - it is going to be hard to update 3 copies?
05:27:52 <juhp> is there much difference between them
05:28:15 <juhp> tagoh: maybe we could also keep an archive per release in git?
05:28:33 <tagoh> well, I think we may need to maintain the list for active release at least. once EOL is coming, it can be moved to another page as history.
05:28:34 <juhp> for the autogenerated part at least
05:28:57 <tagoh> juhp: aha
05:29:18 <juhp> well I along someone is willing to "backport" updates to current releases I guess it is ok :)
05:29:28 <juhp> oops s/I/as/
05:29:43 <juhp> oops s/I a/as /
05:29:56 <tagoh> juhp: well, if it can be fully auto-generated and updates sometimes, yeah, that would saves some power.
05:30:49 <juhp> personally I would probably just start with F16 version and then fork later for f17, etc on wiki
05:31:26 <juhp> well I dunno just thinking how to minimise editting overhead
05:32:15 <juhp> I guess rendering will be even harder to automate though that would be valuable too :-)
05:32:29 <tagoh> sure. actually no different among them so far though. it's just a demo. we can start working on the latest one first and visit others later.
05:32:37 <juhp> wow this could be start of a testsuite and more automatic testing!
05:32:47 <juhp> okay
05:33:16 <tagoh> anaway, thanks for the comment. let's start a discussion on the list for that.
05:33:21 <tagoh> anyway, even
05:34:12 <tagoh> juhp: yep. so that's why I think better add a reference of the result of the test day..
05:34:44 <tagoh> it would be kind of promotion for it to see a lot of people joining the event :)
05:35:04 <tagoh> anyway, better move on
05:35:14 <tagoh> #topic F17
05:35:32 <tagoh> any news or updates on features?
05:36:18 <paragan> Inscript2 keymap feature is already approved :)
05:36:31 <epico_laptop> testing mail are sent to libpinyin mailing list.
05:36:47 <tagoh> paragan: great
05:37:44 <paragan> if other features are also ready then good to move them to FeatureReadyForFESCo category so that FESCo will have vote on it
05:38:00 <tagoh> paragan: right
05:38:25 <pravins> tagoh: i will report features early next week, this week we had some planning on Indic typing booster
05:38:30 <tagoh> epico_laptop: hm, am I missing an url of the feature page for libpinyin on the agenda?
05:38:40 <tagoh> pravins: okay
05:39:12 <epico_laptop> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/libpinyin
05:39:58 <tagoh> epico_laptop: thanks! added
05:40:04 <epico_laptop> welcome
05:40:40 <tagoh> anything else?
05:41:49 <juhp> epico_laptop, cool
05:42:09 <tagoh> okay, let's move on then.
05:42:21 <tagoh> #topic Bugzilla house keeping
05:43:34 <tagoh> well, one week to meet f14 EOL. still keeps 31 bugs open in bz
05:45:00 <tagoh> if you have f14 bugs and not yet taking any action, please visit bz and have a look. if it still persists in the latest release, move to the release.
05:47:39 * juhp messed around a little with https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/SupportedLanguages/F17 already :)
05:47:49 <tagoh> well, anything for that? going through all of bugs here may be not possible so good to catch up on irc after the meeting.
05:48:10 <juhp> mm yeah
05:49:16 <tagoh> juhp: thanks!
05:49:36 <tagoh> okay, move on.
05:49:43 <tagoh> #topic Input Methods
05:49:53 <tagoh> any updates or concerns on IM?
05:50:28 <fujiwarat> ibus-1.4.0-14 will be available soon.
05:50:53 <tagoh> fujiwarat: cool
05:51:41 <juhp> paragan, can we push https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2011-16132/caribou-0.4.1-2.fc16 soon?  it seems kind of serious
05:52:38 <juhp> ah critical path :(
05:52:52 <juhp> okay I will try to test today then...
05:54:33 <tagoh> okay... anything else?
05:56:16 <tagoh> better move on then..
05:56:20 <juhp> fujiwarat, what's in 14?
05:57:00 <fujiwarat> The ibus-gnome3 removes setup/quit/restart.
05:57:39 <fujiwarat> Now IBusEngineDesc has 'setup' property to launch the different IME setup paths.
05:57:55 <juhp> nice
05:58:25 <fujiwarat> Also ibus-dconf is enabled.
05:58:32 <juhp> oh
05:58:58 <fujiwarat> So please test if your IME works fine with config values.
05:59:22 <fujiwarat> It seems anthy is ok.
06:00:51 <juhp> mm though sometimes restart and quit are useful
06:01:03 <juhp> hard to make everyone happy I guess...
06:01:45 <tagoh> only from ibus-gnome3?
06:01:50 <fujiwarat> yes
06:02:11 <fujiwarat> juhp: But it's suggested from mclasen.
06:02:16 <juhp> I guess one has to be a bit of a minimalist to use gnome-shell
06:02:20 <juhp> ok I see
06:03:15 <juhp> well I agree it is Right but just sometimes prefer to first remove features when a replacement is available - I guess it is fine for rawhide at least :)
06:03:46 <tagoh> juhp: right
06:03:51 <juhp> we certainly can't quit ibus if it is the input for everything :)
06:04:16 <fujiwarat> We may need a stop argument in ibus-daemon.
06:04:23 <juhp> aha
06:04:27 <juhp> yes
06:04:35 <juhp> that would help I guess :)
06:05:01 <juhp> agree it doesn't really need to be exposed in the menu since normally users would not need it
06:05:13 <juhp> restart is useful though after adding a IME
06:05:38 <juhp> but arguably that is also an ibus bug/rfe :)
06:06:19 <juhp> for now people could use im-chooser anyway to cycle ibus if necessary I guess
06:06:38 <juhp> so we can see how it goes I guess
06:06:49 <tagoh> juhp: or imsettings-switch -r on the terminal.
06:07:07 <tagoh> anyway, better move on.
06:07:16 <tagoh> #topic Fonts and Rendering
06:07:32 <tagoh> any updates or concerns to share for fonts and rendering?
06:08:14 <pravins> tagoh: liberation fonts has some hitning bugs pending for F14
06:08:30 <tagoh> pravins: aha
06:09:10 <pravins> i will test and move those for f16
06:09:20 <tagoh> thanks
06:12:20 <tagoh> started https://github.com/tagoh/libeasyfc yesterday to make an easy access to read/write fontconfig config from the POV of lang and aliases. no code to read the configuration but can write it now. guess will finish the work shortly.
06:13:35 <tagoh> guess it can be used in gnome-tweak-tool and fonts-tweak-tool to tweak alias fonts for langs.
06:13:50 <epico_laptop> yes. great
06:14:11 <pravins> tagoh: need karma for .bug 683122
06:14:49 <pravins> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2011-16547/lohit-punjabi-fonts-2.5.0-2.fc16
06:15:19 <tagoh> pravins: okay. will test
06:15:52 <pravins> tagoh: you have tested already :)
06:15:54 <tagoh> so anything else on this topic?
06:16:22 <tagoh> or on something if we are missing from the agenda?
06:17:33 <juhp> tagoh: interesting
06:19:26 <tagoh> so stop the meeting here then. thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:20:00 <tagoh> may ping you on #fedora-i18n for f14 bugs later :)
06:20:07 <tagoh> #endmeeting