18:00:38 <nirik> #startmeeting proventesters (2011-10-12)
18:00:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 12 18:00:38 2011 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:39 <nirik> #meetingname proventesters
18:00:39 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'proventesters'
18:00:44 <nirik> Hey folks.
18:00:51 <nirik> Any proventesters around wanting to meet up?
18:01:10 * athmane is around
18:01:28 * Cerlyn is here
18:02:16 * Southern_Gentlem 
18:02:23 * jsmith lurks
18:03:00 * tomspur is here
18:03:35 <nirik> cool. Better turn out than last week. ;)
18:04:19 <nirik> #topic Gather topics
18:04:26 <nirik> Any folks have topics for today?
18:04:35 <nirik> We had a request about the bodhi testing reports...
18:04:48 <nirik> I'd like to try and brainstorm recruitment more
18:05:02 <nirik> and talk about a page to collect resources.
18:05:34 * tomspur likes to talk about promoting testing in general to users
18:05:59 <tomspur> I always wanted to look more at fedora-community and how to add some nice reports there
18:06:19 <nirik> cool. Good idea.
18:06:25 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and dive in...
18:06:33 <nirik> #topic Updates-testing reports
18:06:34 <tomspur> generating plots and reports and promoting $best_tester_in_the_world could make a bit push in any direction
18:06:54 <nirik> recently bodhi changed to list all pending security/critpath updates by number only...
18:07:02 <nirik> seems that pretty much everyone hates this in the reports.
18:07:07 <nirik> lmacken: you happen to be around?
18:07:44 <nirik> I think we should push for that to get reverted...
18:08:05 <nirik> Any other thoughts on that?
18:08:44 <Southern_Gentlem> yes we need updates by name and release
18:09:05 <nirik> yeah, the numbers make it much more difficult for people to see an update they are interested in.
18:09:16 <nirik> #topic Recruitment Brainstorming
18:09:33 <nirik> tomspur: have you had a chance to talk to fedora-community folks ?
18:09:41 <nirik> I think it could be a nice tool for some testers...
18:09:50 <tomspur> no, I just wanted to talk about it here first
18:10:25 <tomspur> (and look at the code how difficult it would be to implement it ;) )
18:10:37 <nirik> yeah, not sure on implementation...
18:10:51 <nirik> but I think it could be good for helping people see things and get info.
18:10:56 * athmane wonders if fedora ambassadors can help with getting more tester
18:10:58 <nirik> we do have some reports in bodhi
18:11:15 <tomspur> I'd love to see any reports in community and not bodhi
18:11:19 <nirik> athmane: oh... good idea. Perhaps. How do you think we could approach that.
18:11:23 <tomspur> then it would be one place to meet
18:12:00 <nirik> tomspur: yeah. community already pulls data from bodhi I am pretty sure.
18:12:35 <tomspur> I think the bad thing on enabling updates-testing by default is, that the system could stop to boot - when there would be an extra repository for non-critpath packages, it *could* be more likely to be enabled by default
18:13:11 <tomspur> when I have not much time, I only update some packages from updates-testing and test those instead of updating glibc and hope it still works
18:13:29 <nirik> I run with updates-testing here...
18:13:41 <nirik> seldom are there problems that cause booting to fail...
18:13:44 <nirik> but it can happen.
18:14:26 * tomspur likes to be prepared first
18:15:37 <nirik> athmane: would you be willing to approach ambassadors on their list about increasing testers?
18:15:47 <nirik> tomspur: would you like to investigate community more?
18:15:54 <nirik> any other ideas for recruitment?
18:16:13 <tomspur> nirik, yes, definitely
18:16:20 <nirik> thanks!
18:16:33 <nirik> #action tomspur will look into adding more testing related content to fedora community
18:18:04 <athmane> nirik: sure, I need to look how ambassadors stuff work (I'm not familiar with the process)
18:18:35 <nirik> athmane: thanks
18:18:50 <athmane> if ambassadors can get more contributor they can get more tester
18:18:53 <nirik> #action athmane will approach ambassadors about increasing testers.
18:18:59 <tomspur> nirik, do you know, who is part of the community folks? the ML seems dead
18:19:09 <nirik> I was thinking we could possibly do a #fedora-classroom on testing / proventesters
18:19:23 <nirik> tomspur: I'd try and get a hold of lmacken or J5 on that
18:19:32 <tomspur> thanks
18:20:04 <tomspur> is there a need for a classroom? (don't know what could users prevent of testing)
18:20:09 <nirik> would anyone be interested in running a class on tester resources and processes?
18:20:23 <nirik> mostly I think people just don't know they can or how to get started.
18:21:05 * tomspur can be there to help answering questions, but don't want to run the "class"
18:21:23 <nirik> I can try and do one... not sure how much time I have, but should be pretty easy to do.
18:21:34 <nirik> #action nirik to look at doing a #fedora-classroom class about testing.
18:22:24 <athmane> maybe teaching how to use f-e-k
18:22:37 <tomspur> right...
18:22:54 <tomspur> is there a possibility to see what packages are from updates-testing in a gui way?
18:23:04 <nirik> not that I know of. ;(
18:23:16 <nirik> PackageKit or yumex might have some way?
18:23:46 <tomspur> if not it would be a good featurerequest in packagekit
18:24:08 <tomspur> maybe a tab with "are you satisfied with update XXX" or something like that
18:24:32 <tomspur> then it's more likely to get random feedback
18:24:32 <nirik> yeah, we have wanted to have that kind of thing for a long time...
18:24:40 <nirik> but it's not high on the list for PK folks.
18:24:45 <tomspur> :(
18:27:08 <nirik> #topic resources page
18:28:29 <nirik> so, I'd like to look at a one stop page to have testing resources.
18:28:42 <nirik> perhaps I can just add this to our proventester page? or make it seperate
18:29:01 <nirik> includes: fedora-easy-karma, bodhi commands, bodhi rss feeds, updates policy links, etc
18:29:21 <tflink> it might be better as a separate page, the current proventesters page is pretty long as it is
18:30:14 <tomspur> hmm, there is "tester" missing on https://fedoraproject.org/join-fedora
18:30:28 <nirik> tflink: yeah.
18:30:30 <tflink> tomspur: I think it's grouped in with development
18:30:40 <nirik> #action nirik to try and make a resource page, help welcome
18:31:05 <tomspur> tflink, I don't suppose tester need to "Communicate through code"
18:31:42 <tflink> tomspur: depends on how you look at testing, I suppose. glass/black box
18:31:52 <tomspur> yes...
18:32:12 <tflink> but I agree that most of the testing done doesn't require code
18:32:14 <tomspur> for the updates I wish to have karma, black box is totally ok
18:32:33 <tflink> yep, agreed
18:33:31 <nirik> so, should we look at changing the joining setup to have testers more promonent?
18:34:16 <tflink> yeah, that might help
18:34:28 * tflink wonders how often that page is viewed
18:34:29 <nirik> does someone want to try and work on that?
18:35:37 * tflink can ask websites about it
18:35:38 <nirik> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/awstats/fedoraproject.org/awstats.fedoraproject.org.urldetail.html
18:36:36 <tomspur> wow
18:36:53 <tomspur> 34000 in 12 days??
18:37:21 <tomspur> an no... 6000, but still impressive
18:37:33 <nirik> yeah.
18:38:13 <nirik> #action tflink to ping websites about changing how tester is setup in join-fedora
18:38:20 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
18:38:27 <nirik> Any other general items?
18:40:35 * nirik listens to crickets
18:40:50 <nirik> do we want to try and look at some updates that are lingering and help them along?
18:41:05 <nirik> tflink: did you have your 'old critpath updates' list around somewhere?
18:41:47 <tflink> I haven't updated it recently, though. something broke in python-bugzilla and I forgot to check back on it
18:41:55 <nirik> ah, bummer.
18:43:05 <nirik> ok, I guess lets close out then?
18:43:14 <nirik> should we meet next week? or are the meetings not doing much?
18:43:16 * tflink will get that updated today if he can
18:43:43 <tflink> do we want to start going over old updates here?
18:44:25 <nirik> I'd be fine with doing that...
18:45:28 <tflink> my script is working again, I'm uploading new lists now
18:46:17 <nirik> nice
18:46:19 <tflink> updated
18:46:24 <tflink> http://tflink.fedorapeople.org/testing_stats/
18:46:29 <tflink> still ugly, though
18:47:12 * nirik clicks
18:47:19 <tomspur> tflink, why? looks just fine
18:47:30 <nirik> so, the top two f14 ones... I don't have hardware. ;(
18:47:39 <nirik> nouveau and openchrome
18:47:54 <tflink> IIRC, there are some updates in here that were obsoleted and never pushed to stable
18:48:07 <tomspur> top f15 libfprint is staled too -.-
18:48:30 <nirik> tflink: oh, if you can find them I can unpush them.
18:49:17 <tflink> I think that most of them were for F16
18:50:00 <tflink> but I'll have to look again, I'm not very confidant of my memory on this
18:50:01 <nirik> I think there was a bodhi bug causing some of that
18:50:33 <tomspur> nirik, udev-173-2.fc16
18:50:59 <tflink> tomspur: you beat me to it :)
18:51:23 * tomspur had just luck to pick the right one :D
18:51:42 * nirik finds it
18:52:26 <tflink> aren't the F15 updates for wacom and x11-drv-qxl used in libvirt/KVM?
18:52:33 <nirik> yes.
18:53:21 * nirik has unpushed that udev update
18:54:16 <nirik> f14 policycoreutils should be not to hard to test, no?
18:55:55 <tflink> I'll put mash testing on my list
18:56:13 <tflink> we use it all the time for autoqa, won't be hard to just update the test client
18:56:37 <nirik> oh nice. I didn't think anyone but releng used it.
18:56:55 * tomspur has no openchrome hw, but thinks about providing the proventester karma...
18:57:31 <tomspur> it has one tester, and still needs one karma to be stabled (or a click by the maintainer)
18:57:45 <nirik> yeah, it's been lingering forever.
18:57:54 <nirik> we were going to try and change critpath there so it wasn't in it.
18:58:01 <nirik> but not sure that helps this update
18:58:17 <Cerlyn> I'll will take care of openchrome on F14 in a second; will have to ask someone for custom builds to test F15 & 16 if we have time
18:59:04 <nirik> Cerlyn: awesome
18:59:09 <tomspur> Cerlyn, nice
18:59:26 <tomspur> I'll wait with my karma then
18:59:52 <Cerlyn> (The chipset is used in XO-1.5's, but we use a different open source driver)
18:59:54 <tflink> Cerlyn: isn't there an update waiting for openchrome on f16?
19:00:06 * nirik has a XO1 somewhere.
19:00:14 <tomspur> tflink, https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2011-12556
19:00:17 <Cerlyn> XO-1 would be via based
19:00:46 * tflink has a XOPC, thinks its geode based
19:01:35 <Cerlyn> you're right it does use a geode for video
19:01:57 <nirik> anyhow, we are running over on time now. ;)
19:02:05 <nirik> shall we move over to #fedora-qa now?
19:02:05 <athmane> nirik: ambassadors list is private, any idea how to contact them ?
19:02:12 * jsmith has an ARM XO-1.75 :-)
19:02:13 <athmane> yes
19:02:21 <nirik> athmane: odd. There is a #fedora-ambassadors channel I think
19:02:31 <Affix> nirik: there is the ambassador channel
19:02:39 <nirik> yeah, try asking there?
19:02:46 <Cerlyn> jsmith: I bet I have more than you :)
19:02:53 * nirik will close out the meeting in a minute if nothing more...
19:03:42 <nirik> #endmeeting