14:01:27 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:01:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 28 14:01:27 2011 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:38 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:01:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:01:43 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
14:02:02 <Sparks> ?me
14:02:04 * Sparks 
14:02:05 * jjmcd 
14:02:19 <Sparks> Wow, looks like bcotton and I are both fairly asleep.
14:02:22 * randomuser .
14:02:39 * sgordon is here
14:04:05 * pkovar 
14:04:41 * fnadge is sort of here, moday hickup
14:06:14 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:06:34 <bcotton> so i actually emailed the list about the bug squashing party. yay me
14:06:57 <bcotton> fnadge: you were going to start a Style Guide book. I haven't looked at the commit logs, has that gone yet?
14:07:49 <fnadge> nope, tried to create a repository but haven't received the ticket yet
14:08:31 <Sparks> Are we keeping the Style Guide separate from the Documentation Guide?
14:08:31 <fnadge> Should I simply try over again or wait longer (already one week)
14:08:39 <fnadge> Yep
14:09:06 <Sparks> fnadge: Perhaps pinging someone in #fedora-admin about it would help
14:09:10 <bcotton> fnadge: i'd try again. a week seems a long time to wait
14:09:14 <bcotton> fnadge: or what Sparks said
14:09:59 <fnadge> right, will do
14:10:09 <bcotton> okay, i'll keep this for posterity
14:10:19 <bcotton> #action fnadge to start a Style Guide book
14:10:20 <pkovar> aren't the fedora sysadmin guys in the process of upgrading the fedorahosted infrastructure?
14:11:26 <fnadge> Guess, I will ping them then
14:12:07 <Sparks> .
14:12:12 <bcotton> anything else on last week's action items
14:12:13 <bcotton> sparks?
14:12:41 <Sparks> fnadge: You can go ahead and start working on the guide doing a local commit with git and and then when the repo gets built just edit your .git/config file and do a push.
14:13:09 * Sparks will be around in #fedora-docs after the meeting to better explain that if needed.
14:13:37 <fnadge> That's definitely a good idea but I rather do it properly
14:13:49 <Sparks> That is proper.
14:13:54 <Sparks> That's what git is all about
14:14:05 <jjmcd> Either way that first push is a little odd
14:14:32 <jjmcd> Whether or not you cloned an empty repo
14:14:46 <Sparks> jjmcd: and subsequent branch pushes are "odd" as well... :)
14:14:59 <jjmcd> true
14:15:07 <Sparks> EOF
14:16:17 <bcotton> #topic FUDcon Blacksburg
14:16:27 <bcotton> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2011
14:16:33 <bcotton> #info Docs is sponsoring two classes at FUDCon Blacksburg: Introduction to Docs and DocBookXML/Publican
14:17:15 <sgordon> i am looking at the details atm but i am looking at making it down
14:18:33 <jjmcd> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012
14:18:37 <jjmcd> Not 2011
14:18:42 <sgordon> lol
14:19:04 <bcotton> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012
14:19:14 <bcotton> thanks jjmcd. i need more coffee
14:19:36 <jjmcd> Bean juice is a good thing
14:20:08 * jjmcd just finished seconds cup and still not getting the hang of this day
14:20:25 <bcotton> apart from figuring out what year it is, anything else on fudcon?
14:21:01 * sgordon has nothing
14:21:08 * jjmcd needs to get with jsmith-away and work on fattening the presentation
14:21:10 <sgordon> who else is actually coming?
14:21:26 <bcotton> sgordon: there's a list on the wiki page
14:21:29 <sgordon> from the docs group anyway
14:21:34 <sgordon> mkayy
14:21:44 * Sparks will be there
14:22:44 <jjmcd> I see me, sparks, nb, Ruth, I know jsmith-away
14:25:31 <bcotton> annything else?
14:25:51 <bcotton> #topic Docs QA
14:26:00 <bcotton> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2011-September/013736.html
14:26:08 <bcotton> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2011-November/013855.html
14:26:18 <bcotton> Sparks, this is your baby. Anything to add?
14:26:57 <jjmcd> Does the patch process imply a temporary branch?
14:28:14 <Sparks> Not especially
14:28:34 * Sparks thought he had given this up to out-of-the-country man
14:28:39 <sgordon> haha
14:29:17 <bcotton> Sparks: boomerang?
14:29:26 <Sparks> jjmcd: I'm not sure how crazy we want to get with this.
14:29:34 <sgordon> so just to clarify, the idea is that a QA person would have both:
14:29:37 <sgordon> a patch to review
14:29:40 <sgordon> and the output
14:29:47 <Sparks> There were discussions at the last FAD but nothing was agreed to
14:29:50 <sgordon> (under draft in a staging area?
14:29:52 <jjmcd> Well, yeah, but you hate to keep your local repo out of synch with fh.o
14:29:56 <sgordon> yeah
14:30:08 <Sparks> Well, you don't have to commit the patch...
14:30:43 <Sparks> just copy the original to .new, modify .new, create patch, add patch to bug, set to QA
14:31:00 <Sparks> of course that's just a WAG
14:31:42 <Sparks> Speak of the devil
14:32:54 <Sparks> So there needs to be some sort of concensus on what we want to do.
14:33:25 <bcotton> given the difficulties we've seemed to have shipping guides on time the last few releases, i think something small is where we want to start
14:34:03 <bcotton> preferably with as few manual steps as possible
14:34:12 <sgordon> well, one way to start would be trying to do some QA *now* of the existing versions
14:34:16 <sgordon> so we can raise bugs for F17
14:34:40 <sgordon> (because you know, that's what we want, more bugs :P)
14:34:49 <pkovar> so when is our bug party?
14:35:16 <bcotton> pkovar: i need to look at the responses. only 5 have been submitted so far (that's our next agenda item)
14:35:26 <pkovar> cool
14:37:54 <bcotton> QA is something we've rtalked about for a while
14:38:07 <bcotton> how do we come to a consensus and start doing something (or nothing)
14:38:58 <pkovar> i agree with having the party first
14:39:02 <pkovar> then we will see
14:39:29 * pkovar loves partying
14:39:58 <randomuser> if we want more bugs, each online resource could be made with a template that includes a footnote with a link to file a bug against the resource
14:40:28 <bcotton> so we'll solve QA after the bug squashing party? does that sound agreeable?
14:40:33 <Sparks> bcotton: How about if I type up a plan, put it on the wiki, open it up for comments/edits, then someone takes the bold step of saying "we're doing this" or "we're not doing this"
14:40:51 <Sparks> randomuser: They do
14:41:03 <bcotton> Sparks: i'm okay with this
14:41:06 <randomuser> ah
14:41:13 <Sparks> randomuser: It's not a footnote but rather it's in chapter 1 of every guide.
14:41:54 <Sparks> bcotton: Be like jsmith...
14:42:05 <bcotton> Sparks: on the cover of a magazine?
14:42:11 <Sparks> "Be bold, and make decisions..."
14:42:40 <bcotton> #action sparks to draft a QA plan on the wiki for comments
14:42:51 <bcotton> #agreed we'll finally solve the QA question after the bug squashing party
14:42:59 <jsmith> Sparks: :-)
14:43:04 * Sparks thought he was using a hypothetical "I"
14:43:04 <randomuser> Sparks, sure, i've seen that - i was referring to an actual footnote, but sounds like a topic for later
14:43:16 <Sparks> randomuser: A footnote on every page?
14:43:32 <randomuser> why not?
14:43:46 <Sparks> randomuser: It's not very professional looking...
14:44:11 <sgordon> yeah we have tried that internally
14:44:13 <sgordon> it's overkill
14:44:29 <Sparks> randomuser: I mean, I don't see that in other publications.  Kinda gives the impression that we aren't standing behind what we write.
14:45:27 <randomuser> ok, i get that
14:46:13 <bcotton> anything else on QA?
14:47:21 <Sparks> Good golly no
14:47:52 <bcotton> #topic Bug Squashing Party
14:48:01 <bcotton> #link  Party
14:48:08 <bcotton> #undo
14:48:08 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x7fbb5c725dd0>
14:48:14 <bcotton> #link  Party
14:48:20 <bcotton> #undo
14:48:20 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x7fbb65a19dd0>
14:48:23 <bcotton> damn copypasta
14:48:34 <bcotton> #link http://whenisgood.net/hh3b9de
14:48:49 <bcotton> if you've not given your availability yet, please do so at the above link
14:49:06 <bcotton> i'll look through the responses and pick a date this afternoon
14:49:22 <bcotton> #action bcotton to pick a bug squashing party date from the WhenIsGood responses
14:50:06 <bcotton> if you plan on participating, please check to see that you have, at a minimum docs-writers FAS group membership and bugzilla access
14:50:27 <bcotton> if you are lacking, please poke in #fedora-docs or on the list for help
14:51:07 <jsmith> bcotton: I only filled out the whenisgood thing for the next couple of weeks, as I don't know my schedule beyond that
14:51:32 <bcotton> jsmith: that's fine. i hope to do it soonish. (as in perhaps the week after next)
14:52:12 <bcotton> any other comments about the party?
14:52:25 * jsmith is a docs party animal
14:52:38 <sgordon> >:D
14:52:57 <Sparks> jsmith: Yeah you are.
14:53:04 <bcotton> #topic Open floor discussion
14:53:13 <bcotton> #info Happy birthday to lcafiero
14:53:33 <Sparks> +1
14:53:54 <jsmith> +1
14:55:02 <bcotton> do we have any cans o' worms to open today?
14:55:15 <pkovar> yes :-)
14:55:21 * Sparks really likes this floor.  Who's your designer?
14:55:28 <pkovar> re the new Bugzilla component for publishing translations and the docs-publishers FAS group: it's not resolved yet
14:55:39 <bcotton> /kick sparks
14:55:41 <bcotton> :-)
14:55:49 <pkovar> the docs-publishers-members bugzilla account suggested by nb doesn't seem to exist in bugzilla in fact
14:55:59 <pkovar> i contacted nb about this but got no reply
14:56:12 <pkovar> not sure who else to ask, probably will have to file a bug against the bugzilla.redhat.com itself so admins can create the group with the FAS membership for us
14:56:22 <pkovar> can we add this as an action item?
14:56:23 <Sparks> .
14:56:32 <bcotton> pkovar: for you?
14:56:38 <Sparks> You have to add the bz account manually
14:57:18 <sgordon> yeah
14:57:22 <pkovar> nb suggested this is already set up
14:57:29 <Sparks> Just go into BZ and create the account and all should be right with the world.
14:57:32 <sgordon> same as when you want to add a mailing list as a bz responder/assignee
14:57:32 <Sparks> Hmmm..
14:57:36 <Sparks> nb: ^^^
14:57:38 <pkovar> it's not the case apparently :-)
14:57:53 <Sparks> What were you putting in the owners file?
14:58:17 <pkovar> docs-publishers-members@fedoraproject.org IIRC
14:58:50 <pkovar> we need to have the FAS members subscribed to the bugzilla account, so...
14:58:53 <jjmcd> There is a publishing-requests component
14:59:02 <pkovar> i guess that creating the account is not enough
14:59:20 <pkovar> jjmcd: yes, but without the proper assignee
14:59:22 <Sparks> It really should be.
14:59:37 <Sparks> I suspect that it wasn't created in BZ
15:00:53 <pkovar> so if i will create the docs-publishers-members@fedoraproject.org account, it will automagically include all the members of the docs-publishers FAS group?
15:01:15 <pkovar> or am i missing something here? :-)
15:01:16 <Sparks> Yes
15:01:35 <jjmcd> How does the account get linked to the component?
15:01:38 <pkovar> hrmm, will try again then, thanks
15:01:40 <Sparks> You can send a message to all docs people by sending a message to docs@fp.o
15:01:49 <jjmcd> I think someone needs to set the default CC in BZ
15:01:50 <Sparks> jjmcd: In FAS
15:02:06 <pkovar> Sparks: docs@fp.o, not docs-members@fp.o?
15:02:13 <Sparks> Ooooo...
15:02:42 <Sparks> Yeah, I may have that wrong.
15:02:51 <Sparks> docs-members@fp.o
15:03:06 <pkovar> so the correct address is  docs-publishers-members@fedoraproject.org, not  docs-publishers@fedoraproject.org, right?
15:03:30 <pkovar> sounds really simple then
15:03:47 <Sparks> That should be correct but perhaps nirik or someone from -admin could confirm.
15:04:12 * nirik looks up
15:04:24 <pkovar> nirik: thanks :-)
15:04:31 <nirik> whats the question here?
15:04:41 <Sparks> nirik: To send a message to a FAS group...
15:04:45 <jjmcd> how does "docs-publishers-members" get connected to "publishing-requests"?  I think the list exists, it is the BZ-list hookup that is missing
15:04:50 <Sparks> <fasgroup>-members@fp.o?
15:05:00 <nirik> ah, let me look.
15:05:03 <Sparks> jjmcd: In the owners list.
15:05:09 <Sparks> jjmcd: In the owners file.
15:05:24 <jjmcd> So, it should be all happy then
15:05:37 <jjmcd> There are no bugs in that component yet
15:06:39 * Sparks set the bugs in that category to go to docs@lists...  for the interim.
15:06:50 <pkovar> jjmcd: yes, we haven't announced it yet
15:07:18 <nirik> yeah, should be the same way the other stuff is set in bugzilla for docs. ;) So, hopefully you folks can adjust it as needed?
15:07:56 <jjmcd> I believe Nick said the mailing list exists by default, if the hookup is automatic through the owner's list, then mail should come when there is a bug
15:07:57 <pkovar> nirik: so we have to create an account first with the name of the FAS group
15:08:38 * nirik isn't sure. I guess we should run it by nb and/or toshio, as they know about that area more than I.
15:09:10 * pkovar tried to already contact nb but can try again
15:09:26 * Sparks notes we are way over...
15:10:07 <bcotton> sparks is right (although there doesn't seem to be any clamor for the room)
15:10:23 <bcotton> pkovar: do you have sufficient answer to proceed?
15:10:33 <sgordon> technically correct though, the best kind of correct
15:11:22 <pkovar> bcotton: i will try to get in touch with those guys
15:11:39 <pkovar> bcotton: that could an action item
15:11:45 <pkovar> *could be
15:12:21 <bcotton> #action pkovar to contact nb and toshio to connect BZ to docs-publishers FAS group
15:12:37 <pkovar> thanks
15:12:44 <bcotton> okay, since we're running late, if you have anything else, i'll need you to hold it for a week :-)
15:12:52 <bcotton> #endmeeting