05:04:02 <tagoh> #startmeeting i18n
05:04:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 20 05:04:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is tagoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:04:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:04:06 <tagoh> #meetingname i18n
05:04:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:04:11 <tagoh> #topic agenda and roll call
05:04:19 <tagoh> hi guys, shall we have weekly i18n meeting now
05:04:41 <tagoh> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2011-10-20
05:05:15 <tagoh> please add any topic or bring up at the end if it's missing something else.
05:05:23 <tagoh> who else here today?
05:05:26 <fujiwarat> hi
05:05:30 <dueno> hi
05:05:40 <asa_> hello
05:06:09 <juhp> hi
05:07:04 <epico_laptop> hi
05:07:58 <pravins> hi
05:08:03 <lijli> hi
05:08:42 <tagoh> okay, let's get started.
05:08:51 <tagoh> #topic F16
05:09:27 <tagoh> we'll meet the final change deadline next Monday. we have two blockers and one (proposed) nth bug so far.
05:11:19 <jni> hi
05:11:31 <fujiwarat> ibus-1.4.0-4.fc16 is available now:
05:11:33 <fujiwarat> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/ibus-1.4.0-4.fc16
05:11:40 <tagoh> fortunately we finally got a criterion for translations for blocker. and unfortunately these seems not yet fixed. need to get involved for them.
05:11:51 <paragan> hi
05:12:12 <juhp> fujiwarat, thanks :)
05:12:23 <tagoh> fujiwarat: thanks for quick fix.
05:12:24 <juhp> I already tested it on gnome-shell
05:13:11 <fujiwarat> thx for updating bug reports.
05:13:33 <tagoh> dunno if we are missing anything else, is there anything else bugs you mind? good to share if there are.
05:14:01 <asa_> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=747195 - can be mark duplicate for this
05:14:19 <juhp> asa_, fujiwarat already did I believe
05:14:26 <asa_> ok
05:14:39 <asa_> ya:)
05:14:44 <juhp> :)
05:14:46 <fujiwarat> asa_: thx for the test :).
05:14:53 <asa_> I added karma for updates, let it go stable
05:15:20 * juhp is going to test now in fallback mode
05:15:34 <juhp> asa_, yeah after we have tested carefully
05:15:57 <juhp> this will probably be the final ibus in GA
05:17:32 <tagoh> juhp: thanks
05:19:34 <juhp> btw do we have a bug yet for the duplicate xkb layouts?
05:20:09 <tagoh> .bug 747507
05:20:10 <zodbot> tagoh: Bug 747507 ibus contains duplicate entries for keyboard layouts from m17n and xkb - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=747507
05:20:11 <tagoh> is it?
05:20:15 <juhp> ah
05:20:23 <juhp> thanks
05:20:38 <juhp> I am not clear serious that issue is?
05:20:44 <juhp> * how serious *
05:21:31 <juhp> well reading I guess it could be fixed in a update though would be nice to have
05:21:43 <asa_> juhp: I think major issue is confusion - xkb keyboard layout  entry simple name  as "Gujarati"
05:21:57 <juhp> okay
05:22:06 <tagoh> right
05:22:08 <asa_> nothing about layout name like "Gujarat Inscript"
05:22:24 <juhp> fujiwarat, perhaps we could try to get that fix in too?  how do you think?
05:22:35 <juhp> if the risk is not too high
05:23:08 <fujiwarat> hmm.. but it also exists in f15 originally?
05:23:46 * juhp hasn't seen it yet himself - so has no idea...
05:24:06 <juhp> so it is only for Indic locales?
05:24:50 <juhp> asa_, good to report these kinds of issues as soon as you see them if possible (well earlier is always good)
05:24:54 <asa_> I have not checked yet, need to check for CJK
05:24:56 <tagoh> guess it may happens if lang has multiple IMEs or layout?
05:25:17 <juhp> aha
05:25:23 <juhp> asa_, ?
05:25:34 <juhp> asa_, ah
05:25:40 <asa_> juhp: sorry for delay, surely need to improve timing
05:25:50 <juhp> hmm well if it were CJK - we would have seen it :)
05:26:09 <juhp> asa_, I guess tagoh's answer is probably right
05:26:29 <juhp> asa_, CJK all have only one default IME available
05:26:52 <juhp> asa_, what about f15?
05:27:42 <asa_> juhp: yes, it was exist in f15
05:28:04 <asa_> wonder why not report
05:28:07 <juhp> asa_, no, no - just a general recommendation - final freeze is Mond...
05:28:09 <juhp> ay
05:28:10 <asa_> probably different name
05:28:15 <pravins> juhp: yeah, we should also move in same model, at the most 1 or 2 preferred IME's
05:28:33 <juhp> pravins, okay yes
05:28:44 <pravins> other we can keep optional for installation
05:28:51 <juhp> pravins, yeah
05:29:07 <juhp> rfe would be good
05:29:19 <juhp> against ibus-m17n?
05:29:27 <pravins> yeah, need littlebit survey for it
05:29:31 <pravins> yes
05:29:42 <juhp> ok
05:30:21 <juhp> anyway I feel the xkb behaviour under gnome can still be simplified
05:30:33 <juhp> in ibus I mean
05:30:56 <juhp> I would rather just lock the ibus and gnome xkb layouts together
05:31:22 <juhp> for other desktops maybe ibus can help with layout choice dunno
05:32:27 <fujiwarat> yes, looks good.
05:32:54 <tagoh> let's think about it later. we may need to provide the desktop specific things perhaps.
05:33:07 <juhp> yeah
05:34:21 <tagoh> hm, I did wrong test on gdm perhaps. it seems always running under en_US on Live. and TC1 is broken for installation. waiting for TC2...
05:35:15 <tagoh> anyway, anything else prior to move?
05:35:26 <fujiwarat> asa_: If it exists in f15, maybe I'd like to suggest f16 nth update.
05:36:36 <asa_> it should be ok with f16
05:37:09 <fujiwarat> thx
05:38:28 <juhp> tagoh: you mean blank X screen?
05:38:28 <fujiwarat> prev-next shortcut keys are also nth. We need to decide how keymaps and input-methods are rotated.
05:38:50 <juhp> fujiwarat, yeah but i think it can be in an update
05:38:57 <tagoh> .bug 706756
05:38:59 <zodbot> tagoh: Bug 706756 No translation on Login-Page of the reboot-menu - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=706756
05:39:08 <tagoh> juhp: blocker bug
05:39:31 <juhp> tagoh: I mean "TC1 is broken for installation"
05:39:56 <tagoh> ah, I thought it's related to udev. there should be announcement for that in the list
05:40:00 <juhp> tagoh: you can try "yum reinstall gtk-pixbuf2"
05:40:05 <juhp> hm ok dunno
05:40:25 <juhp> tagoh: anyway current Nightly Live is ok (for me)
05:40:38 <tagoh> Live itself works for me too.
05:40:43 <juhp> instsall
05:40:45 <juhp> install
05:40:59 <tagoh> aha. good
05:41:01 <juhp> so I think it is fixed
05:41:14 <tagoh> okay, shall we move on?
05:41:27 <tagoh> #topic Input Methods
05:41:28 <juhp> so how about the translation issue?
05:42:52 <tagoh> juhp: well, retested gdm. and at least I can see German in the menu on gdm. however from the updated criteria, all of the supported languages may needs to meet with it. so any volunteers to check it would be appreciated.
05:43:04 <juhp> hmm
05:43:13 <juhp> I see
05:43:33 <juhp> okay
05:43:39 <tagoh> it's now just a translation issue anyway and no problem in the software side.
05:43:54 <asa_> tagoh: juhp: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-October/103588.html
05:43:57 <tagoh> not yet checked completely for kpackagekit
05:44:11 <asa_> tagoh: kpackagekit has problem
05:44:14 <asa_> not fixed yet
05:44:28 <tagoh> aha
05:45:24 <tagoh> no mention what popular languages is? ;)
05:45:47 <juhp> heh
05:46:07 <juhp> yeah I think it is kind of impossibly defined :)
05:46:17 <juhp> anyway
05:46:20 <asa_> do we need to create one for i18n and Translation
05:46:44 <asa_> specially i18n issue should have
05:47:40 <tagoh> per languages?
05:48:52 <asa_> languages can be added to group, so easy to make criteria
05:49:00 <juhp> tagoh: so no ja translation for gdm?
05:49:28 <tagoh> juhp: I can see in ja.po. should be there.
05:49:30 <juhp> group?
05:49:34 <juhp> ah ok
05:49:42 <juhp> since you mentioned German - ok
05:50:03 <tagoh> juhp: it was for the original report :)
05:50:13 <juhp> well one for sure - we will never have 100% coverage of translations...
05:50:20 <juhp> tagoh: ah right
05:50:20 <asa_> like if no translation for Indic in gdm, it can be ok, but EMEA or CJK it can be blocker
05:50:28 <asa_> juhp: yes, true
05:50:33 <juhp> asa_, hmm
05:51:01 <juhp> asa_, well i think some core Indic languages could be included - at minimum Hindi...
05:51:16 <juhp> but yeah guess some tierage is needed
05:51:33 <juhp> so would be good to add an explicit list to the criteria
05:52:06 <juhp> ok I see ja now too
05:52:17 <juhp> after system-config-language + reboot....
05:52:36 <juhp> for Live it is a bit harder to test...
05:52:40 <tagoh> that may be good to clarify what particular languages we would covers from the actual achievement in the past or stats on transifex at the translation deadline etc.
05:53:03 <juhp> yeah
05:53:20 <juhp> realistically I feel the criteria is too broad perhaps
05:53:29 <juhp> for fedora
05:54:37 <tagoh> better have measurable point for that. but not mentioning specific languages perhaps.
05:54:58 <tagoh> to avoid flamewar ;)
05:55:07 <juhp> what apps are covered actually?
05:55:12 <juhp> hmm
05:56:26 <tagoh> that says "basic level of translations" so guess anaconda and gdm and desktop without apps or including some major apps like editor, browser and/or office suite maybe?
05:57:57 <tagoh> asa_: thanks for the pointer. will reply on that mail later anyway. maybe good to have wide discussion about it.
05:58:47 <tagoh> okay, so.. back to the topic, any updates or news to share for IM?
05:59:11 <anish_> provide following patches for ibus-indic table
05:59:24 <anish_> Patch7:     bug-684118.patch
05:59:24 <anish_> Patch8:     bug-684118-template.patch
05:59:25 <anish_> Patch9:     bug-684118-inscript.patch
05:59:25 <anish_> Patch10:    bug-684118-capscase.patch
05:59:25 <anish_> Patch11:    bug-743502.patch
05:59:33 <tagoh> anish_: cool
05:59:44 <anish_> tagoh, thanks :)
06:00:22 <pravins> anish_: thanks, i will test and give karma, lets make at least one update stable ;)
06:00:51 <anish_> pravins, thanks for testing it
06:02:48 <tagoh> anything else?
06:02:53 <tagoh> pravins: thanks
06:03:32 <dueno> maybe I'll soon release ibus-panel-extensions and file a review bug
06:03:56 <juhp> dueno, aha
06:04:23 <juhp> dueno, btw did you follow the discussion I had with fujiwarat yesterday?
06:04:40 <dueno> juhp, yeah
06:04:46 <juhp> :)
06:06:43 <dueno> frankly I think OSK / charmap in the IME menu might be superfluous, but anyway :)
06:07:43 <juhp> dueno, yeah maybe
06:08:04 <juhp> dueno, but if we have separate IME indicator it might make sense perhaps still
06:08:26 <juhp> though I didn't read the latest comments yet
06:08:31 <juhp> in the gnome bug I mean
06:08:41 <juhp> anyway
06:09:23 <juhp> hmm "yum install @kde-desktop" is a 400M download :-/
06:09:58 <tagoh> juhp: maybe easy to use Live as base and update the packages?
06:10:08 <juhp> yeah
06:10:22 <juhp> just want to try ibus there too
06:10:55 <tagoh> well, no ibus in kde live btw as I said before. need to install it manually
06:10:59 <tagoh> but anyway
06:11:01 <juhp> dueno, what does ibus-panel-extensions do?
06:11:20 <juhp> tagoh: ok I'm yum installing anyway :)
06:11:51 <tagoh> sure
06:12:06 <dueno> juhp, that provides additional UI services usable from engines http://blog.du-a.org/?p=909
06:12:21 <juhp> dueno, aha cool
06:14:57 <juhp> dueno, so if no langbar it would appear in ibus icon menu?
06:15:17 <juhp> or is it separate?
06:15:49 <dueno> it will appear in the menu
06:15:53 <juhp> ok
06:16:00 <juhp> looks really nice
06:16:52 <tagoh> okay, anything else?
06:17:30 <tagoh> better move on
06:17:36 <tagoh> #topic Fonts and Rendering
06:17:59 <tagoh> nice to have quick updates since we are running over the time on the meeting now.
06:20:04 <tagoh> started to work on a small tool to generate fontconfig config file from the font. it may not covers all of rules in existence. but for simple one, I'd like to replace the static file with it in f17 if possible.
06:20:20 <juhp> aha
06:20:42 <juhp> does it also relate to the fonts-tweak-tool feature perhaps? :)
06:20:59 <juhp> ah not directly I guess
06:21:01 <tagoh> the advantage with it is easy to update the config file with the rebuild if we have the change.
06:21:13 <juhp> aha
06:22:30 <pravins> tagoh: nice, it will surely help.
06:22:51 <jni> juhp, maybe i can call tagoh's tool? or that tool has some api?
06:23:55 <juhp> jni, dunno - sorry I think I jumped to conclusions - I guess it is a cli tool to help with fonts package maintainence
06:23:58 <tagoh> jni: I so far think of generating at the build time. ideally integrate it with fontpackages' macro. so no one needs to update their spec basically..
06:24:50 <jni> tagoh, ok
06:24:57 <jni> juhp, thanks
06:25:01 <tagoh> and not that big deal.
06:25:34 <tagoh> just a small commandline tool
06:25:45 <juhp> anyway sounds useful
06:25:45 <tagoh> anyway
06:26:46 <tagoh> jni: font-tweak-tool might invoke it at the background to get the certain config perhaps. dunno
06:27:11 <tagoh> anyway, anything eles updates prior to close the meeting?
06:29:39 <pravins> tagoh: resolved .bug 657849
06:30:06 <tagoh> pravins: cool
06:32:32 <tagoh> okay, let's stop here then. thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:32:38 <pravins> thanks tagoh
06:32:43 <dueno> thanks
06:32:54 <tagoh> #endmeeting