16:01:21 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
16:01:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 21 16:01:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:26 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
16:01:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
16:01:27 <jskladan> j_dulaney: hey there
16:01:31 <adamw> #topic roll call
16:01:36 <adamw> alright, who's around?
16:01:38 * tflink is here
16:01:40 * jskladan is ready to rock'n'roll
16:01:45 * red_alert 
16:01:59 * j_dulaney is rocking out to Rammstein
16:02:16 * j_dulaney will probably not be able to hear when it's all said and done
16:02:38 <adamw> hey, lookit that, when i actually manage to announce the meeting, people show up
16:02:39 * brunowolff is for a short while. I have a meeting at work at half past.
16:02:42 <adamw> it's like magic or something
16:02:50 * kparal pops up
16:02:57 * adamw whacks kparal
16:03:04 * j_dulaney plays whack-a-kparal
16:03:19 <j_dulaney> adamw is a wizard
16:03:29 * kparal pops off
16:03:29 <adamw> beat you to it
16:03:45 * j_dulaney whacks adamw
16:03:47 <j_dulaney> I win
16:03:52 <adamw> oh THAT'S how it's going to be?
16:03:53 <adamw> you're fired!
16:04:13 <adamw> alrighty
16:04:14 * pschindl is here
16:04:16 <tflink> how exactly do you fire someone who doesn't work for you?
16:04:27 <adamw> tflink: it's difficult, i admit, but i studied hard
16:04:33 <rbergeron> tflink: LOL
16:04:52 <adamw> i have many methods
16:04:53 <j_dulaney> Well, since I'm fired...
16:05:01 * j_dulaney gets to slack off!
16:05:04 <adamw> i'll probably plant a bottle of jack in his desk drawer and call his boss
16:05:27 <tflink> j_dulaney: is that how it works? Dang, I wish I would have know that, I could have been slacking for a month or two
16:05:41 <adamw> =)
16:05:48 <j_dulaney> LOL
16:05:49 <adamw> #topic previous meeting follow-up
16:06:18 <adamw> nothing really doing here, since last week was a short, quiet meeting
16:06:20 <adamw> no action items
16:06:23 * j_dulaney was halfway between Winston-Salem and Fayetteville during the last meeting
16:06:33 <adamw> and still had a job!
16:07:08 <j_dulaney> Indeed
16:07:14 <adamw> #info no action items from previous meeting on which to follow up
16:07:26 <adamw> #topic FUDCon NA hackfest planning
16:07:34 <adamw> so, I think red_alert has been doing some work on this
16:07:42 <adamw> where are we atm?
16:07:48 <adamw> #chair tflink
16:07:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw tflink
16:07:51 <adamw> #chair j_dulaney
16:07:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney tflink
16:08:13 <red_alert> well, we have room and time reserved
16:08:24 <red_alert> anacodna folks know about it and at least clumens likes the idea :)
16:08:36 <tflink> red_alert: for the Anaconda testing hackfest?
16:08:49 <red_alert> tflink: yes
16:08:57 <adamw> yeah, background is good for those who haven't heard
16:09:14 <adamw> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/anaconda-devel-list/2011-November/msg00055.html
16:10:09 <red_alert> basically we'll sit together for ~4h and talk/do whatever needs to be talked/done. so far we think no strict agenda is needed and everyone will just bring in his topics as necessary
16:10:44 <j_dulaney> #info We have room 3 on Sunday from 0900 to 1400
16:11:37 <adamw> cool
16:11:38 <j_dulaney> Speaking of such, anyone want to room with me?
16:12:06 <adamw> #info plan is to get anaconda and qa teams together to work on testing the new installer UI
16:13:00 <adamw> so, anyone have questions / ideas about the plan?
16:13:04 <red_alert> oh, one important thing clumens mentioned: if things need to be built into the new UI to make it testable that needs to be defined ~now, i.e. FUDCon will be too late
16:13:32 <j_dulaney> AutoQA test hooks?
16:13:38 <adamw> #info if we need things coded into the UI to make it testable we have to say so now
16:14:11 <red_alert> j_dulaney: any kind of hooks, yes :)
16:14:12 <j_dulaney> IE, integrate in ways for AutoQA to test it easily without having to use the screenshot method?
16:14:23 <kparal> we don't use it at all
16:14:34 * j_dulaney is going to have to think on this
16:14:38 <kparal> OTOH I must admit I have not much insight into our current anaconda testing
16:15:04 <tflink> me neither, I don't know the RATS code/tests very well
16:15:09 <adamw> who does?
16:15:15 <adamw> twu?
16:15:21 <kparal> jlaska and clumens afaik
16:15:23 <tflink> hongquing and twu, I think
16:15:53 <tflink> I answered the wrong question - I was thinking "who's working on it now"
16:16:07 <adamw> heh
16:16:10 <kparal> there is a RATS test, the old one. and there are few more anaconda tests which are newer
16:16:14 <adamw> sounds like we maybe need to get all of the above together
16:16:25 <j_dulaney> Indeed
16:16:32 <kparal> the new tests use some framework written by clumens afaik
16:17:30 <kparal> james worked with him on intergration
16:17:40 <kparal> the old RATS test was written by wwoods and jlaska I believe
16:18:05 <adamw> kparal: it sounds like you kind of know what's going on there: can I ask you to try and get an email thread going with the parties concerned, either directly or cc them on an anaconda list thread?
16:18:27 <tflink> what about the installation tests that twu and hongquing are working on? Is that something different?
16:18:35 * kparal look forward to having an action item
16:18:49 <kparal> tflink: I have to say I don't know
16:19:04 <adamw> view it as a wonderful opportunity to find out :)
16:19:10 <adamw> but it sure sounds like we need to get ducks in a row there.
16:19:13 <kparal> honqginq worked on media sanity test, which is a different topic
16:19:31 <tflink> ah, maybe I'm getting the different tests confused
16:19:48 <adamw> #action kparal to try and co-ordinate all involved in writing installer autoqa tests together to determine if we need any hooks in the new anaconda code
16:19:53 <adamw> sound good?
16:20:00 <kparal> yep
16:20:19 <adamw> alrighty
16:20:25 <adamw> any time you're feeling like an action item, you come ask me ;)
16:20:34 <kparal> will do :)
16:20:42 <adamw> #topic Fedora 17 Test Day planning
16:20:46 * j_dulaney wants an action item
16:20:53 <adamw> you can have this one if you want!
16:21:05 <adamw> so i wanted to throw this one open: we need to set up the F17 test day cycle
16:21:30 <adamw> up till f16 jlaska and I mostly handled this, but i'm still buried in todo list and it'd be nice to give someone else a shake at it too
16:21:37 <adamw> new ideas, raptor proofing, etc etc
16:22:17 <j_dulaney> Raptors?
16:22:30 * j_dulaney is more worried about ponies.  They sneak up on you
16:22:39 <adamw> pony vs. raptor!
16:22:40 <tflink> j_dulaney: if someone gets eaten by a raptor, there is enough knowlege around to get the job done
16:22:46 <adamw> ...or a pony.
16:23:00 <tflink> or hit by a bus, choose your poison
16:23:12 <adamw> hit by a bus driven by a pony which is being eaten by a raptor?
16:23:28 <j_dulaney> Odd
16:23:41 <adamw> that'd get you in the papers.
16:23:57 <j_dulaney> Indeed
16:24:04 <j_dulaney> Not in a way I want, though
16:24:06 <adamw> heh
16:24:44 <adamw> so, basically this involves setting up the test day schedule - which is really just a table on the wiki you can copy and paste from the f16 one - then helping people to organize and promote the events
16:24:58 <adamw> you won't actually have to do all the work for every test day yourself, or even show up at all of them, it's more co-ordination
16:25:05 <adamw> so anyone feel like giving that a shot?
16:25:06 * j_dulaney will do it
16:25:29 <j_dulaney> Sounds easy enough, just make sure everything is on a Thursday?
16:26:21 <adamw> ideally keep things on a thursday
16:26:27 <j_dulaney> Indeed
16:26:40 <adamw> but if all the slots are full and someone has a worthwhile idea, you can overflow to other days (usually tuesday)
16:27:00 <adamw> and sometimes we do 'test weeks' when people want to do a series of related events (like X test week, or the i18n/l10n week we had last cycle)
16:27:16 <adamw> i'll help you out as you go, anyways - any questions, just poke me or the list
16:27:20 <adamw> thanks for stepping up!
16:27:33 <adamw> #action j_dulaney to take a shot at co-ordinating F17 test days, thanks!
16:27:41 <red_alert> don't forget that some developers are in different timezones, and so are testers :) just saying
16:27:44 <j_dulaney> Roger that
16:28:47 <adamw> #topic Upcoming QA events
16:28:55 <adamw> so i threw this in the schedule, but i'm not sure we actually have any
16:29:12 <j_dulaney> How's the post-F16 stuff coming?
16:29:34 <adamw> busted!
16:29:53 <adamw> retrospective is the next thing on my todo list
16:29:57 <adamw> so expect that this week sometime
16:30:09 <adamw> #action adamw to get retrospective tickets filed and summary mailed this week
16:30:37 <adamw> the preliminary f17 schedule is up at http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-17/f-17-quality-tasks.html
16:30:47 <rbergeron> feel free to send me any updates :)
16:30:58 <adamw> yeah, we probably will want to change acceptance tests into TCs again
16:30:59 <rbergeron> (which will probably come out of any retrospective stuff)
16:31:02 <j_dulaney> Assuming FESCo accepts it
16:31:09 <rbergeron> j_dulaney: they accepted it
16:31:09 <adamw> but we'll look at that and let you know
16:31:14 <adamw> j_dulaney: heh.
16:31:36 <j_dulaney> Bumping the TCs forward a week did seem to help
16:31:51 <rbergeron> though i don't know if fesco needs to approve calling acceptance tests TCs but....
16:31:56 <adamw> yeah, and i think the reasoning about RATS still helps
16:32:06 <adamw> rbergeron: i think j_dulaney meant 'assuming fesco accepts the f17 schedule in general'
16:32:14 <adamw> s/helps/stands/
16:32:26 <j_dulaney> adamw:  Indeed
16:33:15 <rbergeron> okay. well, they accepted it :)
16:33:35 <adamw> awesome
16:34:10 <adamw> #action adamw to start an ml thread proposing changes to the tc dates for f17 schedule to be sent to rbergeron
16:34:30 <adamw> anything else on upcoming events?
16:34:49 <rbergeron> If anyone is going to FUDCon, please sign up, if you need funding, file your ticket, EOF :)
16:36:30 <adamw> alrighty!
16:36:50 <adamw> #info if you're planning on going to FUDCon please sign up, and if you need funding, file a ticket now
16:37:01 <adamw> now, it's the moment we've all been waiting for...
16:37:04 <adamw> #topic autoqa update
16:37:16 <adamw> #chair kparal
16:37:16 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney kparal tflink
16:37:17 <tflink> adamw: we have?
16:37:20 <adamw> tflink, kparal, what's the news?
16:37:26 <adamw> well *I*'ve been waiting all weekend
16:37:39 <tflink> we're still getting ready to deploy autoqa 0.7.0
16:37:41 <adamw> (with my finger hovering over the 'fired' button)
16:37:58 <tflink> a couple of bugs were found and fixed last week with YOURLS integration and the new logging system
16:38:07 <adamw> cool
16:38:16 <kparal> kudos to tflink
16:38:32 <tflink> we still need to schedule downtime for the AutoQA system and figure out when we're going to push out to production
16:38:49 <kparal> this week probably
16:39:00 <tflink> almost all of the test client HW is still running F14, so we have some upgrades to do
16:39:10 <adamw> question: is there a plan/schedule to get the results mails back up?
16:39:16 <adamw> or are we just waiting for resultsdb now?
16:39:18 <kparal> great question
16:39:26 <tflink> the conversation hasn't come up yet
16:39:34 <tflink> not in detail, anyways
16:39:41 <kparal> I think I proposed some solutions in that thread
16:40:04 <kparal> I'll try to revive that conversation
16:40:12 <tflink> have there been requests for the emails to come back?
16:40:38 <adamw> i haven't had any, i just was reminded when i was catching up on the meeting summaries last week
16:40:54 * j_dulaney got the impression from Infranstructure that they don't want to serve the huge number of emails, for sure
16:42:06 <adamw> j_dulaney: that's the reason it was shut down, yes
16:42:15 <adamw> j_dulaney: so we need some kind of plan to reduce the volume to get them back up again
16:42:34 <tflink> assuming we want to spam a list with all results, anyways
16:42:50 <tflink> but that conversation would best be saved for the lists
16:42:51 * j_dulaney is leaning for resultsdb
16:42:53 <adamw> okay
16:42:56 <j_dulaney> Indeed
16:43:01 <adamw> yeah, i just wanted to highlight it as an 'unresolved issue'
16:43:34 <adamw> #info autoqa 0.7.0 deployment still in planning
16:43:45 <adamw> #info autoqa test client hardware is still running F14, so needs to be upgraded
16:44:11 <adamw> anything there you need help with or is it all under control?
16:44:41 <tflink> I think its all under control
16:45:13 <tflink> we just need to hammer out a time for all the upgrades once we're satisfied with the code
16:45:23 <adamw> okay, great
16:45:29 <adamw> any other news?
16:45:44 <tflink> nothing I can think of for autoqa
16:46:10 <j_dulaney> Nothing here, either
16:46:31 <adamw> okey dokey
16:46:32 <adamw> thanks
16:46:36 <adamw> #topic open floor
16:46:49 <adamw> so, anything I missed? anyone have great ideas to forward the noble Project Colada goal?
16:47:01 <kparal> I want to have a quick chat about current QA priorities
16:47:09 <adamw> #topic open floor - current QA priorities
16:47:12 <adamw> go for it!
16:47:41 <kparal> so basically, I spent the last week reporting tuns of bugs for F16, tflink worked on autoqa and adamw posted a few internal calls for volunteers in different areas
16:47:53 <kparal> so, do we have any priorities regarding all these areas?
16:48:00 <kparal> just curious
16:48:55 <kparal> like do we want to spend much time on improving wiki test cases first, or is autoqa hacking more important now?
16:49:03 * j_dulaney is wanting to hop back on AutoQA
16:49:32 <j_dulaney> I've also kind of been hijacked into doing sysv to systemd init conversions
16:49:33 <adamw> for the public record, i was looking for volunteers for the Test Day thing which is now covered, updating/revising the validation test plans, and checking the F17 feature list for critical things that will need test plans
16:50:16 <adamw> kparal: so the wishy-washy answer is 'they're all important' :)
16:50:28 <tflink> adamw: thanks, that helps a lot
16:50:30 <tflink> :-D
16:50:31 <kparal> :D
16:50:35 <adamw> kparal: autoqa is a kind of ongoing priority which is never an emergency
16:50:54 <adamw> the challenge there is to try and avoid always pulling people off autoqa to firefight whatever the current emergency is
16:51:18 <kparal> I can help with those validation test plans, but I simply don't know whether I should rather work on autoqa or not
16:51:30 <adamw> i think you should probably prioritize autoqa
16:51:40 * j_dulaney can do test plans
16:51:48 <adamw> so the thing there is that autoqa requires more advanced knowledge/skills than just about any other area
16:52:15 <adamw> so the people who have the knowledge/skills to work on autoqa should probably focus on it, because otherwise it just won't get done
16:52:50 <adamw> we should be able to cover all the other tasks between rh staff and community, i think
16:52:52 <kparal> ok, that helps me with my bad conscience that I haven't responded to your call yet
16:53:19 <adamw> j_dulaney: thanks a lot, but if possible i'd like to try and get someone else on it, just to spread the load a little - it's unfair to you to try and carry two major areas
16:53:47 <j_dulaney> I'm about to have A LOT of free time
16:54:25 <j_dulaney> The next two weeks are going to suck, then I'll have a little over a month of free time
16:54:42 <kparal> so from what I got - autoqa is a high priority, no slacking elsewhere, right?
16:55:23 <adamw> kparal: yeah. if we really can't cover everything else we might need to ask you to do some non-autoqa stuff, but it'd be ideal if we could cover things without that.
16:55:52 <kparal> ok
16:56:31 <adamw> j_dulaney: great - if it turns out no-one else steps up to do that then we'll impose it on you :)
16:56:43 <j_dulaney> Indeed
16:56:46 <adamw> so, this topic also ties up with the retrospective somewhat
16:56:57 <j_dulaney> Except that I'm fired (:
16:57:10 <kparal> j_dulaney: more free time to work!
16:57:12 <adamw> we will likely have tickets for all the outstanding tasks once i'm done with the retrospective and we can try and make sure they're all prioritized and assigned at that point
16:57:22 <adamw> kparal: exACTly!
16:59:41 <adamw> #info all outstanding tasks should have trac tickets by the end of the week, which will help with assignation / prioritization
16:59:48 <adamw> does that cover it, kparal?
16:59:59 * nirik has one quick item for open floor.
17:00:03 <kparal> it does for me
17:00:27 <adamw> nirik: okay, do we have time though?
17:00:32 <adamw> is someone else tapping feet for the room?
17:00:55 <tflink> IIRC, the next meeting shifted an hour
17:00:57 <nirik> I just wanted to mention: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2011-November/011151.html (I will probibly be announcing it more widely soon).
17:01:05 <nirik> adamw: fesco moved an hour I think...
17:01:44 <adamw> okay
17:02:07 <nirik> so, if anyone wants to test new trac/scms for fedorahosted, please do.
17:02:08 <nirik> :)
17:02:36 <adamw> #info infrastructure team is calling for testing of a rhel6-based fedorahosted.org , see nirik's link for more details
17:02:39 <adamw> alrighty!
17:02:44 <adamw> #topic open floor
17:02:47 <adamw> anything more?
17:03:33 * j_dulaney has nothing
17:03:54 <adamw> alrighty, setting fuse for 1 minute then
17:05:14 <adamw> thanks folks!
17:05:16 <adamw> #endmeeting